WELCOME TO THE MARVEL MULTIVERSE -*RIP STAN LEE & Boseman* - D&W OUT NOW - Doomsday = RDJ back

[KingdomFlatbush]

.

 

[creamofdacrops]

No it was Falcon.

You had a trash theater if nobody was hyped for Cap wielding Mjolnir.
​

Nah I definitely did lmao. I saw that **** on Friday too idk how they weren't more hyped.

 

[titang545]

Was Thors beared braided before or did the lightning do it?

Lightning did it. LOL

Seeing Thanos fight at full capacity makes me think that even if they did get the glove off him in IW, he'd somehow manage to get it back.

Just curious are people saying this ones who never read the comics. Thanos could beat all the Avengers without the glove in the comics, with the glove it would have been no contest. They certainly made him MUCH weaker and

Bucky > Clarence

Easily

Yes he is a better fighter than Sam, however Bucky doesn't want to be the face of America like Captain America is. He is more of a merc, give him a target to eliminate or fight and I am your boy. However all the politics that comes with being Captain America wouldn't work for Bucky, especially with his WS story. Imagine him as Captain America standing next to the president and someone saying the special combination.
​

​

 

[DLF]

Can't say that when Thanos literally already won

I'd bet money they dont.

Ok let’s bet. 1000000 dollars. No matter what I think of them, I’ll say they suck so I can win the money

 

[kungfu koala]

How short dude Falcon, who ain't even genetically enhanced in any way, could possibly carry that mantle is worth my ticket automatically.
I'll be listening.

And hulk, bruh. Smarter should mean better; exception to him. What a downgrade. I didn't mind the gentle doctor approach but what happened to your boy getting his rematch?

 

[layziegunts]

Time travel is messy. Wish they went a different route.

NOPE, There was no other way. HE did a snap and destroy the stones, WHAT OTHER ROUTE COULD THERE HAVE BEEN?

Plus Doctor Strange said there was no other way.

 

[squatchnt]

I watched the movie multiple times and loved the movie, however my coworker did have one question I couldn't answer. How did past Thanos get to the future if Nebula used her own return trip capsule?

I had the same question I've heard they made more since they had a sample. That Tony and Pym are smart by earth standards but by space standards not as much. Nebula was able to Jimmy Rigg the portal in the short time after they returned with the stones to bring the armada through. And since Thanos and the army were inside the ship they didn't need quantum realm suits like the avengers.

 

[IATT]

Yes he is a better fighter than Sam, however Bucky doesn't want to be the face of America like Captain America is. He is more of a merc, give him a target to eliminate or fight and I am your boy. However all the politics that comes with being Captain America wouldn't work for Bucky, especially with his WS story. Imagine him as Captain America standing next to the president and someone saying the special combination.​

Other than shooting those PSAs, what did cap really do?

Like the comics/cartoon, Bucky is capable of wearing a suit and making people think

I mean from an optics standpoint, I'm glad

But practically speaking, the shield with Sam isn't a best use of that weapon.. it's why he has multiple guns to go with his wings.. and we've seen him use his wings as a shield

I don't think it would be smart to give the shield to say WM either, because the hand holding the shield wouldn't be freed to fire weapons

 

[titang545]

Markus and McFeely, the writers for endgame said they tried to work the living tribunal into A3. Didn't work out. Then they tried again for A4. But it didn't work out again.

*edit

Btw someone on here mentioned that endgame plays better to adults than kids. After considering it I think they're right. Random kid to my left today was napping for most of the movie and only woke up for the action

That is very promising that they have that in the back of their head, no need to rush things. We have a lot of history/story to cover, just make it fit. I think introducing any major cosmic entity so soon could be a mistake, because people would be like why not call them back.

Just a thought,

Wouldn’t the Soul and Power stones be the only ones needed to bring everyone back?

The soul stone and power stone don't work that. Soul stone enables you to commune with the dead, it was rumored early on the MCU infancy that it was in Wakanda with Black Panther. Keep in mind you have to mentally be able to use the stones, Thanos could use the stones because of his intelligence. You have cosmic awareness once you have the glove on. Imagine knowing everything going on in your house at one time, then expand to your neighborhood, then city, state, country. Now zoom out to the entire universe, and knowing everything.
​

 

[rfx45]

AVENGERS: ENDGAME Writers Address All The Biggest Twists, Character Deaths, The Ending, And More

Spoiler: spoilered because its can be a long read

Why Thanos Was Killed Off So Quickly

In the first fifteen minutes or so of Avengers: Endgame, Thor beheads Thanos but it achieves absolutely nothing because he's already destroyed the Infinity Stones.

"We always had this problem," McFeely explains. "The guy has the ultimate weapon. He can see it coming. It’s ridiculous. We were just banging our heads for weeks, and at some point, [the executive producer] Trinh Tran went, 'Can’t we just kill him?' And we all went, 'What happens if you just kill him? Why would you kill him? Why would he let you kill him?'"

"It reinforced Thanos’s agenda. He was done," Markus adds. "Not to make him too Christ-like, but it was like, 'If I’ve got to die, I can die now.'"

"What If?" Comics Heavily Inspired The Movie

We know that an animated What If? series is coming to Disney+ but those comic books actually inspired a lot of what we saw in Avengers: Endgame. "Chris and I wrote a master document while we were shooting 'Civil War,' and one of the things we were interested in exploring is, remember the What If comics?" McFeely asks.

"Well, this is our what if. If you lost, Thor becomes fat. Natasha becomes a shut-in. Steve becomes depressed. Tony gets on with his life. Hulk is a superhero."

Markus continues: "Clint becomes a murdering maniac. When we were spitballing for 'Endgame,' we started with, Thor’s on a mission of vengeance. And then we were like, he was on a mission of vengeance in the last movie. This is all this guy ever does! And fails, all the time. Let’s drive him into a wall and see what happens."

