Was MJ an average athlete??

[urbetterthenme]

Where to start....of course MJ was a ridiculous athlete. Bill was messing around. What makes MJ the best in my mind is the way that he changed his game when his athletic gifts started diminishing. The question we should ask is was he simply a great athlete or was he a freak of nature? There's a difference. Kobe is a top flight athlete. Lebron is a freak of nature. Nate Robinson is a freak of nature. Allen Iverson is a freak of nature. Shaq was a freak of nature. There's a difference.

As far as the other points, I'm taking Kareem over Hakeem all day, every day, and twice on Sunday. I love Bird but he's not in my top five. Kobe is an all time great but I have trouble forgiving him for the finals loss to the Pistons. You had Shaq being covered by Ben Wallace. I don't care if the press is raving about Tayshaun's defense on you. Give the ball to Shaq and let him destroy Ben. I also fault him for the loss to OKC in the playoffs. That team could have won. They had two dominant seven footers WHO COULD SHOOT FREETHROWS!!! They give the ball to Andrew, they win that series. Point blank. OKC couldn't stop him. What happened in the closing moments of games in that series? Hero basketball. Taking 25 footers in the fourth when you've been dominating the game inside(yeah I'm still trying to get over it

) Kobe is a fantastic player but I think his competitive nature sometimes clouds his decision making on the court.

This old man's starting five....

Magic
MJ
Bron
Duncan
Kareem/Motivated Shaq

Don't get me wrong. I think Hakeem had the best footwork of any center I've ever seen. I'm still taking Kareem and that unstoppable move.

LOL you sound bitter bruh. Shaq had issues vs Ben. I mean he had 14 points in game 3 LOL

 

[airuphere23]

Was this guy eem alive to watch the Bulls championship seasons when MJ actually played? He dominated when he was with the Bulls...

da hell are you talking about? It was a question I posed because I found it shocking that someone like Bill Walton could say that. I wondered where this perception came from, and if people agreed with Bill...it has nothing to do with if I watched Jordan play in his prime..(which I have actually)

 

[shoeking2101]

Posting vertical measurements of NBA players is sooo stupid and pointless.

Also, that bird pic doesn't do anything to prove he was a great athlete. The angle of the photograph makes him look like he's getting higher than he actually is and even then, he still isn't getting that high in that picture.

 

[Mamba4life]

LOL you sound bitter bruh. Shaq had issues vs Ben. I mean he had 14 points in game 3 LOL

Issues? What about the other four? Even with that one, he averaged 26 and 11 shooting 63%. Even the game when he had 14 points, he shot 50%. Kobe averaged 22 shooting 38% from the floor and 17% from three. Look at the shot attemps that series. Game 1.. Shaq 34 points on 16 shots. Kobe 25 points on 27 shots. Yeah...Shaq had issues all right. They weren't with Ben. Kobe was crap that series. They feed Shaq, they have a MUCH better chance of winning.

Don't believe me? http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2004_finals.html

 

[urbetterthenme]

Issues? What about the other four? Even with that one, he averaged 26 and 11 shooting 63%. Even the game when he had 14 points, he shot 50%. Kobe averaged 22 shooting 38% from the floor and 17% from three. Look at the shot attemps that series. Game 1.. Shaq 34 points on 16 shots. Kobe 25 points on 27 shots. Yeah...Shaq had issues all right. They weren't with Ben. Kobe was crap that series. They feed Shaq, they have a MUCH better chance of winning.

Don't believe me? http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2004_finals.html

Tayshaun locked that boi up bruh

 

[ryanjumpman420]

Posting vertical measurements of NBA players is sooo stupid and pointless.

Also, that bird pic doesn't do anything to prove he was a great athlete. The angle of the photograph makes him look like he's getting higher than he actually is and even then, he still isn't getting that high in that picture.

U must be smokin crack if u don't think Larry Bird was a great athlete.

 

[ryanjumpman420]

As far as playing, I didn't care who guarded me - red, yellow, black. I just didn't want a white guy guarding me, because it's disrespect to my game.
- Larry Bird

 

[osh kosh bosh]

IMO Bird was a pretty clearly above average athlete at the small forward position pre back injury.

 

[blastercombo]

IMO Bird was a pretty clearly above average athlete at the small forward position pre back injury.

If I remeber correctly bird himself said he wasn't anything extraordinary from a physical standpoint. Said he was just a good basketball player.

Bird God

 

[shoeking2101]

U must be smokin crack if u don't think Larry Bird was a great athlete.

GREAT?

GREAT athlete? I mean, I won't dive to far into this because it's obvious we have different ideas on what it means to be a "great" athlete. I would rate Bird as an average to above average athlete. Nothing to write home about in that regard.

Curious, name some other great athletes from Bird's playing days.

 

[sea manup]

larry was pretty fly for a white guy

 

[jumpman cbt2]

If I remeber correctly bird himself said he wasn't anything extraordinary from a physical standpoint. Said he was just a good basketball player.

Bird God

THIS.
Larry Bird was not extraordinary fast, strong, high flying or agile. But his shooting, clutch, court vision made him to be one of the best of all time.
There are many players nowadaýs who are physically more athletic than the superstars from the old millenium,
However, athletism linked to spectaular dunking, dribbling etc. does not mean the person is a better athlete overall.
Many people prefer Vince Carter or Amare Stoudamire over players like Dirk, Duncan, Malone etc.

