I don't even know what you guys are talking about in this thread anymore
It would be a crazy Peter Parker take
Again, I at no point said that Miles had no value as a character.
I didn't either though. Not for Peter. This is about to be the 3rd time we see dude in HS.This difference of opinion has nothing to do with Miles instead of Peter being inherent.
I didn't say it wouldn't though. Of course teaming up with Marvel would benefit Spidey whoever is under the mask. I think you're ignoring how I'm connecting that fact with the past incarnations of Peter.
This is a baseless unsupported statement.
Just say you want to connect comic sales with box office sales cuz it helps your argument cuz it has nothing to do with reality.I didn't say that.
This is nonsense talk that has nothing to do with what I'm saying.
ASM went through the Clone Saga and Byrne's crap and still sold well. Uncanny X-Men has went through all sorts of crap and sold well. Same for Batman and JL. That's not the case with a guy like Cap or IM. Give them a **** story and sales will drop much more than they would on the aforementioned.I just don't see any reason why he can't appear before him. Especially in the context and under the circumstances of Peter Parker in film for the past decade +.
That's because of the continuity Miles was created in. That could easily and simply be changed. That's more of a comic thing than anything. Peter died. The whole world found out. It had a huge impact on stories going forward.
It would be a crazy Peter Parker take
Again, I at no point said that Miles had no value as a character.
How are you confusing seeing value in a character for a movie with has no value as a character?
You literally just ended up saying what I said initially and now your going to something else. We broke it down and all that and now you're talking about something else I didn't say and something I definitely didn't say you said.
so there's again no inherent need for Miles to be used over Peter.I didn't say it wouldn't though. Of course teaming up with Marvel would benefit Spidey whoever is under the mask. I think you're ignoring how I'm connecting that fact with the past incarnations of Peter.
Again this would be a completely different convo if SONY wasn't teaming up with Marvel. If they weren't they probably might've considered Miles that much more.
This is a baseless unsupported statement.
How can you prove this in any concrete way?
If comic sales had anything to do with comic book movies then why was Blade a success? Why was Ant-Man a success? Why was Guardians of the Galaxy a success?
You can not prove this or explain this based off a nonsensical comic sales stance. Especially when we're talking about Spider-Man. Spider-Man is the brand, not Peter Parker. So talking about ASM sales verses other Spider-titles is irrelevant as it pertains to movie box office.
Until you can provide some evidence that comic sales has anything to do with a movie's box office that's more than a superficial level I'm going to completely ignore this argument since it's not true in any sense that has to do with Miles vs. Peter.
I didn't say that.
I brought up SSM to show it wasn't Peter but Doc Ock and it sold just as well as when Peter was the protagonist.
That was a larger argument about why ASM continues to sell.
This is nonsense talk that has nothing to do with what I'm saying.
ASM sells, it'll always sell in the top 25, top 10 when a good creative is on the title, regardless of who is under Spider-Man's mask.
Bringing up Captain America is extremely irrelevant. That book isn't a top seller. You seemed to miss my argument about Batman, Justice League, Amazing Spider-Man and Uncanny X-Men. I sure as hell didn't bring up Captain America
You should know historically, Cap, Thor, IM, Guardians of the Galaxy, etc. never really consistently sold huge #s. So heroes being replaced and sales rising or dropping have more to do with the story and whether the dedicated fans are willing to roll with it.
I just don't see any reason why he can't appear before him. Especially in the context and under the circumstances of Peter Parker in film for the past decade +
That to me comes off as baseless and just a random assumption being made due to Spider-Man being as popular as he is. Sales can drop because of a change in character, sales can drop because of a change in writer, sales can drop because of the quality of the writing, etc.
All I did was copy and paste what I originally said to you
What version of Peter Parker is this?
If this is your idea of fresh then you can't deny in comparison Miles origin would be fresher.
None of this is proof that comic sales have anything to do with a movie's box office.
So far that's exactly how it's been.
Do you have evidence proving this?
This is something you literally can not prove. It's literally if this, if that talk.
Why are you contradicting yourself?
I'm only talking about Amazing Spider-Man since you chose to say that Miles comic has always been outsold by that. It shows you've been completely ignoring the significance of ASM.
Captain America is a terrible example with what I'm talking about with ASM. Terrible. That title doesn't sell well historically. Not even recently. Even before the change to Falcon.
I think you're completely missing what I'm saying now and trying to switch this to a topic of do Spider-Man sales drop or not
When was this?And no, ASM will not always sell in the Top 10 or 25 because there have been numerous times when it hasn't, when it's had the exact same creative team.