Professor Hulk Was Supposed To Debut In Infinity War

We saw in the trailers for Avengers: Infinity War that The Hulk was supposed to factor into the final battle but reshoots changed that and the Jade Giant was nowhere to be seen. Well, it turns out that the emergence of "Smart Hulk" was originally set to take place during the battle of Wakanda.

"There was a time when Banner became Smart Hulk in the first movie," Markus confirms. "It was a lot of fun, but it came at the wrong moment. It was an up, right when everyone else was down."Adds McFeely: "It happened in Wakanda. His arc was designed like, I’m not getting along with the Hulk, the Hulk won’t come out. And then they compromise and become Smart Hulk."

While scenes in the Gamma Lab Bruce mentions were written, they decided to jump straight into it with that scene in the pancake house.

Hawkeye's Family Very Nearly Died In Infinity War

"There was a time where we contemplated having that archery scene in the first movie, after the Snap," reveals Markus. "You snap, and then you pop up in Clint’s farm — what are we watching? — and that’s the first indication it had a wider effect. But he literally had not been in the movie prior to that point. It’s cool, but it’s going to blunt the brutality of what [Thanos] did."

Why We Didn't See More Of Captain Marvel

Despite the success of her solo movie, Captain Marvel's role in Avengers: Endgame is relatively minor and much of that boils down to the fact the superhero ensemble was shot before her origin story! However, McFeely offers up another explanation for why her screentime was relatively limited.

"Certainly, Captain Marvel is in ['Endgame'] a little less than you would have thought. But that’s not the story we’re trying to tell — it’s the original Avengers dealing with loss and coming to a conclusion, and she’s the new, fresh blood." Markus adds to that by noting, "She’s been in space nearly half her life. She has obligations."

The Living Tribunal Nearly Appeared In Infinity War

"We did try to put the Living Tribunal in the first movie," Markus confirmed when asked if there were any characters they weren't able to include across the two movies. "We wrote a scene in which he appeared during the Titan fight. And everyone was like, what?"

"Whoa," McFeely adds. "He’s got three heads. It would indicate a whole different level of architecture to the universe and I think that was too much to just throw in." It's easy to see where he's coming from but Markus was quick to say that, "The idea’s still in [Marvel Studios President] Kevin [Feige]’s court."

Why Does Avengers: Endgame Jump Forward By Five Years?

Unexpectedly, Avengers: Endgame jumps ahead by five years after Thanos's death and the writers have explained why it was important to them for a significant amount of time to have passed by the time Earth's Mightiest Heroes formulated their plan to travel through time.

"We wanted it to be real and for a long time — both in movie time and in chronological time for the characters," Markus says. "You couldn’t end Natasha, Tony and Steve the way we do without knowing that they’ve done their time and this is taking them to the brink."

Iron Man Was Going To Travel To Asgard

Initially, the writers didn't want to revisit the events of The Avengers and the first draft instead saw Iron Man head to Asgard to retreive the Tesseract according to McFeely. "[There’s] a moment in the M.C.U., if you’re paying very close attention, where the Aether is there and the Tesseract is in the vault. In that iteration, we were interested in Tony going to Asgard. He had a stealth suit, so he was invisible, and he fought Heimdall, who could see him."

That would have been very cool but it wasn't the only change made. Thor was originally going to share a lot of screentime with Natalie Portman's Jane Foster, while "They went to the Triskelion at one point to get the [Tesseract], and then somebody was going to get into a car and drive to Doctor Strange’s house."

How Does Time-Travel Work In The MCU?

Doing away with the idea that travelling back to the past changes the future was a "necessity" according to McFeely as "If you have six MacGuffins and every time you go back it changes something, you’ve got Biff’s casino, exponentially. So we just couldn’t do that. We had physicists come in — more than one — who said, basically, “Back to the Future” is [wrong]."

"Basically said what the Hulk says in that scene," Markus continues, "which is, if you go to the past, then the present becomes your past and the past becomes your future. So there’s absolutely no reason it would change."

How They Managed To Get Robert Redford To Return

Robert Redford played Alexander Pierce in Captain America: The Winter Soldier but he recently announced his retirement from acting, so how on Earth did Marvel Studios manage to get him to reprise the role for Avengers: Endgame?

"That was one where we thought, should it be Nick Fury?" McFeely reveals. "We also wrote a version for Maria Hill. That whole time, they’re announcing “Old Man With a Gun” as Redford’s last appearance on film. It’s the last time you’re going to see Robert Redford. And we’re going — [shoots conspiratorial look at Markus] [Laughter]"

The Final Battle Was Originally Even Longer

Markus reveales that "We wrote and shot an even much longer battle, with its own three-act structure" and that means there must be a lot of deleted scenes out there for us to enjoy somewhere down the line. However, it doesn't sound as if all of it worked!

"It didn’t play well," McFeely explains, "but we had a scene in a trench where, for reasons, the battle got paused for about three minutes and now there’s 18 people all going, 'What are we going to do?' 'I’m going to do this.' 'I’m going to do this.' Just bouncing around this completely fake, fraudulent scene. When you have that many people, it invariably is, one line, one line, one line. And that’s not a natural conversation."

"It also required them to find enough shelter to have a conversation in the middle of the biggest battle," Markus concludes. "It wasn’t a polite World War I battle where you have a moment."

Assembling A-Force

There's a very cool moment in the movie when the Marvel Cinematic Universe's female heroes assemble to take on Thanos. It's a little on the nose but still very good but how did the writers come up with that? "There was much conversation," reveals McFeely. "Is that delightful or is it pandering? We went around and around on that. Ultimately we went, we like it too much."

