The Official NBA Finals Thread: Game 7 - Cleveland Cavaliers are your 2016 NBA Champions

[DCAllAfrican]

More to do w/ physical capacities, sure. But actual TALENT? Nah not at all. I never heard of anyone being a "talented defender"

What are we defining "Talent" to be?

Maybe that is a hang up in this discussion

 

[MVP]

Skimmed your post, no disrespect but concerning Lebron you tend to be super less than objective but.....I do ask this

Give me the finals record of the top 5 GOATS then.

If Lebron is in talks to be top5 and this is why 2-7 would be terrible, give me the other top 5's resume, blood!

I'll wait.....

I'll give you the guys I have ahead of him right now.

MJ 6-0
Kareem 6-4
Magic 5-4
Russell 11-1
Duncan 5-1
Kobe 5-2
Shaq 4-2
Bird 3-2
Wilt 2-5
Bron 2-4

Funny though people say don't count the losses in 2007 or 2015 against Lebron, but somehow count the appearances, like how Sway? So is he really 2-2? Well that's still not better than the other guys on the list. He's the only one in the top 10 outside of Wilt with a losing record.

 

[Air Pope]

I dislike emotional debaters.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Let's have a discussion w/o resorting to insults or little shots. Save that for the chicks bruh

I called you Herb Pope. How is that a shot or an insult? I give EVERYONE a fake nickname man.

 

[Verde Shuttles]

I always felt like Ray Allen was a willing defender but was just terrible at it.

 

[Air Pope]

Dudes apparently believe that you have to be a born defender or something. You really don't. Playing basketball all my life has taught me that. If you don't have the "IQ" to stay w/ your man or switch off screens, then basketball is not the sport for you

Well, defensively, it will be tougher for your Mo Speights of the world than your Dwight Howards of the world just due to lack of physical tools.  Dude is like 6' 10" and cant dunk the ball.

Agree that defense is based a lot on effort, but if you are slow and unathletic, you are going to have a real hard time guarding your physical freaks like Westbrook.

That being said, Irving has the tools to be a good defender. 

I can def. agree w/ this. But ppl are acting like defense doesn't take any effort. There are a ton of athletic dudes on offense who seem to be bad defenders. The tools are there, they're just missing the effort part. You really have to WANT to play defense.

 

[Air Pope]

I always felt like Ray Allen was a willing defender but was just terrible at it.

There are exceptions to every rule

 

[DCAllAfrican]

I can def. agree w/ this. But ppl are acting like defense doesn't take any effort. There are a ton of athletic dudes on offense who seem to be bad defenders. The tools are there, they're just missing the effort part. You really have to WANT to play defense.

Quote the person that said anything close to that

 

[dland24]

Man. I don't know. But you shouldn't need to be doing extra work to convince your coworker that Kyrie is just bad on d. Your coworker needs eyes transplants.

Well......

That isnt the ENTIRE argument.  The argument was that I believe, in spite of the severe lack of offensive firepower, last year's Cavs team is/was a much tougher matchup for my Warriors because that team played exponentially better defense (one of the major reasons being Kyrie).  He is convinced that they would have won last year and is making all sorts of excuses today.  

And I wasnt really doing extra work haha.  It was just counting those points being the one thing I was doing besides simply enjoying the game. 

 

[DCAllAfrican]

I can def. agree w/ this. But ppl are acting like defense doesn't take any effort. There are a ton of athletic dudes on offense who seem to be bad defenders. The tools are there, they're just missing the effort part. You really have to WANT to play defense.

I guess you didn't read

 
Just like anything else, Depends on who you are honestly.

More effort is needed for Delly to be an above average on ball defender than it is for someone like Shumpert; who has greater physical tools.

But I get your point. Effort needs to be there if you want to consistently contribute on that end of the floor

 

[everysingletime]

I always felt like Ray Allen was a willing defender but was just terrible at it.

Idk if Ray Allen was terrible. Maybe for most of his career but in Boston he was good enough to play significantly for a vaunted defense. I'm of the belief that a good defense is only as good as its weakest link.

 

[oldhotdogwater]

Idk if Ray Allen was terrible. Maybe for most of his career but in Boston he was good enough to play significantly for a vaunted defense. I'm of the belief that a good defense is only as good as its weakest link.

Correct. He was a decent enough defender. In Miami he was food

 

[Air Pope]

I can def. agree w/ this. But ppl are acting like defense doesn't take any effort. There are a ton of athletic dudes on offense who seem to be bad defenders. The tools are there, they're just missing the effort part. You really have to WANT to play defense.

Quote the person that said anything close to that

You got it bro

 

[DCAllAfrican]

You got it bro

 
Just like anything else, Depends on who you are honestly.

More effort is needed for Delly to be an above average on ball defender than it is for someone like Shumpert; who has greater physical tools.

But I get your point. Effort needs to be there if you want to consistently contribute on that end of the floor

 

[Verde Shuttles]

Idk if Ray Allen was terrible. Maybe for most of his career but in Boston he was good enough to play significantly for a vaunted defense. I'm of the belief that a good defense is only as good as its weakest link.

it helps when you were surrounded by KG, Tony Allen, Perkins, and Rondo that played defense.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

You got it bro

Don't, "You got it" me when you are saying people said something that nobody said 

 

[Air Pope]

I can def. agree w/ this. But ppl are acting like defense doesn't take any effort. There are a ton of athletic dudes on offense who seem to be bad defenders. The tools are there, they're just missing the effort part. You really have to WANT to play defense.

I guess you didn't read

 
Just like anything else, Depends on who you are honestly.

More effort is needed for Delly to be an above average on ball defender than it is for someone like Shumpert; who has greater physical tools.

But I get your point. Effort needs to be there if you want to consistently contribute on that end of the floor
 
 

You aren't the only one in this thread bruh

 

[lamekilla]

How much is it Kyrie being bad on defense vs him being at a size disadvantage against the likes of livingston and barnes

Thank you. Kyrie isn't great on defense but most of his missed opportunities on D came from size disadvantage. Adjustments will be made

 

[DCAllAfrican]

You aren't the only one in this thread bruh

So again, quote the person that said effort isn't needed

 

[superflyinchopstickninja]

More to do w/ physical capacities, sure. But actual TALENT? Nah not at all. I never heard of anyone being a "talented defender"

Kawhi Leonard?

 

[junglejim]

Thank you. Kyrie isn't great on defense but most of his missed opportunities on D came from size disadvantage. Adjustments will be made

Again, I disagree.  There were at least 15-20 points last night where he got beat off of simple moves or back cuts.  That's bad D.

 

[Air Pope]

You aren't the only one in this thread bruh

So again, quote the person that said effort isn't needed

I said you got it bruh.


Still think defense is more effort than talent.

 

[Air Pope]

Just letting y'all know, y'all don't have to agree w/ things I say. Don't take it so personal

 

[everysingletime]

I think you do need the talent to get that boost and be an elite defender BUT with effort no nba player should be at the point where you are food.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Just letting y'all know, y'all don't have to agree w/ things I say. Don't take it so personal

Nah, you aren't getting off that easy.

Quote the people that are "acting like" defense doesn't demand effort.