Wrestling Thread Aug 11-24 | 8/18 RAW - Brock DESTROYS Cena, New WWE Title Belt (Bye Big Gold)

A 411mania article on what could have been about deuce king deuce king Brothas United deuce king deuce king . I'll read it in a little while

Why the 'New Nation' Was Doomed From the Start

Introduction: Over the past couple of weeks, there has been a lot of talk surrounding the nascent stable composed of Xavier Woods, Big E, and Kofi Kingston. At first it was in relation to why they were paired up, but earlier this week, all of the speculation turned to whether or not they'd been quietly disbanded. The trio appeared together during Hulk Hogan's birthday party on RAW, dressed alike and wearing similar expressions on their faces, but over this past weekend, and then again on Tuesday's tapings, both Kofi and Big E appeared without their cohorts and also continued to work as faces. Is the stable done before they really had a chance to get going? I do not know the answer to that one, but I will look at why I think the stable was doomed from the start.

One of the biggest factors going against any type of stable that the WWE would put together comprised largely of African-American athletes is the inherent comparison to the original Nation of Domination. The Rock was far and away the biggest breakout star from that group, but both Faarooq and D'Lo Brown had respectable careers with the WWE and Mark Henry went on to become a World Champion and one of the most consistently entertaining performers on the roster over the past few years. It would be extremely difficult in today's WWE for the trio of Woods, Kingston, and Big E to make that kind of lasting impression. Perhaps more troubling, though, is the notion that they were formed as a way for the WWE to mock an article written by The Atlantic's Dion Beary regarding the issue of racism in the WWE. I am not going to put any credence in that theory, because while I do think that the WWE seems to have pigeonholed their African-American performers into a handful of tropes, I will freely admit that I do not know enough about what goes on backstage to identify if that is actually a function of racism, or just the WWE's notoriously awful creative team. In all honesty, I would imagine that the WWE writing team is largely male, largely middle-aged, and largely Caucasian, which means that they probably do not have a clue as to how to write for an African-American character in today's society. Still though, the simple fact that said theory even exists means that the stable was going to have to fight an uphill battle just to overcome that stigma.

View media item 1138990The gold standard for African-American stables in the WWE.


Another reason that I do not think the so-called "New Nation" had a chance at succeeding is because they were trying to create the wrong hierarchy within the group. Xavier Woods was the presumed leader, but the problem with that is that he is arguably the least charismatic member of the group. Granted, he is a PhD candidate in psychology, but that has yet to translate to him playing a realistic, compelling character on a professional wrestling program, much less one that could conceivably lead either Kofi or Big E. For evidence of this, for most of his TNA career, Woods played a character based on Apollo Creed from the Rocky movies, yet when he was feuding with Rusev, he cut a promo that was filled with inaccuracies regarding Rocky IV. In NXT, he played/plays a "geek" character, but beyond wearing pants with "Over 9000" on them and yelling "It's Morphin' Time" before doing his rolling, jumping clothesline, he never really seemed all that geeky. It's the same criticism levelled at Olivia Munn and a lot of other self-professed "geek girls" - they put on airs about liking video games or cult movies, but they can't actually describe anything that happens in them, or give you specific examples of what they like about something. Xavier Woods was a fake geek girl, and that was still more believable than his turn as R-Truth's dancing, funk-loving sidekick, which debuted Woods to the main roster audience and quickly revealed that he had about as much personality as a dirty gym sock. And maybe I am completely off-base here, and "possibly militant African-American faction leader" was Woods' transition from Rocky Maivia to The Rock, as playing an exaggerated version of his real personality might have finally let him shine, but based on his body of work thus far and his enlistment promo to Kofi and Big E, I do not think that I am being too hard on him.

