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^ agreed on DMC.. id take him right now too. Paired with JW could be DOPE
Washington Wizards 2012-2013 Season Thread - Thanks for a great year!
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by Methodical Management,
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I concur, but if his attitude/ego/persona is not in check...he also has the potential to ruin a locker room and sabotage a positive environment.
Risk versus Reward.
I like DMC....a lot and think Wall would be a perfect PG for him. That would be a DREAM combo in the District....with Beal & Porter.
One can Dream......
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A team can carry three post rookie Max contracts tho its the 3rd contract that becomes the issue . A post rookie Max starts at 14/15 with the cap at like 50 something and the tax at 70 you can carry all three and still put a squad around them Perkins contract killed the thunder from keeping harden and ibaka
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Third contact for a single player not the 3rd post rookie Max
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I would LOVE to get Ilyasova for Ariza.. if that's the trade they're looking at I would be ecstatic.
Ilyasova can ball, dude is exactly the stretch 4 we need shooting wise, but even outside of scoring he's no slouch. I remember he had a 20-something rebound game last year.
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Either Ilyasova or Asik, and I'd be ecstatic. Gonna be interesting to see what happens w/ Ariza. I have a feeling that Okafor will be re-signed.
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That's the rub: a starting caliber center is going to demand in excess of $8 million per regardless. That's just the going rate. Look at Tiago Splitter's deal.
Few teams can get away with playing as small as Miami, and our "big three" will ironically be our three smallest players on the floor. Cap management will be a major issue for this team long term.
To me, that's one of the reasons why drafting Porter made the most sense. He may have a lower ceiling, but he was a lesser risk. If Porter becomes an All Star, keeping all three would likely result in mediocrity. You'd probably have to trade Porter or Beal at that point for frontcourt help. If, instead, he becomes a reliable contributor and valued starter, his asking price would probably be in that $8 million/year range and you can still find a way to replace Nene and still have some room left to sign Porter to a contract extension.
This is where the league's attempts at competitive balance have failed. In theory, the cap restricts teams to no more than three star players in their prime. In practice, it means that up and coming teams have trouble staying together, and the best way to assemble a championship team is by convincing veterans to sign as role players for LESS than market value. What happens, then, is that the rich get richer - as these vets are buying a ring like Ray Allen did last year by playing for well below their value - and teams like the Wizards will find it very difficult to get over the hump.
As much as everyone touted the "OKC model" in years past, they have yet to receive a "contender discount" from that key veteran free agent. It hasn't happened. They've been forced to hope that players on rookie scale contracts can step in and fill the gaps, but the better they play the less likely they are to stick around.
For all the knocks on the Perkins contract: what would they have done if they kept Jeff Green? There's no WAY they could've signed Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka, AND Jeff Green. Plus, not one of those players is an NBA center - and that's going to cost you. One could argue that they failed to use Perkins to his strengths, as he was used in Boston, or that they should've gone for a different center, but the intent there was sound.
I feel the exact opposite on this. Ilyasova's due damn near $8 million through 2016.
From a salary cap standpoint, that's about the single dumbest thing we could possibly do with Ariza's contract.
For crying out loud, let it expire. Okafor's deal runs up, we will need a starting center. Even if that is Emeka Okafor, you have to believe he's still going to want $10 million a year. Then you need to pay John Wall. And if you wanted to replace Okafor with somebody like Cousins, you'd need to commit max money.
Overpaying for an underachiever like Ilyasova is exactly the type of move I'd expect from the Wizards - and it's exactly the type of move that keeps us fluctuating between mediocrity and futility.
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Just a funny quote I saw in the Post today:
"I'm not gonna go look at my teammate butt naked in a magazine and then text him and be like, 'Yeah, you're looking real good in that." -Martell Webster, on whether he plans to check out John Wall's photos in ESPN Magazine's Body Issue
"I'm not gonna go look at my teammate butt naked in a magazine and then text him and be like, 'Yeah, you're looking real good in that." -Martell Webster, on whether he plans to check out John Wall's photos in ESPN Magazine's Body Issue
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[quote name="Methodical Management" url="/t/509566/washington-wizards-2012-2013-season-thread-summer-league-begins-july-13th/1410#post_18299659]
2016
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From a salary cap standpoint, that's about the single dumbest thing we could possibly do with Ariza's contract.