"Part of the fun of the 'Avengers' movies has always been team-ups," Markus agrees. "Marvel has been amassing this huge roster of characters. You’ve got crazy aliens. You’ve got that many badass women. You’ve got three or four people in Iron Man suits."

Why Hank And Janet Were Absent From The Final Battle

Hank Pym and Janet Van Dyne were both absent from Avengers: Endgame's final battle but why? "There were moments," Markus explains, "as they brought everybody back, where we’re like, technically, Michael Douglas and Michelle Pfeiffer have [Ant-Man] suits. Do we bring them back? It became impossible to track the people we did bring back, but also, it’s just going to be an orgy."

Why Black Widow Had To Die

"Her journey, in our minds, had come to an end if she could get the Avengers back," McFeely reveals when asked why they decided to kill off Black Widow. "She comes from such an abusive, terrible, mind-control background, so when she gets to Vormir and she has a chance to get the family back, that’s a thing she would trade for."

"The toughest thing for us was we were always worried that people weren’t going to have time to be sad enough. The stakes are still out there and they haven’t solved the problem. But we lost a big character — a female character — how do we honor it? We have this male lens and it’s a lot of guys being sad that a woman died."

The Reason Natasha Doesn't Get A Funeral

Since Avengers: Endgame was released, a lot of fans have complained that while Iron Man gets a big funeral at the end of the movie, poor Black Widow appears to have been forgotten about.

Asked for an explanation, Markus says: "That’s partly because Tony’s this massive public figure and she’s been a cipher the whole time. It wasn’t necessarily honest to the character to give her a funeral. The biggest question about it is what Thor raises there on the dock. 'We have the Infinity Stones. Why don’t we just bring her back?'"

McFeely adds: "But that’s the everlasting exchange. You bring her back, you lose the stone." Wait, does that mean she was resurrected when Captain America returned it?
Was Hawkeye Ever Going To Die?

"There was, for sure," McFeely responds when asked if there was ever a draft featuring Clint Barton making the leap. "Jen Underdahl, our visual effects producer, read an outline or draft where Hawkeye goes over. And she goes, 'Don’t you take this away from her.' I actually get emotional thinking about it."

"And it was true,"Markus continues, "it was him taking the hit for her. It was melodramatic to have him die and not get his family back. And it is only right and proper that she’s done."

Did Iron Man Have To Die In Avengers: Endgame?

"Everyone knew this was going to be the end of Tony Stark," McFeely reveals before Markus adds: "I don’t think there were any mandates. If we had a good reason to not do it, certainly people would have entertained it."

"The watchword was, end this chapter, and he started the chapter," McFeely continues as Markus points out that, "In a way, he has been the mirror of Steve Rogers the entire time. Steve is moving toward some sort of enlightened self-interest, and Tony’s moving to selflessness. They both get to their endpoints."

Was There Ever A Version Where Iron Man Lived?

"No," Markus confirms. "Because we had the opportunity to give him the perfect retirement life, within the movie. That’s the life he’s been striving for. Are he and Pepper going to get together? Yes. They got married, they had a kid, it was great. It’s a good death. It doesn’t feel like a tragedy. It feels like a heroic, finished life."

Was Captain America Always Getting A Happy Ending With Peggy?

"From the very first outline, we knew he was going to get his dance," McFeely confirms. "On a separate subject, I started to lose my barometer on what was just fan service and what was good for the character. Because I think it’s good for the characters. But we also just gave you what you wanted. Is that good? I don’t know. But I’ll tell you, it’s satisfying."

"He’s postponed a life in order to fulfill his duty. That’s why I didn’t think we were ever going to kill him. Because that’s not the arc. The arc is, I finally get to put my shield down because I’ve earned that."

"A hero without sacrifice, you’re not going to get the miles out of that person that you need to for these movies," Markus continues. "That’s what makes them a hero, it’s not the powers." That's a great way of looking at it and it was a pretty perfect way to wrap up the hero's story in the MCU.

Avengers: Endgame May Mark The Writers' Marvel Finale

"I don’t know how to follow it up, that’s the problem," Markus says when asked if the writing duo is finished with Marvel Studios after Avengers: Endgame. "I’m not quite old enough to retire."

Where Did The Idea Of Time-Travel Come From?

"Kevin [Feige] at one point said, I would like to use the Time Stone, or use time as an element,"McFeely reveals. "It let us spend a few weeks seeing what’s the kookiest thing we could do with time and not break the movie."

"We all sat there going, really? We’re going to do time travel?" Markus says. "It was only when we were looking at who we had available, character-wise; we hadn’t used Ant-Man yet. And there really is, in people’s theory of the Quantum Realm, a time thing in the M.C.U., right now, available to us, with a character we haven’t used yet. We have a loophole that’s not cheating."

 

[kvsm23vs24]

Im all for black Cap, but yea Clarence a lame.

 

[titang545]

Other than shooting those PSAs, what did cap really do?

Like the comics/cartoon, Bucky is capable of wearing a suit and making people think

I mean from an optics standpoint, I'm glad

But practically speaking, the shield with Sam isn't a best use of that weapon.. it's why he has multiple guns to go with his wings.. and we've seen him use his wings as a shield

I don't think it would be smart to give the shield to say WM either, because the hand holding the shield wouldn't be freed to fire weapons

PSA's he is the shield for America, dude is the epitome of role model. Everyone strives for that level of greatness, Bucky's image is to tarnished to hold such a position without tons of PR. Sam actually changes out of the wings in the comics and becomes more ground base, he doesn't completely get rid of them. WM? I think I might know who you are talking about but want to be sure.

 

[harlemtothebronx]

Movie was amazing.

