The Official Anime & Manga Thread Vol: 三

[tdogg2k]

but you guys are all saying 1st, madara blah blah blah over assumption.

i mean hell with a jutsu like the edo tensei wasn't anyone talking about the 2nd. maybe he was on some Yama (from bleach) stuff and could bring back the dead during battle to fight.

or could be like any General is stronger than the leader but just doesn't want to lead.


Kishi can come up with strong ninjasout his butt any time he wants... what we know and saw was the 3rd take care of 2 hokages and oro.
and yes we did see madara take care of 5 kages, but this is a madara with UNLIMITED CHAKRA and can never die.

 

[lexlieno]

what is this fatal blow you are talking about? him slapping a paper bomb on their ***? 1st and 2nd fighting in their prime to die to a paper bomb? cmon son...
a ninja finding someone in the darkness aint that some ****
you really think if it was a real fight the first and second would just stand there and throw a few punches while hes blind under genjutsu? you think they wouldnt just shove a forest straight up his *** or even better kill him with a paper bomb?
would it be different if he was in his prime? same arsenal but a little stronger that wont cut it bruh all he did was shoot some fire and mud cmon son..

scenarios that did happen 3rd basically got killed by his teachers while his student was laughing at him only reason he didnt die instantly is because oro wanted to watch him suffer
all you have is he handled 1st 2nd and oro which he sure as hell didnt and him being called a god when well the first was just called a god with the 3rd chillin right there


as for onoki

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

and madara could do that stuff when he was alive you think he made all those jutsus up on the spot? they only showed him for a little before he died

To those lurking and watching this debate, do you understand where I'm coming from when I say their only defense is "if's" and " I think"? Lol the guy began his rant with "you really THINK IF...." we saw what we saw. The first nor second didn't even notice the seals have been placed. You realize your argument right now is...yeah the got their leg and half their body blown off in combat, but do you think that would kill somebody?!?! C'mon son, it kills me how it's stated in the manga that he was the strongest kage at the time of his death. That was fact. Idk what you were watching, the third was putting in work. Nothing phased him but old age. He handled the wood jutsus. It's crazy how yesterday you're saying how he couldn't even escape a genjutsu, now it's how hard is it to find someone in the dark. Y'all slay me with this nonsense.

 

[thedeek]

It's like he's never heard of a RETCON before

 

[lexlieno]

That's you're opinion. People were saying Obito was retconned. All I'm saying is this, stop adding how come the 1st or 2nd didn't do this or that, and where's your defense?  Y'all out here saying slanderous things....You realize that if Oonoki is stronger than the 3rd....you're telling me he could take out Oro, and the Edo'd 1st and 2nd??!?! Really?!?!?  Y'all realize this man was trained by the 1st and 2nd.  It's only natural for him to be able to counter all of their attacks and know their weaknesses and vice versa.  In the end, the shell of the 3rd neutralized the shell of the 1st & 2nd and oro in his prime. And please, if you're going to reply...don't say how come they didn't do this or that....we're past that.  Talk about what happened, not what "could" have happened.

 

[lexlieno]

1 he was getting murked and struggled the whole fight
2 he couldnt eem handle genjutsu


you are over hyping the 3rd like if he could handle them he couldnt handle it at all he was just doing everything he could to stall his inevitable death i guess its pretty good but good enough to say hes strongest nope
id say even onoki would clap the 3rd

and im pretty sure oro said the 1st and 2nd werent at their strongest or something like that

what is this fatal blow you are talking about? him slapping a paper bomb on their ***? 1st and 2nd fighting in their prime to die to a paper bomb? cmon son...
a ninja finding someone in the darkness aint that some ****

you really think if it was a real fight the first and second would just stand there and throw a few punches while hes blind under genjutsu? you think they wouldnt just shove a forest straight up his *** or even better kill him with a paper bomb?
would it be different if he was in his prime? same arsenal but a little stronger that wont cut it bruh all he did was shoot some fire and mud cmon son..

