With only two weeks left in the season who's the NFL MVP?

[deuce king]

People are going out of their way to discredit Vick in here.  Saying he's playing with nothing but superstars, a real QB isn't suppose to have 100 rushing yards a game..........all sorts of things.  It's sickening, but I can't say that I'm surprised, dudes are just revealing their true colors.  Dudes still hating on Vick for what he did in the past and it shows with some of these posts. 

 

[deuce king]

People are going out of their way to discredit Vick in here.  Saying he's playing with nothing but superstars, a real QB isn't suppose to have 100 rushing yards a game..........all sorts of things.  It's sickening, but I can't say that I'm surprised, dudes are just revealing their true colors.  Dudes still hating on Vick for what he did in the past and it shows with some of these posts. 

 

[dmxfury]

Dudes still hating on Vick for what he did in the past and it shows with some of these posts
Seems like everyone in here is putting Vick as the 2nd choice for MVP behind Brady (if not the winner), so if that is 'hate', I hope all my favorite players get that type of hate in the future.


Minus some sort of repeat MNF performance by Vick, I think Brady takes it with Vick a close second.  Question is, who is #3?

 

[dmxfury]

Dudes still hating on Vick for what he did in the past and it shows with some of these posts
Seems like everyone in here is putting Vick as the 2nd choice for MVP behind Brady (if not the winner), so if that is 'hate', I hope all my favorite players get that type of hate in the future.


Minus some sort of repeat MNF performance by Vick, I think Brady takes it with Vick a close second.  Question is, who is #3?

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by Deuce King

People are going out of their way to discredit Vick in here.  Saying he's playing with nothing but superstars, a real QB isn't suppose to have 100 rushing yards a game..........all sorts of things.  It's sickening, but I can't say that I'm surprised, dudes are just revealing their true colors.  Dudes still hating on Vick for what he did in the past and it shows with some of these posts. 

You can relax a little, I don't think everybody is in here hating on Vick. 

I'm sure you've noticed I haven't said a word in this thread til now. 

  But it is indeed a valid argument that Vick is workin with two speed devil WR's, a great young running back, and a pretty nice player in Celek at TE. 

Brady is playing with the typical cast he has won with.  Welker (whom you maintain is garbage) two rookie TE's, a retread Branch with whom Tom got into sync with immediately, and running backs that most people couldn't pick out of a lineup in Woodhead (?) and BJGE. 


As for the pick, I would love to see Vick get the award, I think it would be great.  I was someone who was pretty angry with dude a few years ago, not as much for dog fighting, as I was for his IMMENSE talent, that I thought he left untapped.  Not studying, not working on his craft, just doin enough on pure athletic talent to get by.  And now, this year, this kid is out there workin hard, preparing himself for each game, reading defenses, making plays, he has been a JOY to watch.  I'm very happy for him.  He converted me from a doubter, to a believer.  I'll be rooting for Philly to an extent when the playoffs begin.  I take nothing away from this man. 

But.

Unfortunately, he picked THIS year to be great like this.  The year that Tom is having is damn near better then what he did in 07.  And Tom is shredding elite teams in the NFL and moving along like he's playing a varsity defense. 

  And with that, he has the NFL's best record (along with Ryan) and doing that with a cast of characters that I'm not even sure would find jobs elsewhere in the NFL.  If Brady and Vick switched places, I'm pretty sure that the deep ball would be gone from Vick's arsenal, and defenses would be closer in on Vick's scrambles.  Having two speedy WR's allows Vick to have more room to maneuver when pressure gets put on because the safeties and corners are in pursuit of those guys.  

And if Brady had that sort of talent at his disposal........

  I don't even want to think about that. 


I think Brady is going to win it.  I think Vick is going to come in second.  And if that happens, I won't be mad.  I think that is fair.  If Vick wins, I won't be mad at that either.  They are both deserving.  As I said, if Vick did this almost any other year, he would have a real good chance at the award.  But this year, Brady has been just a smidge more efficient, and his team has done a tad better, and against better comp.  Those things matter at the end of the day for voters. 

Either way, I would be none too upset if we saw both these QB's match up in Dallas in a few weeks.  Bet it would be a helluva show. 

  

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by Deuce King

People are going out of their way to discredit Vick in here.  Saying he's playing with nothing but superstars, a real QB isn't suppose to have 100 rushing yards a game..........all sorts of things.  It's sickening, but I can't say that I'm surprised, dudes are just revealing their true colors.  Dudes still hating on Vick for what he did in the past and it shows with some of these posts. 

You can relax a little, I don't think everybody is in here hating on Vick. 

I'm sure you've noticed I haven't said a word in this thread til now. 

  But it is indeed a valid argument that Vick is workin with two speed devil WR's, a great young running back, and a pretty nice player in Celek at TE. 

