The Penn State Child-Sex Abuse Scandal Thread...Hammer dropped on PSU...sanctions galore.

[the wizard]

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by StillIn729

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

On top of it all, in 1999 Paterno was the one who said Sandusky couldn't be the coach-in-waiting because he was spending too much time at Second Mile.  He knew what the problem was especially off of that 1998 report.  


*Why knock iLLWill for his religious beliefs?  If that's what he thinks, so be it.  Besides...that's not the issue here that we're discussing. 
    

stop reading into that so much; you are grasping at straws.  Joe just didn't want to step down is it not fairly obvious? If that is some kind of conspiracy then he would have still named someone else coach at that point. 

So he's going to cite Sandusky's time spent at The Second Mile as a reason for WHY he can't be named the coach-in-waiting???  LOLOLOLOL....get your blinders off.  How long did Jimbo Fisher know he was Bobby Bowden's coach in waiting before it went public? 

  

55 year old coaches don't just up and retire because they won't become the HCIW, if that's their end goal, they go to another school.

How does/did JoePa sell his program? As being the only 1 of 2 that hadn't been caught up in sanctions by the NCAA. A holier than thou type approach. How does he benefit from the news of Sandusky getting out? Rat him out, and he is perceived as a bad judge of character. This man coached on your staff for decades and there had been suspicions of improprieties before, and you never confronted it once?

Where there's smoke, there's fire.

 

[sillyputty]

This Sandusky guy was bold as hell though...how you pulling that crap in the facility locker rooms?!

No sort of discretion AT ALL.

 

[p mac one]

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by GUNNA GET IT

P Mac, here's the problem,

If Paterno claims he didn't know the severity, why wouldn't he question why Sandusky is banned from being around Campus with kids?...

His own testimony says he basically KNEW.

No respect for anyone involved.

On top of it all, in 1999 Paterno was the one who said Sandusky couldn't be the coach-in-waiting because he was spending too much time at Second Mile.  He knew what the problem was especially off of that 1998 report.  

    

Not saying the JoePa isn't in the wrong. He needs to go just like everyone else. Just feel like people are ignoring the fact that McQueary saw it, heard it, saw them run away when they saw him and then didn't do anything about it.

 

[DownByLaw]

Originally Posted by af1 1982


With the facts I am given, I'll stand by my standpoint that Paterno shows no blame.

Seriously?

 

[witnesskb24]

Originally Posted by ex carrabba fan

Originally Posted by Crime Wave

Too soon though

at the McCain and JoePa comparison

If older women prefer someone younger they are called cougars. If older men prefer someone younger are they called nittany lions?
[font='lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]
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[font='lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]Saw that on my facebook earlier 

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[thekillerj23]

Sillyputty, troll of the year, he trolls in the music thread and now he brought it over to S&T...

 

[dako akong otin]

was matt millen crying because of the kids? or because he was defending Paterno?  i got confused becaused because he was just talking about people making him sick and stuff.. didn't really address it to anyone in particular. 

 

[swooshallday]

Originally Posted by FIRST B0RN

Originally Posted by af1 1982


With the facts I am given, I'll stand by my standpoint that Paterno shows no blame.

Seriously?

of course he "shows" no blame...but he better "SHARE" the blame

 

[stillin729]

Originally Posted by WITNESSkb24

Originally Posted by ex carrabba fan

Originally Posted by Crime Wave

Too soon though

at the McCain and JoePa comparison

If older women prefer someone younger they are called cougars. If older men prefer someone younger are they called nittany lions?
[font='lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]
[/font]

[font='lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]Saw that on my facebook earlier 

[/font]

don't really see how any of that is funny; the *#&% that happened to these boys is in all likelihood going to mess them up for the rest of their lives and god knows what they have had to live with while this wasn't out to the general public. 

 

[Kimchi Papi]

Interesting piece from SI.com's Michael Mcann. Link to story here.



While Pennsylvania Attorney General Linda Kelly says that her office won't file charges against Joe Paterno for not reporting the alleged child sexual abuse by former Penn State defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky, the 84-year-old coach could eventually face criminal charges for perjury, obstruction of justice and violating the state's Child Protective Services Law. Paterno could also become a defendant in civil lawsuits filed by Sandusky's alleged victims. Those lawsuits could allege that Paterno negligently failed to prevent a third party with whom he had a supervisory relationship (Sandusky) from committing abuse.

