WrestleMania Fallout 4/6 - NT WrestleMania Prediction Contest Results Posted! p1

[yardfather]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by YardFather

Originally Posted by YardFather


Starrcade 97 did the highest buyrate of any WCW PPV ever, so how is it fair to say Sting never drew money?

Quoting self for emphasis.

Come on dude, he was wrestling the biggest villan in the business. Let's not credit Sting for all of that. Not to mention he was hyped up and didn't really wrestle for however long he was playing that "In the Rafters" nonsense. Plus it was Starrcade. The Grand Daddy of them all. He had every reason to draw that night.

Hogan had been a villain for over a year and had headlined multiple PPVs against the likes of Piper, Flair, Savage, etc before Starrcade and wasn't drawing those numbers. Hogan doesn't deserve all the credit for the huge buyrate. People were paying to see Sting wrestle. Numbers don't lie:

[table]1996[tr][td]Pay Per View[/td][td]Datum[/td][td]Buyrate[/td][/tr][tr][td]Hog Wild '96 - Hogan vs Giant
[/td][td]10.08.1996[/td][td]0.62[/td][/tr][tr][td]Halloween Havoc '96 - Hogan vs Savage
[/td][td]27.10.1996[/td][td]0.70[/td][/tr][tr][td]Starrcade '96 - Hogan vs Piper
[/td][td]29.12.1996[/td][td]0.95[/td][/tr][/table]

[table]1997[tr][td]Pay Per View[/td][td]Datum[/td][td]Buyrate[/td][/tr][tr][td]Souled Out '97 - Hogan vs Giant
[/td][td]25.01.1997[/td][td]0.47[/td][/tr][tr][td]SuperBrawl VII - Hogan vs Piper
[/td][td]23.02.1997[/td][td]0.75[/td][/tr][tr][td]Uncensored '97 - Team NWO vs Team WCW vs Team Piper
[/td][td]16.03.1997[/td][td]0.89[/td][/tr][tr][td]Bash at the Beach '97 - The Giant & Lex Luger vs Hollywood Hogan & Dennis Rodman[/td][td]13.07.1997[/td][td]0.89[/td][/tr][tr][td]Road Wild '97 - Hogan vs Luger
[/td][td]10.08.1997[/td][td]0.65[/td][/tr][tr][td]Halloween Havoc '97 - Hogan vs Piper
[/td][td]26.10.1997[/td][td]1.10[/td][/tr][tr][td]Starrcade '97 - Sting vs Hogan
[/td][td]28.12.1997[/td][td]1.80[/td][/tr][/table]

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Why does it have to be HATE? Why is it you can't say anything non-positive about someone without being labeled as a hater? So since I know that he is irrelevant means I am a hater? Really? Come on man don't resort to that defense mechanism. Sting isn't important. You have folks in here claiming Undertaker/Sting > Brock/Rock. Come on now. If that I am doing is hating then that is the extreme opposite. We are simply saying Sting has no place in today's WWE vs. Taker @ WM. Doesn't mean we hate him nor does it mean that we don't know how much of a legend he is.

Nobody called him overrated. We simply said that when he was the #1 dude in the organization that the organization had some of their darker days. That is fact. Sting is Scottie Pippen. He is a great individual talent that has seen his better days in a supporting role. That isn't saying that when he was the #1 he was a bum but his BEST days are when he is co-featured. Sting vs. Flair. Sting vs. Hogan.

And yes we all wish Sting would have came over to WWE, but guess what? He never did. ANd NOW is not the time. That is all that we are saying. Not sure what you are reading when you claim people are disrespecting his CAREER. Nobody has done such a thing. We are simply saying he is nothing now. Point blank.
@YardFather, again Sting and Hogan (together) are what made that PPV such a success. If Sting vs. Piper, Nash, or anyone else that was hot at the time would not have made that much money. So to credit Sting with all of that $$$ made isn't right at all. Not once did I say Hogan deserved all of the credit. The combination of THEM is what made it such a hyped show. One without the other = garbage. Everyone wanted to see that MATCHUP. 

 

[JCMojica24]

I'd like to see Sting and the Deadman battle it out but we all know that will never happen...

 

[yardfather]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Why does it have to be HATE? Why is it you can't say anything non-positive about someone without being labeled as a hater? So since I know that he is irrelevant means I am a hater? Really? Come on man don't resort to that defense mechanism. Sting isn't important. You have folks in here claiming Undertaker/Sting > Brock/Rock. Come on now. If that I am doing is hating then that is the extreme opposite. We are simply saying Sting has no place in today's WWE vs. Taker @ WM. Doesn't mean we hate him nor does it mean that we don't know how much of a legend he is.

