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See: USC Fans, circa 2009
The U.... vol. Death Penalty?
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by Deleted member 37754,
- Start date
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mad wishful thinking going on in this thread.
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Turns out the story about the 10k payment for Dequan Jones was also completely bogus.
mr marcus
Banned
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Damn maybe moss telling the truth...idk tho..
furrell
Banned
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Most of the players on the revenue generating teams are not allowed to major in what they want to but have to take what the university schedules for them in order to keep their GPA over 2.0. The majors they are forced to declare have no value in the real world so if its not for an alumnus hooking them up or they are professional calibur, its going to be very hard for them after graduation. What does Communication and Rhetorical Studies do for you in the real world? These players scholarships are instantly paid off and recuperated by the university when they step on the field/court at the beginning of the season due to big television contracts. From there, each player is no longer an expense to the university. Outside of the classroom they still have to put in work on the practice field or they face losing their scholarship and having to drop out of school. Not everyone comes from a home like Greg McIlroy where they can regularly drop hundreds on dinner for his O-Line. Most of these players are from middle class to lower class families. They don't have the luxury of asking their parents to set up a bank account for them or taking out a credit card in their name. If someone gives them a hundred dollar handshake, I have no problem with it. They raise money for Olympic sports to stay afloat of which has players that can have an Olympic based deal and make money while they are an NCAA athlete. I've seen all of this from being friends with football and basketball players to having a father who coached one of the top AAU and high school basketball programs in the country.
You guys seriously need to stop quoting that NCAA study of 16 schools being in the black. An Outside the Lines investigation revealed that over 60 schools profited from the athletic programs last year. Guess which programs those were? FCS schools. Schools with bloated television contracts, schools that can afford to raise concession, parking and game ticket prices each year and still turn a profit. Even if its .01 profit, its still a profit.
I don't think Miami gets the death penalty but they will get a stiff punishment.
For all of you guys who hate the idea of college athletes receiving benefits you had better hope the talks of them unionizing don't come up again. The talk was heavy in 2008 by my former Sports Management professor who used to be the athletic director at Cornell. They were going to be backed by the construction union if it went through.
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greenbean
formerly pleasesaythebaby23
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^ Listen to that Brando interview. Not looking good. Moss is just an idiot
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[h1]Many named in Miami scandal still eligible. Why? Limited immunity[/h1]
/sports.cbsimg.net/images/cbss/ui5/authors/70x60/257.jpg")">http://sports.cbsimg.net/...ors/70x60/257.jpg") no-repeat scroll left top white; height: 60px;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> By Dennis Dodd
CBSSports.com Senior Writer
Aug. 22, 2011Tell Dennis your opinion!
In the immediate aftermath of the Miami scandal, Purdue released a 37-word statement last week saying there were no "eligibility issues" with quarterback Robert Marve.
The one-time four-star prospect has been through a lot in his career -- an arrest, a car crash, suspensions, a contentious transfer from Miami, a season-ending knee injury. But the fact his eligibility remained intact just a day after Yahoo Sports' detailed report should have gotten the attention of anyone who has even a passing knowledge of NCAA rules.
Marve was among 65 current or former Miami players named in the report who allegedly took extra benefits from former booster Nevin Shapiro. He is alleged to have taken a cash gift (for an unspecified amount), gotten access to VIP nightclubs and treated to at least two dinners at a pricey Miami Beach steakhouse, where a Japanese A5 kobe filet goes for $30 an ounce and a hot dog costs $25.
If the allegations are true, by any measure Marve was guilty of accepting extra benefits while enrolled at Miami. Assuming the benefits exceeded $100, Marve should have been ineligible for at least two games according to NCAA guidelines. Extra benefits worth more than $500 would have caused him to sit for four.
Except he didn't sit, and won't -- not at Miami and not at Purdue, where he transferred following the 2008 season. Why? NCAA vice president of enforcement Julie Roe Lach may have dropped a hint recently.
"The enforcement staff has been given, by the membership, a pretty important investigative tool," Roe Lach told CBSSports.com in an exclusive interview.
