Thread about Jesus - Questions, Bible Verses and Prayer Requests

[girlthatsblanco]

Bro u obviously feel some type of way about that lazy comment I made so lemme apologize for that, it was a poor choice of words on my part. you can debunk just about anything these days especially the topic at hand if that's what u wanna look for. The ability to separate fact from fiction escapes many ppl. But you're out here throwing out specific numbers with nothing to back it claiming to have proved something no archeologist or theologian has been able to prove to date so forgive me if I take what you say with a grain of salt. I'm sure you feel the same tho. Agree to disagree. Carry on

First, I will try to address all of your and others responses as fast as I can, but I am working most of the day so it will most likely not be a quick turnaround. I'm more irritated by the post that have been made to discredit the Bible and that is not just directed at you. I may be wrong, but this is how I see it. A person goes to Google or reads some book/article or watches a video that is supposed to discredit the Bible. Then, that person takes what they have found as truth and comes on social media to proclaim it to be true. My problem is they failed to cross check that information they found. They in essence don't hold that same info to the same scrutiny as they do with the Bible. Then when someone comes out and discredits it or the clear up a misquoted or misinterpreted scripture, the skeptic is like, ok I''ll find something else. It seems like they could care less about their so called "discovery" being proven as false. Example,James Cameron made a book and a film and it aired on the Discovery channel a few years back. He argued that the tomb and burial box of Jesus had been found. From this “discovery” the conclusion was drawn that Jesus had not risen from the dead. What the program failed to say is that the box had been discovered years earlier and that it had already been proven not to be Christ’s burial box. No apology or statement saying I got it wrong. All I'm saying is that a lot people in this thread have not done their due diligence. You even said it yourself. There is plenty of info out their that supports both sides. Which I agree with. It seems that some don't use any discernment though. As far as what language Jesus spoke, He can speak any language. He is God as man. But while he was on earth he most like spoke Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic due to the region He was in.
The number of archeological findings I gave can be researched on your own. But here are some:
Dead Sea Scrolls: One of the most important finds of in the field of biblical archaeology is the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls in 1947 in the Qumran area on the northwest shore of the Dead Sea. There are approximately 900 documents and fragments that comprise the find. The scrolls predate A.D. 100 and include a complete copy of the book of Isaiah. The significance of the find is the age of the documents and the astonishing lack of variants to documents that have been most trustworthy such as the Masoretic Text, Codex Vaticanus and the Codex Sinaiticus. The vast majority of the variants (about 99 percent) are punctuation or spelling errors. Incredibly, none of the variants changed the meaning of the text, nor did they contain any significant theological differences. This gives us the assurance that the text we have today in our Bible is the same as the early church had two thousand years ago. No other secular manuscripts can make the same claim.

Tel Dan Inscription: This stone tablet contains an inscription that is the first reference to the Davidic dynasty outside of the Bible. It was erected by Hazael, king of Aram, which is present-day Syria. The inscription makes reference to a military victory and corresponds to the biblical account in 2 Chronicles 22. This inscription dates to the 9th century B.C., thus giving us accurate dating to the Davidic dynasty as well verifying its existence. This is the only extra-biblical reference to the House of David that has been discovered to date.

Caiaphas Ossuary: An ossuary is a stone or pottery box in which the remains of a deceased person are buried (an ancient casket). The Caiaphas Ossuary bears the inscription “Yeosef bar Qafa” and is dated to the second temple period. Yeosef (Joseph) was the son of Caiaphas. This verifies that there was a high priest at the time of Jesus and his name was Caiaphas. Caiaphas was the priest that presided over the false trial of Jesus (Matthew 26:57-67).

Crucified Man: This is the remains of a full skeleton of a man crucified in the first century. The foot bone contains a bent crucifixion nail. There have been those that argued that the crucifixion of Christ was a hoax because that was not a form of capital punishment in Christ’s time. These remains verify that crucifixion was being done and that the crucifixion of Jesus was done exactly as outlined in the biblical narrative.