As for Kofi and Big E, why would they agree to follow a guy who has been on the WWE roster for significantly less time than they have? Kofi made his main roster debut in WWECW in January of 2008 and Big E debuted in December of 2012, while Woods never appeared on a main roster show until November 2013. Then there is the fact that both Kingston and Big E have been champions in the WWE while Woods has not, with Big E actually holding the NXT belt while he and Woods were in the developmental promotion at the same time. And it would be hard to argue that they followed Woods because of some physical advantage, because Big E is a much more imposing physical specimen and Kingston is far more athletic. I understand that the WWE was trying to make it about Woods' intelligence and message, but realistically, Woods would need a significant improvement in his charisma to make this story even remotely believable. If the WWE does decide to continue with this storyline, they would do well to have Big E take over the leadership of the group as both its most physically impressive and most charismatic member.


View media item 1138991This guy should've taken the leadership reigns away from Woods.


Another reason that I don't think the group was bound for much success was because I have very little faith in the WWE's booking team to take existing characters, put them together, and make them popular. They have proven that they can book three-man factions well (look no further than the Shield right up until their breakup and the Wyatt family from their debut until Wrestlemania of this year), but that seems to be largely confined to unknown entities that they can give a strong debut to and keep momentum going for. This is indicative of the problems with the writing staff as a whole and their inability to actually get people over once their initial momentum has stalled, something that I've touched on before. Sadly, I have no faith that the writing staff of 2014 could find something constructive to do with these guys even if they had not picked the wrong guy to lead the group. The fact that the only things that they did during their brief run were beat Slater Gator on Main Event and Woods doing commentary during an Usos/RybAxel match while Kingston and Big E looked on pretty much speaks to my point.

"So Wyatt," you might be asking, "What could the WWE have done differently to make this stable work?"

Honestly, as I said before, I think it was always going to be an uphill struggle based simply on the fact that a lot of fans were dismissing this as the WWE taking a shot at The Atlantic (and there were even a few that believed it to be the WWE's answer to TNA's MLK stable). If the WWE were dead set on making the stable happen, though, the first order of business would've been a reorganization - have Woods be the one that brought them together, but make sure it's clear that Big E is the leader of the faction. Also, I think it might've eliminated some of the "WWE is just responding to allegations of racism" complaints if they would have brought R-Truth into the group at first, and then immediately turned on him for continuing to dance for the people, something Woods expressly told Kofi and Big E wouldn't get them anywhere. It would also be very important to ensure that they aren't full-blown heels - explain that they have a mission statement and show that they are going to stand behind it. Have them beat down a team like RybAxel after beating them in a match because they're angry that Ryback and Axel got singles title shots while Kofi was largely forgotten, but give them a clean win over Los Matadores where Woods cuts a promo after the match about them getting saddled with such a stereotypical gimmick. And also important is to not play up any kind of "black militant" theme or have them raising their fists in the ring - the goal is to put as much distance between this group and the original Nation of Domination as possible, to hopefully limit the comparisons between the two as much as possible.


View media item 1138992What might've been...


I am also a sucker for the Freebird Rules, so put differing combinations of the three members up against established tag teams and let them feel like an important thing - highlight Big E's power and Kofi's athleticism, and actually make Woods seem like he's smarter than the opposition, either as the ringleader when Big E and Kofi are wrestling, or as an Edge-type opportunist when he's actually wrestling. Call out the Usos for perpetuating the Samoan stereotype to set up a title match, or point out that Randy Orton has had literally everything he's ever had in the WWE handed to him on a silver platter immediately after a three-on-one beatdown. Let Big E be the one who finally unifies the Intercontinental and United States titles, since that rumor has been floating around for several months now. Basically, all it would take is for the WWE to actually commit to making these guys feel like a force to be reckoned with, something that's been severely missing since the Shield break-up and Cena's burial of the Wyatt family. But since I doubt that'll ever happen, it looks like we're back to bland face Kofi, misused Big E, and directionless Xavier Woods (unless you count losing to CJ Parker in NXT). And while I maintain that the stable had very little chance of actually being successful in the modern-day WWE, especially in comparison to its 90's predecessor, at least it would've been something different for all three men, something that would've given them some sort of purpose, no matter how vague. Of course, we also heard that the WWE was dropping the Rusev/Swagger storyline in the wake of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 being shot down over the Ukraine, and that obviously turned out to be incorrect, so that there is still a chance that they could prove me wrong with this fledgling Nation yet.
 