Nobody called him overrated. We simply said that when he was the #1 dude in the organization that the organization had some of their darker days. That is fact. Sting is Scottie Pippen. He is a great individual talent that has seen his better days in a supporting role. That isn't saying that when he was the #1 he was a bum but his BEST days are when he is co-featured. Sting vs. Flair. Sting vs. Hogan.

And yes we all wish Sting would have came over to WWE, but guess what? He never did. ANd NOW is not the time. That is all that we are saying. Not sure what you are reading when you claim people are disrespecting his CAREER. Nobody has done such a thing. We are simply saying he is nothing now. Point blank.
@YardFather, again Sting and Hogan (together) are what made that PPV such a success. If Sting vs. Piper, Nash, or anyone else that was hot at the time would not have made that much money. So to credit Sting with all of that $$$ made isn't right at all. Not once did I say Hogan deserved all of the credit. The combination of THEM is what made it such a hyped show. One without the other = garbage. Everyone wanted to see that MATCHUP. 

True yeah, everyone wanted to see Hogan vs Sting. The matchup was a draw, and therefore Sting was a draw. I just brought this up to counter the point 4w made about Sting NEVER drawing.

And I agree on the point of Undertaker vs Sting being > than Brock vs Rock is false.

Brock vs Rock is easily the biggest possible match that the WWE can put on at this point in time.

That being said, even if the WWE brought back December to Dismember and the undercard was a 2 hour Ironman match between the Miz and Mason Ryan; if the show was headlined by Sting vs Taker, I would not hesitate to pay the $50 to watch it.

 

[hombrelobo]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Why does it have to be HATE? Why is it you can't say anything non-positive about someone without being labeled as a hater? So since I know that he is irrelevant means I am a hater? Really? Come on man don't resort to that defense mechanism. Sting isn't important. You have folks in here claiming Undertaker/Sting > Brock/Rock. Come on now. If that I am doing is hating then that is the extreme opposite. We are simply saying Sting has no place in today's WWE vs. Taker @ WM. Doesn't mean we hate him nor does it mean that we don't know how much of a legend he is.

Nobody called him overrated. We simply said that when he was the #1 dude in the organization that the organization had some of their darker days. That is fact. Sting is Scottie Pippen. He is a great individual talent that has seen his better days in a supporting role. That isn't saying that when he was the #1 he was a bum but his BEST days are when he is co-featured. Sting vs. Flair. Sting vs. Hogan.

And yes we all wish Sting would have came over to WWE, but guess what? He never did. ANd NOW is not the time. That is all that we are saying. Not sure what you are reading when you claim people are disrespecting his CAREER. Nobody has done such a thing. We are simply saying he is nothing now. Point blank.
@YardFather, again Sting and Hogan (together) are what made that PPV such a success. If Sting vs. Piper, Nash, or anyone else that was hot at the time would not have made that much money. So to credit Sting with all of that $$$ made isn't right at all. Not once did I say Hogan deserved all of the credit. The combination of THEM is what made it such a hyped show. One without the other = garbage. Everyone wanted to see that MATCHUP. 

DC, I've even agreed with you and 4w's points about him not being a top draw during bad times. I've originally stated that it takes two to tango. We have literally ONE person saying Sting/Taker > Brock/Rock. Not "people". Don't get all DCAA on us and think you can "Ksteezy" people around this thread.

Facts are facts. If Sting/Taker had no interest Vince McMahon wouldn't have tried to sign him last year 2011. You're opinion is your opinion. But the fact that the WWE tried to sign him last year is a fact. You saying Sting is nothing is an opinion. And that's all it is.. your opinion.

 

[suniversal]

Does anyone think that the rock or brock will be having a match at SummerSlam? Just weighing the pros and cons of getting the tickets.

 

[yardfather]

-- Epico's recent complaints on Twitter have been done in character. The word is that you can expect more comments like this in the coming weeks and months from various talents.

 

[Case]

At the end of the day we all aren't going to agree and thats what makes this the best thread on NT..But I think most of will agree that a Rock/Brock Mania will be off the charts huge..And I think all of us (DC you don't count..lol) can agree that a Sting/Taker match would have been huge too..It's a shame it never got to happen, but so is Sting/HBK or Magnum/Hall or NWO/D-X..They'll all just have to remain dream match ups that won't happen..

