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I mean, thats prolly a good estimate 33%, but the world isnt as bad as it seems. its just that the negative always outshines the positive.
Its easier to pinpoint and talk about.
What has happened to black families vol 72% illegitimacy rate
- Thread in 'General' Thread starter Started by scientific method,
- Start date
Its easier to pinpoint and talk about.
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There are not more homosexual black men then any other race. How can that possibly be the reason why the black family structure is broken? The other factors, incarceration rate + lower education in poorer areas, are much more likely scenarios.
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Yea, that's even lamer than the "system" excuse. The bigger part of the problem, as they also represent a bigger segment of the population, is hetero black men with infantile education who think life is or should be a Hype Williams video.
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To clarify, my position about homosexuality is to only address the black women and her struggles to find a good black man... Im not referring to the illegitimacy rate. My first post touched on that. And I stand firm by this argument. WHy? Because I work with, talk to, and studied with professional single black women and this, amongst other things, is what they cited as their problems.
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I wouldn't care if Oprah said so. It's still a stupid position. What % of the black male population do you think to be homosexual? It's certainly less than half, meaning there would be more "non suitable" hetero black men, which again gets back to the lack of education, money, and incarceration. If it was to say, "too many of the suitable ones, are in fact gay and therefore not an option," that'd be a completely different statement.
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So many asinine comments and positions with no critical thought or even common sense behind them in this thread. If some of y'all didn't post the same things so many times I would SWEAR y'all were joking. I mean, mogs apparently don't even understand simple math or how babies are made
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Originally Posted by CJDynasty
My point is this, I definitely understand the numbers game. I get that because of the overwhelming number of black men incarcerated, dead and increase of homosexuality, it puts a disproportional number of educated black women to educated hetero black men. With that being said, I still felt like there biggest problems where there standards where entirely TOO HIGH! These women's idea of what there man should be was ridiculous. I mean you should have heard there list. 6'5 200lbs, sculptured body like the gods, making 160K+ as an attorney, driving a S Class, never been married, no kids, no overbearing mother, saves the whales on the wknd (lol you get the drift). Upon hearing this I was like damn! Nobody can live up to this right out the gate (well unless you are on NT).
I dont know what value this adds to the conversation, but I just wanted to shed light on my personal experience with my friends. BTW, this was 4 years ago when I met them, and they are all still in that same boat... and still havent compromised on that list yet. Im not saying that you have to lower you standards, but there is a certain level of maturity that tells you that you cant have EVERY quality on your list. Its like life, sometimes you have to take some to get some.
Those other points are true that you pointed out. Lack of education, money, and incarceration are probably all bigger reasons why Black women cant find Black men. My point was that homosexuality IS a factor, regardless if its 1% or 49.5%. A Black woman cannot date and marry a Black homosexual male. Just like she cant date and marry a dead man, or a man in jail (not literally, but for sake of argument). Therefore it HAS to be factored in. Now, the real question I think you are addressing, "Is homosexuality the BIGGEST reason as to why black woman cant find a good black man?" On that, I would tend to agree with you...
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Why does the past few pages make it seem like black women can't marry outside of their race? Is it that rare? and It truly is the parent's fault 80% of the time. Point blank, end of story.
- DON'T HAVE KIDS IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD IT. And I'm not talking, you can afford diapers and food this month,
I'm talking both parents have 6 to 12 months of their monthly income in savings with stable jobs.
-You should also have to pass a test to have kids.
-Limit of 2 per family.
ALL ETHNICITIES
- DON'T HAVE KIDS IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD IT. And I'm not talking, you can afford diapers and food this month,
I'm talking both parents have 6 to 12 months of their monthly income in savings with stable jobs.
-You should also have to pass a test to have kids.
-Limit of 2 per family.
ALL ETHNICITIES
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wrong on all accounts...I can't believe some of ya'll believe this BS. Don't let TV or Atlanta fool you. Its plenty of gays in other cultures/races
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You are QUICK TO BACK DOWN
There are NOT more homosexual black males than there are homosexuals of any other race. Please clarify how this has anything to do with the topic of "What has happened to black families vol 72% illegitimacy rate?" Sexuality is a non-factor in this thread.
Educate me.
Cut the bull *+$#. The only reason I remember your name is because you have written some blatantly homophobic and out of pocket stuff about gay people.
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Read English breh?Originally Posted by MonStar1
wrong on all accounts...I can't believe some of ya'll believe this BS. Don't let TV or Atlanta fool you. Its plenty of gays in other cultures/races
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wrong on all accounts...I can't believe some of ya'll believe this BS. Don't let TV or Atlanta fool you. Its plenty of gays in other cultures/races
So do you agree or disagree with him?