For crying out loud, let it expire. Okafor's deal runs up, we will need a starting center. Even if that is Emeka Okafor, you have to believe he's still going to want $10 million a year. Then you need to pay John Wall. And if you wanted to replace Okafor with somebody like Cousins, you'd need to commit max money.
Overpaying for an underachiever like Ilyasova is exactly the type of move I'd expect from the Wizards - and it's exactly the type of move that keeps us fluctuating between mediocrity and futility.
[/quote]
But playing the cap space game is a gamble that doesn't always work out well. Look at Dallas this year. Cuban cleared out a ton of space, yet they came away from the FA frenzy empty-handed. You can clear out cap space, but you can't guarantee that big name FAs will actually want to play for your team.
Let's be real, we don't have much of a shot with Cousins. I know I mentioned it earlier but that's a pipe dream. Sacramento isn't THAT stupid, he's one of the most talented young players in the league and they're going to try to keep him at all costs. Same goes for other young talents in FA that year like Monroe, Larry Sanders, Horford. Those guys mean too much for their respective franchises at this time to be let go. So what FAs would we realistically have a shot at signing?
I know it sounds like I'm supporting mediocrity, but that's the reality we have to deal with when rooting for a middling franchise. Washington simply isn't a great destination for free agents. Even if the team performs well this year, players and their agents will be scared away by our notoriously poor reputation. I would rather acquire talent through a trade and know they will play for us. Instead of clearing out a ton of cap space and crossing our fingers that a desirable FA will willingly choose to play under the Wizards management (good luck there).
As for Ilyasova, $8 million a year for a player with his versatility is not a bad contract imo. I don't think he's an underachiever, in fact I would say that he's a good player who is quite underrated. Remember that he's been playing alongside well-known chuckers Jennings and Ellis. Ilyasova is a 26 yo, 6'10 stretch 4 who can shoot the three, pick and pop, run the floor, play decent D, and rebound at a solid clip. This team would fit his strengths perfectly. Obviously he wouldn't make us an immediate contender, but imo we would easily be a lock for 45-50+ wins with him, which is what we need right now to raise the profile of the franchise.
John would have a FIELD day playing with the guy.. instead of Ellis imagine running these plays with Wall :x
There's nothing wrong with spending cap space if you're getting a good basketball player in return.
Plus, if we do decide to bring in a solid big man we can always include Ilyasova as a valuable trade asset. That 8 mil number is hardly an albatross that would scare teams away.
Also, you're forgetting that our frontcourt issues could potentially be solved through next year's draft. Signing or trading for a serviceable C aren't our only options.
For this team, for where we are right now and weighing all the possibilities, I think the Ilyasova move is the best we can make right now. And Milwaukee has a surplus of PFs but no starting-caliber SF. This trade could actually get done. I would do Ariza + protected first for Ilyasova.
I feel the exact opposite on this. Ilyasova's due damn near $8 million through
2016
.
From a salary cap standpoint, that's about the single dumbest thing we could possibly do with Ariza's contract.
For crying out loud, let it expire. Okafor's deal runs up, we will need a starting center. Even if that is Emeka Okafor, you have to believe he's still going to want $10 million a year. Then you need to pay John Wall. And if you wanted to replace Okafor with somebody like Cousins, you'd need to commit max money.
Overpaying for an underachiever like Ilyasova is exactly the type of move I'd expect from the Wizards - and it's exactly the type of move that keeps us fluctuating between mediocrity and futility.
[/quote]
But playing the cap space game is a gamble that doesn't always work out well. Look at Dallas this year. Cuban cleared out a ton of space, yet they came away from the FA frenzy empty-handed. You can clear out cap space, but you can't guarantee that big name FAs will actually want to play for your team.
Let's be real, we don't have much of a shot with Cousins. I know I mentioned it earlier but that's a pipe dream. Sacramento isn't THAT stupid, he's one of the most talented young players in the league and they're going to try to keep him at all costs. Same goes for other young talents in FA that year like Monroe, Larry Sanders, Horford. Those guys mean too much for their respective franchises at this time to be let go. So what FAs would we realistically have a shot at signing?
I know it sounds like I'm supporting mediocrity, but that's the reality we have to deal with when rooting for a middling franchise. Washington simply isn't a great destination for free agents. Even if the team performs well this year, players and their agents will be scared away by our notoriously poor reputation. I would rather acquire talent through a trade and know they will play for us. Instead of clearing out a ton of cap space and crossing our fingers that a desirable FA will willingly choose to play under the Wizards management (good luck there).