Not sure how you pull off all they did with all those characters in three hours without it feeling crazy disjointed, but that's what all the groundwork of 20 films was for. Almost gives you a storytelling advantage in some ways.

We need that Hulk movie for real now.

 

[IATT]

PSA's he is the shield for America, dude is the epitome of role model. Everyone strives for that level of greatness, Bucky's image is to tarnished to hold such a position without tons of PR. Sam actually changes out of the wings in the comics and becomes more ground base, he doesn't completely get rid of them. WM? I think I might know who you are talking about but want to be sure.

If you don't know who WM is, we clearly don't need to be having this convo

 

[KingdomFlatbush]

AVENGERS: ENDGAME Writers Address All The Biggest Twists, Character Deaths, The Ending, And More

Spoiler: spoilered because its can be a long read

Why Thanos Was Killed Off So Quickly

In the first fifteen minutes or so of Avengers: Endgame, Thor beheads Thanos but it achieves absolutely nothing because he's already destroyed the Infinity Stones.

"We always had this problem," McFeely explains. "The guy has the ultimate weapon. He can see it coming. It’s ridiculous. We were just banging our heads for weeks, and at some point, [the executive producer] Trinh Tran went, 'Can’t we just kill him?' And we all went, 'What happens if you just kill him? Why would you kill him? Why would he let you kill him?'"

"It reinforced Thanos’s agenda. He was done," Markus adds. "Not to make him too Christ-like, but it was like, 'If I’ve got to die, I can die now.'"

"What If?" Comics Heavily Inspired The Movie

We know that an animated What If? series is coming to Disney+ but those comic books actually inspired a lot of what we saw in Avengers: Endgame. "Chris and I wrote a master document while we were shooting 'Civil War,' and one of the things we were interested in exploring is, remember the What If comics?" McFeely asks.

"Well, this is our what if. If you lost, Thor becomes fat. Natasha becomes a shut-in. Steve becomes depressed. Tony gets on with his life. Hulk is a superhero."

Markus continues: "Clint becomes a murdering maniac. When we were spitballing for 'Endgame,' we started with, Thor’s on a mission of vengeance. And then we were like, he was on a mission of vengeance in the last movie. This is all this guy ever does! And fails, all the time. Let’s drive him into a wall and see what happens."

Professor Hulk Was Supposed To Debut In Infinity War

We saw in the trailers for Avengers: Infinity War that The Hulk was supposed to factor into the final battle but reshoots changed that and the Jade Giant was nowhere to be seen. Well, it turns out that the emergence of "Smart Hulk" was originally set to take place during the battle of Wakanda.

"There was a time when Banner became Smart Hulk in the first movie," Markus confirms. "It was a lot of fun, but it came at the wrong moment. It was an up, right when everyone else was down."Adds McFeely: "It happened in Wakanda. His arc was designed like, I’m not getting along with the Hulk, the Hulk won’t come out. And then they compromise and become Smart Hulk."

While scenes in the Gamma Lab Bruce mentions were written, they decided to jump straight into it with that scene in the pancake house.

Hawkeye's Family Very Nearly Died In Infinity War

"There was a time where we contemplated having that archery scene in the first movie, after the Snap," reveals Markus. "You snap, and then you pop up in Clint’s farm — what are we watching? — and that’s the first indication it had a wider effect. But he literally had not been in the movie prior to that point. It’s cool, but it’s going to blunt the brutality of what [Thanos] did."

Why We Didn't See More Of Captain Marvel

Despite the success of her solo movie, Captain Marvel's role in Avengers: Endgame is relatively minor and much of that boils down to the fact the superhero ensemble was shot before her origin story! However, McFeely offers up another explanation for why her screentime was relatively limited.

"Certainly, Captain Marvel is in ['Endgame'] a little less than you would have thought. But that’s not the story we’re trying to tell — it’s the original Avengers dealing with loss and coming to a conclusion, and she’s the new, fresh blood." Markus adds to that by noting, "She’s been in space nearly half her life. She has obligations."

The Living Tribunal Nearly Appeared In Infinity War

"We did try to put the Living Tribunal in the first movie," Markus confirmed when asked if there were any characters they weren't able to include across the two movies. "We wrote a scene in which he appeared during the Titan fight. And everyone was like, what?"

"Whoa," McFeely adds. "He’s got three heads. It would indicate a whole different level of architecture to the universe and I think that was too much to just throw in." It's easy to see where he's coming from but Markus was quick to say that, "The idea’s still in [Marvel Studios President] Kevin [Feige]’s court."

Why Does Avengers: Endgame Jump Forward By Five Years?

Unexpectedly, Avengers: Endgame jumps ahead by five years after Thanos's death and the writers have explained why it was important to them for a significant amount of time to have passed by the time Earth's Mightiest Heroes formulated their plan to travel through time.

"We wanted it to be real and for a long time — both in movie time and in chronological time for the characters," Markus says. "You couldn’t end Natasha, Tony and Steve the way we do without knowing that they’ve done their time and this is taking them to the brink."

Iron Man Was Going To Travel To Asgard

Initially, the writers didn't want to revisit the events of The Avengers and the first draft instead saw Iron Man head to Asgard to retreive the Tesseract according to McFeely. "[There’s] a moment in the M.C.U., if you’re paying very close attention, where the Aether is there and the Tesseract is in the vault. In that iteration, we were interested in Tony going to Asgard. He had a stealth suit, so he was invisible, and he fought Heimdall, who could see him."

That would have been very cool but it wasn't the only change made. Thor was originally going to share a lot of screentime with Natalie Portman's Jane Foster, while "They went to the Triskelion at one point to get the [Tesseract], and then somebody was going to get into a car and drive to Doctor Strange’s house."

How Does Time-Travel Work In The MCU?