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Originally Posted by Scientific Method
wrong on all accounts...I can't believe some of ya'll believe this BS. Don't let TV or Atlanta fool you. Its plenty of gays in other cultures/races
So do you agree or disagree with him?
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Originally Posted by Scientific Method
at so many black males going in on black women and trying to blame the plight of black America on them. We don;'t even graduate high school at 50 percent rate, not to mention an inability to avoid incarceration. If you think black women are looking to be lead, maybe we should step up to the plate more and be that example and lead us somewhere, other than to continue to be the bane of American society. This so called "system," apparently it's gender specific because black women aren't having nearly the same troubles with academia, the law, or even corporate America.
And brothas don't mess with Tyler Perry because his stuff is geared towards women, and they find that offensive, same with Steve Harvey. Don't believe that "he's embarrassing us, he's being a stereotype," garbage otherwise dudes wouldn't Stan rappers, comedians, and overall culture that is nothing but the promotion of negative stereotypes and ideals, most of which are anti conducive to any type of real world success.
at so many black males going in on black women and trying to blame the plight of black America on them.
This is mainly due to govt. programs such as tanf, wic, angel food ministries, sect 8. And tied with the beginning of the end of the industrial job market esp. in the urban cities.
If you look at stats and 90% of yall didnt live in this era but i did. In the 60's-70's blacks where amongst the highest % wise in marriage and the least in divorces. You had strong productive black families. Once the industrial job market started to end ala technology start phasing in, employing illegal/legal immigrants to do said job for less money. That left a good amount of black males out in the cold. For the most part many black males didnt have a college education. hell most people period didnt have a college education at that time. All they knew/skill set was related to jobs pertaining to that line of work. a guy who only has a h.s. diploma and only skill set is a paper press operator, and been doing it for 10 yrs, and gets replaced by a machine or a foreigner who will work twice as long for half the price, pretty much is out of luck.
Sure many will say oh just go get another job doing something else, pick up a new skillset etc. Those times easier said then done. Segregation, racism, injustices played a HUGE part during this time. There wasnt a E.O.E during those times. So a good amount of blacks were reduced to low wage jobs doing any and all they could just to make it. They couldnt do corporate jobs cause many whites felt uncomfortable, mainly felt that black males were a threat, intimidating in a office corporate work setting.
So here is a man who is use to making 6.50 or so an hour, reduced to making 1.35 or so an hour working at a fast food joint, and a second job maybe bagging groceries etc. Whose family needs him making atleast 5 an hour just to stay afloat. You have the black woman who is making 3 or so an hour and lets factor in the feminist movement and they were in the eyes seen as less intimidating so they can get that corporate job. So now she is the one making the 6.50 an hour. So its sorta like a reversal role.
Then society and media/images start putting out along with outside races, start putting out messages to black women hey you dont need him. You can be independant. He is just dead weight etc... You hear see something so much it begins to influence you.
So now you have a black woman who is starting to buy into this whole black men is this and that theory. But she still is like i love him and going to stay by his side, and plus the little money he do bring in is needed for us (meaning herself and kids) to make it.
This is the part where the system plays in. The govt or the "MAN" as some put it had a remedy for this. Its called govt assistance programs etc. So here is this black woman who wants to love stay by your man, put then here is this option of hey we will reduce your rent, give you free food, no utility expenses, free medical healthcare for your kids, so on and so forth. But theres a catch, the father has to leave the household, and cannot be apart of the home.
So now you have a women that has a tough decision. Should I struggle, and have myself and kids suffer just to keep the father in the household. Should I continue to live in less then adequent conditions, just to have the father in the house? Or take these benefits, and provide a nice home, better well at that time quality education, health benefits etc for me and my children. True there was some florida evans at the time but vast majority of black women were not on that mindframe. Most didnt stick it out through thick and thin, better or worse. Plus again as stated earlier the media and outside influences and portrayals of black men. Made the decision that much easier. Add that and the whole feminist im every woman I dont need a man etc. Was the beginning of what we have now.
Many black males struggled, but found ways to come up. Aka the beginning of the crack etc drug stage. The pimping stages, the number runner stages. So now you have these black men back in the reigns and making tons of money. So you say all should be good right. Wrong. Many black males felt betrayed, like oh when i was out on my %$%@ and didnt have anything, you up and left and wasnt by my side. Now that im living large all of a sudden lets be a family. You wasnt showing love when I was flipping burgers, bagging groceries, washing cars.