"Limited immunity" is a little-known procedure granted to NCAA investigators to get information from a player "when such an individual otherwise might be declared ineligible for intercollegiate competition," according to the NCAA Manual.
Roe Lach put it another way: "When we think that's really our only shot of getting that information."
In essence, it allows guilty parties to become informants in exchange for playing time. The report contains at least two Miami transfers -- Marve and Kansas State linebacker Arthur Brown -- as well as seven players from other schools who were recruited by Miami but enrolled elsewhere.
Given the limited-immunity clause and other NCAA rules, it's reasonable to conclude that 60 of the 72 players named in Yahoo's report will not be affected. The large majority of those are either out of football or in the NFL. They cannot be compelled to talk by the NCAA. But no other former player or recruit has lost playing time. That would leave the 12 current Hurricanes who are named in the report. Their playing status has not been determined, at least not publicly.
The Yahoo report indicated only 12 current Hurricanes were affected, but Miami president Donna Shalala said Monday compliance officers are looking into the eligibility of 15 that Shapiro allegedly provided extra benefits to.
While no one at the NCAA will confirm that limited immunity has been used in this case, one source close to the investigation told CBSSports.com that "apparently they chose to give these guys limited immunity ... which means they're all eligible."
If there is any doubt about limited immunity, Roe Lach seemed remove it by saying, "You can't transfer to escape a penalty."
During the 25-minute interview, Roe Lach was speaking in broad terms and never specifically about the Miami case. She said prospects who take extra benefits at one school but sign with another are not pursued unless they are receiving those benefits from an agent. She then explained the limited-immunity possibility.
"You can draw own conclusions," she said, "based on what I share."
Other former Miami recruits named in the report include Kansas State running back Bryce Brown, Central Florida quarterback Jeffrey Godrey, Florida offensive lineman Matt Patchan, Georgia tight end Orson Charles and Florida receiver Andre Debose. To date, their eligibility has not been affected.
The limited-immunity clause goes back at least a quarter of a century. Former Oklahoma State receiver Hart Lee !!#*+ was one of 12 Cowboys players granted limited immunity in 1988 during a case that landed four schools (Illinois, Texas A&M, Oklahoma State and Oklahoma) on probation.
Oklahoma State was eventually handed crippling penalties as a result of !!#*+' testimony. The receiver reportedly had gotten at least $23,000 in benefits.
One source who has been through approximately 50 NCAA cases over the past 20 years said limited immunity had been used only a handful of times. That alone suggests the scope of the Miami investigation by the NCAA, which is entering its sixth month. Those 72 prospects, current and former players were allegedly given benefits by Shapiro that could be conservatively estimated to total six figures.
The NCAA seems to be targeting the adults and the school, not the players, in building its case against Miami. As noted, recruiting violations typically follow transfers, such as Marve, to the new school. Recruits are thought to be less culpable. Extra benefits taken during a recruiting visit count only if that recruit signs where the violation occurs.
Then there's that exception. If the extra benefit is accepted from a third party, such as an agent, that is a violation of the NCAA amateurism bylaw. Whether the NCAA will determine Shapiro's role as that of an agent isn't known. Shapiro at one time co-owned an agency that represented players.
"Historically, the idea has been when there are violations involving prospects, it's the coach or the booster or the school who knows better," Roe Lach said. "Sometimes the prospects or the prospect's family doesn't [know better], so it's not fair."
That seems to be the case with Arthur and Bryce Brown. Arthur was the celebrated linebacker recruit from Wichita, Kan., who spent two seasons at Miami before transferring to Kansas State. According to Yahoo, brother Bryce, a big-time tailback prospect, was entertained with his family by Shapiro during a 2008 recruiting visit.
Arthur Brown is alleged to have taken at least $2,000 worth of benefits, meals, drinks, hotel rooms and a strip club visit while enrolled at Miami. Just as in Marve's case, those types of violations would follow a player even if he transferred.