Perjury and Obstruction of Justice

Under Pennsylvania law, as in other jurisdictions, perjury refers to knowingly lying while under oath. Obstruction of justice describes interference with the administration of justice, such as by concealing evidence or delaying or frustrating a criminal investigation. While Paterno has thus far escaped these criminal charges, his statements and behavior suggest that he remains vulnerable to them. That is particularly evident when considering troubling inconsistencies between Paterno's testimony to the grand jury that investigated Sandusky and the testimony of Penn State assistant Mike McQueary.

These inconsistencies related to Paterno's and McQueary's statements about "Victim 2" in the grand jury's statement of facts. According to the grand jury's findings of fact, McQueary detailed how in 2002 he saw a naked Sandusky sexually abusing a young boy in the showers in the Penn State football locker room. McQueary also testified that he told Paterno what he saw the following day, though it isn't clear from McQueary's testimony how explicit he was in his description to Paterno.

After hearing from McQueary, Paterno alerted athletic director Tim Curley. Yet instead of relaying what McQueary claims to have told him, Paterno conveyed a milder and vaguer description. Specifically, Paterno testified under oath that McQueary had said that Sandusky was engaged in fondling or "doing something of a sexual nature" to a boy.

To be sure, the phrase "doing something of a sexual nature" technically includes forcibly subjecting a child to anal intercourse, meaning Paterno may have been more evasive than untruthful. Then again, Paterno's hazy choice of words could encompass a band of sexual acts, from raping a 10-year-old boy to inappropriately touching or patting a child, that ranges too widely in heinousness to be deemed consistent with McQueary's allegedly more specific statements. The phrase unnecessarily imports ambiguity and generality where none had existed, and dubiously invites the listener -- Curley -- to assign a lack of severity to the incident. From that lens, Paterno appears to have told Curley a different account than what McQueary had told him.

The inconsistent testimonies raise several questions:

• Did McQueary lie to the grand jury about what he saw or told Paterno?

• Did Paterno lie to the grand jury about what McQueary had told him?

• If neither witness lied, did Paterno intentionally misrepresent what McQueary had told him in order to discourage Curley from aggressively investigating the matter or alerting the police? If so, did Paterno conceal the severity of the evidence or delay the onset of a criminal investigation to such an extent that he obstructed justice?

It should be reiterated that Paterno is at least publicly regarded by law enforcement authorities as a witness, rather than as a possible defendant; if authorities thought his actions clearly violated the law, he would have already been charged, just like Curley and former Penn State senior vice president of business and finance Gary Schultz. For purposes of obstruction of justice, Paterno also benefits from Pennsylvania's statute of limitations, which prevents authorities from charging individuals with crimes after a period of years. Although the length of years can be extended or "tolled" under certain circumstances, authorities would likely encounter difficulty charging Paterno nearly 10 years after the 2002 incident. Statute of limitations would not help Paterno deflect perjury charges, however, as his grand jury testimony occurred within the last year, thereby clearly falling within the applicable five-year statute of limitations.

Nonetheless, the potential exists for Paterno to face both perjury and obstruction of justice charges, especially as the investigation intensifies and as other witnesses, as well as defendants and potential defendants, talk. Also, should Curley and Schultz and, if eventually charged, university president Graham Spanier seek plea deals, they may be willing to implicate Paterno in exchange for more favorable treatment. Paterno, conversely, could seek the same type of arrangement with prosecutors, implicating Curley, Schultz et al. in exchange for avoiding prosecution. It is thus very possible that Penn State officials who worked closely together may wind up in a "prisoner's dilemma" where they will have an incentive to cut a deal and implicate their former colleagues before those former colleagues cut a deal and implicate them.

Child Protective Services Law

Under Pennsylvania's Child Protective Services Law, certain individuals, including teachers and school administrators, have a legal obligation to immediately report suspected child abuse to child protective services or law enforcement, or to a "person in charge" (supervisor), who must then report the alleged abuse to the authorities. The reporting must be honest. When in writing, the reporting must also include known information about the nature and extent of the suspected abuse, along with other material details.

Within one day of learning from McQueary of the alleged abuse, Paterno notified Curley, his boss. By doing so, Paterno satisfied an obligation to immediately report to a person in charge.

On the other hand, one could read the Child Protective Services Law to classify Paterno as himself a person in charge of McQueary and as one who had a subsequent obligation to report to the authorities. Still, Curley's status as Paterno's boss likely insulates Paterno from liability, at least for failing to notify child protective services or law enforcement.