scenarios that did happen 3rd basically got killed by his teachers while his student was laughing at him only reason he didnt die instantly is because oro wanted to watch him suffer
all you have is he handled 1st 2nd and oro which he sure as hell didnt and him being called a god when well the first was just called a god with the 3rd chillin right there


as for onoki

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

and madara could do that stuff when he was alive you think he made all those jutsus up on the spot? they only showed him for a little before he died

scenarios that did happen 3rd basically got killed by his teachers while his student was laughing at him only reason he didnt die instantly is because oro wanted to watch him suffer"

On another note...Nako, blake....do you agree with this statement? Do you both think this is how it went down? If not elaborate on the fight.  Because I don't believe that Wilt/Jordan comparison is relevant due to them never playing one on one on equal footing.  Minus the fact that they were immortal....All of them were shells of themselves...the 3rd just got the better of them both.

 

[blakep267]

1 he was getting murked and struggled the whole fight

2 he couldnt eem handle genjutsu



you are over hyping the 3rd like if he could handle them he couldnt handle it at all he was just doing everything he could to stall his inevitable death i guess its pretty good but good enough to say hes strongest nope

id say even onoki would clap the 3rd


and im pretty sure oro said the 1st and 2nd werent at their strongest or something like that

what is this fatal blow you are talking about? him slapping a paper bomb on their ***? 1st and 2nd fighting in their prime to die to a paper bomb? cmon son...

a ninja finding someone in the darkness aint that some ****

you really think if it was a real fight the first and second would just stand there and throw a few punches while hes blind under genjutsu? you think they wouldnt just shove a forest straight up his *** or even better kill him with a paper bomb?

would it be different if he was in his prime? same arsenal but a little stronger that wont cut it bruh all he did was shoot some fire and mud cmon son..


scenarios that did happen 3rd basically got killed by his teachers while his student was laughing at him only reason he didnt die instantly is because oro wanted to watch him suffer

all you have is he handled 1st 2nd and oro which he sure as hell didnt and him being called a god when well the first was just called a god with the 3rd chillin right there



as for onoki

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

and madara could do that stuff when he was alive you think he made all those jutsus up on the spot? they only showed him for a little before he died

This is what I'm talking about.  If we're going to have a debate, lets be reasonable.  This guy here brings up two points, I counter with things THAT HAPPENED.  He downplays them with his opinions.  You see how quickly it goes from "he can't eem handle genjutsu" to him downplaying the 3rd sensing them through the genjutsu??  If you go back through the pages you'll see both tags were fatal blows, however their zombies.  I'll even give you the fact that it's "said" the 1st could heal himself asap.  I'll GIVE YOU THAT.  We've NEVER seen it, but i'll give you that.  The second on the other hand.....
 
On another note...Nako, blake....do you agree with this statement? 

scenarios that did happen 3rd basically got killed by his teachers while his student was laughing at him only reason he didnt die instantly is because oro wanted to watch him suffer"





On another note...Nako, blake....do you agree with this statement? Do you both think this is how it went down? If not elaborate on the fight.  Because I don't believe that Wilt/Jordan comparison is relevant due to them never playing one on one on equal footing.  Minus the fact that they were immortal....All of them were shells of themselves...the 3rd just got the better of them both.

the thing is, we see this battle fundamentally different. Oro had no intention of flat out killing Sarutobi from the jump. he toyed with him. The third realized as soon as the battle started that he was going to have to use shiki fuujin and he played defense most of the battle( save for the katon he launched that got smacked away). You use the explosive tags as some sort of point. this just in, they are edos. thats nothing to them. madara even let himself get hit by a meteor and various different attacks because he knew he would regenerate. Hiruzen didnt handle anybody. he saw that he was going to lose in the long run and sealed both the kages. Defeating them imo, would be doing that without having to sacrifice his self and beat Oro. That is a win. What he did was basically stalemate Oro, but in the grand scheme of things Oro is alive right now and Hiruzen is his edo golem.

And stop with this 3 v 1 stuff. Hiruzen probably couldnt handle the 1st on his own if he did any of the things we know him to be capable of. Its well within the realm of reason and no "what ifs/opinions" to assume that with what we know now about hashirama, he wouldve stomped an old hiruzen. Hiruzen has no defense against hashi's poison flowers.