See things like this dont show up in stats, reports etc, you had to have lived in that era and witness it first hand. But back to what I was saying. So as the street hustling increased and blacks start booming big time and it was going beyond the hood and infiltrating, lets just say it for what it is, white neighborhoods, the system aka "MAN" had a problem with this. Add to the fact many of the black males was taking that money and improving the hood, creating jobs starting businesses etc, basically cutting out the middle man aka the system aka the "MAN"
They wasnt having that so here comes this so called war on drugs etc, lets bust up the spot rushers and the number runners. Sidenote... number runners btw is what we now know as the lottery and scratch off tickets etc... i find it funny blacks started this and the govt found it immoral unconstitional, and stopped and jailed black men for doing it, yet its perfectly ok etc once the govt takes it over. But im sure there is going to be some folks who will make some lame argument or statement and comments about how this isnt racist etc...
But back to the subject at hand most of these black males ended up being incarcerated. So now you have these black women who was fed years ago you dont need a black man, they dont want to work, they are criminals, and they will end up in jail. And to see it come in to fruition, plus that whole miss independant, feminist movement. Feel confident and assure with the decision they made as far as leaving the black man. Now with no male in the household to combat this argument, the images on tv/media etc, kids esp... young daughters see this to be true. So then they grow up misguided, and this sense of its me against the world, and I gotta do it on my own. Based on what they see, a mother struggling, out on her own, making it through the reigns, and having a better quality of living, all happened as soon as the black male is removed from the home. What else was these kids esp. young daughters and young women to think.
Then like I said previously, outside sources, other races influences, whispering in there ears, such as you go girl you dont need a black man, you dont need a man at all in the house. Look at your mom, she made it without your father, and is doing well. And so can you. Your a single strong black women, a educated black women. I want yall to look up single educated black woman, and then single educated white woman, and tell me which one doesnt really have any hits?
So then you have a women who already has this preconcieved notion that she is of a different status then a black male because she is in the corporate setting etc, finnacial status. Getting fed she doesnt need a black man, or a man at all for that matter, by society, and outside races mainly white. Its funny how these outside forces say there isnt a need for a father/mother in the household, then turn around and do everything they can to keep that dynamic intact in their personal lives.
So what happens you have these women who despite flaws etc they may have, think they should all be overlooked and I should be placed on a pedestal because the whites say im special, because im a single educated black woman, and im waaaay to good for you black man, so you should jump through hoops, and I shouldnt sacrifice, compromise on anything because your lucky just to be in my presense. Cause after all your nothing more then a deadbeat who doesnt want to work, dont want to be a father figure, and just a degenerate of society. At least thats what the outside races and media etc say. And they are right because they helped my mom and now me get out of situations tough times, gave me a chance for a better life. And just think im the bees knees, cause im a single educated independent black woman. Far to good for any man, well nah not any man just a black man. Iz neva be good enuffs for da wite man. But thats ok he respects me and values me, and is only looking out for my best interest.
So to summarize it all you have a generation of black woman who are taught that black men are merely a accessory. It is like a great outfit, and the black man is like the earings or a purse. Yea it adds and enhances the outfit, but if you dont have it, the outfit is still good without it. And then you have a black man, who is taught oh they dont value your contribution to the household, especially from a emotional and parental aspect. And is a mere accesory and can only contribute from a fiscal standpoint. And that your not important to the family structure because the black woman has made it without you, so really you should accept and put up with any and all she gives you. Good bad happy or sad. Because she can, and has proven she can do it without you. And its you that needs her not the other way around.
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it's pretty simple to me...it's a self perpetuating cycle. unwed parents teach their kids by example to have kids out of wedlock and the cycle goes on. a two parent household is inherently much more stable than a single parent household and the cycle goes on. more stabilty in the home produces a better educated child and a better educated child will earn more income and more income brings more stability and the cycle goes on.
the problem will persist as long as the majority of the black community keeps blaming others and the system for their woes instead of looking to themselves as the problem. i'm pretty sure that 72% of black women aren't getting raped into single motherhood. sadly many of the people that the black community considers leaders today would rather preach the victim card rather than empower. the few black voices that say not to play the victim and to play by the rules and work hard are called "uncle toms" and ridiculed.
the problem will persist as long as the majority of the black community keeps blaming others and the system for their woes instead of looking to themselves as the problem. i'm pretty sure that 72% of black women aren't getting raped into single motherhood. sadly many of the people that the black community considers leaders today would rather preach the victim card rather than empower. the few black voices that say not to play the victim and to play by the rules and work hard are called "uncle toms" and ridiculed.
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Round of god damn applause for LDJ.
He basically said everything I wanted to say.