Brady is playing with the typical cast he has won with.  Welker (whom you maintain is garbage) two rookie TE's, a retread Branch with whom Tom got into sync with immediately, and running backs that most people couldn't pick out of a lineup in Woodhead (?) and BJGE. 


As for the pick, I would love to see Vick get the award, I think it would be great.  I was someone who was pretty angry with dude a few years ago, not as much for dog fighting, as I was for his IMMENSE talent, that I thought he left untapped.  Not studying, not working on his craft, just doin enough on pure athletic talent to get by.  And now, this year, this kid is out there workin hard, preparing himself for each game, reading defenses, making plays, he has been a JOY to watch.  I'm very happy for him.  He converted me from a doubter, to a believer.  I'll be rooting for Philly to an extent when the playoffs begin.  I take nothing away from this man. 

But.

Unfortunately, he picked THIS year to be great like this.  The year that Tom is having is damn near better then what he did in 07.  And Tom is shredding elite teams in the NFL and moving along like he's playing a varsity defense. 

  And with that, he has the NFL's best record (along with Ryan) and doing that with a cast of characters that I'm not even sure would find jobs elsewhere in the NFL.  If Brady and Vick switched places, I'm pretty sure that the deep ball would be gone from Vick's arsenal, and defenses would be closer in on Vick's scrambles.  Having two speedy WR's allows Vick to have more room to maneuver when pressure gets put on because the safeties and corners are in pursuit of those guys.  

And if Brady had that sort of talent at his disposal........

  I don't even want to think about that. 


I think Brady is going to win it.  I think Vick is going to come in second.  And if that happens, I won't be mad.  I think that is fair.  If Vick wins, I won't be mad at that either.  They are both deserving.  As I said, if Vick did this almost any other year, he would have a real good chance at the award.  But this year, Brady has been just a smidge more efficient, and his team has done a tad better, and against better comp.  Those things matter at the end of the day for voters. 

Either way, I would be none too upset if we saw both these QB's match up in Dallas in a few weeks.  Bet it would be a helluva show. 

  

 

[dajoka004]

Originally Posted by moneyisthemotive

Tom Brady is the epitome of a perfect NFL quarterback ... To argue that Vick is even in the same stratosphere is simply asinine ...

About as asinine as saying Dez Bryant is an elite WR.

1. Best 4th quarter QB rating.
2. Best road QB rating.
3. 290.6 YPG, 2nd in the league behind Manning and 53.5 better than Brady.
4. Five second half comeback wins, including four in the 4th quarter
5. 8-1 record when he starts and finishes a game.

Dude has been clutch. Philly wouldn't finish .500 if he wasn't at QB. Nobody else in the league could have engineered that comeback against the Giants.

And I get tired of hearing how Brady doesn't have weapons. Where have you clowns been the last 10 years? The Pats have always been about the system. Plug new guys in and they'll work. Bellichick is the best at putting his guys in the best position to win. He won 11 games with Matt *$@%*%% Cassel at QB.

 

[dajoka004]

Originally Posted by moneyisthemotive

Tom Brady is the epitome of a perfect NFL quarterback ... To argue that Vick is even in the same stratosphere is simply asinine ...

About as asinine as saying Dez Bryant is an elite WR.

1. Best 4th quarter QB rating.
2. Best road QB rating.
3. 290.6 YPG, 2nd in the league behind Manning and 53.5 better than Brady.
4. Five second half comeback wins, including four in the 4th quarter
5. 8-1 record when he starts and finishes a game.

Dude has been clutch. Philly wouldn't finish .500 if he wasn't at QB. Nobody else in the league could have engineered that comeback against the Giants.

And I get tired of hearing how Brady doesn't have weapons. Where have you clowns been the last 10 years? The Pats have always been about the system. Plug new guys in and they'll work. Bellichick is the best at putting his guys in the best position to win. He won 11 games with Matt *$@%*%% Cassel at QB.

 

[dajoka004]

Originally Posted by CP1708

  But it is indeed a valid argument that Vick is workin with two speed devil WR's, a great young running back, and a pretty nice player in Celek at TE. 

Celek hasn't done a thing this year aside from the TD against the Giants. He's been used more as a pass blocker than a receiver.

Vick benefits from having DJax, Mac and Shady, but he makes them better players too. I mean, the Bears had their safeties playing 30 yards off the LOS. Had Marty and Andy not waited until the 4th quarter to exploit that, we would have taken that game.

 

[dajoka004]

Originally Posted by CP1708

  But it is indeed a valid argument that Vick is workin with two speed devil WR's, a great young running back, and a pretty nice player in Celek at TE. 

Celek hasn't done a thing this year aside from the TD against the Giants. He's been used more as a pass blocker than a receiver.

Vick benefits from having DJax, Mac and Shady, but he makes them better players too. I mean, the Bears had their safeties playing 30 yards off the LOS. Had Marty and Andy not waited until the 4th quarter to exploit that, we would have taken that game.