Doing away with the idea that travelling back to the past changes the future was a "necessity" according to McFeely as "If you have six MacGuffins and every time you go back it changes something, you’ve got Biff’s casino, exponentially. So we just couldn’t do that. We had physicists come in — more than one — who said, basically, “Back to the Future” is [wrong]."

"Basically said what the Hulk says in that scene," Markus continues, "which is, if you go to the past, then the present becomes your past and the past becomes your future. So there’s absolutely no reason it would change."

How They Managed To Get Robert Redford To Return

Robert Redford played Alexander Pierce in Captain America: The Winter Soldier but he recently announced his retirement from acting, so how on Earth did Marvel Studios manage to get him to reprise the role for Avengers: Endgame?

"That was one where we thought, should it be Nick Fury?" McFeely reveals. "We also wrote a version for Maria Hill. That whole time, they’re announcing “Old Man With a Gun” as Redford’s last appearance on film. It’s the last time you’re going to see Robert Redford. And we’re going — [shoots conspiratorial look at Markus] [Laughter]"

The Final Battle Was Originally Even Longer

Markus reveales that "We wrote and shot an even much longer battle, with its own three-act structure" and that means there must be a lot of deleted scenes out there for us to enjoy somewhere down the line. However, it doesn't sound as if all of it worked!

"It didn’t play well," McFeely explains, "but we had a scene in a trench where, for reasons, the battle got paused for about three minutes and now there’s 18 people all going, 'What are we going to do?' 'I’m going to do this.' 'I’m going to do this.' Just bouncing around this completely fake, fraudulent scene. When you have that many people, it invariably is, one line, one line, one line. And that’s not a natural conversation."

"It also required them to find enough shelter to have a conversation in the middle of the biggest battle," Markus concludes. "It wasn’t a polite World War I battle where you have a moment."

Assembling A-Force

There's a very cool moment in the movie when the Marvel Cinematic Universe's female heroes assemble to take on Thanos. It's a little on the nose but still very good but how did the writers come up with that? "There was much conversation," reveals McFeely. "Is that delightful or is it pandering? We went around and around on that. Ultimately we went, we like it too much."

"Part of the fun of the 'Avengers' movies has always been team-ups," Markus agrees. "Marvel has been amassing this huge roster of characters. You’ve got crazy aliens. You’ve got that many badass women. You’ve got three or four people in Iron Man suits."

Why Hank And Janet Were Absent From The Final Battle

Hank Pym and Janet Van Dyne were both absent from Avengers: Endgame's final battle but why? "There were moments," Markus explains, "as they brought everybody back, where we’re like, technically, Michael Douglas and Michelle Pfeiffer have [Ant-Man] suits. Do we bring them back? It became impossible to track the people we did bring back, but also, it’s just going to be an orgy."

Why Black Widow Had To Die

"Her journey, in our minds, had come to an end if she could get the Avengers back," McFeely reveals when asked why they decided to kill off Black Widow. "She comes from such an abusive, terrible, mind-control background, so when she gets to Vormir and she has a chance to get the family back, that’s a thing she would trade for."

"The toughest thing for us was we were always worried that people weren’t going to have time to be sad enough. The stakes are still out there and they haven’t solved the problem. But we lost a big character — a female character — how do we honor it? We have this male lens and it’s a lot of guys being sad that a woman died."

The Reason Natasha Doesn't Get A Funeral

Since Avengers: Endgame was released, a lot of fans have complained that while Iron Man gets a big funeral at the end of the movie, poor Black Widow appears to have been forgotten about.

Asked for an explanation, Markus says: "That’s partly because Tony’s this massive public figure and she’s been a cipher the whole time. It wasn’t necessarily honest to the character to give her a funeral. The biggest question about it is what Thor raises there on the dock. 'We have the Infinity Stones. Why don’t we just bring her back?'"

McFeely adds: "But that’s the everlasting exchange. You bring her back, you lose the stone." Wait, does that mean she was resurrected when Captain America returned it?
Was Hawkeye Ever Going To Die?

"There was, for sure," McFeely responds when asked if there was ever a draft featuring Clint Barton making the leap. "Jen Underdahl, our visual effects producer, read an outline or draft where Hawkeye goes over. And she goes, 'Don’t you take this away from her.' I actually get emotional thinking about it."

"And it was true,"Markus continues, "it was him taking the hit for her. It was melodramatic to have him die and not get his family back. And it is only right and proper that she’s done."

Did Iron Man Have To Die In Avengers: Endgame?

"Everyone knew this was going to be the end of Tony Stark," McFeely reveals before Markus adds: "I don’t think there were any mandates. If we had a good reason to not do it, certainly people would have entertained it."

"The watchword was, end this chapter, and he started the chapter," McFeely continues as Markus points out that, "In a way, he has been the mirror of Steve Rogers the entire time. Steve is moving toward some sort of enlightened self-interest, and Tony’s moving to selflessness. They both get to their endpoints."

Was There Ever A Version Where Iron Man Lived?

"No," Markus confirms. "Because we had the opportunity to give him the perfect retirement life, within the movie. That’s the life he’s been striving for. Are he and Pepper going to get together? Yes. They got married, they had a kid, it was great. It’s a good death. It doesn’t feel like a tragedy. It feels like a heroic, finished life."

Was Captain America Always Getting A Happy Ending With Peggy?

"From the very first outline, we knew he was going to get his dance," McFeely confirms. "On a separate subject, I started to lose my barometer on what was just fan service and what was good for the character. Because I think it’s good for the characters. But we also just gave you what you wanted. Is that good? I don’t know. But I’ll tell you, it’s satisfying."

"He’s postponed a life in order to fulfill his duty. That’s why I didn’t think we were ever going to kill him. Because that’s not the arc. The arc is, I finally get to put my shield down because I’ve earned that."