Yeah you're definitely trying to switch the topic now
That's fine. I didn't really ask.
Nobody can make you see solid reasons if you don't want to see them man.
I aint eeem read them anymoreBruh these walls of textlol
Naruto post time-skip sucks. What is there to argue about past that?
tdogg2k
Word, those Naruto arguments dragged on But i'm used to both, because i'm on comic and anime forums as well as this one.All I did was copy and paste what I originally said to you
Seeing value in a character isn't the same thing as what you said "seeing value as a character"
Furthermore, I'm talking about seeing the value in a character for film. You just said you don't see it or to be accurate you don't see enough value. That's basically what I originally said that you denied.
So what are you confused about here? Is what you said "Don't see enough value in him to think...." really that different than what I originally said? or is the word "enough" some key thing I'm missing?
What version of Peter Parker is this?
Is he not a socially awkward boy genius that has a Uncle Ben that dies, lives with his Aunt May, and gains spider powers from a spider bite?
Clue me in if you know more than the rest of us.
If this is your idea of fresh then you can't deny in comparison Miles origin would be fresher.
What you just described sounds like rehashes of SM1 and ASM as far as Peter's origins go.
None of this is proof that comic sales have anything to do with a movie's box office.
So far that'se exactly how it's been.
Do you have evidence proving this?
Cuz sales were high as hell during the Clone Saga and with Byrne's attempt at a reboot. Those were two mostly hated or at least disliked runs of Spidey. A lot of ppl don't like McFarlane's stuff, that sold some of the highest.
This is something you literally can not prove. It's literally if this, if that talk.
Not to mention there was a whole lot of controversy and ppl not liking SSM. So much so death threats were sent to Dan Slott for what he did in ASM 700.
Looking @ ASM's sales history I'd say you're wrong.
Why are you contradicting yourself?
You just said if ppl had not liked the switch to Doc Ock sales would have tanked. Now you're saying in general it will always sell. Make up your mind.
I'm only talking about Amazing Spider-Man since you chose to say that Miles comic has always been outsold by that. It shows you've been completely ignoring the significance of ASM.
I'm not talking about all comics. I'm not talking about other heroes being replaced and sales dropping. The only other comics I mentioned were the ones that I know continually sell historically.
Captain America is a terrible example with what I'm talking about with ASM. Terrible. That title doesn't sell well historically. Not even recently. Before the change to Falcon.
I think you're completely missing what I'm saying now and trying to switch this to a topic of do Spider-Man sales drop or not
Not falling for it guy.
When was this?And no, ASM will not always sell in the Top 10 or 25 because there have been numerous times when it hasn't, when it's had the exact same creative team.
Yeah you're definitely trying to switch the topic now
I'll just go back to saying show me how comic sales has anything to do with a movie's box office cuz as far as facts go the exact opposite is true.
That's fine. I didn't really ask.
You said it like that meant something. Some ppl see things differently than you.
Nobody can make you see solid reasons if you don't want to see them man.
I said this to someone else already but it can easily be rewritten in a way Parker has no bearing on his origin. Since for the most part the meat and potatoes of Miles origin has nothing to do with Peter Parker. He gets his powers while Peter is still alive. He was already getting use to them and using them. It's Pete's death that has him decide to pursue it but that can be changed to something else spurring him on like his criminal uncle or Venom hunting him down or some interaction with Bombshell.
There's no denying that when looking at the bare bones of it, both Peter and Miles are HSers that get super powers and become superheroes. So obviously those same chords would be hit. Trying to fight crime and finish homework while hiding it from your parents and the social drama of being a teenager.
You'd have to show these ppl are going there for Peter Parker specifically and not Spider-Man.Again, common sense should tell you that the fans of a comic book character are going to see the comic book character on film.
C'mon now. That's flawed reasoning while ignoring so many other things.I'm not comparing ASM sales to anything. High sales as in consistently a top seller, among the best. If you want to put #s on it or go by ranking I don't think it'd matter.
If you're gonna compare Superior you should do it anually to ASM either the volume after or before.
To me that goes against your hypothetical argument.
This is a hypothetical argument you can not prove.
Rising and falling between 15k and 30k is completely different
I'm sorry but issue #1s and a bunch of variant covers really shouldn't factor in to this discussion. Pretty dishonest if we're being serious.
I know what I said. I'm standing by it.
I said this to someone else already but it can easily be rewritten in a way Parker has no bearing on his origin. Since for the most part the meat and potatoes of Miles origin has nothing to do with Peter Parker. He gets his powers while Peter is still alive. He was already getting use to them and using them. It's Pete's death that has him decide to pursue it but that can be changed to something else spurring him on like his criminal uncle or Venom hunting him down or some interaction with Bombshell.