Paterno may have nonetheless violated the Child Protective Services Law by failing to tell Curley the specific story as told by McQueary and by failing to provide known information about the nature and extent of the suspected abuse. As discussed above, if McQueary's testimony is true, Paterno appeared to downplay the severity of the incident while speaking with Curley. His portrayal seemed incomplete, if not outright disingenuous. Also, while Paterno made his initial report of the suspected child abuse to Curley by phone, any written communications would have required the known information.

In Paterno's defense, law enforcement authorities have indicated that, in their current view, while Paterno appeared to do the bare minimum, he technically satisfied his legal obligations under the Child Protective Services Law. Whether that viewpoint proves sustainable could depend on the development of new and more incriminating facts and public pressure.

Negligence

Although Sandusky retired from coaching Penn State's football team in 1999, he remained connected to the university in a professional capacity. Until this past weekend, in fact, he was listed on the school's website as "assistant professor emeritus of physical education." He also enjoyed access to the football team's gym and other facilities, as well as use of a psu.edu e-mail account.

Sandusky's alleged victims could file lawsuits against Penn State for negligently failing to protect them from Sandusky. Under tort law, employers have a duty to prevent their employees from committing crimes or civil harms on others while their employees are engaged in their employment. Even after Sandusky retired, Penn State, by allowing him on campus despite questions about his treatment of children, could have breached a duty of care to children whom Sandusky allegedly abused. Penn State, for its part, could maintain that it took preventative steps, including prohibiting Sandusky from bringing children to campus and taking away his keys to university facilities. It could also portray Sandusky as no longer an employee but rather a retired individual who was permitted to use a very limited range of campus resources.

The alleged victims could also sue Paterno on similar grounds. While Paterno was not technically Sandusky's "boss" after 1999, it seems plausible to assume that Sandusky -- still actively involved with the team, albeit in an informal capacity -- continued to view himself as Paterno's subordinate. Victims of Sandusky could allege that Paterno negligently failed to protect them or to adequately warn authorities of Sandusky's alleged abuse of children.

Should tort lawsuits be filed, expect Penn State, Paterno and other targeted Penn State officials (e.g., Curley, Schultz and Spanier) to attempt to settle the claims before they go to trial. At a minimum, such trials would paint the university and its top officials as immoral and irresponsible, and as embracing a "hear no evil, see no evil" approach to what appears to be the actions of a sadistic man.

 

[sonoftony]

Originally Posted by WITNESSkb24

Originally Posted by ex carrabba fan

Originally Posted by Crime Wave

Too soon though

at the McCain and JoePa comparison

If older women prefer someone younger they are called cougars. If older men prefer someone younger are they called nittany lions?
[font='lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]
[/font]

[font='lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]Saw that on my facebook earlier 

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i know a couple of PSU alums and they still support JoePa which is beyond me IMO.

 

[witnesskb24]

Originally Posted by StillIn729

Originally Posted by WITNESSkb24

Originally Posted by ex carrabba fan

Too soon though

at the McCain and JoePa comparison

If older women prefer someone younger they are called cougars. If older men prefer someone younger are they called nittany lions?
[font='lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]
[/font]

[font='lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif]Saw that on my facebook earlier 

[/font]

don't really see how any of that is funny; the *#&% that happened to these boys is in all likelihood going to mess them up for the rest of their lives and god knows what they have had to live with while this wasn't out to the general public. 

You had better edit that GOD part out before silly putty sees it

 

[riceballer2]

Sorry if already posted, but did anyone happen to read Jerry Sandusky's autobiography? It's on Amazon here...Amazon product ASIN 1582613575
Co-author also wrote a book before, titled - "Welcome to the Big Ten"

 

[venom lyrix]

Joe Pa can't even save face after what he said in his retirement statement.

Once he used the words "in hindsight I wish I had done more" that's it, it's almost an admission of guilt. He basically is saying he knew about it and that looking back on things he wish he took control of the situation an handled it the way it should have been.

That seems to be the dagger.

 

[hankmoody]

Originally Posted by swooshallday

Originally Posted by FIRST B0RN

Originally Posted by af1 1982


With the facts I am given, I'll stand by my standpoint that Paterno shows no blame.

Seriously?

of course he "shows" no blame...but he better "SHARE" the blame

What does "shows blame" even mean?

