WELCOME TO THE MARVEL MULTIVERSE -*RIP STAN LEE & Boseman* - Deadpool & Wolverine = 07/26/24

[tay1]

What is this?

Loki failed but his goal was to conquer the Earth, kill the Avengers, and deliver the Tesseract to Thanos.

Last I checked post CW all Avengers are alive, the earth seems to be doing OK, and Cap and Tony are at least in the road to reconciliation

Hell there are two NEW superheroes

Loki attempted to crumble the Avengers from within. You know like how they were all arguing in the Hellacarrier. Part of his goal was to divide them. Something he failed to do.

 

[tr1ll]

I cant give Zemo the "diabolical" label...much less Top villain.

Hes plan coulda fell apart too many ways...

 

[paulwest1985]

I cant give Zemo the "diabolical" label...much less Top villain.

Hes plan coulda fell apart too many ways...

Facts!

 

[raider5]

Top Villain? Maybe for MCU standards...

 

[tdogg2k]

why do I owe Amel reps.............We disagree way too much.


Accords wouldve had them going through a battle at least once (same as comic had them)

Need my man Frank Castle to come through on Team Vigilante Cap and take care of all them Tony supporters.

 

[Master Zik]

I cant give Zemo the "diabolical" label...much less Top villain.

Hes plan coulda fell apart too many ways...

He's not really diabolical. His plan was cold and calculated and about revenge.

It's fine if he doesn't get the top villain title. I can understand giving it to Fisk or Killgrave.

Not buying it if you trying to put Loki or Red Skull or Whiplash over him.

But what happens when the heroes who didn't sign the accord start doing their own thing or a villain rolls through? They can't keep discussing around a table. Either they need to be stopped from being vigilantes or the accords mean nothing. That's kind of a huge thing looming over the group before Zemo does anything to them.

Ross made it very clear.

They'd be arrested and they were, their gear was taken from those who didn't own it. Hard to stop threats when you're perceived as one as well. It's not something they could reasonably keep up.

If another villain shows up the Avengers that signed would take care of it. Just like what is implied by the end of the movie. Steve says in the letter to Tony call if you need help. It doesn't sound like he'll be openly going on missions. If anything his team will now be operating secretly.

Tony is now the leader of the Avengers that signed the accords. He'll most likely fill out the roster spots with other powered ppl he's been keeping track of or maybe Ross will provide an exceptional soldier or 2 (good opportunity to introduce Cap Marvel and an undercover Mar-Vell (see the Ultimate comics coming of Galactus stories)).

 

[raider5]

Besides the Tony's parents getting the axe being a bit of a reach, I didn't understand the reasoning behind blaming the Avengers for some of these actions...

A1: Not really their fault. An Alien invasion that had nothing to do with the Avengers until they came and saved the day.

WS: Hydra initiated tasks. Not an Avengers or a "Super" Human initiated issue, more so just the team reacting towards the escalation of the problem. 

A2: Yeah, totally Tony and Bruce's bad. That is more controllable than Hulk going ape **** in Africa. Totally an issue.

CW: When Cross Bones got kilt, casualties yes - but under a UN governed body, I'm not sure how less people would have been saved?

To put the blame on the Avengers for these problems...meh...

I might be reaching on these, and feel free to correct me if I missed something...but I don't get the criticism that they get from Gen. Ross and the UN to begin with...

 

[Mark Antony]

Iron Man- Obadiah Stane
The Incredible Hulk- Abomination
Iron Man 2- Ivan Vanko and Justin Hammer
Thor- Loki
Captain America: The First Avenger- Red Skull and Arnim Zola
The Avengers- Loki and The Chitauri

Iron Man 3- Aldrich Killian
Thor: The Dark World- Malekith
Captain America: The Winter Soldier- Winter Soldier
Guardians of the Galaxy- Ronin
Avengers: Age of Ultron- Ultron
Ant-Man- Yellowjacket

Captain America: Civil War- Zemo

Daredevil- Wilson Fisk and Nobu, various other crime bosses, along with Punisher I suppose (As an antagonist at least)

Jessica Jones- Kilgrave

I then haven't seen either Agents of Shield or Agent Carter, so I can't speak on the villains in those shows, but looking at the list I couldn't ever see how Zemo would be in the bottom 3 Don't know if he'd be in the Top 3 either, but he's fairly high at least.

Zemo got really lucky, tbh.

That wouldn't have played out they way he wanted it wasnt for the Accords.

He needs to send Honda a check.

 

[Master Zik]

one question i had was why did Zemo kill the other Winter Soldiers? when Cap, Bucky and Iron Man showed up i thought they were gonna be in trouble.

Cap IM Bucky and BP would've washed those winter soldiers easily


Happily ever after and all that.

Not unless he shows them the vid first and then Zemo releases them ordering them to kill Cap first

5 on 1 would occupy Cap.

That way you may get a scene of Tony having to choose between the killing blow on Bucky or saving Steve's life.

Zemo got really lucky, tbh.

