The Ultimate Soccer Thread 2010-2011 VOL. Premier league, La Liga, Serie A & Bundesliga

[shaunhillftw49]

Better than Uruguay isn't laughable after seeing the horrible squad play them. Definitely not better than Argentina or Brazil.

 

[DeadsetAce]

i'm pretty sure he wasn't including south america

 

[ruffrydya08]

Mexico isn't better than Uruguay but I think it's safe to say that this Mexico team is hardly the same team that you saw in SA last year, and this Argentina & Brazil teams aren't nearly the same either, for better or for worse.

I do support Brazil (my moms side) but FWIW I think, and many back home that this was one of the most uninspired performances by a Brazilian team on a national level in quite some time. For all the $%%@ Dunga took, what has Menezes done that's been better? He included Ganso & Neymar which is why most folks laid off of him as far as squad selection went. IMO taking those two doesn't offset that he continues to play Pato as a lone striker and it's not even funny how much Robinho has regressed in the last couple of years. I know Pato is still 21 and what not but he still only shows flashes while playing in the worst of the big 4 leagues in Europe. And on top of all of this you have guys on Brazil defending yesterday's performance. Ok, the pitch might as well been the beach, but still these guys were knocking the ball around at a pace slower than the Womens Final yesterday. As a Brazilian, the performance yesterday was a disgrace.

I personally feel that Mexico's Gold Cup team is a better TEAM than Brazil at the moment. While I see alot of you disagree, this is my opinion. There's no justification that Argentina and / or Brazil are better than Mexico at the moment either. Last year's WC means nothing IMO. Mexico wasn't the team it currently is, neither was Brazil and/or Argentina...

 

[ruffrydya08]

Mexico isn't better than Uruguay but I think it's safe to say that this Mexico team is hardly the same team that you saw in SA last year, and this Argentina & Brazil teams aren't nearly the same either, for better or for worse.

I do support Brazil (my moms side) but FWIW I think, and many back home that this was one of the most uninspired performances by a Brazilian team on a national level in quite some time. For all the $%%@ Dunga took, what has Menezes done that's been better? He included Ganso & Neymar which is why most folks laid off of him as far as squad selection went. IMO taking those two doesn't offset that he continues to play Pato as a lone striker and it's not even funny how much Robinho has regressed in the last couple of years. I know Pato is still 21 and what not but he still only shows flashes while playing in the worst of the big 4 leagues in Europe. And on top of all of this you have guys on Brazil defending yesterday's performance. Ok, the pitch might as well been the beach, but still these guys were knocking the ball around at a pace slower than the Womens Final yesterday. As a Brazilian, the performance yesterday was a disgrace.

I personally feel that Mexico's Gold Cup team is a better TEAM than Brazil at the moment. While I see alot of you disagree, this is my opinion. There's no justification that Argentina and / or Brazil are better than Mexico at the moment either. Last year's WC means nothing IMO. Mexico wasn't the team it currently is, neither was Brazil and/or Argentina...

 

[Beans]

Originally Posted by IMASOLEMAN18

Shay Given To City

you mean villa?

 

[Beans]

Originally Posted by IMASOLEMAN18

Shay Given To City

you mean villa?

 

[knightngale]

Mexico played a bunch of trash teams and a trash USA team. They had trouble putting away GUATEMALA.

This is why Mexico getting eliminated early in the world cup is always one of the best moments during every world cup.

 

[knightngale]

Mexico played a bunch of trash teams and a trash USA team. They had trouble putting away GUATEMALA.

This is why Mexico getting eliminated early in the world cup is always one of the best moments during every world cup.

 

[persiafly]

Originally Posted by RuffRydya08

Mexico isn't better than Uruguay but I think it's safe to say that this Mexico team is hardly the same team that you saw in SA last year, and this Argentina & Brazil teams aren't nearly the same either, for better or for worse.

I do support Brazil (my moms side) but FWIW I think, and many back home that this was one of the most uninspired performances by a Brazilian team on a national level in quite some time. For all the $%%@ Dunga took, what has Menezes done that's been better? He included Ganso & Neymar which is why most folks laid off of him as far as squad selection went. IMO taking those two doesn't offset that he continues to play Pato as a lone striker and it's not even funny how much Robinho has regressed in the last couple of years. I know Pato is still 21 and what not but he still only shows flashes while playing in the worst of the big 4 leagues in Europe. And on top of all of this you have guys on Brazil defending yesterday's performance. Ok, the pitch might as well been the beach, but still these guys were knocking the ball around at a pace slower than the Womens Final yesterday. As a Brazilian, the performance yesterday was a disgrace.