As for Ilyasova, $8 million a year for a player with his versatility is not a bad contract imo. I don't think he's an underachiever, in fact I would say that he's a good player who is quite underrated. Remember that he's been playing alongside well-known chuckers Jennings and Ellis. Ilyasova is a 26 yo, 6'10 stretch 4 who can shoot the three, pick and pop, run the floor, play decent D, and rebound at a solid clip. This team would fit his strengths perfectly. Obviously he wouldn't make us an immediate contender, but imo we would easily be a lock for 45-50+ wins with him, which is what we need right now to raise the profile of the franchise.
John would have a FIELD day playing with the guy.. instead of Ellis imagine running these plays with Wall :x
There's nothing wrong with spending cap space if you're getting a good basketball player in return.
Plus, if we do decide to bring in a solid big man we can always include Ilyasova as a valuable trade asset. That 8 mil number is hardly an albatross that would scare teams away.
Also, you're forgetting that our frontcourt issues could potentially be solved through next year's draft. Signing or trading for a serviceable C aren't our only options.
For this team, for where we are right now and weighing all the possibilities, I think the Ilyasova move is the best we can make right now. And Milwaukee has a surplus of PFs but no starting-caliber SF. This trade could actually get done. I would do Ariza + protected first for Ilyasova.
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I don't think many teams are chomping at the bit given the way Ilyasova performed last season. I'd tend to think most GMs (including John Hammond) would consider Ilyasova overpaid. The last serious trade offer they received for him (at least that I read about) was for Kris Humphries and MarShon Brooks - and bear in mind the Nets have proven that they're willing to take on ANY contract. If that's the best we can swing him for if he doesn't work out, I'd rather pass.
I can see that you'd rather get something NOW than the possibility of nothing later, but, remember, this is less about luring free agents than RETAINING our own players. We NEED Ariza coming off the books just to cover John Wall's raise. We're spending $14 million a year on our power forward already - and his contract isn't going anywhere.
Quote:
. Look at Dallas this year. Cuban cleared out a ton of space, yet they came away from the FA frenzy empty-handed. You can clear out cap space, but you can't guarantee that big name FAs will actually want to play for your team.
Cuban thought free agents would be lining up to play with a 50 year old Dirk Nowitzki and cap space they could use to bring a friend. It was a stupid move. Dirk isn't an anchor anymore. He's not a recruiting tool and cap space with no committed players is meaningless to players in pursuit of a championship.
A better model, and I mentioned this before, is to demonstrate playoff success with young talent and have cap room available to add a missing piece. That's what Houston and Golden State have done and that's what Washington can do. However unlikely, DMC isn't totally unrealistic given that Wall IS a recruiting tool in that case, and the Kings have been less than thrilled with his attitude. If there's a 10% chance to get a player of that caliber, I'll take it. It's not like we can't settle for a guy like Ilyasova next year, nor is he necessary to make the playoffs this coming season given the state of the Eastern conference. You kill your flexibility for what? Is he going to get us into the second round this year? I don't think so. Ilyasova doesn't make this team better than Miami, Chicago, Brooklyn, Indiana, or New York. You'll have to go through one of those teams in the first round.
There aren't a ton of playoff teams who will have cap space next summer. I'd keep that option open.
A mis-spent $8 mil per on a "stretch four" is what we paid to Andray Blatche. Tell me that wasn't an albatross.
Lots of fans were disappointed the team spent the full MLE on Webster. We're talking about nearly twice that annually for a reserve four. We were just talking about the impact of the Perkins contract on the Thunder. Perkins makes a few hundred grand more than Ilyasova - and at least Perkins starts. I can't think of many teams who are happy with an $8 million reserve. (Tell me Chicago doesn't want a mulligan on the Taj Gibson contract.)
Last year, Ilyasova averaged 11 and 7. They year before he was benched and exiled, Blatche averaged 16 and 8 - and he shot a higher percentage from the field, too.
The "cap game" isn't just about free agents. It's about managing your roster. $58-$60 million to spend, 12 players. Ink Nene in for $13 million. If Wall wants the max, that's $13.7 million. Beal and Porter are on rookie deals and will only cost $4-4.5 million each. $10-14 million on a center. $5 million for Webster. $2 mil for Maynor. Want ANYONE else back or are we renouncing the rights to the whole lot?