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by DaJoka004

Originally Posted by CP1708

  But it is indeed a valid argument that Vick is workin with two speed devil WR's, a great young running back, and a pretty nice player in Celek at TE. 

Celek hasn't done a thing this year aside from the TD against the Giants. He's been used more as a pass blocker than a receiver.

Vick benefits from having DJax, Mac and Shady, but he makes them better players too. I mean, the Bears had their safeties playing 30 yards off the LOS. Had Marty and Andy not waited until the 4th quarter to exploit that, we would have taken that game.

Maybe, but there is more too it then that.  Vick's best weapon in Atl was Crumpler.  They had a nice connection between the two and made big plays. 

For some reason, Vick and Celek have been "off".  I have commented several times in the WIR threads that Vick and Celek are just a hair off.  If, and when, they get that right, they are going to be even MORE dangerous.  I've seen Vick miss him by a step, I've seen Celek not ready for the ball and miss it, they're always just a inch one way or the other off.  I think we could see them get it right, and Celek could make some big plays for them in the playoffs. 


And as you said, Bears had safties 30 yards off LOS, does that not in fact help Vick with running lanes?  Would Vick have that same benefit with Welker, Woodhead, Gronk, Hernandez and co? It would be a different ball game, wouldn't it? 

And Vick getting the comeback wins is great, but is it more impressive to come back in a game and win it, or to win the game from start to finish like what Brady has been doing?  Matter of preference I suppose, just as people say that Brady would not be able to come back against the Giants like Vick did, would Vick be able to destroy the Pitt defense as Tom did?  *shrugs* 
  

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by DaJoka004

Originally Posted by CP1708

  But it is indeed a valid argument that Vick is workin with two speed devil WR's, a great young running back, and a pretty nice player in Celek at TE. 

Celek hasn't done a thing this year aside from the TD against the Giants. He's been used more as a pass blocker than a receiver.

Vick benefits from having DJax, Mac and Shady, but he makes them better players too. I mean, the Bears had their safeties playing 30 yards off the LOS. Had Marty and Andy not waited until the 4th quarter to exploit that, we would have taken that game.

Maybe, but there is more too it then that.  Vick's best weapon in Atl was Crumpler.  They had a nice connection between the two and made big plays. 

For some reason, Vick and Celek have been "off".  I have commented several times in the WIR threads that Vick and Celek are just a hair off.  If, and when, they get that right, they are going to be even MORE dangerous.  I've seen Vick miss him by a step, I've seen Celek not ready for the ball and miss it, they're always just a inch one way or the other off.  I think we could see them get it right, and Celek could make some big plays for them in the playoffs. 


And as you said, Bears had safties 30 yards off LOS, does that not in fact help Vick with running lanes?  Would Vick have that same benefit with Welker, Woodhead, Gronk, Hernandez and co? It would be a different ball game, wouldn't it? 

And Vick getting the comeback wins is great, but is it more impressive to come back in a game and win it, or to win the game from start to finish like what Brady has been doing?  Matter of preference I suppose, just as people say that Brady would not be able to come back against the Giants like Vick did, would Vick be able to destroy the Pitt defense as Tom did?  *shrugs* 
  

 

[dmxfury]

would Vick be able to destroy the Pitt defense as Tom did?  *shrugs*

Only one man can make LeBeau look like an average DC, and that is Mr. Brady

 

[dmxfury]

would Vick be able to destroy the Pitt defense as Tom did?  *shrugs*

Only one man can make LeBeau look like an average DC, and that is Mr. Brady

 

[extraordinary swag]

Brady would get killed behind Philly's O-Line, Vick would have even better numbers if he had all day to pass like Tom does

I don't care how fast Maclin and Jackson are, jam them and it's up to Vick to make something out of nothing which he has done repeatedly this year. No other QB would have won that game in NY last week facing that deficit

Like I said earlier, Brady will likely win it off the strength of that no pick streak alone. But if Vick lights it up these last two games they should be co-MVP's IMO

 

[extraordinary swag]

Brady would get killed behind Philly's O-Line, Vick would have even better numbers if he had all day to pass like Tom does

I don't care how fast Maclin and Jackson are, jam them and it's up to Vick to make something out of nothing which he has done repeatedly this year. No other QB would have won that game in NY last week facing that deficit

Like I said earlier, Brady will likely win it off the strength of that no pick streak alone. But if Vick lights it up these last two games they should be co-MVP's IMO

 

[deuce king]

Originally Posted by DaJoka004


And I get tired of hearing how Brady doesn't have weapons. Where have you clowns been the last 10 years? The Pats have always been about the system. Plug new guys in and they'll work. Bellichick is the best at putting his guys in the best position to win. He won 11 games with Matt *$@%*%% Cassel at QB.