 

[yardfather]

Originally Posted by casekicks

At the end of the day we all aren't going to agree and thats what makes this the best thread on NT..But I think most of will agree that a Rock/Brock Mania will be off the charts huge..And I think all of us (DC you don't count..lol) can agree that a Sting/Taker match would have been huge too..It's a shame it never got to happen, but so is Sting/HBK or Magnum/Hall or NWO/D-X..They'll all just have to remain dream match ups that won't happen..

Word.


--Chris Jericho's band Fozzy has announced tour dates in the UK for June 6th, 7th, 9th and 11th. Jericho is being advertised for a RAW taping on June 4th in South Carolina, though they have not yet scheduled the location for June 11th and no names are announced. Jericho isn't currently being advertised for the No Way Out PPV on June 17th.

 

[hombrelobo]

I'm not kidding when I tell you Eric Young will be the new host of a fishing show on the Animal Planet.

 

[4wrestling]

Originally Posted by YardFather

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by YardFather


Quoting self for emphasis.

Come on dude, he was wrestling the biggest villan in the business. Let's not credit Sting for all of that. Not to mention he was hyped up and didn't really wrestle for however long he was playing that "In the Rafters" nonsense. Plus it was Starrcade. The Grand Daddy of them all. He had every reason to draw that night.

Hogan had been a villain for over a year and had headlined multiple PPVs against the likes of Piper, Flair, Savage, etc before Starrcade and wasn't drawing those numbers. Hogan doesn't deserve all the credit for the huge buyrate. People were paying to see Sting wrestle. Numbers don't lie:

[table]1996[tr][td]Pay Per View[/td][td]Datum[/td][td]Buyrate[/td][/tr][tr][td]Hog Wild '96 - Hogan vs Giant
[/td][td]10.08.1996[/td][td]0.62[/td][/tr][tr][td]Halloween Havoc '96 - Hogan vs Savage
[/td][td]27.10.1996[/td][td]0.70[/td][/tr][tr][td]Starrcade '96 - Hogan vs Piper
[/td][td]29.12.1996[/td][td]0.95[/td][/tr][/table]

[table]1997[tr][td]Pay Per View[/td][td]Datum[/td][td]Buyrate[/td][/tr][tr][td]Souled Out '97 - Hogan vs Giant
[/td][td]25.01.1997[/td][td]0.47[/td][/tr][tr][td]SuperBrawl VII - Hogan vs Piper
[/td][td]23.02.1997[/td][td]0.75[/td][/tr][tr][td]Uncensored '97 - Team NWO vs Team WCW vs Team Piper
[/td][td]16.03.1997[/td][td]0.89[/td][/tr][tr][td]Bash at the Beach '97 - The Giant & Lex Luger vs Hollywood Hogan & Dennis Rodman[/td][td]13.07.1997[/td][td]0.89[/td][/tr][tr][td]Road Wild '97 - Hogan vs Luger
[/td][td]10.08.1997[/td][td]0.65[/td][/tr][tr][td]Halloween Havoc '97 - Hogan vs Piper
[/td][td]26.10.1997[/td][td]1.10[/td][/tr][tr][td]Starrcade '97 - Sting vs Hogan
[/td][td]28.12.1997[/td][td]1.80[/td][/tr][/table]

I appreciate you bringing these #'s in because it does illustrate a good point.  No one is denying Sting was a big star.  He and Hogan did draw that big buy rate, but it was a one time deal for Sting.  It was based off the one year build that never involved Sting actually wrestling.  It was just that Sting sat out for the year and was able to build the anticipation.  After Starrcade, their program continued but Sting was never the main guy... Hogan was, and that quickly passed to Goldberg.
I hate to get this off track, because my main point is that a Taker/Sting match would not draw in 2013.  However, I also think people romanticise the Sting character from 96-98 to make him out to be a better performer than he actually was.  When essentially, he didn't even wrestle for almost an entire year of that time.

I am working to put some stuff together because I want everyone to get a history lesson on Sting's entire career.

 

[mitchellicious]

Originally Posted by hombrelobo

People are really #!*#!$*% on "The Icon" Sting?

Listen, if Sting couldn't get the job done Vince wouldn't have attempted to sign him for last years Mania.

Here's the thing about Sting.

STING STILL IS AN ICON. Icon's don't die. That's what makes you an icon. You can't stop being an icon. I can't even believe I'm debating the fact but a lot of posts in here are just silly. Let me just make a few points here.