Once again, it was retconned. Very few authors of the comic genre dont change something in the future that helps move the plot along. The sharingan originally came from the bakugan. But plot demanded that it be changed further down the line. At the time, hyping hiruzen up was the main goal of kishi. But years later, plot demanded that Hashirama be the big dog as a way to hype madara and make his cels that much important

 

[lexlieno]

the thing is, we see this battle fundamentally different. Oro had no intention of flat out killing Sarutobi from the jump. he toyed with him. The third realized as soon as the battle started that he was going to have to use shiki fuujin and he played defense most of the battle( save for the katon he launched that got smacked away). You use the explosive tags as some sort of point. this just in, they are edos. thats nothing to them. madara even let himself get hit by a meteor and various different attacks because he knew he would regenerate. Hiruzen didnt handle anybody. he saw that he was going to lose in the long run and sealed both the kages. Defeating them imo, would be doing that without having to sacrifice his self and beat Oro. That is a win. What he did was basically stalemate Oro, but in the grand scheme of things Oro is alive right now and Hiruzen is his edo golem.

And stop with this 3 v 1 stuff. Hiruzen probably couldnt handle the 1st on his own if he did any of the things we know him to be capable of. Its well within the realm of reason and no "what ifs/opinions" to assume that with what we know now about hashirama, he wouldve stomped an old hiruzen. Hiruzen has no defense against hashi's poison flowers.

Once again, it was retconned. Very few authors of the comic genre dont change something in the future that helps move the plot along. The sharingan originally came from the bakugan. But plot demanded that it be changed further down the line. At the time, hyping hiruzen up was the main goal of kishi. But years later, plot demanded that Hashirama be the big dog as a way to hype madara and make his cels that much important

I use the term neutralize, which is what he did to all 3.  How many times has Oro died throughout the manga?  That's your opinion that he couldn't handle his teacher on his own, and how could you say it's well within the realm of reason when we don't even know what the 3rd is capable of?  How do you know that he has no defense against poison flowers?  Did it state that in the manga? Or is that your OPINION?!?  It's been shown that certain characters are immune to certain poisons in the manga.  This goes back to what I'm saying, you all are just throwing opinions out there.  We have no knowledge of any of the jutsus the 3rd can do.  We just know that he knows all of the jutsus in konoha and that he's a genius. So it's beyond me as to how you can say one person is better than the other when you know nothing about his abilities.  At least I'm basing my claims of something that's happened, and what happened is the 3rd neutralized all 3....

 

[blakep267]

the thing is, we see this battle fundamentally different. Oro had no intention of flat out killing Sarutobi from the jump. he toyed with him. The third realized as soon as the battle started that he was going to have to use shiki fuujin and he played defense most of the battle( save for the katon he launched that got smacked away). You use the explosive tags as some sort of point. this just in, they are edos. thats nothing to them. madara even let himself get hit by a meteor and various different attacks because he knew he would regenerate. Hiruzen didnt handle anybody. he saw that he was going to lose in the long run and sealed both the kages. Defeating them imo, would be doing that without having to sacrifice his self and beat Oro. That is a win. What he did was basically stalemate Oro, but in the grand scheme of things Oro is alive right now and Hiruzen is his edo golem.


And stop with this 3 v 1 stuff. Hiruzen probably couldnt handle the 1st on his own if he did any of the things we know him to be capable of. Its well within the realm of reason and no "what ifs/opinions" to assume that with what we know now about hashirama, he wouldve stomped an old hiruzen. Hiruzen has no defense against hashi's poison flowers.


Once again, it was retconned. Very few authors of the comic genre dont change something in the future that helps move the plot along. The sharingan originally came from the bakugan. But plot demanded that it be changed further down the line. At the time, hyping hiruzen up was the main goal of kishi. But years later, plot demanded that Hashirama be the big dog as a way to hype madara and make his cels that much important

