The Ultimate Soccer Thread 2012-2013 Vol. 3 Premier League, La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga etc

[ajiiiplatinum]

Messi is not the greatest ever, not even top 3.

Maradona? Close but even Diego now knows Messi is better

Let me guess Pele? Lol. Not even close. Pele was schooling part time carpenters, plumers, farmers and mechanics in the 50s and 60s. And americans in the 70s. He didnt even play in a top club in Europe.

DiEstefano? No Maradona was better.

Cryuff? Not even the best player to play for Barca.

Beckenbauer? A top 5 only.

Platini? Now we are getting into top 10 territory.

Messi is Number 1 Hate it or love it.

 

[jada2001retro]

Pele is not the greatest football of all time?

Answer something for me....

WHAT HAS MESSI DONE WITH ARGENTINA?

 

[rook]

Pele is not the greatest football of all time?

Answer something for me....

WHAT HAS MESSI DONE WITH ARGENTINA?

Messi is simply the greatest to ever do it...AND HE'S 25!!!!!!!!!

You bring up the world cup, and I hate when people do that. Yeah, because Messi Is the reason Argentina doesn't excell in tournaments. Stop it

And please, don't bring up pele and his world cups in this argument. The competition he played against compared to what Messi has to deal with isn't even close at all. Not even in the same building

 

[jada2001retro]

Pele won 3 World Cup's, enough said.

Almost 600 goals in as almost as many matches with Santos...

 

[rook]

Not even going to debate with you on this topic because it's never going to end man lol.

IMO, Messi is the greatest footballer to ever live.

 

[mastamind89]

Drogba gifted his former teammates

 

[eiddyfouw]

Pele is not the greatest football of all time?

Answer something for me....

WHAT HAS MESSI DONE WITH ARGENTINA?

Messi is simply the greatest to ever do it...AND HE'S 25!!!!!!!!!

You bring up the world cup, and I hate when people do that. Yeah, because Messi Is the reason Argentina doesn't excell in tournaments. Stop it

And please, don't bring up pele and his world cups in this argument. The competition he played against compared to what Messi has to deal with isn't even close at all. Not even in the same building

I agree Pele's competition wasn't the same as today. But you also forget that Spanish football today is very skewed. Messi DOES NOT play against top notch teams week in, week out.

It's still incredible scoring 86+ goals, and I won't lie, he still shows up in big CL & El Classico matches. But Messi probably has about 10 real matches a season, the rest are just formalities.

 

[JJ Goon]

Congrats to Messi, I would love to see him in the EPL now just to close all arguments, Will never happen though

 

[tramericanjr]

a lot of prisoner of the moments.... Messi scores a bunch of goals in a crappy league,,,, that isnt as defensive ... he doesnt do as much for argentina..... i would liek to see if he could do this on a crapy team, not an allstar team, or even a epl team

 

[sfc415]

Yea, because the EPL has so many good teams to offer tough competition on a weekly basis Let me guess, the typical "have Messi play against Stoke City and see what happens" bull@#$% Most of the time when one of the "upper tier" EPL team loses to a team from the rest of the table it's because of its own mistakes or stupid managerial decisions , not because Norwich and Wigan are tough teams

He doesn't do as much for Argentina? Wow. Please watch the man play before making comments like that :x At the very least he does much more for Argentina than Ronaldo does for Portugal (I'm a Portugal fan so no bias), Rooney does for England, Van Persie does for Netherlands, etc.

 

[Sinner]

#85

#86

 

[abovelegit1]

I agree Pele's competition wasn't the same as today. But you also forget that Spanish football today is very skewed. Messi DOES NOT play against top notch teams week in, week out.
It's still incredible scoring 86+ goals, and I won't lie, he still shows up in big CL & El Classico matches. But Messi probably has about 10 real matches a season, the rest are just formalities.

LOL @ this perspective. Yeah, La Liga is garbage, except...

-It is the strongest league in Europe according to the coefficient.
-Teams like Athletic and Atletico have destroyed United and Chelsea respectively in recent months.
-Spanish players come over to England and become the best players in the league (Mata, Cazorla, Silva, Alonso, Torres, etc.). 2 million rated no-names like Michu come over and lead the EPL in scoring into mid December.
-Spanish teams have performed best in Europe in recent years. 5/8 European semifinalists last season (CL and Europa). Four more into the CL knockout stage this season.
-Top to bottom, it is the most technical league in Europe, and in today's game technique will usually win out over punt&chase sides, physical sides, defensive teams, etc.

So yes, to the ignorant/casual observer it may seem like just because Madrid and Barca are so dominant, the rest of the league must be ****, but it's just not true. The big two are just that good, and the only other side in Europe really on their level is Bayern. Dudes need to start recognizing.