I personally feel that Mexico's Gold Cup team is a better TEAM than Brazil at the moment. While I see alot of you disagree, this is my opinion. There's no justification that Argentina and / or Brazil are better than Mexico at the moment either. Last year's WC means nothing IMO. Mexico wasn't the team it currently is, neither was Brazil and/or Argentina...

You're making a huge leap in logic. Just because Argentina and Brazil seem to be on the decline and Mexico seems to be improving doesn't mean Mexico is better than the other two teams. Argentina and Brazil have been in a different class for decades, and Mexico winning the Gold Cup while Argentina and Brazil struggle in Copa America isn't going to change that. Until Mexico impresses against QUALITY teams in competitive matches, all of this is just baseless speculation. 

 

[persiafly]

Originally Posted by RuffRydya08

Mexico isn't better than Uruguay but I think it's safe to say that this Mexico team is hardly the same team that you saw in SA last year, and this Argentina & Brazil teams aren't nearly the same either, for better or for worse.

I do support Brazil (my moms side) but FWIW I think, and many back home that this was one of the most uninspired performances by a Brazilian team on a national level in quite some time. For all the $%%@ Dunga took, what has Menezes done that's been better? He included Ganso & Neymar which is why most folks laid off of him as far as squad selection went. IMO taking those two doesn't offset that he continues to play Pato as a lone striker and it's not even funny how much Robinho has regressed in the last couple of years. I know Pato is still 21 and what not but he still only shows flashes while playing in the worst of the big 4 leagues in Europe. And on top of all of this you have guys on Brazil defending yesterday's performance. Ok, the pitch might as well been the beach, but still these guys were knocking the ball around at a pace slower than the Womens Final yesterday. As a Brazilian, the performance yesterday was a disgrace.

I personally feel that Mexico's Gold Cup team is a better TEAM than Brazil at the moment. While I see alot of you disagree, this is my opinion. There's no justification that Argentina and / or Brazil are better than Mexico at the moment either. Last year's WC means nothing IMO. Mexico wasn't the team it currently is, neither was Brazil and/or Argentina...

You're making a huge leap in logic. Just because Argentina and Brazil seem to be on the decline and Mexico seems to be improving doesn't mean Mexico is better than the other two teams. Argentina and Brazil have been in a different class for decades, and Mexico winning the Gold Cup while Argentina and Brazil struggle in Copa America isn't going to change that. Until Mexico impresses against QUALITY teams in competitive matches, all of this is just baseless speculation. 

 

[5dividedby4]

Originally Posted by knightngale

Mexico played a bunch of trash teams and a trash USA team. They had trouble putting away GUATEMALA.

This is why Mexico getting eliminated early in the world cup is always one of the best moments during every world cup.

 

[5dividedby4]

Originally Posted by knightngale

Mexico played a bunch of trash teams and a trash USA team. They had trouble putting away GUATEMALA.

This is why Mexico getting eliminated early in the world cup is always one of the best moments during every world cup.

 

[ruffrydya08]

True. It is, but to say that Brazil and Argentina are better right now is baseless speculation as well, it's definitely not going off what the last 12 months since the WC have shown. IMO Argentina & Brazil took steps back since the World Cup, and I think most will agree that these 2010 Brazil and Argentina squads which went to SA were not even close to previous editions of WC teams from each country. Brazil just isn't the team most are accustomed to seeing and Argentina is a seriously flawed team. I remember reading a few pages back, forgot the argument but someone mentioned Brazil's current Golden Era being over, this is completely true. Kaka was the last holdover from this current Golden Era, and when you take him out of the side, you saw a Brazilian side with tremendous individual talent but no one to make the machine work.

I mean put aside the Mexico argument here, but how can you say right now that Argentina are DEFINITELY going to qualify for 2014. Obviously Mexico doesn't have to go through the same path but still, a team that most think is better than Mexico shouldn't have any difficulties qualifying right?

Even as a Brazilian I wouldn't want to see Argentina not qualify for 2014. You always want the best competition at the tourney and to not have one of the 3 best players in the world would be a travesty.