On Wednesday, Kansas State released a statement regarding the Brown brothers, saying the NCAA "has no concerns about their eligibility to compete at K-State." Bryce is a transfer from Tennessee.
Arthur Brown Sr., the players' father, told CBSSports.com that he met Shapiro one time.
"At the time we met, we asked him if he was an alumni or if he was an agent," Brown Sr. said. "He said no, that he wasn't."
The father added that he met Shapiro through then-Miami player Randy Phillips.
"We actually flew down to the [2008] spring game," Brown Sr. said. "I had never heard of [Shapiro]. I was told somebody wants to meet us. At the time I had no idea who he was. We only had lunch."
Shapiro told Yahoo he broke rules by paying for hotel rooms for the Brown family and adviser Brian Butler. Shapiro also said he paid for lunch for the Browns at the high-end Smith and Wollensky steakhouse on Miami Beach.
Brown Sr. said he was "not at liberty" to say whether his sons had been interviewed by the NCAA. He had not been interviewed and was not familiar with the term "limited immunity."
If you've noticed a loophole the size of a Mack truck, you're on the right track. Theoretically, a recruit could party it up during his five official visits, but as long as he didn't sign with any of those schools, he would be in the clear.
Roe Lach admitted there could be an opening "if the student-athlete is savvy in gaming the system and being an open party to recruiting violations." But she countered that the resulting paperwork from chasing every recruiting violation at every school wouldn't exactly enhance the NCAA's image.
"It almost would be a bureaucratic mess if all those violations are going to affect a prospect's eligibility at every school," Roe Lach said.
NCAA rules on such visits are restrictive. Student hosts are allowed only $30 per day to entertain the host, the prospect and his/her family. That is aside from complimentary meals provided by the school.
If the emerging details are true, it's obvious that Nevin Shapiro never read those rules or didn't care -- or both.
"It's kind of mind-boggling," Brown Sr. said. "I don't really have any words for it. It definitely can take your breath away. I would have never imagined."
CBSSports.com Senior Writer
Aug. 22, 2011Tell Dennis your opinion!
| |
| Bryce Brown, once a Vols RB now at K-State, was wooed by Miami and is implicated in the scandal.(US Presswire) |
In the immediate aftermath of the Miami scandal, Purdue released a 37-word statement last week saying there were no "eligibility issues" with quarterback Robert Marve.
The one-time four-star prospect has been through a lot in his career -- an arrest, a car crash, suspensions, a contentious transfer from Miami, a season-ending knee injury. But the fact his eligibility remained intact just a day after Yahoo Sports' detailed report should have gotten the attention of anyone who has even a passing knowledge of NCAA rules.
Marve was among 65 current or former Miami players named in the report who allegedly took extra benefits from former booster Nevin Shapiro. He is alleged to have taken a cash gift (for an unspecified amount), gotten access to VIP nightclubs and treated to at least two dinners at a pricey Miami Beach steakhouse, where a Japanese A5 kobe filet goes for $30 an ounce and a hot dog costs $25.
If the allegations are true, by any measure Marve was guilty of accepting extra benefits while enrolled at Miami. Assuming the benefits exceeded $100, Marve should have been ineligible for at least two games according to NCAA guidelines. Extra benefits worth more than $500 would have caused him to sit for four.
Except he didn't sit, and won't -- not at Miami and not at Purdue, where he transferred following the 2008 season. Why? NCAA vice president of enforcement Julie Roe Lach may have dropped a hint recently.
"The enforcement staff has been given, by the membership, a pretty important investigative tool," Roe Lach told CBSSports.com in an exclusive interview.
"Limited immunity" is a little-known procedure granted to NCAA investigators to get information from a player "when such an individual otherwise might be declared ineligible for intercollegiate competition," according to the NCAA Manual.
Roe Lach put it another way: "When we think that's really our only shot of getting that information."
In essence, it allows guilty parties to become informants in exchange for playing time. The report contains at least two Miami transfers -- Marve and Kansas State linebacker Arthur Brown -- as well as seven players from other schools who were recruited by Miami but enrolled elsewhere.