 

[dukeben18]

LOL @ this perspective. Yeah, La Liga is garbage, except...
-It is the strongest league in Europe according to the coefficient.
-Teams like Athletic and Atletico have destroyed United and Chelsea respectively in recent months.
-Spanish players come over to England and become the best players in the league (Mata, Cazorla, Silva, Alonso, Torres, etc.). 2 million rated no-names like Michu come over and lead the EPL in scoring into mid December.
-Spanish teams have performed best in Europe in recent years. 5/8 European semifinalists last season (CL and Europa). Four more into the CL knockout stage this season.
-Top to bottom, it is the most technical league in Europe, and in today's game technique will usually win out over punt&chase sides, physical sides, defensive teams, etc.
So yes, to the ignorant/casual observer it may seem like just because Madrid and Barca are so dominant, the rest of the league must be ****, but it's just not true. The big two are just that good, and the only other side in Europe really on their level is Bayern. Dudes need to start recognizing.

Thank you for this!

Add Kun Aguero to your list as well. Funny how EPL fans bash these guys for scoring against weak La Liga teams and then they score even more in EPL. Michu was 9th place for goals scored in La Liga last year and now look how well he is doing.

 

[quik1987]

So we're gonna pretend like Barcelona is not stacked and Messi doesn't play with Iniesta in a system that's catered to his style of play? Ok.

Take Messi out of Barcelona he can't replicate those numbers. Period.

 

[dlo13]

Wake me up when you guys finish having this debate for the 627th time.

 

[rafool]

People act like Iniesta and Xavi aren't top 5 in the world, not just Barcelona. Take them out and it's a whole different story for Messi (i.e. International play). Barcelona makes Victor Valdez look like a God at times, c'mon.

 

[jada2001retro]

So we're gonna pretend like Barcelona is not stacked and Messi doesn't play with Iniesta in a system that's catered to his style of play? Ok.
Take Messi out of Barcelona he can't replicate those numbers. Period.

People act like Iniesta and Xavi aren't top 5 in the world, not just Barcelona. Take them out and it's a whole different story for Messi (i.e. International play). Barcelona makes Victor Valdez look like a God at times, c'mon.

CORRECT.

 

[rook]

You guys have to remember, Messi has been playing with Xavi and Iniesta for literally his entire barca career though. Chemistry is huge in soccer and these 3 guys know exactly how to play with each other.

But last point I'll make, do you guys see how teams will literally have 3-4 guys marking Messi and he still scores goals...a goal every 66 minutes?

 

[lyonbc1]

So we're gonna pretend like Barcelona is not stacked and Messi doesn't play with Iniesta in a system that's catered to his style of play? Ok.

Take Messi out of Barcelona he can't replicate those numbers. Period.

But what truly great, elite players in this day and age don't play on a perennial power...if they started out on a mediocre or even a great team in a smaller league then they get bought out by a super club team in the EPL or Real/Barca/Bayern level squad.

Of course it helps playing with talent but if you remove Messi from that team they are not gonna be as good, plain and simple. Put him on any top 4 team in any league in the world and he would challenge for the goal title if not the Player of the year award. That's like saying if you put Lebron, Durant, or Kobe on the Wizards they wouldn't go to work and still be one of the best players in the league putting up GREAT stats? Yeah they may not win as much hardware but you can't deny they'd still be a top 5 player in the world.

And those numbers he got this past year haven't been even approached except like 2-3 times in history, so of course not, hell if he stayed at Barca the next 5 yrs I doubt he'd hit those totals again, but this was a once every 20 yrs type of performance.

I'm not gonna say dude is the greatest ever, I'm only 22 and he's definitely the best player I've ever seen play in my time watching the sport (Henry still my favorite since he's the one who got me into football) but he's 25...Drogba was barely playing 1st team football by that age and he's a very good player in his own right....I can't imagine the numbers he's gonna get over the next 6 yrs good lord :x But he's certainly in the conversation for GOAT.