First of all..

Meltzer's the authority on professional wrestling among insiders since when? Meltzer's shunned by insiders within in the industry and they still use his dirt sheet to promote agendas by giving him false rumors. He gets good info from some leaky wheels and while his info is fun to read,� I hold his Hall of Fame in no higher regard than I do the WWE's. So the fact that Sting isn't in the WO HOF means nothing.

2ndly. Let's talk money.

I don't know who was the highest paid WCW wrestler during the wars but I will tell you what Kevin Nash said about Sting was during the "Legends of Wrestling Roundtable" talks. He said it was a reference known in the wrestling world back then as "Sting Money". Everyone's goal was to make Sting money. Nash said you were paid based on how well you drew and your expectations. He also personally said that Hogan was not paid more than Sting in those days. That's a small indication as to how big Sting was.

Do you guys think the NWO was the single handed reason the WCW beat out the WWF in the ratings for 83 consecutive weeks? Hell no. Was the NWO's main target and feud not Sting for that long time period? The full focus was on Sting.

The question on everyone's mind was would Sting join the NWO. That was the target and the basis of that era drawing as much as it did. That was Sting. He was the focal point of a major feud/angle for almost 3 years w/Hogan and the NWO. That feud drew BIG money. Hogan knew the only person he could draw huge money in that feud at that time as Sting. I'm not saying the Sting drew Hogan/Stone Cold money, but he did draw, and he did have a company build their brand around him. You know how people say"Warrior never drew a dime"...not true...at the time he was on top EVERY SINGLE STAR in the WWE wanted to work with him. Why? Because knew thats where the money was and they'd draw the most by working with him.

Meltzer and a few others show the numbers when Sting got his first title reign and they were way down to the point that his run was considered a flop and they had to put the belt back on Flair.� So, there's partial proof that he didn't draw well. I'll admit that. But, on the flipside I think Sting had more drawing power than people want to give him credit for. It takes two to tango so to give his opponents all the credit for drawing in buys is BS.� I will also say that for a good chunk of the 90s the entire industry (stateside) was in a downturn.� Do you take that in to account when gauging the drawing ability of any wrestler that had their ascension during that period?� Nobody drew great and consistently until the NWO and Attitude Era.


Now, just like Triple H/Taker (Which I was always sold on but I know initially people wern't) I know that many people would buy into Taker/Sting. It would be perfect for Sting. Same with Taker. Look at how amazing he looked Sunday. Give them limited dates and we know they would make a great match happen.

Given the promotion/video packages that we all know the WWE is capable of, they could easily generate TONS of interest in this match as only ONE of the featured matches @ WM. Taker is the draw and Sting could provide a great entertaining challenge for the streak that people would be into.

Sting wouldn't create any interest as Takers opponent? Really? You guys kill me sometimes.

They should bring Robocop back with him...

 

[Peep Game]

Originally Posted by YardFather

-- Epico's recent complaints on Twitter have been done in character. The word is that you can expect more comments like this in the coming weeks and months from various talents.

They better do something to attempt to get some shine/notice 

 And I'm just remembering the Epico & Primo are the tag champs. Wow.


This Taker/Sting stuff is pretty interesting. I was one of the ones who wanted to see it, but didn't really believe it was gonna happen, even though

for a bit it looked like they were setting up for exactly that. I may have had 97 Sting vs Undertaker stuck in my head, knowing full well that would

not be the case.

 

[Deleted member 37754]

[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]most of the points i have, already been made.[/color]

[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]I'm not a big fan of sting in the ring. Joker Sting and Beach Boy Sting are great characters and he is pretty money on the mic. Would crow sting vs. the deadman be fun? sure... but it wouldn't be up there on my things to see.[/color]

[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]Much rather have SCSA vs. Punk, that would be amazing. also since it's a real possiblity Rock vs. Brock would also be up there. But since we are throwing randoms out there... Kurt Angle vs 'Taker. Could have the same feel as HHH and HBK. Accomplished EVERYTHING there is to accomplish, also a gold medal champion. And Kurt was and always will be in my top 5. just a random thought.[/color]



[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]EDIT: HOW COME MY AVY ISN'T AND HASN'T BEEN SHOWING UP....[/color]

[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]how do i fix this, anyone??[/color]

 

[hymen man]

Might not be the biggest draw but I REALLY wanna see Punk/Austin as ITO mentioned.