Ketef Hinnom Amulets: In 1979, two silver scrolls that were worn as amulets were found in a tomb at Ketef Hinnom, overlooking the Hinnom Valley, where they had been placed around the 7th century B.C. The delicate process of unrolling the scrolls while developing a method that would prevent them from disintegrating took three years. Brief as they are, the amulets rank as the oldest surviving texts from the Hebrew Bible. Upon unrolling the amulets, biblical archeologists found two inscriptions of significance. One is a temple priest blessing from the book of Numbers: “The Lord bless you and protect you. The Lord make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you. The Lord lift up his countenance to you and give you peace” (Numbers 6:24-26). The other is the tetragrammaton YHWH, the name of the Lord, from which we get the English Jehovah. The amulets predate the Dead Sea Scrolls by 500 years and are the oldest known example of the Lord’s name in writing.

House of God Ostracon: Ostraca—writings on pottery—are common finds in archeological digs. The House of God Ostracon was found in Arad, a Canaanite city in the Negev. Over 100 pieces of ostraca were found and have been dated to the early part of the 6th Century BC. Of significance are the references to the temple in Jerusalem and to names of people that are recorded in Scripture. This not only helps to date the temple, but it verifies the existence of people listed in the biblical text.

Pilate Inscription: This stone tablet was found in Caesarea on the Mediterranean coast. The tablet was found in the theater of Caesarea and bears an inscription mentioning the name of Pontius Pilate the procurator of Judea, and the Tiberium, which was an edifice built in honor of the Emperor Tiberius by Pilate. There has been much written to discredit the biblical narrative in regard to the existence of Pilate; this tablet clearly says that it was from "Pontius Pilate, Prefect of Judea" and verifies that he was a person that lived during the time of Jesus, exactly as written in the biblical narrative.

You can also look at the prophecies in the Bible concerning Israel and how some have been fulfilled.

Like I said before, I choose to believe the Bible because it is a collection of HISTORICAL documents written by eyewitnesses during the lifetime of other eyewitnesses. They report supernatural events that took place in fulfilment of specific prophecies and claimed that their writings are divine rather than human in origin. Sorry for the long post

 

[girlthatsblanco]

Please don't forget to address this blanco

I got you later today.

 

[girlthatsblanco]

And I encourage the skeptics of the Bible to try reading it as a history book. Then, cross check what the Bible says with other historical documents and archeological findings. You still have to accept Christ as your Savior to enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but reading the Word that way may answer some of your questions.

 

[phuzzy badpheet]

And I encourage the skeptics of the Bible to try reading it as a history book. Then, cross check what the Bible says with other historical documents and archeological findings. You still have to accept Christ as your Savior to enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but reading the Word that way may answer some of your questions.

Reading the word as a history book as you've suggested, will lead you to being pretty much a moron, someone easily mislead, then being able to be sold a bad bill of goods. Example, the earth is 4 billion years old, and the bible suggests otherwise.

Why is that?

 

[girlthatsblanco]

Reading the word as a history book as you've suggested, will lead you to being pretty much a moron, someone easily mislead, then being able to be sold a bad bill of goods. Example, the earth is 4 billion years old, and the bible suggests otherwise.

Why is that?

The real question is why do you believe the world to be 4 billion years old?

 

[phuzzy badpheet]

The real question is why do you believe the world to be 4 billion years old?

We KNOW that the earth is over four billion years old. You do know that there are ways of measuring such things, don't you? Tried and true methods, those much more reliable than anything the bible suggests.

That should answer your question, now answer mine.

Galileo proved that the sun does not revolve around the earth, as the bible suggests that it does.

Who was right, the god in the bible, or Galileo?