Assume we take Ilyasova and win 50 games as you suggested. We're drafting our starting center with, what, the 18th pick? Yikes. Sixth men and stretch 4's are a lot easier to find than starting centers - especially that late in the draft.
If you preserve your cap space, then all of the sudden you're a playoff team with an All Star point guard, a young sharpshooter, and a rising talent in Otto Porter. Tell me that's not attractive to a free agent center. Even if you can't grab one of the top restricted bigs (Monroe, Cousins, etc.) you still have a second tier there with Gortat, Bogut, and our own free agent, Okafor.
If you're under the cap, you don't have to take back equal salary on a trade. We could trade for Ilyasova next year if we really, really wanted to. There's no advantage to killing that flexibility now, especially when it isn't going to move the needle at all in terms of our eventual playoff outcome.
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DMC would def help put us in the playoffs with the right coach keepin the team in order
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mrtarheel
Supporter
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Noooooo llyasova is a 8 million dollar role player. We dont need that. Keep the cap space and take a gamble on getting Cousins.But playing the cap space game is a gamble that doesn't always work out well. Look at Dallas this year. Cuban cleared out a ton of space, yet they came away from the FA frenzy empty-handed. You can clear out cap space, but you can't guarantee that big name FAs will actually want to play for your team.
Let's be real, we don't have much of a shot with Cousins. I know I mentioned it earlier but that's a pipe dream. Sacramento isn't THAT stupid, he's one of the most talented young players in the league and they're going to try to keep him at all costs. Same goes for other young talents in FA that year like Monroe, Larry Sanders, Horford. Those guys mean too much for their respective franchises at this time to be let go. So what FAs would we realistically have a shot at signing?
I know it sounds like I'm supporting mediocrity, but that's the reality we have to deal with when rooting for a middling franchise. Washington simply isn't a great destination for free agents. Even if the team performs well this year, players and their agents will be scared away by our notoriously poor reputation. I would rather acquire talent through a trade and know they will play for us. Instead of clearing out a ton of cap space and crossing our fingers that a desirable FA will willingly choose to play under the Wizards management (good luck there).
As for Ilyasova, $8 million a year for a player with his versatility is not a bad contract imo. I don't think he's an underachiever, in fact I would say that he's a good player who is quite underrated. Remember that he's been playing alongside well-known chuckers Jennings and Ellis. Ilyasova is a 26 yo, 6'10 stretch 4 who can shoot the three, pick and pop, run the floor, play decent D, and rebound at a solid clip. This team would fit his strengths perfectly. Obviously he wouldn't make us an immediate contender, but imo we would easily be a lock for 45-50+ wins with him, which is what we need right now to raise the profile of the franchise.
John would have a FIELD day playing with the guy.. instead of Ellis imagine running these plays with Wall
There's nothing wrong with spending cap space if you're getting a good basketball player in return.
Plus, if we do decide to bring in a solid big man we can always include Ilyasova as a valuable trade asset. That 8 mil number is hardly an albatross that would scare teams away.
Also, you're forgetting that our frontcourt issues could potentially be solved through next year's draft. Signing or trading for a serviceable C aren't our only options.
For this team, for where we are right now and weighing all the possibilities, I think the Ilyasova move is the best we can make right now. And Milwaukee has a surplus of PFs but no starting-caliber SF. This trade could actually get done. I would do Ariza + protected first for Ilyasova.
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If Ilyasova doesn't work out, another option might be Patrick Patterson. What do you all think of him as a stretch-4? He'd be MUCH cheaper and would fill a void.
Here are some links from BF:
Washington Wizards Summer League primer:
Ernie Grunfeld: 'We expect to have everyone on roster' for training camp
Bradley Beal injury update: Wizards' G 'probably' won't play in Team USA minicamp
After what happened with Wall last year, I'm beyond happy to see the Wizards being overly cautious w/ Beal.
Another thing...for some reason I think Glen Rice Jr. is gonna pan out for the team. Might not be this year....but down the road. Love what I've seen from him and I'm excited to see what he does out in Vegas.
Here are some links from BF:
Washington Wizards Summer League primer:
Ernie Grunfeld: 'We expect to have everyone on roster' for training camp
Bradley Beal injury update: Wizards' G 'probably' won't play in Team USA minicamp
After what happened with Wall last year, I'm beyond happy to see the Wizards being overly cautious w/ Beal.
Another thing...for some reason I think Glen Rice Jr. is gonna pan out for the team. Might not be this year....but down the road. Love what I've seen from him and I'm excited to see what he does out in Vegas.