Given the limited-immunity clause and other NCAA rules, it's reasonable to conclude that 60 of the 72 players named in Yahoo's report will not be affected. The large majority of those are either out of football or in the NFL. They cannot be compelled to talk by the NCAA. But no other former player or recruit has lost playing time. That would leave the 12 current Hurricanes who are named in the report. Their playing status has not been determined, at least not publicly.
The Yahoo report indicated only 12 current Hurricanes were affected, but Miami president Donna Shalala said Monday compliance officers are looking into the eligibility of 15 that Shapiro allegedly provided extra benefits to.
While no one at the NCAA will confirm that limited immunity has been used in this case, one source close to the investigation told CBSSports.com that "apparently they chose to give these guys limited immunity ... which means they're all eligible."
If there is any doubt about limited immunity, Roe Lach seemed remove it by saying, "You can't transfer to escape a penalty."
During the 25-minute interview, Roe Lach was speaking in broad terms and never specifically about the Miami case. She said prospects who take extra benefits at one school but sign with another are not pursued unless they are receiving those benefits from an agent. She then explained the limited-immunity possibility.
"You can draw own conclusions," she said, "based on what I share."
Other former Miami recruits named in the report include Kansas State running back Bryce Brown, Central Florida quarterback Jeffrey Godrey, Florida offensive lineman Matt Patchan, Georgia tight end Orson Charles and Florida receiver Andre Debose. To date, their eligibility has not been affected.
The limited-immunity clause goes back at least a quarter of a century. Former Oklahoma State receiver Hart Lee !!#*+ was one of 12 Cowboys players granted limited immunity in 1988 during a case that landed four schools (Illinois, Texas A&M, Oklahoma State and Oklahoma) on probation.
Oklahoma State was eventually handed crippling penalties as a result of !!#*+' testimony. The receiver reportedly had gotten at least $23,000 in benefits.
One source who has been through approximately 50 NCAA cases over the past 20 years said limited immunity had been used only a handful of times. That alone suggests the scope of the Miami investigation by the NCAA, which is entering its sixth month. Those 72 prospects, current and former players were allegedly given benefits by Shapiro that could be conservatively estimated to total six figures.
The NCAA seems to be targeting the adults and the school, not the players, in building its case against Miami. As noted, recruiting violations typically follow transfers, such as Marve, to the new school. Recruits are thought to be less culpable. Extra benefits taken during a recruiting visit count only if that recruit signs where the violation occurs.
Then there's that exception. If the extra benefit is accepted from a third party, such as an agent, that is a violation of the NCAA amateurism bylaw. Whether the NCAA will determine Shapiro's role as that of an agent isn't known. Shapiro at one time co-owned an agency that represented players.
"Historically, the idea has been when there are violations involving prospects, it's the coach or the booster or the school who knows better," Roe Lach said. "Sometimes the prospects or the prospect's family doesn't [know better], so it's not fair."
That seems to be the case with Arthur and Bryce Brown. Arthur was the celebrated linebacker recruit from Wichita, Kan., who spent two seasons at Miami before transferring to Kansas State. According to Yahoo, brother Bryce, a big-time tailback prospect, was entertained with his family by Shapiro during a 2008 recruiting visit.
Arthur Brown is alleged to have taken at least $2,000 worth of benefits, meals, drinks, hotel rooms and a strip club visit while enrolled at Miami. Just as in Marve's case, those types of violations would follow a player even if he transferred.
On Wednesday, Kansas State released a statement regarding the Brown brothers, saying the NCAA "has no concerns about their eligibility to compete at K-State." Bryce is a transfer from Tennessee.
Arthur Brown Sr., the players' father, told CBSSports.com that he met Shapiro one time.
"At the time we met, we asked him if he was an alumni or if he was an agent," Brown Sr. said. "He said no, that he wasn't."
The father added that he met Shapiro through then-Miami player Randy Phillips.
"We actually flew down to the [2008] spring game," Brown Sr. said. "I had never heard of [Shapiro]. I was told somebody wants to meet us. At the time I had no idea who he was. We only had lunch."