There's no denying that when looking at the bare bones of it, both Peter and Miles are HSers that get super powers and become superheroes. So obviously those same chords would be hit. Trying to fight crime and finish homework while hiding it from your parents and the social drama of being a teenager.
But that's not a knock against Miles. If it is, it'd be a knock against every teenage superhero. That's just the way it is.
You'd have to show these ppl are going there for Peter Parker specifically and not Spider-Man.Again, common sense should tell you that the fans of a comic book character are going to see the comic book character on film.
That's another point that kinda connects to my ASM argument. It's a Spider-Man movie. Spidey fans are coming out regardless.
Your argument can't be so simple to say that ASM sells 100k and Miles Spidey book sells 50k therefore A movie with Peter is guaranteed to have 50k more ticket sales
I'm not comparing ASM sales to anything. High sales as in consistently a top seller, among the best. If you want to put #s on it or go by ranking I don't think it'd matter.
Comic book sales dropping is nothing I ever argued against. A comic that sells the most would naturally drop in sales from issue #1 to #2.
I'm not interested in arguing if sales drop or not. Never was my argument.
If you're gonna compare Superior you should do it anually to ASM either the volume after or before.
To me that goes against your hypothetical argument.
You're the one that said if fans didn't like it, sales would tank. What do you classify as tanking? Not selling the same amount as it did that time last year? Less than 50k? 20k? 2k?
Fans definitely didn't like SSM. You can assume they stopped buying after #1 if you want. All that means is the story brought in more fans. That kinda just shows what I'm talking about who is under Spidey's mask in ASM if you want to talk about that book selling more than Miles book. Hypothetically speaking, if a volume ASM came out and it was revealed it was Miles under Spidey's mask it'd maintain ASM #s on average.
This is a hypothetical argument you can not prove.
What is universally hated? People seem to universally hate the Clone Saga. That sold like crazy. So either the term universally hated doesn't really mean anything and ASM will sell well
I mean sell well as in it will generally rank among the top on average and boost in sales depending on story. So if ASM's base is something like 80k, it'll stay around there and go up depending on the next event.
Rising and falling between 15k and 30k is completely different
I'm sorry but issue #1s and a bunch of variant covers really shouldn't factor in to this discussion. Pretty dishonest if we're being serious.
ASM on issue #566 shouldn't be compared to SS#1 that has 8 variant covers or any other incentive.
I know what I said. I'm standing by it.
ASM in general will always sell well. A good story (according to fans as a whole) only boosts sales. Only a truly terrible story (Peter Parker kills babies and becomes the Anti-christ) would tank sales. So with that in mind, it's no surprise that Ben Reilly in ASM still did similar huge #s as when Peter was Spidey. To go even further, SSM sold better than ASM if you compare it year by year. According to you, Doc Ock as Spidey is more popular than Peter as Spidey and Doc Ock in a SSM movie would lead to a bigger box office than previous Peter incarnations.
I'm sure if Miles would put in to ASM and Peter was given another adjective things would remain consistent for ASM.
My argument from the start had nothing to do with guaranteed sales one way or the other, and was simply stating that the sales of a comic book are a good indication of how many fans a character has, which could in turn indicate how films based around two different characters would do in general and in relation to each other. Now, as i've also pointed out, this isn't just the one indicator that matters. Just like the fact that ASM2 didn't do so hot isn't the only indicator of how a future Spider-Man film might do. There are many different factors, and I was saying that comic sales were one. Though in general I consider tanking to be either a dramatic decrease based on what prior sales were or a steady decrease (by the thousands of course) over time. Go from 100,00K to 90K to 85, to 80, and lower and lower i'd say the book is slowly tanking, or fast depending on how large the jumps were between the issues. Even at those numbers, it could still be hitting the top 25 for a time, based on that year, but unless it evens out i'd call it a tank. Because unless comic sales are going down all across the board to indicate something effecting readers as a whole, the series isn't succeeding. It can be looked at in the biggest cases (Such as comparing the sales of Justice League to those of the Simpsons) in a case by case basis, but you can pretty easily determine if a series is tanking or not based on the numbers. Does that mean the book itself will go under? Maybe, maybe not. That'd depend on the higher ups at the company (And for the Simpsons they'd probably be thrilled either way because both are far more than double what they usually get.) For Spider-Man or Justice League it'd probably at least cause a change in the writer though.
for anyone who are fans.