And that world cup nonsense is so overrated to me, its like the people knocking Bron before he got a title, dude dominates everything else a WC title is certainly a tremendous achievement but it ain't on him alone...sometimes coaching disasters (Maradona) and player chemistry just don't gel together well, I think people just see how ridiculous he is for Barca and expect that when he plays for his country, but thats not fair to expect that level of production imo (dude still has 31 goals in 76 apps for country not as a striker which is nothing to scoff at)





On another note....please let these Klass Jan Huntelaar to Arsenal rumors come to fruition.....guy is a flat out scorer

 

[Thierry Henry]

Ozil

Pienaar

Rafael should fire his barber, dude has no lineup


No point in arguing with Jada, his dislike for Messi is real

 

[ironman36]

Rafael should fire his barber, dude has no lineup
 

his cut reminded me of Mitch when he was in the pen, maad boxey

 

[ironman36]

LOL @ this perspective. Yeah, La Liga is garbage, except...
-It is the strongest league in Europe according to the coefficient.
-Teams like Athletic and Atletico have destroyed United and Chelsea respectively in recent months.
-Spanish players come over to England and become the best players in the league (Mata, Cazorla, Silva, Alonso, Torres, etc.). 2 million rated no-names like Michu come over and lead the EPL in scoring into mid December.
-Spanish teams have performed best in Europe in recent years. 5/8 European semifinalists last season (CL and Europa). Four more into the CL knockout stage this season.
-Top to bottom, it is the most technical league in Europe, and in today's game technique will usually win out over punt&chase sides, physical sides, defensive teams, etc.
So yes, to the ignorant/casual observer it may seem like just because Madrid and Barca are so dominant, the rest of the league must be ****, but it's just not true. The big two are just that good, and the only other side in Europe really on their level is Bayern. Dudes need to start recognizing.

lulz, why don't you tell em what happens to them when they go over the Serie A homie.....

Anyway comparing leagues is such a waste of time, bottom line is that Champions League is what it's all about, clubs make more money during the short tournament than they do all year playing in their domestic leagues, they are taking in so much money and are constantly going to be more competitive than the smaller clubs which will never be able to compete unless a sheik comes through to buy them up. Teams like Athletic and Atletico will pop up every once in a while and be good, but then they eventually sell their talent (Falcao) and go back in hiding (Villareal), this whole discussion about which league is the best is a joke, especially because upsets happen all the time and you can't really quantify this international game. It's all about the money and I bet that soon Europa L. and Champions L. will be lumped together to form somekind of supereuropean league, leaving small clubs out in the cold.

 

[jada2001retro]

Ozil
Pienaar
Rafael should fire his barber, dude has no lineup
No point in arguing with Jada, his dislike for Messi is real

It hurts when someone tells you the man you want to make love to on a soccer ball isn't as good as you think he is, huh?

 

[eiddyfouw]

I agree Pele's competition wasn't the same as today. But you also forget that Spanish football today is very skewed. Messi DOES NOT play against top notch teams week in, week out.
It's still incredible scoring 86+ goals, and I won't lie, he still shows up in big CL & El Classico matches. But Messi probably has about 10 real matches a season, the rest are just formalities.

LOL @ this perspective. Yeah, La Liga is garbage, except...

-It is the strongest league in Europe according to the coefficient.
-Teams like Athletic and Atletico have destroyed United and Chelsea respectively in recent months.
-Spanish players come over to England and become the best players in the league (Mata, Cazorla, Silva, Alonso, Torres, etc.). 2 million rated no-names like Michu come over and lead the EPL in scoring into mid December.
-Spanish teams have performed best in Europe in recent years. 5/8 European semifinalists last season (CL and Europa). Four more into the CL knockout stage this season.
-Top to bottom, it is the most technical league in Europe, and in today's game technique will usually win out over punt&chase sides, physical sides, defensive teams, etc.

So yes, to the ignorant/casual observer it may seem like just because Madrid and Barca are so dominant, the rest of the league must be ****, but it's just not true. The big two are just that good, and the only other side in Europe really on their level is Bayern. Dudes need to start recognizing.

-While it may be the strongest league, it is not the most competitive (Bundesliga over the past 5 years)
-While it is true, Athletic and Atletico have beaten United and Chelsea; let's face it, the top of the EPL hasn't been this weak in years. So that's really nothing to go by. United, Chelsea, City, Arsenal have all played very poorly compared to recent form.
-Bayern maybe on that level this season, but they really haven't been that consistent in recent years.
-Even though you're saying players like Mata (currently potentially the best in his role, but will need to finish the season that way), Silva (absolutely sensational season last year but ran out of steam), Alonso was the best passer in his position), and Torres (when he FIRST arrived at Liverpool was the best finisher, and then Drogba came along and killed that with consistency). That still doesn't exactly directly translate to La Liga being a better league.

However, I would be interested to see head to head stats on English clubs vs Spanish clubs overall who's won more (if anyone knows, please post, I'm interested to see the figures) over a long period of time out of curiosity.

But I'm gonna fall back on this debate since it seems like we're beating a dead horse according to recent replies...

 

[demps]

It hurts when someone tells you the man you want to make love to on a soccer ball isn't as good as you think he is, huh?

just shut up.