 

[girlthatsblanco]

Please don't forget to address this blanco

Let me clarify what I meant concerning predestination and free will cause we are not on the same page. As far as predestination, you are correct. We are predestined/predetermined, but not in the sense that it seems that you are claiming. Romans 8:29-30 tells us, “For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.” Ephesians 1:5 and 11 declare, “He predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will…In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will.”. The words translated “predestined” in the Scriptures referenced above are from the Greek word proorizo, which carries the meaning of “determine beforehand,” “ordain,” “to decide upon ahead of time.” So, predestination is God determining certain things to occur ahead of time. What did God determine ahead of time? According to Romans 8:29-30, God predetermined that certain individuals would be conformed to the likeness of His Son, be called, justified, and glorified. Essentially, God predetermines that certain individuals will be saved. Numerous scriptures refer to believers in Christ being chosen (Matthew 24:22, 31; Mark 13:20, 27; Romans 8:33, 9:11, 11:5-7, 28; Ephesians 1:11; Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4; 1 Timothy 5:21; 2 Timothy 2:10; Titus 1:1; 1 Peter 1:1-2, 2:9; 2 Peter 1:10). Predestination is the biblical doctrine that God in His sovereignty chooses certain individuals to be saved. Sounds unfair huh? Why does God choose some, but not others?The important thing to remember is that no one deserves to be saved. We have all sinned (Romans 3:23), and are all worthy of eternal punishment (Romans 6:23). As a result, God would be perfectly just in allowing all of us to spend eternity in hell. However, God chooses to save some of us. He is not being unfair to those who are not chosen, because they are receiving what they deserve. God’s choosing to be gracious to some is not unfair to the others. No one deserves anything from God; therefore, no one can object if he does not receive anything from God. An illustration would be a man randomly handing out money to five people in a crowd of twenty. Would the fifteen people who did not receive money be upset? Probably so. Do they have a right to be upset? No, they do not. Why? Because the man did not owe anyone money. He simply decided to be gracious to some. On the flip side all human beings have the choice (free will) to accept Christ. The Bible says that we have the choice. All who believe in Jesus Christ will be saved (John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10). The Bible never describes God rejecting anyone who believes in Him or turning away anyone who is seeking Him (Deuteronomy 4:29). Somehow, in the mystery of God, predestination works hand-in-hand with a person being drawn by God (John 6:44) and believing unto salvation (Romans 1:16). And again you are correct in a sense by saying God is logical. He created it. I disagreed with you because it sounds like you are using human logic and reasoning to disprove the supernatural. But back to predetermined/predestination. After reading what I posted above, Why do you choose to not believe the Bible and not accept Christ as your Savior? Honest question. Is it because you can't?

 

[girlthatsblanco]

We KNOW that the earth is over four billion years old. You do know that there are ways of measuring such things, don't you? Tried and true methods, those much more reliable than anything the bible suggests.

That should answer your question, now answer mine.

Galileo proved that the sun does not revolve around the earth, as the bible suggests that it does.

Who was right, the god in the bible, or Galileo?

It's interesting that you used the phrase "tried and true." You said the earth is 4 billion years old then said over 4 billion. Which is it? How do you know this? Because of scientists? Why is that some scientists say 4 billion years while others say 14 billion years old? That's a 10 billion year buffer. But then again according to you ther are methods that are tried and true in measuring the age of the earth.....kind of lol.

Plus I already answered your question concerning Galileo. You know where I stand. I even posted scripture to back it up, which you claim I inserted my own text...smh but never showed where I inserted my own words into scripture. Then I gave you the translation of the original text that confirmed that the Bible speaking nothing of a flat earth which you glossed over.

 

[girlthatsblanco]

I will say it again. The Bible is a collection of HISTORICAL documents, not scientific text. So please don't use science to disprove the Bible. Although, when the Bible does refer to scientific matters it does not contradict. And it's interesting how it speaks of these things waaaaay before scientists "discovered" them.