He basically said everything I wanted to say.
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Factually incorrect from the jump. Even in the 60s, it was 24% for black people and 4% for whites.
antonlavey
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The list of why black women can't get black men is a long one
-He doesn't have enough money
-He aint a baller
-He's too short
-He's gay
-He likes white girls
I'm not blaming black women for their "plight" so to speak, but I'm curious as to if there's anything they think they could do differently to keep a black man---I want a female perspective
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See this is what im trying to get at you young people. Stats arent all what they seem to be. Your going off what some paper so call says to be true. Im going off actually living in the timeline and era. It be like you lived in new york all your life. Ive never been all i saw was whats on brochures and looked up a few things on wikipedia. It would be asainine for me to state i have more knowledge on lifestyle and living conditions in new york then you do because im reciting stats from an almanac. Stats really dont tell much of anything to be quite frankly. They kinda give you a working idea. But isnt enough to hold weight to say its an absolute. Well not in this manner.
But if you want to use stats, answer me this? Do you think the decline in industrial workforce for blacks, the increase of hiring and increaase of wages of black women, the implementation of govt assistance etc programs for black women, and the incredible increase of black men no longer in the household dont in some sort of fashion correlate with one another. So your saying 3 outta 4 homes had a father in the house (forget marriage thats a systematic stat irrelevant) Then as soon as the job market for black males decrease ten times fold. And then asst. from the govt for black woman so long as they kick the dad to the curve, the homes go to 1 outta 4 dads in the household.
Its all cerebal and subliminal, people tend to forget the most powerful weapon in any battle is the mind. They tried to control blacks with physical force. but eventually they overcame that. The obvious and most effective means of control and mulipulation is the mind.
Look at pimps, they dont control there misses with brute force. its all psychological. What was done is simple. the black man was the pillar and the strong point the apex if you will of the movement and improvement of blacks. What was done is if we cant beat em join em tactic. We will just have them turn on one another. And it worked.
Like i said yea there were some florida evans, but the majority was like love happiness core family values unification, or fancy office job get to live and work amongst the whites kids get there quality education in better schools etc. And most chose the latter of the two. Thing is many black males were striving to provide the same thing for there on neighborhoods. But see that takes time. the govt assistance etc... the whites had it right then and there. So most went with the right now instead of the big picture the future.
And its prevelant still to this day in which many stated. Im having a baby with this guy cause right now, he has the latest gear, latest shoes, has it going on for the moment. Im having his baby cause for this very moment he seems perfect and things are all good. Instant gradification. Its become what can you do for me now? Its become a socialite and materialistic view of men, and a must meet a certain status according to all those years ago with the govt., the media, outside races has determined what is up to par for me as far as a mate.
Most of the ideals, and reeasoning many black woman have as far as a mate arent even their own thoughts or views or opinions. Its whats been embedded and ingrained in the mind. Look at the videos and the responses and forget the stats. Most of the black women reasoning for marriage in some sort of fashion revolved around fiscal/money or things that have monetary values. Or physical requirements. Show me a video etc or a thread on lipstick alley etc... where there are black women saying i love him because he consoles me, he is there when times are tough, we complete/compliment one another etc. And for everyone you find ill show you/find 100's that say oh because he is dark/chocolate etc shape how i like etc... or he has a degree etc in this that and the other, or he dress so such and such matter. There will not be an iota response in reference to who he is as a man an individual.
And society has them so brainwashed, you get women who were former/ or current jumpoffs, or dishonest, or have a litany of issues. Say yea i have a manureload of issues but its ok because im special, im a single educated black woman so that overshadows all the ills and wrongs i have done, or the flaws imperfections i may have.
Oh im fat out of shape 3 kids 2 baby daddies, hate to compromise, my way or the highway, but its ok because i drive a benz work with these white folks and got a degree from spellman, so that negates all those flaws. Oh your nice kindhearted etc but you think i should slim down from a size 28, you know what f you. Oh you think its best for us to live here or i should compromise such and such cause you say its better for the family. You no what f u. I dont have to compromise listen, be equals, because we arent remember i drive a benz, i work with them white people, i went to a top 10 college, you went to community, i make 65k a year, you make 38k. Plus society and everyone says im the +%$ and since generalization you more prone to be a brotha on the d/l, or a womanizer or a cheater, etc.. Plus history miskewed stats and untold history shows this, toppled with ive seen and witness black women dont need a black man or a man at all for that matter... (with the exception of good ole tom white man to compliment me and tell me how much better off im without you, and granting me opportunities to prove this)
So that leaves you with because of fiscal aspect, educational indifferences, and stereotypes. the black woman feels she has leverage over the black man and is in a non-compromisable mind state. over the decent black man who may not be up to par in that aspect, but is good from a personal loving aspect.