100% Truth.

Brady is playing with the typical cast he has won with.  Welker (whom you maintain is garbage)
Never said he was garbage, I just said he's average or maybe even slightly above average at best.  I just don't think he's as good as alot of you Brady lovers make him out to be, not saying you exactly but others on here at the least.  Also, I still haven't heard or seen anyone mention how great Brady offensive line has been this year.  He all the time in the world back there, and that's no fault of Brady, but if you don't want to negate Vick for having all these speed demons as you make them all out to be then you better takes Brady's o-line into consideration against him as well.  I'd be willing to think that the Patriots offensive line has allowed the least amount of sacks this year compared to the rest of the league.  
  

 

[deuce king]

Originally Posted by DaJoka004


And I get tired of hearing how Brady doesn't have weapons. Where have you clowns been the last 10 years? The Pats have always been about the system. Plug new guys in and they'll work. Bellichick is the best at putting his guys in the best position to win. He won 11 games with Matt *$@%*%% Cassel at QB.

100% Truth.

Brady is playing with the typical cast he has won with.  Welker (whom you maintain is garbage)
Never said he was garbage, I just said he's average or maybe even slightly above average at best.  I just don't think he's as good as alot of you Brady lovers make him out to be, not saying you exactly but others on here at the least.  Also, I still haven't heard or seen anyone mention how great Brady offensive line has been this year.  He all the time in the world back there, and that's no fault of Brady, but if you don't want to negate Vick for having all these speed demons as you make them all out to be then you better takes Brady's o-line into consideration against him as well.  I'd be willing to think that the Patriots offensive line has allowed the least amount of sacks this year compared to the rest of the league.  
  

 

[CP1708]

You do realize that NOBODY blitzes Tom for a reason right? 

The Giants were able to get him in 07 because their front 4 was so good. 

Put another QB behind the Pats same O line, and more blitzes are called, more pass rush, more sacks, etc etc etc. 

 

[CP1708]

You do realize that NOBODY blitzes Tom for a reason right? 

The Giants were able to get him in 07 because their front 4 was so good. 

Put another QB behind the Pats same O line, and more blitzes are called, more pass rush, more sacks, etc etc etc. 

 

[greenbean]

some of yall NTers need help when it comes to sports

MVP is MOST Valuable PLAYER right?

Vick is more valuable to the Eagles then Tom is to the Patriots

If Kolb was running the offense no way the Eagles would be winning

But if I recall when Brady was out (2009) Matt ran that same offense just as good

I dont understand how some of yall can not see that Vick has MISSED 2 WHOLE season wit no football contact at all and came back to be in the MVP race and playoffs.......I dont think Brady could do that maybe miss one season but TWO?

 

[greenbean]

some of yall NTers need help when it comes to sports

MVP is MOST Valuable PLAYER right?

Vick is more valuable to the Eagles then Tom is to the Patriots

If Kolb was running the offense no way the Eagles would be winning

But if I recall when Brady was out (2009) Matt ran that same offense just as good

I dont understand how some of yall can not see that Vick has MISSED 2 WHOLE season wit no football contact at all and came back to be in the MVP race and playoffs.......I dont think Brady could do that maybe miss one season but TWO?

 

[biguglyamerican]

Originally Posted by Deuce King

People are going out of their way to discredit Vick in here.  Saying he's playing with nothing but superstars, a real QB isn't suppose to have 100 rushing yards a game..........all sorts of things.  It's sickening, but I can't say that I'm surprised, dudes are just revealing their true colors.  Dudes still hating on Vick for what he did in the past and it shows with some of these posts. 

 Give it a rest, buddy.

 

[biguglyamerican]

Originally Posted by Deuce King

People are going out of their way to discredit Vick in here.  Saying he's playing with nothing but superstars, a real QB isn't suppose to have 100 rushing yards a game..........all sorts of things.  It's sickening, but I can't say that I'm surprised, dudes are just revealing their true colors.  Dudes still hating on Vick for what he did in the past and it shows with some of these posts. 

 Give it a rest, buddy.

 

[DeadsetAce]

Originally Posted by PleaseSayTheBaby23

some of yall NTers need help when it comes to sports

MVP is MOST Valuable PLAYER right?

Vick is more valuable to the Eagles then Tom is to the Patriots

If Kolb was running the offense no way the Eagles would be winning

But if I recall when Brady was out (2009) Matt ran that same offense just as good

yeah coming off an 18 win season, a cool 7 win drop off against the easiest schedule in years and we missed the playoffs. cassel ran it just as good, sure.

not sure if you noticed, cassel is showing he can play outside of the NE "system".

this system talk in NE is bs. tom brady IS the system. he makes it work.

oh man, if kolb was running the eagle offense? what about if brian hoyer was running the NE offense? we're a 4 win team...maybe