That wouldn't have played out they way he wanted it wasnt for the Accords.

This probably true until the end. Tony sees the vid and he probably has to fight like 8 other Avengers while trying to kill Bucky.

However, if Zemo is aware how many more ppl are coming he probably doesn't kill the super winter soldiers.

 

[Master Zik]

Besides the Tony's parents getting the axe being a bit of a reach, I didn't understand the reasoning behind blaming the Avengers for some of these actions...

CW: When Cross Bones got kilt, casualties yes - but under a UN governed body, I'm not sure how less people would have been saved?

To put the blame on the Avengers for these problems...meh...

I might be reaching on these, and feel free to correct me if I missed something...but I don't get the criticism that they get from Gen. Ross and the UN to begin with...

If Cap told the defense Dept. of Lagos they were apprehending terrorist in their city they could've planned better for it to avoid that area being that crowded possibly.

And again (I've said it before), they may have suggested instead of engaging Crossbones there they simply wait and tail him until he's out of the city. Less ppl, less casualties.

Can't knock the rest if you think about it. In NY they had Shield oversight until what happened in DC and there was no time oversight from the US government.

 

[goldmember]

I really want to see those WS against IM, Cap, BP and Bucky

Even if they show the vid first. Maybe they can have bucky save Tony's life at one point.

Although i think they could've easily wash those WS anyway

 

[Mambalorian]

What is this? Loki failed but his goal was to conquer the Earth via invasion, kill the Avengers, and deliver the Tesseract to Thanos.

Loki attempted to crumble the Avengers from within. You know like how they were all arguing in the Hellacarrier. Part of his goal was to divide them. Something he failed to do.

I just don't think there's enough to say Loki failed. Did he really want Earth? Or was Asgard the real prize? Do you think Loki was really going to give the tesseract to Thanos?

I know it may seem like he failed but he only failed if this wasn't all part of his plan. I recall an interview where Hiddleston said himself that Loki has been waiting and plotting a longtime and that perhaps the run in with the Avengers was all apart of his plan to get take Thanos' attention off him and onto Earth and why he never made a play to get scepter back.

 

[jays25]

No, per Avengers Loki completely failed. He then made a new plan that we'll see in Ragnarok. Nothing to imply that he intended for the Avengers to whoop his *** in their first film.

I cant give Zemo the "diabolical" label...much less Top villain.

Hes plan coulda fell apart too many ways...

He's not really diabolical. His plan was cold and calculated and about revenge.

It's fine if he doesn't get the top villain title. I can understand giving it to Fisk or Killgrave.

Not buying it if you trying to put Loki or Red Skull or Whiplash over him.

Pretty much.

 

[tr1ll]

one question i had was why did Zemo kill the other Winter Soldiers? when Cap, Bucky and Iron Man showed up i thought they were gonna be in trouble.

Cap IM Bucky and BP would've washed those winter soldiers easily


Happily ever after and all that.

Not unless he shows them the vid first and then Zemo releases them ordering them to kill Cap first

5 on 1 would occupy Cap.

That way you may get a scene of Tony having to.choose between the killing blow on Bucky or saving Steve's life.

Zemo got really lucky, tbh.

That wouldn't have played out they way he wanted it wasnt for the Accords.

This probably true until the end. Tony sees the vid and he probably has to fight like 8 other Avengers while trying to kill Bucky.

However, if Zemo is aware how many more ppl are coming he probably doesn't kill the super winter soldiers.

You're right. I forgot about the overly conviently placed camera in the middle of know where that Bucky looks right into after being told to leave no witnesses.

With that being said, Zemo's plan didn't "almost **** up", it DID **** up. His plan was for everyone to be there when Tony saw the vid.

He only got Tony and Cap because pretty much everyone else was locked up.

 

[jays25]

Besides the Tony's parents getting the axe being a bit of a reach, I didn't understand the reasoning behind blaming the Avengers for some of these actions...

How was that a reach? Winter Soldier showed this to be the case years ago. All this added was that it was specifically Bucky that did it.

The issue with the incident at the start of Civil War is that Cap and his team were operating in another country that none of them is a citizen of, without informing the government of said nation or even the local law enforcement. You then have an international incident occur while this is happening. The argument then becomes that the Avengers shouldn't have been operating there without any kind of oversight at all in the same way that American soldiers aren't just going to be sent to Europe without consulting the government. Had the government been informed any number of measures could've been taken. Hell, that entire area could have been evacuated from the jump.

 

[Mambalorian]

No, per Avengers Loki completely failed. He then made a new plan that we'll see in Ragnarok. Nothing to imply that he intended for the Avengers to whoop his *** in their first film.

I don't know. I'm just saying I don't think it's as cut and dry as people think. Of course he didn't mean to get Hulk smashed but there's other things. Loki didn't even have to be there fighting. He could've been somewhere else. Just simply giving himself up would've been to obvious. He made it appear like he didn't want to go back to Asgard.

I wouldn't be shocked at all if it's explained in detail in the next film.