I use the term neutralize, which is what he did to all 3.  How many times has Oro died throughout the manga?  That's your opinion that he couldn't handle his teacher on his own, and how could you say it's well within the realm of reason when we don't even know what the 3rd is capable of?  How do you know that he has no defense against poison flowers?  Did it state that in the manga? Or is that your OPINION?!?  It's been shown that certain characters are immune to certain poisons in the manga.  This goes back to what I'm saying, you all are just throwing opinions out there.  We have no knowledge of any of the jutsus the 3rd can do.  We just know that he knows all of the jutsus in konoha and that he's a genius. So it's beyond me as to how you can say one person is better than the other when you know nothing about his abilities.  At least I'm basing my claims of something that's happened, and what happened is the 3rd neutralized all 3....

your logic is flawed. With your thinking, we can never declare a ninja to be stronger than another unless it is expressly stated in the manga. So Konohamaru is stronger than naruto because we dont know what hes capable of. He could have a contra cheat code that allows him to beat any ninja

 

[lexlieno]

your logic is flawed. With your thinking, we can never declare a ninja to be stronger than another unless it is expressly stated in the manga. So Konohamaru is stronger than naruto because we dont know what hes capable of. He could have a contra cheat code that allows him to beat any ninja

Flawed how? If you think konohamaru can beat naruto, that's on you. All I'm saying is we saw what we saw, and in the case of the 3rd vs the 1st. We just don't know enough info to declare who's stronger. Yes Madara stated hashi can do some incredible feats, it's also stated that Hiruzen can do some incredible feats as well. What those feats are? We aren't sure. We just know he knows every technique, has massive chakra reserves, and he's a genius. Its nothing but speculation outside of who's stronger than who so this whole topic is truly irrelevant until they go in more with the story. However, what we do know is that hirzuren DID neutralize both the 1st, 2nd, and oro at the same damn time. That DID happen and that's a fact. No what ifs. It happened. I don't know when the 2nd ninja war ended. However it's safe to say that under hiruzens rule....no wars were started. Minato was already the hokage when the 3rd ninja war was in session. I wonder why???

 

[foshizzles]

If all of them are in their prime, I'd still go with 1st >>>
I will choose to let the series determine the strongest after all else is said and done though.

 

[Gill Baka Esq. LLC.]

why they making the first look so damn goofy?

anyways....TenTen would ninja scroll these hokages up...

 

[2sappy]

why they making the first look so damn goofy?

I think it's to make him have a similar personality to Naruto so they would have something in common aside from the 9-tails and whatever Tsunade has said about them.

 

[reener]

1st can control the tailed beast though. That right there is

 

[lexlieno]

I think it's to make him have a similar personality to Naruto so they would have something in common aside from the 9-tails and whatever Tsunade has said about them.

Agreed. Outside of the 2nd, it looks like all the Konoha kages have been pretty easy going...now I wonder if he taught the 3rd how to be a perv.

 

[heatpinoyboy]

Why is the 4th left out of this debate? I feel like dude should be recognized as a real contender...

 

[lexlieno]

Why is the 4th left out of this debate? I feel like dude should be recognized as a real contender...

He's in the same boat as itachi. Died too soon to be recognized.

 

[nako xl]

I thought Hiruzen was Hokage when the third war started, then Minato took over and died, then back to Hiruzen.

Kakashi Gaiden took place during the third war.  Minato wasn't Hokage yet.

 

[lexlieno]

Youre

I thought Hiruzen was Hokage when the third war started, then Minato took over and died, then back to Hiruzen.

Kakashi Gaiden took place during the third war.  Minato wasn't Hokage yet.
[/quote

You're absolutely right. Idk I was thinking Minato was. I remember the bee flashback.

 

[ssjjfar]

Flawed how? If you think konohamaru can beat naruto, that's on you. All I'm saying is we saw what we saw, and in the case of the 3rd vs the 1st. We just don't know enough info to declare who's stronger. Yes Madara stated hashi can do some incredible feats, it's also stated that Hiruzen can do some incredible feats as well. What those feats are? We aren't sure. We just know he knows every technique, has massive chakra reserves, and he's a genius. Its nothing but speculation outside of who's stronger than who so this whole topic is truly irrelevant until they go in more with the story. However, what we do know is that hirzuren DID neutralize both the 1st, 2nd, and oro at the same damn time. That DID happen and that's a fact. No what ifs. It happened. I don't know when the 2nd ninja war ended. However it's safe to say that under hiruzens rule....no wars were started. Minato was already the hokage when the 3rd ninja war was in session. I wonder why???