FWIW, the argument I was having last night with my friends was what teams CURRENTLY, could beat Brazil and Argentina right now. For me in no order:

Definitely: Holland, Spain, Germany, Uruguay
Probably: Mexico, France, Ghana, Japan, Portugal
Toss up: England, Chile, Switzerland, Ivory Coast, Croatia

Switzerland and Croatia may be reaches but Croatia is currently the the 8th ranked team in the world.

Obviously all these teams are capable of winning against anyone on any given day but it just says alot about both Argentina and Brazil that this can be a legitimate debate IMO

 

[ruffrydya08]

True. It is, but to say that Brazil and Argentina are better right now is baseless speculation as well, it's definitely not going off what the last 12 months since the WC have shown. IMO Argentina & Brazil took steps back since the World Cup, and I think most will agree that these 2010 Brazil and Argentina squads which went to SA were not even close to previous editions of WC teams from each country. Brazil just isn't the team most are accustomed to seeing and Argentina is a seriously flawed team. I remember reading a few pages back, forgot the argument but someone mentioned Brazil's current Golden Era being over, this is completely true. Kaka was the last holdover from this current Golden Era, and when you take him out of the side, you saw a Brazilian side with tremendous individual talent but no one to make the machine work.

I mean put aside the Mexico argument here, but how can you say right now that Argentina are DEFINITELY going to qualify for 2014. Obviously Mexico doesn't have to go through the same path but still, a team that most think is better than Mexico shouldn't have any difficulties qualifying right?

Even as a Brazilian I wouldn't want to see Argentina not qualify for 2014. You always want the best competition at the tourney and to not have one of the 3 best players in the world would be a travesty.


FWIW, the argument I was having last night with my friends was what teams CURRENTLY, could beat Brazil and Argentina right now. For me in no order:

Definitely: Holland, Spain, Germany, Uruguay
Probably: Mexico, France, Ghana, Japan, Portugal
Toss up: England, Chile, Switzerland, Ivory Coast, Croatia

Switzerland and Croatia may be reaches but Croatia is currently the the 8th ranked team in the world.

Obviously all these teams are capable of winning against anyone on any given day but it just says alot about both Argentina and Brazil that this can be a legitimate debate IMO

 

[adrian1221]

that black and red MAN CITY kit is

 

[adrian1221]

that black and red MAN CITY kit is

 

[persiafly]

The stuff you're saying makes some sense, but you're just getting carried away with everything. So Uruguay DEFINITELY beats Argentina although the teams just played and the game was decided on penalties? Ivory Coast, which is a team that is famous for its lack of cohesion and inability to make anything of its talent, is a "toss up" against Brazil and Argentina right now?

I was the one that said the Brazilian golden era is over, but you have to understand how wide the gap was between Brazil and a team like Mexico. Brazil's golden era could end, but that doesn't mean they're suddenly beatable by a team like Mexico. This is still a team with proven players like Julio Cesar, Lucio, Maicon, Dani Alves, Pato, Robinho, Ramires, etc.

To say that JAPAN and PORTUGAL and MEXICO would "PROBABLY" beat Brazil if they played right now is just absurd.

I'm done. This is not a rational discussion anymore once stuff like Japan > Brazil is tossed around.

 

[persiafly]

The stuff you're saying makes some sense, but you're just getting carried away with everything. So Uruguay DEFINITELY beats Argentina although the teams just played and the game was decided on penalties? Ivory Coast, which is a team that is famous for its lack of cohesion and inability to make anything of its talent, is a "toss up" against Brazil and Argentina right now?

I was the one that said the Brazilian golden era is over, but you have to understand how wide the gap was between Brazil and a team like Mexico. Brazil's golden era could end, but that doesn't mean they're suddenly beatable by a team like Mexico. This is still a team with proven players like Julio Cesar, Lucio, Maicon, Dani Alves, Pato, Robinho, Ramires, etc.

To say that JAPAN and PORTUGAL and MEXICO would "PROBABLY" beat Brazil if they played right now is just absurd.

I'm done. This is not a rational discussion anymore once stuff like Japan > Brazil is tossed around.

 

[downyboy]

Until Mexico impresses against QUALITY teams in competitive matches, all of this is just baseless speculation.

i'm just messing with you.

at this point mexico still has alot to prove before i start believing in them fully. the future looks bright with the current players and with the next batch of young guys from the recent u-17.

see knightngale is still here hating. stay salty my friend.

 

[xblaze23]

I think Portugal can take either of them out right now.