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NBA Free Agency rumors: Washington has interest in Dejuan Blair
Of course the Wizards would be interested in Blair....
Funny to think how a lot of people in the fanbase were screaming at the TV, WANTING EG to draft him int he 2nd round....now he's a trade target. Sums up Ernie Grunfeld perfectly.
The NBA Summer League: A place to experiment
Of course the Wizards would be interested in Blair....
Funny to think how a lot of people in the fanbase were screaming at the TV, WANTING EG to draft him int he 2nd round....now he's a trade target. Sums up Ernie Grunfeld perfectly. The NBA Summer League: A place to experiment
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A couple notes from Summer Fest @ the VC on Tues night:
Rest of Article in Link via TAI
Vid of Ves' awfulness in link as well.
Rest of Article in Link via TAI
Vid of Ves' awfulness in link as well.
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Trying to watch the Wizards summer league game and for whatever reason NBATV isn't working. Anyone else with Verizon Fios have this problem?
Edit: Just found out it was blacked out, it's on Comcast Sportsnet.
Edit: Just found out it was blacked out, it's on Comcast Sportsnet.
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victor page
Banned
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This might be the worst game in summer league history. Both teams look pretty bad collectively.
Not a good shooting night for Otto or Rice Jr but I like how active they've been. Otto has to get adjusted to the speed of the game. He probably hasn't ever had to run up and down the floor this much. Knocked down his first two long range shots with ease. Wall and Beal should equal a lot of open looks for Porter on the wing.
Ves has been decent. He's been doing what he does best and that's running up and down the floor making hustle plays. He should be a clear standout on the floor but he isn't. Same with Singleton.
Not a good shooting night for Otto or Rice Jr but I like how active they've been. Otto has to get adjusted to the speed of the game. He probably hasn't ever had to run up and down the floor this much. Knocked down his first two long range shots with ease. Wall and Beal should equal a lot of open looks for Porter on the wing.
Ves has been decent. He's been doing what he does best and that's running up and down the floor making hustle plays. He should be a clear standout on the floor but he isn't. Same with Singleton.
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Great, and I set my DVR to record the game on NBATV. Looks like I didn't miss much.Trying to watch the Wizards summer league game and for whatever reason NBATV isn't working. Anyone else with Verizon Fios have this problem?
Edit: Just found out it was blacked out, it's on Comcast Sportsnet.
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Otto was playing some SG. Not sure how much I like that, but it at least shows his versatility.
GRJr. is gonna force his way to getting PT this year. That time in the D-League served him well as he looked real aggressive.
Ves was actually good tonight. I guess if he's going to do anything in the league, it's gonna be at the 5.
Nope...not at all
I just finished watching the replay on CSN. Out of everything I saw, I'm having a hard time believing that Chris Singleton will be on the roster to start the season.
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Hmmm.. I think I'm actually starting to see it your way now. You made a good point, the East will probably not be that competitive next year. I only see 9 teams being in playoff contention (Miami, Indiana, Chicago, NY, Brooklyn, Washington, Cleveland, Atlanta, Detroit). Our roster as currently constructed would most likely be in the top 8 of those 9 teams come April. So we probably don't need to do anything crazy.
I still don't think we have a great shot at landing any of the major FAs. But either way it's good to have the cap space as opposed to another longterm contract on the books. And I do really like Ilyasova and think he's underrated (as his advanced stats show), but I can admit that he wouldn't put us over the top.
One deal I would definitely do is for Asik. But Morey is a smart guy, it looks like he's not going anywhere.
In related news, Gilbert seems to be chillin
I would take his life over any active player in the league right now.. over Lebron, Kobe, any of those dudes. Dude is making 22 mil this year doing nothing and he's spending the money buying hundreds of pounds of fireworks.. he's basically an overgrown 12-year old living the dream.
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Uh...8 mil for Ilyasova...
PASS.
PASS.
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Ves...playing well.
GRJr. looking aggressive...feel bad that he's playing on that awful 2nd unit.
Porter - that length is gonna be a problem on defense. He's got his hands all in the passing lanes.
Would be nice of the Wizards to actually have a decent PG on the SL roster.
GRJr. looking aggressive...feel bad that he's playing on that awful 2nd unit.
Porter - that length is gonna be a problem on defense. He's got his hands all in the passing lanes.
Would be nice of the Wizards to actually have a decent PG on the SL roster.
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