Time, Space and Matter had a Beginning (Genesis 1:1; John 1:1; Hebrews 11:3; Titus 1:2)

Stars are Uncountable and Distinct (Jeremiah 33:22; 1 Corinthians 15:41)

Hydrologic Cycle (Job 36:27-28; 26:8; Ecclesiastes 1:7)

Genetic Classification (Code) (Genesis 1:21-31, 7:1-16; 1 Corinthians 15:38-39)

Blood as Life Source to Flesh (Leviticus 17:11)

Global Wind Patterns (Ecclesiastes 1:6)

Global Ocean Currents (Psalms 8:

Light has Motion (Job 38:19-20)

Air has Weight (Job 28:25)

Principles of Quarantine, Sterilization and Waste Disposal (Leviticus 12-15; Numbers 19)

2nd Law of Thermodynamics (entropy) (Psalm 102:25-26; Isaiah 51:6; Matthew 24:35; Romans 8:20-22; 1 John 2:17)

 

[C.Magneto]

Guess i'll throw this out there

Jesus and his followers "would've" spoke aramaic ...... not ONE piece of evidence has ever been found of the gospels or anything circa that time frame being in aramaic. Therefore any accounts you would have been nearly 100-200 years after the supposed events of christ, on top of that they wouldve had to be translated as well. So much for coming directly from the mouth of god.

Conveniently as it's been stated many times before everything has been found in greek. Which is ever more ironic because why would the greeks keep a detailed record of someone they didnt want to exist? These are the same greeks who have a responsibility for stealing and murdering to get their way.

The bible as a historical book....

"Sublime mythology makes for grotesque history"

 

[girlthatsblanco]

Guess i'll throw this out there

Jesus and his followers "would've" spoke aramaic ...... not ONE piece of evidence has ever been found of the gospels or anything circa that time frame being in aramaic. Therefore any accounts you would have been nearly 100-200 years after the supposed events of christ, on top of that they wouldve had to be translated as well. So much for coming directly from the mouth of god.

Conveniently as it's been stated many times before everything has been found in greek. Which is ever more ironic because why would the greeks keep a detailed record of someone they didnt want to exist? These are the same greeks who have a responsibility for stealing and murdering to get their way.


The bible as a historical book....


"Sublime mythology makes for grotesque history"

Not true. Portions of Daniel and Ezra are in Aramaic. Aramaic words spoken by Jesus: talitha koum (Mark 5:41); ephphatha (Mark 7:34); eloi eloi lama sabachthani (Matthew 27:46; Mark 15:34); abba (Mark 14:36). There is translation software you can use to confirm this. Plus Christians claim that the Bible was completed before the end of the first century or at the depending of how you date the Book of Revelation. We have copies of the New Testament that date back to 120 AD. No they are not the originals, but these copies were around during the time of the originals. If the copies we have were false, wouldn't the have been disputed a long time ago? Oh and these copies were dated similar to methods that Phuzzy posted. They''re tried and true in measuring these types of things lol

 

[auszero]

It's interesting that you used the phrase "tried and true." You said the earth is 4 billion years old then said over 4 billion. Which is it? How do you know this? Because of scientists? Why is that some scientists say 4 billion years while others say 14 billion years old? That's a 10 billion year buffer. But then again according to you ther are methods that are tried and true in measuring the age of the earth.....kind of lol.

Scientists don't think the Earth is 14 billion years old. They know the age of the universe is about 14 billions years old by measuring the expansion of the universe. We know the Earth is about 4 billion years old through carbon dating. Two different ages. There is no "10 billion year buffer" on the age of the Earth.

 

[doublemesh96]

I may be wrong, but this is how I see it. A person goes to Google or reads some book/article or watches a video that is supposed to discredit the Bible. Then, that person takes what they have found as truth and comes on social media to proclaim it to be true. My problem is they failed to cross check that information they found. They in essence don't hold that same info to the same scrutiny as they do with the Bible. Then when someone comes out and discredits it or the clear up a misquoted or misinterpreted scripture, the skeptic is like, ok I''ll find something else. It seems like they could care less about their so called "discovery" being proven as false.