I remember how my team (all 18 year old guys) who were quick and agile lost against our mid 30 year old teammates
because we lacked in experience and did not play smart at all.

 

[ryanjumpman420]

Watch "Larry Bird - Athleticism" on YouTube
Larry Bird - Athleticism:

 

[ryanjumpman420]

GREAT?

GREAT athlete? I mean, I won't dive to far into this because it's obvious we have different ideas on what it means to be a "great" athlete. I would rate Bird as an average to above average athlete. Nothing to write home about in that regard.

Curious, name some other great athletes from Bird's playing days.

Michael Jordan, James Worthy, Michael Cooper, Magic Johnson, Hakeem Olajuwon, Julius Erving, Charles Barkley, Ralph Sampson, Dennis Rodman, Kevin Mchale, Kareem Abdul Jabaar, Dominique Wilkins, George Gervin, Spud Webb, Clyde Drexler, Bernard King, Dennis Johnson, Alex English, Mark Aquire, Moses Malone, Isiah Thomas....i can keep going. The 80s were loaded. Best decade of basketball for the NBA. The NBA was a MAN's league then in the 80s. It's a BOY's league now.

 

[shoeking2101]

Michael Jordan, James Worthy, Michael Cooper, Magic Johnson, Hakeem Olajuwon, Julius Erving, Charles Barkley, Ralph Sampson, Dennis Rodman, Kevin Mchale, Kareem Abdul Jabaar, Dominique Wilkins, George Gervin, Spud Webb, Clyde Drexler, Bernard King, Dennis Johnson, Alex English, Mark Aquire, Moses Malone, Isiah Thomas....i can keep going. The 80s were loaded. Best decade of basketball for the NBA. The NBA was a MAN's league then in the 80s. It's a BOY's league now.

If Michael Jordan, Julius Erving, Charles Barkley, etc. are great athletes then you can't call bird a great athlete. He wasn't really close to any of those guys from an athletic perspective.

If you don't allow nostalgia to interfere with your opinion, the best era / decade of basketball is happening right now. Basketball is so much more sophisticated now than it was back then on both sides of the ball, and there's a talent disparity when you look at the players of today vs back then. And it's supposed to be this way, that's what evolution is all about.

 

[ryanjumpman420]

If Michael Jordan, Julius Erving, Charles Barkley, etc. are great athletes then you can't call bird a great athlete. He wasn't really close to any of those guys from an athletic perspective.

If you don't allow nostalgia to interfere with your opinion, the best era / decade of basketball is happening right now. Basketball is so much more sophisticated now than it was back then on both sides of the ball, and there's a talent disparity when you look at the players of today vs back then. And it's supposed to be this way, that's what evolution is all about.

I disagree. But i respect your POV.

 

[dmxfury]

I disagree as well but I still enjoy the game (especially playoffs when they 'really' play). I think the intentional lack of effort in the regular season hurts the perception of today's product

 

[ryanjumpman420]

I disagree as well but I still enjoy the game (especially playoffs when they 'really' play). I think the intentional lack of effort in the regular season hurts the perception of today's product

I agree. There are more bad franchises today than there was back then. One of the biggest differences I see in the game today and the 80s game is the mid range game. Maybe it was because the players of the 80s grew up playing and praciting without the 3 point line. Being that the 3 point line didn't come in to play until the 79-80 season. There were alot less teenagers in the league in the 80s cause most players played all 4 years in college and were grown men with more developed fundamentals as soon as they arrived in the league.

 

[ryanjumpman420]

View media item 1418230When the real bigs roamed and dominated the courts of the NBA. 3 guys in this pic from the 80s. Is there a Center in the league today as good as any of these 3?

 

[yjaybrooks]

A shaq that losed weight and is motivated would dominate those 3

 

[ryanjumpman420]

A shaq that losed weight and is motivated would dominate those 3

Shaq aint in the league right now and hasn't been that Shaq for a while now. But in his day sure Shaq would have dominated. Hakeem dominated Shaq in the finals. Kareem is #1 all time scorer.

 

[yjaybrooks]

Some of you don't understand how real bird was and what it took to beat him and the celtics and the players are soft now they couldn't and wouldn't take fouls back then

 

[yjaybrooks]

Shaq aint in the league right now and hasn't been that Shaq for a while now. But in his day sure Shaq would have dominated. Hakeem dominated Shaq in the finals. Kareem is #1 all time scorer.

That's true but in Kareem's era there weren't that many tall centers the court was 9 feet also the league raised it to 10 feet in the med to late 80s

 

[ryanjumpman420]

That's true but in Kareem's era there weren't that many tall centers the court was 9 feet also the league raised it to 10 feet in the med to late 80s

There were plenty of other tall centers in Kareems day. Look at Sampson in the pic at 7'3. Robert Parish 7'0 who he saw in the finals 4 times. Many many more.

 

[ryanjumpman420]

Some of you don't understand how real bird was and what it took to beat him and the celtics and the players are soft now they couldn't and wouldn't take fouls back then

Like Magic Johnson said Larry Bird was so good it was frightening. Those Celtics and Lakers and Pistons teams were all loaded. There were a ton of teams loaded with great players back then. And the league is alot more soft on fouls today.