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According to F4WOnline.com, there have been a lot of rumors circulating claiming Vince McMahon and Triple H have been “butting heads” when it comes to Brock Lesnar’s opponent at WrestleMania 31.

Triple H reportedly wants Roman Reigns vs Brock Lesnar at the big PPV, while Vince wants The Rock vs Brock Lesnar.

Backstage word is that Vince tends to undercut Triple H sometimes, and even makes him look bad, but it could just be a case of “good cop/bad cop” as there are no real hard feelings between the two.

A good example would be Vince recently making Triple H look like the bad guy where it pertains to a possible Kurt Angle return.
 
Report: Vince McMahon and Triple H "Butting Heads" Creatively

There is reportedly a lot of creative tension between WWE Chairman Vince McMahon and Triple H who have been described as "butting heads" recently, including who to have Brock Lesnar face at WrestleMania 31.

Vince reportedly wants The Rock vs. Lesnar while Triple H is pushing for Roman Reigns vs. Lesnar.

Dave Meltzer of The Wrestling Observer Newsletter noted that Vince sometimes undercuts Triple H and makes him look bad but it could just be a "good cop/bad cop" dynamic. Meltzer added that he doesn't sense any strong negative feelings between the two.
 
Interesting article posted Peep Game Peep Game . The writer is obviously familiar with the product and has some solid reference points. My biggest gripe with the formation of the stable and then instant break up is that it was never addressed and really makes it seem like WWE just banded them together in response to the criticism they were receiving more than anything else. They as a company have made various references to how they need a Mexican star to retain that demographic, but never really say anything about Black fans, or even Asian fans for that matter. They should be trying to cater to all demographics and truly live up to the W= World aspect of the company name. Otherwise it's just lip service and a bunch of Bull...no Dempsey. But we have to wait and see if anything else develops from here.
 
Here's how I want it to play out..

1. Cena takes a month or two off..
2. Come back and admit that he was outclassed by Lazer..
3. Say he's going to start to work his way up the ladder again to earn a title shot..(He doesn't want the automatic rematch cause he was embarrassed in the last match)
4. Have a few co-main event matches with up and comers and have him barely beat them..(No Super Cena BS or magical comebacks)
5. Announce he's ready to face Bork for the title and film several vids of him working out and BL working out (Kinda like Rocky IV with Cena being Rocky and Brock being Drago)
6. Have the match happen at the Rumble..
7. Make it a much more back and forth contest for the first 3/4 of the match..Then have Brock "flip the switch" and dominate Cena the last 1/4 of the match..
8. Brock retains the title and as he's standing over Cena, have the Rumble winners music hit and show whoever that may be standing at the top of the ramp for a far away stare down..
9. Cena comes out on Raw the next night to say Brock was the better man and he knows he'll never be able to beat him..Tell the fans he's going to take a step back and re-evaluate his career..
10. From that point on Cena will be used in an UT type roll where he comes out for the occasional blockbuster match and to help put younger talent over..
11. Brock faces the RR winner at Mania and has a good back and forth match that he wins..Rollins music hits and he cashes in his MITB and wins the belt..That way you make Brock look amazing all the way up to Mania, start to faze Cena out of the title picture, build up newer talent, and establish a new feud between the guy who lost to Brock and Seth..That also keeps Brock looking good in the fan's eyes and he can also continue to be used in an Undertaker type fashion..
 
So there is a rumor on how long Devitt, Kenta, and Steen will be in developmental. Apparently all three had something in their contracts stating they wanted a short amount of time in developmental and then be moved to the main roster...