This may be true for some but as I said before I take all info into account before drawing any conclusions and I question EVERYTHING I don't take anybody's word as gospel. If information is presented I go to the source look at both sides then formulate my conclusion using logic and intuitive common sense. For me to watch a YouTube video and run around preaching it as truth would be no better than somebody reading the bible and doing so. I'm an advocate of truth and I read actual books. I don't just limit myself to 1 book and call it the end all be all. And IMHO the bible is a mash up of different accounts some made up by man to be used as a tool to control masses and keep ppl subservient using human beings good nature, ignorance, and guilt against them. You brought up the Dead Sea scrolls so you yourself should know that the bible only contains a small fraction of the actual teachings of the Christ. Have you researched king James and his intent behind things?Josephus? Maitreya? There's a lot to be taken into account here. More than you or I know. And I'm perfectly comfortable saying I don't know instead of believing blindly in something that just doesn't sit right with me intuitively. As I said before I bend my knee to the truth and no other and choose to take an apophatic approach to things. You believe in the devil don't you? How are you so sure you haven't been deceived?

 

[bradnsu]

A person goes to Google or reads some book/article or watches a video that is supposed to discredit the Bible. Then, that person takes what they have found as truth and comes on social media to proclaim it to be true. My problem is they failed to cross check that information they found.

TRULY Bruh.....Its just not dealing with religion but anything people these days believe anything man as I said in my last post this is not the AGE OF INFORMATION its the AGE OF DECEPTION....People these days will question the bible & GOD but will believe what some random wacko says they never met in their life on social media or YOUTUBE....

 

[C.Magneto]

Not true. Portions of Daniel and Ezra are in Aramaic. Aramaic words spoken by Jesus: talitha koum (Mark 5:41); ephphatha (Mark 7:34); eloi eloi lama sabachthani (Matthew 27:46; Mark 15:34); abba (Mark 14:36). There is translation software you can use to confirm this. Plus Christians claim that the Bible was completed before the end of the first century or at the depending of how you date the Book of Revelation. We have copies of the New Testament that date back to 120 AD. No they are not the originals, but these copies were around during the time of the originals. If the copies we have were false, wouldn't the have been disputed a long time ago? Oh and these copies were dated similar to methods that Phuzzy posted. They''re tried and true in measuring these types of things lol

Quoting scripture doesn't provide historical proof.

And people have been disputing it. They've been saying it was fraud since it came out. Why do you think the romans went around burning up everything and killing anyone who called the bible for what it was.

So you admit you guys dont have the original copies which easliy could mean you dont have the original history and you wanna trust the likes of :

Emperor Constantine I:

-had his first son executed

-had eldest son strangled

-one of his wifes executed

-one of his wifes boiled alive

King James:

-had bible translators murdered.

-known homosexual

-murdered multiple lovers

Pope John XII 

-Raped virgins and widows

-lived with his father's wife

-Made the papal palace a brothel

-Was murdered in the act of adultery by the husband

I could go on all day about some of the most foul human beings known to man who put together christianity.

It's even more disheartening to see that as a black man you've been robbed of your mental faculties so much that you think your slave owner would actually give you the word of god. I'll say to you what i said to other guy in here. When you accept christianity as the salvation of your soul, you accept the european as your saviour. We had high sciences and spirituality systems going on long before jesus was beaten in to us. Without the european introducing christianity to us chances are we wouldve never came across it. 

So just from a historical perspective show me one tangible thing that christians can point out proving the physical existence of christ (and im not requesting literature)

staff of moses

cross christ was crucified on

sword of destiny

ark of the covenant 

the holy grail 

noah's ark

tablets of the 10 commandments

Anything? I promise you wont find it because the bible always was and has been nothing more then a literary creation. And if you'd like to stay in the realm of literary devices i can provide you texts, passages, that far predate the bible. And the texts are damn near so Identical if two students turned them in for school someone is getting in trouble for cheating.