"A hero without sacrifice, you’re not going to get the miles out of that person that you need to for these movies," Markus continues. "That’s what makes them a hero, it’s not the powers." That's a great way of looking at it and it was a pretty perfect way to wrap up the hero's story in the MCU.

Avengers: Endgame May Mark The Writers' Marvel Finale

"I don’t know how to follow it up, that’s the problem," Markus says when asked if the writing duo is finished with Marvel Studios after Avengers: Endgame. "I’m not quite old enough to retire."

Where Did The Idea Of Time-Travel Come From?

"Kevin [Feige] at one point said, I would like to use the Time Stone, or use time as an element,"McFeely reveals. "It let us spend a few weeks seeing what’s the kookiest thing we could do with time and not break the movie."

"We all sat there going, really? We’re going to do time travel?" Markus says. "It was only when we were looking at who we had available, character-wise; we hadn’t used Ant-Man yet. And there really is, in people’s theory of the Quantum Realm, a time thing in the M.C.U., right now, available to us, with a character we haven’t used yet. We have a loophole that’s not cheating."

I don't agree with all of these decisions, particularly regarding Widow, Clint, and Cap.


But it is what it is

 

[rfx45]

 

[titang545]

Nah I definitely did lmao. I saw that **** on Friday too idk how they weren't more hyped.

Undercutting it a little in Ultron took a bit away from the scene, having Vision lift it. However the scene was just amazing, plus he was giving Thanos that work, for a moment. Dudes durability is unmatched except by an angry Hulk.

How short dude Falcon, who ain't even genetically enhanced in any way, could possibly carry that mantle is worth my ticket automatically.
I'll be listening.

And hulk, bruh. Smarter should mean better; exception to him. What a downgrade. I didn't mind the gentle doctor approach but what happened to your boy getting his rematch?

They are going to need to do some work building his feats up in the MCU but I am not against the idea. Seeing as how it was executed in the comics.


Banner is to smart now for a rematch he wanted no parts of Thanos, you saw how small Professor Hulk is compared to Incredible Hulk. Thanos would have 1 hitter quitter Professor Hulk.

​

 

[rfx45]

 

[IATT]

How short dude Falcon, who ain't even genetically enhanced in any way, could possibly carry that mantle is worth my ticket automatically.
I'll be listening.

Considering we've seen falcon use double guns and then how he uses redwing, I'm not sure (1) where he actually puts the shield while flying and (2) if it would even be a wise weapon for dude considering he now uses his wings as shields

And hulk, bruh. Smarter should mean better; exception to him. What a downgrade.

I mean in a fight, not necessarily always.. unless that 'smarter' is skilled related.. banner is obviously extremely smart, but that's not like tactical fighting smart

Plus you gotta think of hulk like an unstoppable force, with smarts also comes an appreciation for the circumstances which might mean hesitation.. instead of that blind rage filled force

 

[titang545]

Scarlet Witch moved up on the hierachy list (in terms of power)

Fat Thor, IM and Cap struggled against Thanos but she almost murks Thanos by herself.

Technically SW is really a step below Jean Gray with the power of the Phoenix. Dare I say she might be above in terms of power. Unfortunately you can't display her power in the MCU or else it would be hard for casual fans to grasp.

Real talk Scarlet Witch deserves that shine that Black Widow been getting.

Hopefully with the door they left open because of Captain America and Loki they can fix her powers. She should be much more powerful than she is shown in the MCU. She literally wiped out mutants from across the multiverse and stopped new ones from being born. Jean Gray or Rogue need to unlock her true powers.
​

 

[Mark Antony]

AVENGERS: ENDGAME Writers Address All The Biggest Twists, Character Deaths, The Ending, And More

Spoiler: spoilered because its can be a long read

Why Thanos Was Killed Off So Quickly

In the first fifteen minutes or so of Avengers: Endgame, Thor beheads Thanos but it achieves absolutely nothing because he's already destroyed the Infinity Stones.

"We always had this problem," McFeely explains. "The guy has the ultimate weapon. He can see it coming. It’s ridiculous. We were just banging our heads for weeks, and at some point, [the executive producer] Trinh Tran went, 'Can’t we just kill him?' And we all went, 'What happens if you just kill him? Why would you kill him? Why would he let you kill him?'"

"It reinforced Thanos’s agenda. He was done," Markus adds. "Not to make him too Christ-like, but it was like, 'If I’ve got to die, I can die now.'"

"What If?" Comics Heavily Inspired The Movie

We know that an animated What If? series is coming to Disney+ but those comic books actually inspired a lot of what we saw in Avengers: Endgame. "Chris and I wrote a master document while we were shooting 'Civil War,' and one of the things we were interested in exploring is, remember the What If comics?" McFeely asks.

"Well, this is our what if. If you lost, Thor becomes fat. Natasha becomes a shut-in. Steve becomes depressed. Tony gets on with his life. Hulk is a superhero."

Markus continues: "Clint becomes a murdering maniac. When we were spitballing for 'Endgame,' we started with, Thor’s on a mission of vengeance. And then we were like, he was on a mission of vengeance in the last movie. This is all this guy ever does! And fails, all the time. Let’s drive him into a wall and see what happens."

Professor Hulk Was Supposed To Debut In Infinity War

We saw in the trailers for Avengers: Infinity War that The Hulk was supposed to factor into the final battle but reshoots changed that and the Jade Giant was nowhere to be seen. Well, it turns out that the emergence of "Smart Hulk" was originally set to take place during the battle of Wakanda.

"There was a time when Banner became Smart Hulk in the first movie," Markus confirms. "It was a lot of fun, but it came at the wrong moment. It was an up, right when everyone else was down."Adds McFeely: "It happened in Wakanda. His arc was designed like, I’m not getting along with the Hulk, the Hulk won’t come out. And then they compromise and become Smart Hulk."

