WELCOME TO THE MARVEL MULTIVERSE -*RIP STAN LEE & Boseman* - Deadpool & Wolverine = 07/26/24

[Armada]

The accords caused a divide in there views on how they should act but it did not cause the actual fighting and what would have given us that airport scene. If Zemo never framed Bucky Cap wouldn't have needed to break the law by helping a terrorist escape custody making him a wanted fugitive as well and any who helped him protect Bucky to get to Zemo after that became wanted as well. Iron Man and his squad while they where still in the dark about Zemo was tasked to bring them in by force if needed and then a we got the airport scene because of that.

If Zemo never framed Bucky or wasn't in the movie at all I don't think they would have ever physically fought just over the accords by itself because Zemos actions where ultimately the catalyst for that physical confrontation. Now that doesn't mean he planned for them to fight at the airport at all but his actions just caused it. They would have just debated the accords around a table but never actually fought about anything if Zemo was never in this movie.

 

[mgrand15]

But what happens when the heroes who didn't sign the accord start doing their own thing or a villain rolls through? They can't keep discussing around a table. Either they need to be stopped from being vigilantes or the accords mean nothing. That's kind of a huge thing looming over the group before Zemo does anything to them.

 

[Armada]

Its a huge thing but I don't think they would have started throwing hands over people not signing thats an extreme reaction to that. And yeah of course if someone down the line and decided to go rouge yeah they would have had to be caught and brought in and it would have lead to a fight. The things is the scenario you are describing is exactly the scenario Zemo created by framing Bucky, his actions lead to Cap do his own thing and caused that extra push to an actual fight that more than likely would not have happened if it was just about should we sign or not. He forced Cap and Sam to go rogue which lead to further conflict which required an extreme reaction like fighting cause now its not just about signing the papers its about laws have been broken and you helped a terrorist escape and you won't stop so now we need to fight you to stop they never wanted to fight they just had to because of circumstances.

 

[Cashflow]

Chris Hemsworth’s double eats 35 meals a day to look like him

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/chris-hemsworth-double-eats-35-meals-day-article-1.2638656

 

[alleyzonjay]

one question i had was why did Zemo kill the other Winter Soldiers? when Cap, Bucky and Iron Man showed up i thought they were gonna be in trouble.

 

[mgrand15]

The team would have an enemy to unite against. Opposite of what he wanted. Also relates to his empire quote.

 

[paulwest1985]

You don't even have to criticize the movie, just make an observation about the villain to get the feels out?

Is he wrong that the Accords is what really causes the divide? Half the team was going to be forced to retire or be considered criminals. Zemo obviously escalated it by involving Bucky + BP but conflict was still looming. Tony went to help because he thought Cap was in trouble and undermanned (since they locked up his team) but the beef wasn't over - the central disagreement is still there.

But what happens when the heroes who didn't sign the accord start doing their own thing or a villain rolls through? They can't keep discussing around a table. Either they need to be stopped from being vigilantes or the accords mean nothing. That's kind of a huge thing looming over the group before Zemo does anything to them.

Finally, some people get it!! 

 

[everysingletime]

Lol let's say Zemo didn't poke the nest and other ppl would've eventually gone rogue over some other thing...

Going rogue wasn't enough to cost any permanent repercussions.. As soon as Tony saw that he was wrong about who the real bomber was, he was down to go rogue too...follow Cap's lead and all.

Someone like Bucky really needed to be the catalyst.

The argument you guys are trying to make is really flimsy at best

 

[Mambalorian]

No Zemo framing Bucky and it wouldn't have come down to fighting. Every time Cap's side saved someone IM's side would just let them go and act like they got there too late or somethin.

 

[everysingletime]

one question i had was why did Zemo kill the other Winter Soldiers? when Cap, Bucky and Iron Man showed up i thought they were gonna be in trouble.

Cap IM Bucky and BP would've washed those winter soldiers easily


Happily ever after and all that.

 

[tr1ll]

Zemo framed Bucky because he know Cap was gonna cut for him, causing the divide.

Even if Zemo spied on the UN, theres no way he could've known the team's reaction to the Accords.

 

[everysingletime]

theres no way he could've know the team's reaction to the Accords.

Yup.

 

[Mambalorian]

http://comicbook.com/2016/05/16/pet...micbook.com Daily Newsletter&utm_content=Link

The petition to bring Agent Carter to Netflix has over 50k signatures since the cancellation announcement and another 10k+ since this morning.

Hopefully it gets some more traction.