 

[T0INE]

Originally Posted by dako akong otin

was matt millen crying because of the kids? or because he was defending Paterno?  i got confused becaused because he was just talking about people making him sick and stuff.. didn't really address it to anyone in particular. 

It seemed he was upset because of the kids and the fact that people at Penn State whom he's had relationships/friendships with for years seem to turn a blind eye to all it.

I think that's why he said this whole situation was a "failure in humanity" and that he wanted to settle things himself.

 

[ashleythetall]

i've been reading this thread over the past few days as it develops and i just read the 23 page grand jury report.
from my past in NCAA athletics, the foundation of college athletics is crumbling and has been corrupted to the furthest degree.

disgusting stuff in there. old sick !%$+.

 

[dyyhard]

Originally Posted by RiceBaLLer2

Sorry if already posted, but did anyone happen to read Jerry Sandusky's autobiography? It's on Amazon here...Amazon product ASIN 1582613575
Co-author also wrote a book before, titled - "Welcome to the Big Ten"

all the comments are recent lashings against psu, joepa and sandusky, except for one.

the one guy who did read the pedophile's book said this...



14 of 75 people found the following review helpful:

5.0 out of 5 stars An exemplory life, September 27, 2005

By 

See all my reviews
(REAL NAME)  

This review is from: Touched: The Jerry Sandusky Story (Paperback)
Whe you finish this book you wish it was longer. Like a good movie you do not want it to end. It describes a man who has done some great things to help others. How many college football coaches would turn down 3 head coaching opportunities at big-time schools to stay in "Happy Valley". A couple who could not have their own children. Then adopted 6. Not all in infancy. A man who took in foster children and at the same time ran the defense for one of college football's elite teams for 23 years. A kid who never grew up. Yet a person who is so selfless it defies human ego. Everyone reading this should do themselves a moral favor and contribute money to the Second Mile. (...).





sounds familiar.

 

[stillin729]

someone was selling this on ebay; I get the feeling he took it down because he was probably taking serious heat. It was up to like $10,000 I believe

http://www.ebay.com/itm/J...1c20b94c6e#ht_500wt_1362

 

[CP1708]

Serious, you couldn't write this into a worse situation/story if you were making a movie. 

 

Dude has a book that everyone reads and has no clue how dirty this dude is.  2 decades of terrozing kids, with other grown @#$ men looking the other way.  A witness getting a nice cushy job after not doing anything.  The story only breaking nationwide after the ring leader gets his record. 

All of it, disgusting. 

I'd give anything to see the NCAA delete JoePa's records, kick him out of the hall of fame, banish everything he ever did.  And it still would not be enough. 

Penn St needs that SMU treatment.  LOIC goes way beyond recruiting some football players and giving $$ handshakes. 

 

[af1 1982]

Originally Posted by FIRST B0RN

Originally Posted by af1 1982


With the facts I am given, I'll stand by my standpoint that Paterno shows no blame.

Seriously?

First of all, you're gravedigging my friend. That is a statement I made days ago. If you have read my comments yesterday, I have changed my viewpoint on Paterno which is yes he $%#%*+ up, yes he deserves blame by his inaction. But I also believe that there is a lot more to the story then we are told. Paterno needs a chance to explain himself. He is too smart to try and get away with this. There had to be something going on that we don't know about. 

 

[kix4kix]

What I don't understand, is why punish the football team, in an issue that has nothing to do with the players. Clean house, do whatever you will, but this is a CRIMINAL case, everything else is arbitrary in my opinion. 

 

[af1 1982]

Originally Posted by kix4kix

What I don't understand, is why punish the football team, in an issue that has nothing to do with the players. Clean house, do whatever you will, but this is a CRIMINAL case, everything else is arlbitrary in my opinion. 

Exactly. Players did nothing wrong except be put in a very bad situation. 

 

[Kimchi Papi]

I don't know if anyone posted this yet, but there will more than likely be more victims that will come forward. Sandusky was there for years & he didn't just start molesting kids in '98. There will also be tons of law suits & I can't see Pedophile State University fighting them in court. They will likely settle pretty quickly. I know PSU is a pretty rich school so hopefully the coming law suits will backrupt the school into being a farming college.

 

[al3xis]

I'm not sure if the NCAA will do anything, but Colin Cowherd made a good point today: If this isn't a lack of institutional control, what the hell is?