 

[girlthatsblanco]

Quoting scripture doesn't provide historical proof.


And people have been disputing it. They've been saying it was fraud since it came out. Why do you think the romans went around burning up everything and killing anyone who called the bible for what it was.

So you admit you guys dont have the original copies which easliy could mean you dont have the original history and you wanna trust the likes of :

Emperor Constantine I:
-had his first son executed
-had eldest son strangled
-one of his wifes executed
-one of his wifes boiled alive


King James:
-had bible translators murdered.
-known homosexual
-murdered multiple lovers


Pope John XII 
-Raped virgins and widows
-lived with his father's wife
-Made the papal palace a brothel
-Was murdered in the act of adultery by the husband



I could go on all day about some of the most foul human beings known to man who put together christianity.


It's even more disheartening to see that as a black man you've been robbed of your mental faculties so much that you think your slave owner would actually give you the word of god. I'll say to you what i said to other guy in here. When you accept christianity as the salvation of your soul, you accept the european as your saviour. We had high sciences and spirituality systems going on long before jesus was beaten in to us. Without the european introducing christianity to us chances are we wouldve never came across it. 


So just from a historical perspective show me one tangible thing that christians can point out proving the physical existence of christ (and im not requesting literature)

staff of moses
cross christ was crucified on
sword of destiny
ark of the covenant 
the holy grail 
noah's ark
tablets of the 10 commandments

Anything? I promise you wont find it because the bible always was and has been nothing more then a literary creation. And if you'd like to stay in the realm of literary devices i can provide you texts, passages, that far predate the bible. And the texts are damn near so Identical if two students turned them in for school someone is getting in trouble for cheating.

When I get off work this evening I will address all of this. Just letting you know because I won't be on here for a while. My previous post were during my lunch and I don't want people thinking I'm avoiding them.

 

[C.Magneto]

TRULY Bruh.....Its just not dealing with religion but anything people these days believe anything man as I said in my last post this is not the AGE OF INFORMATION its the AGE OF DECEPTION....People these days will question the bible & GOD but will believe what some random wacko says they never met in their life on social media or YOUTUBE....

So how do you convert the non-believers?

There is no historical proof for what you're saying. You have to take an EXTREME amount of faith to accept the majority of christianity.

So you talk about the age of information/deception. What new world religion is coming along that would deceive the masses? Christianity has been the world largest religion for almost 2,000 years now. Thinking rationally it would seem that christianity has had the masses deceived and the age of information is to show that. The thing about a lie is the longer it's told the more difficult it is to maintain. Clearly christians are struggling to maintain the lie. If you chose to believe that's your personal decision. However, from a historical and archaeological perspective it's quickly losing ground to stand on.

Earlier someone asked why are people coming in here to bash the bible etc. The truth is the truth. Historically i cant think of a situation in mass where christians have been persecuted. No one is saying accept the truth or burn for ever!! Yet, you guys have a history of killing and murdering people when they dont convert. If that's not brainwashing i dont know what is.

 

[mrdozo]

[/quote]

Quoting scripture doesn't provide historical proof.


And people have been disputing it. They've been saying it was fraud since it came out. Why do you think the romans went around burning up everything and killing anyone who called the bible for what it was.

So you admit you guys dont have the original copies which easliy could mean you dont have the original history and you wanna trust the likes of :

Emperor Constantine I:
-had his first son executed
-had eldest son strangled
-one of his wifes executed
-one of his wifes boiled alive


King James:
-had bible translators murdered.
-known homosexual
-murdered multiple lovers


Pope John XII 
-Raped virgins and widows
-lived with his father's wife
-Made the papal palace a brothel
-Was murdered in the act of adultery by the husband



I could go on all day about some of the most foul human beings known to man who put together christianity.