Shapiro told Yahoo he broke rules by paying for hotel rooms for the Brown family and adviser Brian Butler. Shapiro also said he paid for lunch for the Browns at the high-end Smith and Wollensky steakhouse on Miami Beach.
Brown Sr. said he was "not at liberty" to say whether his sons had been interviewed by the NCAA. He had not been interviewed and was not familiar with the term "limited immunity."
If you've noticed a loophole the size of a Mack truck, you're on the right track. Theoretically, a recruit could party it up during his five official visits, but as long as he didn't sign with any of those schools, he would be in the clear.
Roe Lach admitted there could be an opening "if the student-athlete is savvy in gaming the system and being an open party to recruiting violations." But she countered that the resulting paperwork from chasing every recruiting violation at every school wouldn't exactly enhance the NCAA's image.
"It almost would be a bureaucratic mess if all those violations are going to affect a prospect's eligibility at every school," Roe Lach said.
NCAA rules on such visits are restrictive. Student hosts are allowed only $30 per day to entertain the host, the prospect and his/her family. That is aside from complimentary meals provided by the school.
If the emerging details are true, it's obvious that Nevin Shapiro never read those rules or didn't care -- or both.
"It's kind of mind-boggling," Brown Sr. said. "I don't really have any words for it. It definitely can take your breath away. I would have never imagined."
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15 current players, up from 12, under investigation now.
Hmmm.
Hmmm.
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http://espn.go.com/college-football...layers-ineligible-reinstated-ncaa-source-says
Source: 13 Miami players ineligible
CORAL GABLES, Fla. -- Thirteen Miami football players are ineligible until they are reinstated by the NCAA, a source close to the team confirmed to ESPN.com's Heather Dinich.
A report in the Miami Herald said Miami was expected to declare players under investigation by the NCAA ineligible within the next week to allow the NCAA to make a ruling by the season opener.
A person with knowledge of the process says Miami's internal investigation has determined some players are believed to have committed NCAA violations by associating with booster Nevin Shapiro.
Miami players implicated by claims that a rogue booster provided dozens of Hurricanes with extra benefits like cash, cars, gifts and sex for the better part of adecade returned to the practice field Thursday. Whether they play in the season-opener at Maryland on Sept. 5 remains unclear, as the university works through the process of determining their eligibility.
The university has asked the NCAA for help in deciding their eligibility, an expected procedural move.
The person spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity Thursday because no one at the university is authorized to discuss the ongoing investigation.
Under NCAA rules, when a school finds violations have occurred, the athlete must be declared ineligible. Then the NCAA begins reinstatement hearings, which typically can be expedited at a university's request.
Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.
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Suspend the players and hope for leniency. We'll see how that works
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If the NCAA rules before the season that's some MF bull #@**. They took their sweet $*% time with us last year, so please do the same for Miami.
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They ruled in the same week with Cam so we'll just have to see how it goes.
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Our situation was completely different than these allegations made against Miami's program, don't get it twisted. We had every reason to believe nothing was going to happen because it took years and they still didn't have real proof. If what we had been accused of made it's way into a courtroom, the judge would have dismissed it at the hearing. The NCAA wanted to make an example out of us and that's exactly what they did. I hope Miami fans/students brace themselves for what's coming.
D
Deleted member 37754
Guest
[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]came in here to post the above.... not worried about Jacory seeing as Morris has been step for step and at times better. But it's the others including ray-ray that worry me. we'll see..... [/color]
[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)].[/color]
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Trey Bantz
formerly trey ohh five
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Good move on Miami's part by declaring those players ineligible.
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greenbean
formerly pleasesaythebaby23
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its not looking good for us
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Charles Robinson's response to Jason Whitlock:
http://www.61sports.com/topic/play_window.php?audioType=Episode&audioId=5447549
http://www.61sports.com/topic/play_window.php?audioType=Episode&audioId=5447549
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I'm with Robinson in this thing with Whitlock, but I am curious about the drugs thing. No way there weren't drugs involved
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