Link to sign the petition is here https://www.change.org/p/netflix-save-agent-carter-bring-her-to-netflix

#hayleyatwellsboobsmatter #youknowwhoyouare

 

[everysingletime]

I stopped watching Agent Carter halfway through the second season

Is it really worth bringing back?

 

[jays25]

Iron Man- Obadiah Stane
The Incredible Hulk- Abomination
Iron Man 2- Ivan Vanko and Justin Hammer
Thor- Loki
Captain America: The First Avenger- Red Skull and Arnim Zola
The Avengers- Loki and The Chitauri

Iron Man 3- Aldrich Killian
Thor: The Dark World- Malekith
Captain America: The Winter Soldier- Winter Soldier
Guardians of the Galaxy- Ronin
Avengers: Age of Ultron- Ultron
Ant-Man- Yellowjacket

Captain America: Civil War- Zemo

Daredevil- Wilson Fisk and Nobu, various other crime bosses, along with Punisher I suppose (As an antagonist at least)

Jessica Jones- Kilgrave

I then haven't seen either Agents of Shield or Agent Carter, so I can't speak on the villains in those shows, but looking at the list I couldn't ever see how Zemo would be in the bottom 3 Don't know if he'd be in the Top 3 either, but he's fairly high at least.

 

[Armada]

Spoiler: Daredevil spolier kinda I guess

When Wilson Fisk crushed that dudes head in the car door 

 

[Master Zik]

Well we never did see the more improved winter soldiers at work. Just those short scenes where they beat the **** out of a Bucky in mission mode and then started killing the guards and everybody else in the room.

Bucky does clearly say they're all worse than him. So while they can topple a country from within, blend in anywhere better than him. I assume they are all stronger, faster, and more focused than him as well. They also seemed to be able to brush off their programming or sort of extend orders the way they started killing everybody and that guard giving the command codes was so shook he needed Bucky to escort him out.

I'd assume the super winter soldiers don't suffer from any weaknesses Bucky has; temporarily regaining memories, all that hesitation and doubt, etc.

I mean even in full mission mode he had one dumb plan when Steve was holding the helicopter Instead of just swerve in and then out so Steve would lose his grip or get his arm torn off he tilted that **** all the way in trying to kill him the propellers with no plan on how to survive the helicopter crashing and washed himself (imagine if there was no water? He'd die in an explosion).

Well realistically speaking as soon as Steve moved his arm to adjust its position that copter would've taken off and he'd have been dead

When Steve switched grips I was just like

They must think us stupid. That let me know if there was a helicopter it was just hovering in place

A question I have if anyone knows, Would Silver Surfer be able to wash anyone in the Avengers including Hulk and Thor?

He can match both. With no knowledge about each other, Surfer would overpower both (shooting the power cosmic) one on one but he can't match Hulk in raw strengthand Thor could raise his power to match Surfer's.

MCU Thor doesn't have all the magic comic Thor has though. Plus I'm imagining a MCU Surfer to be nearly the as the comic version.

The constant BvS vs CW is as annoying as the Team Cap/IM flamewar

cap vs iron man >>>>>> bvs v CW >>>>> bvs

FACTS

Besides that BvS crap hasn't come up much since the right when the movie came out. Still waiting on examples of Martha moments in CW though

Lol at Zemo being bottom 3..


The worst mcu villain > whoever that whiny kid in BvS was

Zemo was a non-factor in CW. Might as well have left him out of the film completely. 

If Zemo wasn't in this movie, there is no airport scene or any other fight really. Black Panther never shows up neither does Spidey, Ant-Man, or Hawkeye.

I feel like I'm repeating myself but this would've just been Avengers arguing and then discussing them debating and then compromising on signing the accords. Steve and Tony would still be cool, Bucky would've bought his plums and been chilling in Bucharest. Vision maybe smashes Wanda after consoling her about what happened in Lagos.

T'Chaka wouldve gave his speech, maybe Natasha says something, she publicly signs and endorses the accords. The world moves on. Avengers adjust to oversight as they were meant to and should.

You'd have to create some scenario where Ross is way more unreasonable to create conflict and by then this movie isn't Civil War.

I'd say you should really think on the role Zemo played in this to recognize his importance. Even with the plot contrivances and coincidences to make his plan work and get ppl in the right place, even if you don't like him. He was a good villain and necessary even if you don't like him.