Beyond your facts being wrong there at the end, how would "no wars started" have anything to do with how strong a hokage he is, unless he is the one starting the wars. Konoha was invade and half way destroyed during hiruzens rule. Also 1st and 2nd were under oroichimarus control, but I do believe the abilities they had were limited while in the fully controlled state ori had them in.


Also on a seperate note, they never said or didn't say, but back during konaha invasion, that last coffin that Orichimaru was trying to revive, was it or wasn't it the fourth? People believed it was at first it was, then it was later revealed that it wasn't possible(at the time) because of him being sealed away after the fight with kyuubi.

 

[nako xl]

^ it couldn't have been the 4th.  The anime had the #4 on the coffin to say it was him (but that wasn't canon.)  In the manga we know it couldn't have been him because his sole was entirely sealed at the time.

we don't know who it was, though considering kabuto resurrected him (and learned everything he knew from oro) it can be safely assumed considering who the first two edos were that it was probably madara.

in which case lulz would have been had if he could overcome oro's mindcontrol tag and decided to break free.

 

[lexlieno]

Beyond your facts being wrong there at the end, how would "no wars started" have anything to do with how strong a hokage he is, unless he is the one starting the wars. Konoha was invade and half way destroyed during hiruzens rule. Also 1st and 2nd were under oroichimarus control, but I do believe the abilities they had were limited while in the fully controlled state ori had them in.


Also on a seperate note, they never said or didn't say, but back during konaha invasion, that last coffin that Orichimaru was trying to revive, was it or wasn't it the fourth? People believed it was at first it was, then it was later revealed that it wasn't possible(at the time) because of him being sealed away after the fight with kyuubi.

I clearly said in the post just above yours that a war was started. Clearly the 3rd was at a disadvantage aswell due to age. They all were shells of themselves we get that. In the end the 3rd neutralized them all. That's the point.

 

[tdogg2k]

@ssjj. you also said " I do believe" you DONT KNOW...none of us do.
the thing is you cant even down play the fight because it was 4 kage level guys fighting in a bubble, which high level jutsus were displayed.
and what we saw was the 3rd. stop 3 people period. did he whoop them no. but did he stop thwm for whooping him and destroying konoha. yes..

 

[heatpinoyboy]

Why is the 4th left out of this debate? I feel like dude should be recognized as a real contender...

He's in the same boat as itachi. Died too soon to be recognized.

Lol you're right, made me realize what a shame too

 

[lexlieno]

@ssjj. you also said " I do believe" you DONT KNOW...none of us do.
the thing is you cant even down play the fight because it was 4 kage level guys fighting in a bubble, which high level jutsus were displayed.
and what we saw was the 3rd. stop 3 people period. did he whoop them no. but did he stop thwm for whooping him and destroying konoha. yes..

This is what I'm saying. THEY ALL were shells of themselves. The 3rd Just got the better of them all.

 

[ssjjfar]

I clearly said in the post just above yours that a war was started. Clearly the 3rd was at a disadvantage aswell due to age. They all were shells of themselves we get that. In the end the 3rd neutralized them all. That's the point.

I know that you realized the war started, I was asking how if that were actually he case would having no war mean anything.

Also I wasn't trying to focus on the 3rd vs 1st/2nd fight. I don't even bother try and say who is stronger, but do listen to other peoples reasoning.

@ssjj. you also said " I do believe" you DONT KNOW...none of us do.
the thing is you cant even down play the fight because it was 4 kage level guys fighting in a bubble, which high level jutsus were displayed.
and what we saw was the 3rd. stop 3 people period. did he whoop them no. but did he stop thwm for whooping him and destroying konoha. yes..

Hence why I said I believe and didn't say know?
I'm not trying to compare or downplay anything anyone(3rd) did there. Only reason I mentioned it was we still haven't got to see all of the 1st and 2nd power/abilities, and people can't use that fight to measure the 1st or the 2nds power.


Anyways thanks Nako, I guess Madara would also would make perfect sense for someone the 3rd would drastically want to stop from being summoned. I just never really thought about that fight again until recently.