While scenes in the Gamma Lab Bruce mentions were written, they decided to jump straight into it with that scene in the pancake house.

Hawkeye's Family Very Nearly Died In Infinity War

"There was a time where we contemplated having that archery scene in the first movie, after the Snap," reveals Markus. "You snap, and then you pop up in Clint’s farm — what are we watching? — and that’s the first indication it had a wider effect. But he literally had not been in the movie prior to that point. It’s cool, but it’s going to blunt the brutality of what [Thanos] did."

Why We Didn't See More Of Captain Marvel

Despite the success of her solo movie, Captain Marvel's role in Avengers: Endgame is relatively minor and much of that boils down to the fact the superhero ensemble was shot before her origin story! However, McFeely offers up another explanation for why her screentime was relatively limited.

"Certainly, Captain Marvel is in ['Endgame'] a little less than you would have thought. But that’s not the story we’re trying to tell — it’s the original Avengers dealing with loss and coming to a conclusion, and she’s the new, fresh blood." Markus adds to that by noting, "She’s been in space nearly half her life. She has obligations."

The Living Tribunal Nearly Appeared In Infinity War

"We did try to put the Living Tribunal in the first movie," Markus confirmed when asked if there were any characters they weren't able to include across the two movies. "We wrote a scene in which he appeared during the Titan fight. And everyone was like, what?"

"Whoa," McFeely adds. "He’s got three heads. It would indicate a whole different level of architecture to the universe and I think that was too much to just throw in." It's easy to see where he's coming from but Markus was quick to say that, "The idea’s still in [Marvel Studios President] Kevin [Feige]’s court."

Why Does Avengers: Endgame Jump Forward By Five Years?

Unexpectedly, Avengers: Endgame jumps ahead by five years after Thanos's death and the writers have explained why it was important to them for a significant amount of time to have passed by the time Earth's Mightiest Heroes formulated their plan to travel through time.

"We wanted it to be real and for a long time — both in movie time and in chronological time for the characters," Markus says. "You couldn’t end Natasha, Tony and Steve the way we do without knowing that they’ve done their time and this is taking them to the brink."

Iron Man Was Going To Travel To Asgard

Initially, the writers didn't want to revisit the events of The Avengers and the first draft instead saw Iron Man head to Asgard to retreive the Tesseract according to McFeely. "[There’s] a moment in the M.C.U., if you’re paying very close attention, where the Aether is there and the Tesseract is in the vault. In that iteration, we were interested in Tony going to Asgard. He had a stealth suit, so he was invisible, and he fought Heimdall, who could see him."

That would have been very cool but it wasn't the only change made. Thor was originally going to share a lot of screentime with Natalie Portman's Jane Foster, while "They went to the Triskelion at one point to get the [Tesseract], and then somebody was going to get into a car and drive to Doctor Strange’s house."

How Does Time-Travel Work In The MCU?

Doing away with the idea that travelling back to the past changes the future was a "necessity" according to McFeely as "If you have six MacGuffins and every time you go back it changes something, you’ve got Biff’s casino, exponentially. So we just couldn’t do that. We had physicists come in — more than one — who said, basically, “Back to the Future” is [wrong]."

"Basically said what the Hulk says in that scene," Markus continues, "which is, if you go to the past, then the present becomes your past and the past becomes your future. So there’s absolutely no reason it would change."

How They Managed To Get Robert Redford To Return

Robert Redford played Alexander Pierce in Captain America: The Winter Soldier but he recently announced his retirement from acting, so how on Earth did Marvel Studios manage to get him to reprise the role for Avengers: Endgame?

"That was one where we thought, should it be Nick Fury?" McFeely reveals. "We also wrote a version for Maria Hill. That whole time, they’re announcing “Old Man With a Gun” as Redford’s last appearance on film. It’s the last time you’re going to see Robert Redford. And we’re going — [shoots conspiratorial look at Markus] [Laughter]"

The Final Battle Was Originally Even Longer

Markus reveales that "We wrote and shot an even much longer battle, with its own three-act structure" and that means there must be a lot of deleted scenes out there for us to enjoy somewhere down the line. However, it doesn't sound as if all of it worked!

"It didn’t play well," McFeely explains, "but we had a scene in a trench where, for reasons, the battle got paused for about three minutes and now there’s 18 people all going, 'What are we going to do?' 'I’m going to do this.' 'I’m going to do this.' Just bouncing around this completely fake, fraudulent scene. When you have that many people, it invariably is, one line, one line, one line. And that’s not a natural conversation."

"It also required them to find enough shelter to have a conversation in the middle of the biggest battle," Markus concludes. "It wasn’t a polite World War I battle where you have a moment."

Assembling A-Force

There's a very cool moment in the movie when the Marvel Cinematic Universe's female heroes assemble to take on Thanos. It's a little on the nose but still very good but how did the writers come up with that? "There was much conversation," reveals McFeely. "Is that delightful or is it pandering? We went around and around on that. Ultimately we went, we like it too much."

"Part of the fun of the 'Avengers' movies has always been team-ups," Markus agrees. "Marvel has been amassing this huge roster of characters. You’ve got crazy aliens. You’ve got that many badass women. You’ve got three or four people in Iron Man suits."

Why Hank And Janet Were Absent From The Final Battle

Hank Pym and Janet Van Dyne were both absent from Avengers: Endgame's final battle but why? "There were moments," Markus explains, "as they brought everybody back, where we’re like, technically, Michael Douglas and Michelle Pfeiffer have [Ant-Man] suits. Do we bring them back? It became impossible to track the people we did bring back, but also, it’s just going to be an orgy."