 

[tr1ll]

Iron Man- Obadiah Stane
The Incredible Hulk- Abomination
Iron Man 2- Ivan Vanko and Justin Hammer
Thor- Loki
Captain America: The First Avenger- Red Skull and Arnim Zola
The Avengers- Loki and The Chitauri

Iron Man 3- Aldrich Killian
Thor: The Dark World- Malekith
Captain America: The Winter Soldier- Winter Soldier
Guardians of the Galaxy- Ronin
Avengers: Age of Ultron- Ultron
Ant-Man- Yellowjacket

Captain America: Civil War- Zemo

Daredevil- Wilson Fisk and Nobu, various other crime bosses, along with Punisher I suppose (As an antagonist at least)

Jessica Jones- Kilgrave

I then haven't seen either Agents of Shield or Agent Carter, so I can't speak on the villains in those shows, but looking at the list I couldn't ever see how Zemo would be in the bottom 3 Don't know if he'd be in the Top 3 either, but he's fairly high at least.

Zemo got really lucky, tbh.

That wouldn't have played out they way he wanted it wasnt for the Accords.

 

[tay1]

Zemo got really lucky, tbh.

That wouldn't have played out they way he wanted it wasnt for the Accords.

What does this even mean. That's why he said what he said when he tortured the guy for the mission report. He waited and planned for the right moment

 

[tr1ll]

Zemo got really lucky, tbh.


That wouldn't have played out they way he wanted it wasnt for the Accords.

What does this even mean. That's why he said what he said when he tortured the guy for the mission report. He waited and planned for the right moment

Even if Zemo spied on the UN, theres no way he could've known the team's reaction to the Accords.

 

[tr1ll]

In actuality, the Accords was a plot moving device. Without it, Bucky would've gor framed, Cap would've tried to cape and everyone would've been like, "Cap, you trippin." The team wouldn't have split over Bucky.

 

[Master Zik]

Zemo, with prep time, did what Loki tried to do with an army of Chitauri. If that fails to impress, I dont know what it takes.

What Loki tried to do? That would imply that Loki failed in what he was trying to do. I tend to think that Loki's plan is going exactly like he wanted as of right now.

Loki did not plan to lose the battle of NY and get beat like a ragdoll by the Hulk. He wanted tobwin and lost.

It's only when he rebounded while held in Asgardian jail and took advantage of Malekith's destroy all reality plot that his new plan began to work and he starts to pose as Odin.

You don't even have to criticize the movie, just make an observation about the villain to get the feels out?

Is he wrong that the Accords is what really causes the divide? Half the team was going to be forced to retire or be considered criminals. Zemo obviously escalated it by involving Bucky + BP but conflict was still looming. Tony went to help because he thought Cap was in trouble and undermanned (since they locked up his team) but the beef wasn't over - the central disagreement is still there.

The central disagreement doesn't cause a fight though. They'd either sign and keep helping stop Hydra and other world threats or retire.

Like the Avengers were originally intended to be when Shield were the ones doing the overseeing. The issue is something the Avengers originally had in one form and now a bunch of new ppl and a dumb captain they're smart and responsible enough to do it own their own which they clearly are not.

 

[rfx45]

I will say this, without referencing the other Zemos of past, Helmut feels more like a generic villain that could be replaced by any generic villain, so to me it was kind of a waste to use that moniker on him. Sure they could touch on it in the future but I think as a comic book fan, him having a deeper comic book history would have made him a better character in this movie.

I guess (again being a comic book fan) I kind of wanted the hint of the Masters of Evil in the future too but with Zemos regular/cliched history, it seems less likely.

Can't help but almost compare him to Strucker, they didn't need to use the name if they aren't to go deeper to the character.

Maybe it's just me...



As for luck, I still think Zemo got lucky that Falcon told Tony where Cap and Bucky went. The ending was all dependent on that one event occurring and if Falcon had kept his mouth shut, his plan would have crumbled to pieces.

 

[tay1]

Even if Zemo spied on the UN, theres no way he could've known the team's reaction to the Accords.

This is just nitpicking. I don't know if that's the right word to use. So what he didn't know. If they would've reacted differently, he could've easily reacted differently.

In actuality, the Accords was a plot moving device. Without it, Bucky would've gor framed, Cap would've tried to cape and everyone would've been like, "Cap, you trippin." The team wouldn't have split over Bucky.

This doesn't mean much. That's just like saying Iron Man being stranded in the desert is a plot moving device. Without that, he doesn't become IM.

 

[KingdomFlatbush]

Zemo, with prep time, did what Loki tried to do with an army of Chitauri. If that fails to impress, I dont know what it takes.

What is this? Loki failed but his goal was to conquer the Earth via invasion, kill the Avengers, and deliver the Tesseract to Thanos.

Last I checked post CW and Zemo's contrivance, all Avengers are alive, the earth seems to be doing OK, and Cap and Tony are at least on the road to reconciliation.

Hell there are two NEW superheroes