 

[jays25]

Sounds like you're reaching to make Loki seem better than he is

 

[Mambalorian]

Sounds like you're reaching to make Loki seem better than he is

You can't say that I'm reaching when it's what Hiddleston said.

Also, he's the God of mischief. If Zemo was able to bring his plan into fruition, surely the God of mischief could. He deceives. He creates illusions.

 

[jays25]

Sounds like you're reaching to make Loki seem better than he is

You can't say that I'm reaching when it's what Hiddleston said.

Also, he's the God of mischief. If Zemo was able to bring his plan into fruition, surely the God of mischief could. He deceives. He creates illusions.

Post the interview where he said that please.

And he fails all the time Being the God of Mischief or any other realm doesn't mean a guaranteed win.

 

[raider5]

How was that a reach? Winter Soldier showed this to be the case years ago. All this added was that it was specifically Bucky that did it.

The issue with the incident at the start of Civil War is that Cap and his team were operating in another country that none of them is a citizen of, without informing the government of said nation or even the local law enforcement. You then have an international incident occur while this is happening. The argument then becomes that the Avengers shouldn't have been operating there without any kind of oversight at all in the same way that American soldiers aren't just going to be sent to Europe without consulting the government. Had the government been informed any number of measures could've been taken. Hell, that entire area could have been evacuated from the jump.

This makes sense. Makes me really question why did no one even consider this after A1 when going international? Bruce or Tony should have considered this 

Regarding WS, I'm not questioning why or how he did it...just the overall convenience of how things played out to be a bit of a reach. WS forces a car crash into a tree that happens to be between two cameras located in a 2 lane road/highway. I need to watch it a second time, I don't recall what/if there was a building there. I'm just assuming there was some kinda building there for the cameras to be there.

And why TF is Howard Stark rollin with wifey with the serum in the trunk? Was she involved with Shield? Don't know much about Tony's mom...Regardless, that serum needs to be treated in an Air Force 1 type security transportation...

Then the convenience of Zemo's master plan to actually lure Tony to showcase the video. I'm sure you guys talked about that endlessly by now...

 

[Mambalorian]

Post the interview where he said that please.

And he fails all the time Being the God of Mischief or any other realm doesn't mean a guaranteed win.

I'm not going to waste my time and find that to make you believe me lol. It's not that serious. I said I read it awhile ago. Again, you don't have to believe that he planned the events of Avengers 1, but there's definitely plenty of people who do.

Why would Loki want Earth? Why? Dude had the Tesseract and could've even went after the power stone against Malakith. What did he do? He faked his death and let the stones go. He doesn't care about having the power of either infinity stones. He wants Asgard. Even Tony hints at that in the movie.

If you think he legit wanted NYC and got beat, ok. I legit think that being taken in chains back to Asgard is more believable than "Thor, let's go home".

 

[jays25]

Post the interview where he said that please.

And he fails all the time Being the God of Mischief or any other realm doesn't mean a guaranteed win.

I'm not going to waste my time and find that to make you believe me lol. It's not that serious. I said I read it awhile ago. Again, you don't have to believe that he planned the events of Avengers 1, but there's definitely plenty of people who do.

Why would Loki want Earth? Why? Dude had the Tesseract and could've even went after the power stone against Malakith. What did he do? He faked his death and let the stones go. He doesn't care about having the power of either infinity stones. He wants Asgard. Even Tony hints at that in the movie.

If you think he legit wanted NYC and got beat, ok. I legit think that being taken in chains back to Asgard is more believable than "Thor, let's go home".

Then yeah I just plain don't believe you

Becuase Loki wants to be a king. He said it straight up in the film

And why TF is Howard Stark rollin with wifey with the serum in the trunk? Was she involved with Shield? Don't know much about Tony's mom...Regardless, that serum needs to be treated in an Air Force 1 type security transportation...

Realistically yeah, Howard was being reckless as hell there And he easily could've had top level security. He helped found Shield and owned his own massive company Son kind of asked for somebody to take him out.

 

[Mambalorian]

Then yeah I just plain don't believe you

Becuase Loki wants to be a king. He said it straight up in the film
Realistically yeah, Howard was being reckless as hell there And he easily could've had top level security. He helped found Shield and owned his own massive company Son kind of asked for somebody to take him out.

He wants to be king of Asgard. Just like Tony said "there's no throne here". But we'll see who's right. Get ready to hold this L tho.

 

[jays25]

Then yeah I just plain don't believe you

Becuase Loki wants to be a king. He said it straight up in the film
Realistically yeah, Howard was being reckless as hell there And he easily could've had top level security. He helped found Shield and owned his own massive company Son kind of asked for somebody to take him out.

He wants to be king of Asgard. Just like Tony said "there's no throne here". But we'll see who's right. Get ready to hold this L tho.

He wants to be king of everything. Neither Earth or Asgard satisfies him. We'll see though.

 

[Mambalorian]

With DC revealing a Harley Quinn movie is in the works, Marvel will probably go forward with a Black Widow film