It's even more disheartening to see that as a black man you've been robbed of your mental faculties so much that you think your slave owner would actually give you the word of god. I'll say to you what i said to other guy in here. When you accept christianity as the salvation of your soul, you accept the european as your saviour. We had high sciences and spirituality systems going on long before jesus was beaten in to us. Without the european introducing christianity to us chances are we wouldve never came across it. 


So just from a historical perspective show me one tangible thing that christians can point out proving the physical existence of christ (and im not requesting literature)

staff of moses
cross christ was crucified on
sword of destiny
ark of the covenant 
the holy grail 
noah's ark
tablets of the 10 commandments

Anything? I promise you wont find it because the bible always was and has been nothing more then a literary creation. And if you'd like to stay in the realm of literary devices i can provide you texts, passages, that far predate the bible. And the texts are damn near so Identical if two students turned them in for school someone is getting in trouble for cheating.

?????
You want proof, but really, what we all need is faith.
A staff will prove Jesus died and resurrected? no
Find the same cross Jesus died on? Really? Thousands of years later you think that piece of wood will be found?
The Pope (a position thats not in the Bible), Constantine and James have nothing to do with what Jesus did. He did for you and I, everyone. Period.

You dont believe it? Fine, thats your choice. But dont post in here, and say The Bible is false. If thats what you believe, fine, but post that somewhere else.
You post a lot in here for someone who does not believe in Jesus and The Bible.

You dont believe it, we get it. Now move on.

 

[blastercombo]

You do see the conflict with saying predestination and choice going hand and hand correct? No matter how you cut it with you're predestined to do something you DO NOT have a choice. In essence according to the bible God knowing EVERYTHING that will take place infinatly. With that said why would your life be a mystery to him? Your life and everything you do is already chosen to happen by God. If someone goes to hell, God made them to go to hell. If a child is murdered, God WANTED that child to die.

God CANNOT be all powerful and perfection without knowing and chosen what you have and will do. So either God does OR he is not all powerful.

I cannot accept a savior because we aren't being saved by an enemy. The being that is "saving" you is the same one who threatens you with eternal fire and burning. The savior that asks you to stay away from temptation is the same being that creates the temptation. The savior the wants to keep you away from the devil (assuming one exists) is the same being that knowingly created it for the purpose of entrapping us. What sense does that all make? Your God wants to save you from him.

 

[C.Magneto]

?????
You want proof, but really, what we all need is faith.
A staff will prove Jesus died and resurrected? no
Find the same cross Jesus died on? Really? Thousands of years later you think that piece of wood will be found?
The Pope (a position thats not in the Bible), Constantine and James have nothing to do with what Jesus did. He did for you and I, everyone. Period.

You dont believe it? Fine, thats your choice. But dont post in here, and say The Bible is false. If thats what you believe, fine, but post that somewhere else.
You post a lot in here for someone who does not believe in Jesus and The Bible.

You dont believe it, we get it. Now move on.[/quote]
You're right man. I'm just trying to possibly save some of my people from mental and spiritual slavery.
[table][tr][td]
◄  John 1:1 ►
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In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

British Dictionary definitions for cretin

[h2]cretin[/h2]

/ˈkrɛtɪn/

noun 
1.
(old-fashioned) a person afflicted with cretinism

2.
(offensive) a person considered to be extremely stupid

Derived Forms

cretinoid, adjective 
cretinous, adjectiv

Word Origin

C18: from French crétin, from Swiss French crestin, from Latin ChrīstiānusChristian, alluding to the humanity of such people, despite their handicaps

 

[phuzzy badpheet]

It's interesting that you used the phrase "tried and true." You said the earth is 4 billion years old then said over 4 billion. Which is it? How do you know this? Because of scientists? Why is that some scientists say 4 billion years while others say 14 billion years old? That's a 10 billion year buffer. But then again according to you ther are methods that are tried and true in measuring the age of the earth.....kind of lol.