So then these woman go after the guys who a notch above their level. Problem with this is most of these black men were the fortunate ones who had that father figure, or had that mother who told them. Hey look at the past and how black women threw away loyality and the core values and principals we strived and survived with all these years for instant gratification, money and materialistic things and to be in good with white men. So their pov is oh they dont care they just looking for me no more as a way to come up even more. But becky-sue over here etc was down for me, and her dad got me into that college, or hooked me up with that internship etc. So im now this successful established well to do black man. And now im all of a sudden desireable to you black woman. Im the same guy I always was only aspect that has change is my education level, and my financial status, all in which have nothing to do with who i am as a person.
So lets see i have a choice to make, keisha who said oh you aint on my level caue i got a phd, expensive car, and was told by media society, outside races, that unless you are at a level that exceeds far more then i am at your not good enough. Or becky-sue who was down with you when you was at the junior college and helped you out along the way, and just was overall down with you for you and not because of some template set as a determining factor of what a ideal man is suppose to be.
So he chooses becky-sue. The black women now has a pity party. and the thoughts of oh i was gonna date tyrone and he was nice and a good dude but he only made 28k a year, and he went to backwood around the corner college, or only had a ged. Tyrone seemed ok, but i wanted to go to houstons' and ruth chris, and he can only afford olive garden, and thats only twice a month. I know ive gotten fat but its ok cause society, media etc (mainly folks like monique) says its ok im thick. But he cant be no less then tyrese/tank cut status, because after all i am at a status higher then him because of my education and paygrade.
Oh +%$ there is tyrone, he all cut transferred to m.i.t, makes 180k a year. Got it going on. Let me go holla at him. Tyrone ignores here and walking hand in hand with becky-sue. Black woman like oh he a sellout, he think he to good for the black woman, when in actuality years ago you had those sentiments about him all based on superficial, and social viewpoints on what is suitable for you as far as in a mate. So now you have this black woman thats like yea i dissed him, kicked him to the curve for the instant gratification, but hey now that you have these things lets let bygones be bygones.
To summarize things up. Basically black woman have gotten to the point in majority cases that they look at the right now, and society approval or what is deemed suitable for them in a mate. They cant come up with their own because how can you find something if you dont have a clue what it is your looking for.
If you never had a good man in your life or dont know what one is, how can you find it? And with black men if your told black women are a product of govt. and society media and outside races, and thats all you have seen. And add to that been told that you are lesser than a black women, and she is stronger then you are from a mental and social aspect. And that the true core values of a relationship etc are meaningless and its all about social status and finnacial status. Many just say f it it aint even worth it.
antonlavey
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A point that needs to be made, it is very possible to not be married and raise children--I know people are divorced who are very civil around each other and understand the concept of that raising children is a cooperative effort despite not being together
The thread should be focused on the responsibility of raising your children not necessarily the need to stay married----the fact that you failed at marriage doesn't mean your kids should suffer for it
The thread should be focused on the responsibility of raising your children not necessarily the need to stay married----the fact that you failed at marriage doesn't mean your kids should suffer for it
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Ldj wrote some of the best post of all time.
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Similar story here, bro, minus the dad being around. I'll have to say, she must know what a REAL man is herself. There's no way she'll be able to help those young boys mature into decent men unless she fully understands that a REAL man is responsible, knowledgeable, wise, loving, respected and respectful. So that be the case, more power to her. It's one difficult path.
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LDJ spittin that real
brotherforreal
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Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. I'm a teacher. Some of my most educated and well mannered children come from Black, single parent homes. Whether its with their dad or mom, their A, B students. It's about parenting. Not marriage. My mom was married but raised me by herself. My sperm donor, wasn't much of a "father" and an even worse husband didn't do %!+% for me and my sister. My mom struggled to get us into catholic schools and pushed us into getting degrees. Two parent households are inherently LESS stable in this day and age. Less stable because many cultures save face and remain in a relationship for fear of the family view.
You don't have to get married to be good parents. You have to be a good parent if you're going to have kids. Period. Black, white, mexican, asian etc...Marriage is looked upon too highly in this country. You can't force someone into marriage on the grounds of forgetting to pull out.
It's not a race thing. It's a PARENTING thing.
Statistics are like salaries. On paper it says one thing but your take home is another.
Statistics show a 72% illegitimacy rate in black families...ok...why aren't we talking about the other 28%? Let's continue to discuss whats wrong with the 72%. We have nothing to learn from the 28%, right?
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