I think Brazil will be fine with some tweaking. Players like Neymar and Ganso need more seasoning. This was a sort of wake up call to both that they aren't quite there yet. I feel it was big mistake to leave Marcelo out of the list. He was most deserving to start at left back. Lastly, the three forwards who were starting were too similar in my opinion. Robinho is best on the left side but he was on the right to cater to Neymar.

Argentina needs a defensive re haul and a coach who can mix and match quality on paper with players that serve function. For example, it took 2 games to realize that 3 defensive mids was a bad idea? It took 2 games to realize Carlos Tevez and Lavezzi werent interested in the roles they were asked to play? Higuain was average at best but only he and Diego Milito could provide that reference up top.

 

[xblaze23]

I think Portugal can take either of them out right now.

I think Brazil will be fine with some tweaking. Players like Neymar and Ganso need more seasoning. This was a sort of wake up call to both that they aren't quite there yet. I feel it was big mistake to leave Marcelo out of the list. He was most deserving to start at left back. Lastly, the three forwards who were starting were too similar in my opinion. Robinho is best on the left side but he was on the right to cater to Neymar.

Argentina needs a defensive re haul and a coach who can mix and match quality on paper with players that serve function. For example, it took 2 games to realize that 3 defensive mids was a bad idea? It took 2 games to realize Carlos Tevez and Lavezzi werent interested in the roles they were asked to play? Higuain was average at best but only he and Diego Milito could provide that reference up top.

 

[downyboy]

Until Mexico impresses against QUALITY teams in competitive matches, all of this is just baseless speculation.

i'm just messing with you.

at this point mexico still has alot to prove before i start believing in them fully. the future looks bright with the current players and with the next batch of young guys from the recent u-17.

see knightngale is still here hating. stay salty my friend.

 

[ruffrydya08]

My dude, I'm Brazilian, trust me I understand how great the talent level is between us and Mexico in years past.
Pure talent will not help this team right now. As a whole, Brazilians are individualistic people, they don't do well when they are forced to be structured, in anything.

I mean you named all these "proven players" but...

Julio Cesar - Horrible form for about 3 months at Inter this past year
Lucio - probably won't even make the next Cup
Maicon - played well when put in for Alves but everyone knows what Bale did to his form in Europe
Dani Alves - Brutal at the Copa
Pato - Nothing, needs to come through in Europe, soon
Ramires - the one name I'll say did nothing to hurt or help himself
Robinho -

If you don't wanna look down the line and speculate about the future, sure Brazil and Argentina are world powers and no one will admit to them being poor sides until they get knocked out in major competitions and everyone knows that they're poor sides. Brazil hasn't played well in about a year. The best team they played in the last year was probably France and to be honest, that game might as well have been a game in the Copa, another uninspiring performance like every game these last 2 weeks. How can you say Mexico slapped around no talent teams when the only times this last year Brazil has looked good has been against the US and Scotland...

I'm just not waiting for the results to filter in to make my judgements. I believe my eyes and what I saw out of Brazil and Argentina are two seriously, seriously flawed teams, period.

 

[ruffrydya08]

My dude, I'm Brazilian, trust me I understand how great the talent level is between us and Mexico in years past.
Pure talent will not help this team right now. As a whole, Brazilians are individualistic people, they don't do well when they are forced to be structured, in anything.

I mean you named all these "proven players" but...

Julio Cesar - Horrible form for about 3 months at Inter this past year
Lucio - probably won't even make the next Cup
Maicon - played well when put in for Alves but everyone knows what Bale did to his form in Europe
Dani Alves - Brutal at the Copa
Pato - Nothing, needs to come through in Europe, soon
Ramires - the one name I'll say did nothing to hurt or help himself
Robinho -

If you don't wanna look down the line and speculate about the future, sure Brazil and Argentina are world powers and no one will admit to them being poor sides until they get knocked out in major competitions and everyone knows that they're poor sides. Brazil hasn't played well in about a year. The best team they played in the last year was probably France and to be honest, that game might as well have been a game in the Copa, another uninspiring performance like every game these last 2 weeks. How can you say Mexico slapped around no talent teams when the only times this last year Brazil has looked good has been against the US and Scotland...

I'm just not waiting for the results to filter in to make my judgements. I believe my eyes and what I saw out of Brazil and Argentina are two seriously, seriously flawed teams, period.

 

[dlo13]

Yaya Toure just went down very awkwardly on this %+*% field in Vancouver. Looked bad.