Plus I already answered your question concerning Galileo. You know where I stand. I even posted scripture to back it up, which you claim I inserted my own text...smh but never showed where I inserted my own words into scripture. Then I gave you the translation of the original text that confirmed that the Bible speaking nothing of a flat earth which you glossed over.

I said the earth is four billion years old, then said over four, that's right. The number is four billion six, yet that is a problem for you to deal with?

You really want to argue that?

Okay, here is what is used to measure time, I am certain that you may have heard of it, 

[img]http://www.wasdarwinright.com/images/geolog1.gif[/img]

now show us what is used to measure time in the Bible.

When you do that, then tell us what sources were used to tell you how the sun revolved around the earth.

You did NOT respond about Galileo, you responded about the world being flat.

Galileo found that the Earth revolved around the sun, not otherwise as God in the bible commanded.

Was God wrong, and Galileo right?

Why did the church try and prevent Galileo from bringing forth such information?

Is it the same reason that you are now running and ducking?

…to abstain completely from teaching or defending this doctrine and opinion or from discussing it... to abandon completely... the opinion that the sun stands still at the center of the world and the earth moves, and henceforth not to hold, teach, or defend it in any way whatever, either orally or in writing.

— The Inquisition's injunction against Galileo, 1616.[sup][6[/sup]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei

 

[mrdozo]

You do see the conflict with saying predestination and choice going hand and hand correct? No matter how you cut it with you're predestined to do something you DO NOT have a choice. In essence according to the bible God knowing EVERYTHING that will take place infinatly. With that said why would your life be a mystery to him? Your life and everything you do is already chosen to happen by God. If someone goes to hell, God made them to go to hell. If a child is murdered, God WANTED that child to die.

God CANNOT be all powerful and perfection without knowing and chosen what you have and will do. So either God does OR he is not all powerful.

I cannot accept a savior because we aren't being saved by an enemy. The being that is "saving" you is the same one who threatens you with eternal fire and burning. The savior that asks you to stay away from temptation is the same being that creates the temptation. The savior the wants to keep you away from the devil (assuming one exists) is the same being that knowingly created it for the purpose of entrapping us. What sense does that all make? Your God wants to save you from him.

God LETS us make our decisions. He doesnt make us do anything. And nothing is a mystery to Him, as he knows all.
God is the savior, who saves us from the devil and ourselves. We are naturally evil, sinful. Maybe you can say God "entrapped" us. He only gave us two options, Hell aka the lake of fire and Heaven, the greatest most amazing dwelling place that is for anyone and will be perfect. We cant even fathom how great Heaven is because we've never witnessed it.

And for the record, its not a sin to be tempted. Its a sin to go thru with that temptation.

 

[doublemesh96]

If "god" is all knowing and allows us to make decisions why bother advising us at all with his word in the bible if he already knows that we will sin?

 

[phuzzy badpheet]

God LETS us make our decisions. He doesnt make us do anything. And nothing is a mystery to Him, as he knows all.
God is the savior, who saves us from the devil and ourselves. We are naturally evil, sinful. Maybe you can say God "entrapped" us. He only gave us two options, Hell aka the lake of fire and Heaven, the greatest most amazing dwelling place that is for anyone and will be perfect. We cant even fathom how great Heaven is because we've never witnessed it.

And for the record, its not a sin to be tempted. Its a sin to go thru with that temptation.

God knows all, yet didn't know that the earth revolved around the sun.

How convenient.

You'd be better off by saying that the God in the bible was flawed, and then that the one we have yet to discover, is the real deal.

 

[mrdozo]

God knows all, yet didn't know that the earth revolved around the sun.

How convenient.

You'd be better off by saying that the God in the bible was flawed, and then that the one we have yet to discover, is the real deal.

He's the architect man, of course he knows all the ins and outs of his own creation. The god in the Bible is the same god who lives today. Hes def the "real deal".