 

[mitchellicious]

What are the chances that come WM 29, Brock does a Warrior-esque hold out on Vince backstage a la Summerslam 91?

 

[bkmac]

Rock/Brock would be a big deal, but not biggest in the companies history.

/beatingadeadhorse

 

[Case]

Originally Posted by 4wrestling

Originally Posted by YardFather

I appreciate you bringing these #'s in because it does illustrate a good point.  No one is denying Sting was a big star.  He and Hogan did draw that big buy rate, but it was a one time deal for Sting.  It was based off the one year build that never involved Sting actually wrestling.  It was just that Sting sat out for the year and was able to build the anticipation.  After Starrcade, their program continued but Sting was never the main guy... Hogan was, and that quickly passed to Goldberg.
I hate to get this off track, because my main point is that a Taker/Sting match would not draw in 2013.  However, I also think people romanticise the Sting character from 96-98 to make him out to be a better performer than he actually was.  When essentially, he didn't even wrestle for almost an entire year of that time.

I am working to put some stuff together because I want everyone to get a history lesson on Sting's entire career.

Dude, how can you say in one breath that "No one is denying Sting was a big star" and then turn around and say Sting was never the main guy?..Why is it you just can't accept the fact that for a little over a decade Sting was always a top guy in a top organization?..I mean did he personally offend you in some way that makes you try to put his career down?..Did he put one of your cats in the Scorpion Deathlock or something?..

  

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by casekicks

Dude, how can you say in one breath that "No one is denying Sting was a big star" and then turn around and say Sting was never the main guy?..Why is it you just can't accept the fact that for a little over a decade Sting was always a top guy in a top organization?..I mean did he personally offend you in some way that makes you try to put his career down?..Did he put one of your cats in the Scorpion Deathlock or something?..

  
No, you seem to be the one getting personally offended.
Sting was a top guy for a long time.

Sting was not a worthy #1 dude.

There is really nothing to debate about that.

Again, because we are saying this does not mean we have anything against the dude.

 

[Case]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

Originally Posted by casekicks

Dude, how can you say in one breath that "No one is denying Sting was a big star" and then turn around and say Sting was never the main guy?..Why is it you just can't accept the fact that for a little over a decade Sting was always a top guy in a top organization?..I mean did he personally offend you in some way that makes you try to put his career down?..Did he put one of your cats in the Scorpion Deathlock or something?..

  

No, you seem to be the one getting personally offended.
Sting was a top guy for a long time.

Sting was not a worthy #1 dude.

There is really nothing to debate about that.

Again, because we are saying this does not mean we have anything against the dude.



I'm no where near personally offended..I guess the right word would be confused..I'm confused as to a couple of you guys' idea of what a top guy means..

DC, how can you say the man was not a worthy #1 dude?..Sorry but that is flat out crazy to me and I'd, honestly, like to hear your reasoning behind that..

 

[Peep Game]

 

[DCAllAfrican]

As I mentioned before, Sting was always a great supporting cast member. Fan favorite yes. Super babyface. But when has he shown that he could be the #1 man? He never really got a chance to do so honestly.
vs. Flair (Horseman)
vs. Vader
vs. Hogan (NWO)

He was never THEE guy, he was always in the supporting role in all of his major feuds. I called him Scottie Pippen. Great talent, great supporting talent but not the dude.

 

[mitchellicious]

I agree with DC & 4W, Sting tarnished his legacy in TNA and has been irrelevant for years.

He's still one of the GOATs though, but I wouldn't look forward to him coming back.

 

[danger style]

Rumors are that WM28 did 1.9million buyrate...

if true

 

[Case]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

As I mentioned before, Sting was always a great supporting cast member. Fan favorite yes. Super babyface. But when has he shown that he could be the #1 man? He never really got a chance to do so honestly.
vs. Flair (Horseman)
vs. Vader
vs. Hogan (NWO)

He was never THEE guy, he was always in the supporting role in all of his major feuds. I called him Scottie Pippen. Great talent, great supporting talent but not the dude.

See, to me, what you just wrote proves my point that he was the #1 guy..I mean he was the opponent of all three of those you mentioned, who were all the #1 heel for long periods of time..And as we all know, you can't have a match with a top heel without a top babyface..So therefore that right there should show you that he was the number #1 babyface..

Mitchell, can you tell me how he tarnished his legacy in TNA?..

SIDENOTE-It's great to have some people to argue wrestling with..Can't wait to make some signs, that shows some love to the NTWT and take them to the Raw I'm going to at the end of the month..