Why Black Widow Had To Die

"Her journey, in our minds, had come to an end if she could get the Avengers back," McFeely reveals when asked why they decided to kill off Black Widow. "She comes from such an abusive, terrible, mind-control background, so when she gets to Vormir and she has a chance to get the family back, that’s a thing she would trade for."

"The toughest thing for us was we were always worried that people weren’t going to have time to be sad enough. The stakes are still out there and they haven’t solved the problem. But we lost a big character — a female character — how do we honor it? We have this male lens and it’s a lot of guys being sad that a woman died."

The Reason Natasha Doesn't Get A Funeral

Since Avengers: Endgame was released, a lot of fans have complained that while Iron Man gets a big funeral at the end of the movie, poor Black Widow appears to have been forgotten about.

Asked for an explanation, Markus says: "That’s partly because Tony’s this massive public figure and she’s been a cipher the whole time. It wasn’t necessarily honest to the character to give her a funeral. The biggest question about it is what Thor raises there on the dock. 'We have the Infinity Stones. Why don’t we just bring her back?'"

McFeely adds: "But that’s the everlasting exchange. You bring her back, you lose the stone." Wait, does that mean she was resurrected when Captain America returned it?
Was Hawkeye Ever Going To Die?

"There was, for sure," McFeely responds when asked if there was ever a draft featuring Clint Barton making the leap. "Jen Underdahl, our visual effects producer, read an outline or draft where Hawkeye goes over. And she goes, 'Don’t you take this away from her.' I actually get emotional thinking about it."

"And it was true,"Markus continues, "it was him taking the hit for her. It was melodramatic to have him die and not get his family back. And it is only right and proper that she’s done."

Did Iron Man Have To Die In Avengers: Endgame?

"Everyone knew this was going to be the end of Tony Stark," McFeely reveals before Markus adds: "I don’t think there were any mandates. If we had a good reason to not do it, certainly people would have entertained it."

"The watchword was, end this chapter, and he started the chapter," McFeely continues as Markus points out that, "In a way, he has been the mirror of Steve Rogers the entire time. Steve is moving toward some sort of enlightened self-interest, and Tony’s moving to selflessness. They both get to their endpoints."

Was There Ever A Version Where Iron Man Lived?

"No," Markus confirms. "Because we had the opportunity to give him the perfect retirement life, within the movie. That’s the life he’s been striving for. Are he and Pepper going to get together? Yes. They got married, they had a kid, it was great. It’s a good death. It doesn’t feel like a tragedy. It feels like a heroic, finished life."

Was Captain America Always Getting A Happy Ending With Peggy?

"From the very first outline, we knew he was going to get his dance," McFeely confirms. "On a separate subject, I started to lose my barometer on what was just fan service and what was good for the character. Because I think it’s good for the characters. But we also just gave you what you wanted. Is that good? I don’t know. But I’ll tell you, it’s satisfying."

"He’s postponed a life in order to fulfill his duty. That’s why I didn’t think we were ever going to kill him. Because that’s not the arc. The arc is, I finally get to put my shield down because I’ve earned that."

"A hero without sacrifice, you’re not going to get the miles out of that person that you need to for these movies," Markus continues. "That’s what makes them a hero, it’s not the powers." That's a great way of looking at it and it was a pretty perfect way to wrap up the hero's story in the MCU.

Avengers: Endgame May Mark The Writers' Marvel Finale

"I don’t know how to follow it up, that’s the problem," Markus says when asked if the writing duo is finished with Marvel Studios after Avengers: Endgame. "I’m not quite old enough to retire."

Where Did The Idea Of Time-Travel Come From?

"Kevin [Feige] at one point said, I would like to use the Time Stone, or use time as an element,"McFeely reveals. "It let us spend a few weeks seeing what’s the kookiest thing we could do with time and not break the movie."

"We all sat there going, really? We’re going to do time travel?" Markus says. "It was only when we were looking at who we had available, character-wise; we hadn’t used Ant-Man yet. And there really is, in people’s theory of the Quantum Realm, a time thing in the M.C.U., right now, available to us, with a character we haven’t used yet. We have a loophole that’s not cheating."

Great read.

We had physicists come in — more than one — who said, basically, “Back to the Future” is [wrong].

 

[Mark Antony]

I don't agree with all of these decisions, particularly regarding Widow, Clint, and Cap.


But it is what it is

Lol, this outlines how difficult the overall process was, how long it took to make certain decisions, the back and forth debates, the experts, the emotion etc. etc. then you're just like "eh, didn't like that choice". Not a call out by any means, just a general, funny observation to me of an artist's process vs. the reception

 

[IATT]

Too early for these feels.. but if dude drops off some cheeseburgers for morgan in FFH..

 

[KingdomFlatbush]

Lol, this outlines how difficult the overall process was, how long it took to make certain decisions, the back and forth debates, the experts, the emotion etc. etc. then you're just like "eh, didn't like that choice". Not a call out by any means, just a general, funny observation to me of an artist's process vs. the reception

I mean I'm paying for the **** bruh. that's the nature of the game lol

I write software for a living and I promise you it's the same ****.

 

[blastercombo]

Technically SW is really a step below Jean Gray with the power of the Phoenix. Dare I say she might be above in terms of power. Unfortunately you can't display her power in the MCU or else it would be hard for casual fans to grasp.

Hopefully with the door they left open because of Captain America and Loki they can fix her powers. She should be much more powerful than she is shown in the MCU. She literally wiped out mutants from across the multiverse and stopped new ones from being born. Jean Gray or Rogue need to unlock her true powers.
​

Yeah. SW can alter reality and create new ones. They ain’t doing all that in the MCU. Would be the ultimate safe pass for all problems. She can solve all of them