Facts. They were promised a short stay on nxt. 2015 they will all be brought up
 
Thought SummerSlam was absolutely great last night. Probably better than WM30 to be honest.
Couple things:
- That is absolutely how Brock should always be booked unless you have a true underdog you want to put over. New champ :smokin
- Orton carried Reigns in their match. Absolutely great showing by him. Knew Reigns was going to win, but hated the way in which Orton lost.
- ALPHA MALE ZIGGLER :smokin
- Rollins/Ambrose was very entertaining. Will be very happy to watch a couple more matches between the two.
- #HEELSTEPH looked great out there. Her pedigree game is too serious. Knew the Cenabella heel turn was coming, but it was very good nonetheless.
- Rusev/Swagger was a snoozer. Have no idea how that is actually considered to be a flag match.
- Bray/Jericho wasn't bad, but I just haven't been a fan of this program whatsoever..
- How is there no tag team title match on your 2nd/3rd biggest PPV of the year?!?
 
Regarding Brock, the article Peep posted nailed it on the head. It all comes down to a notoriously bad creative team and what direction they decide to go. If the WWE didn't pigeonhole itself by neutering talent and refusing to develop guys already on the main roster, you'd have worthy challengers to face Brock from here on out. They finally got it right last night with Brock beating Cena as he should have in 2012, but tonight is a new chapter. How they move forward will be telling. Roman Reigns is not ready for any WHC/WWE title shot at all. Stop focusing on the crowd reaction and look at the overall package. He can't talk, has to get carried in single competition and can't go at all. If this was anyone else, they'd have been demoted already.
 
Here's how I want it to play out..

1. Cena takes a month or two off..
2. Come back and admit that he was outclassed by Lazer..
3. Say he's going to start to work his way up the ladder again to earn a title shot..(He doesn't want the automatic rematch cause he was embarrassed in the last match)
4. Have a few co-main event matches with up and comers and have him barely beat them..(No Super Cena BS or magical comebacks)
5. Announce he's ready to face Bork for the title and film several vids of him working out and BL working out (Kinda like Rocky IV with Cena being Rocky and Brock being Drago)
6. Have the match happen at the Rumble..
7. Make it a much more back and forth contest for the first 3/4 of the match..Then have Brock "flip the switch" and dominate Cena the last 1/4 of the match..
8. Brock retains the title and as he's standing over Cena, have the Rumble winners music hit and show whoever that may be standing at the top of the ramp for a far away stare down..
9. Cena comes out on Raw the next night to say Brock was the better man and he knows he'll never be able to beat him..Tell the fans he's going to take a step back and re-evaluate his career..
10. From that point on Cena will be used in an UT type roll where he comes out for the occasional blockbuster match and to help put younger talent over..
11. Brock faces the RR winner at Mania and has a good back and forth match that he wins..Rollins music hits and he cashes in his MITB and wins the belt..That way you make Brock look amazing all the way up to Mania, start to faze Cena out of the title picture, build up newer talent, and establish a new feud between the guy who lost to Brock and Seth..That also keeps Brock looking good in the fan's eyes and he can also continue to be used in an Undertaker type fashion..
i aint eem mad at this. It makes sense so the WWE most likely wont go this route lol 
 
Guess were getting a triple threat.Brock rock reigns

Would only be dope if reigns improved crazy from now till mania ,even though IF he's still doing 5 moves I don't want him winning the royal rumble.

But since he will most likely win anyway,triple threat would be good only if he is greatly improved.

Good article.dude had good points and suggestions.
Article also showed me that we really need some of the ntwt fam to try and get jobs writing for the wwe and get things on track
 
I'm seeing a bunch of different things regarding tonight's Raw..

-New title belt with the new logo..
-New music for Raw..
-New video package for the start of Raw
-New ring apron with the new logo and a possible color change for the apron, ropes, and turnbuckle pads..
-And the most disappointing thing of all....
Jeans is going to start a 4-5 week long feud with Kane for the build up to his rematch with Seth at NOC..
 
What I took away from this Lesnar/Cena match is that's it was supposed to be DBry that got burried and embarrassed like that. I'm glad it was Cena :lol:
 
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