☆☆ 2012 NBA Finals ☆☆ The King has been crowned; Heat win 2012 NBA Finals! Bron Finals MVP.

[upptempo8387]

LeBron will retire as a legend, but unless he learns to be more clutch under pressure, there will forever be a * next to his name if/when he wins a championship(s)...Yes, for 47 minutes the guy is unstoppable...Great passer, great rebounder, great defender, great scorer in the paint and on the perimeter, and can run the fast break better than anyone in the league..But you can't be arguably the best player in the league with incredible skills and not be able to close out a game when it's on the line..He's too damn talented for that to happen.



Great players in the league..Durant-Clutch...Rose-Clutch..Kobe-Clutch...Wade-Clutch..Carmelo-Clutch...Even NT's most hated Russell Westbrook hits big shots in crunch time..There's no excuse for LeBron not being able to do the same. If he just put his head down and charged at the rim and finished strong, 99% of the time he's going to get fouled..He's a solid enough FT shooter to be able to hit those shots..The few times I've seen him drive to the hoop with the game on the line, he drove to his weak side or put his shoulder into the defender's chest n got called for a charge.

 

[xsalvioutlawx]

Originally Posted by HankMoody

Originally Posted by xsalvioutlawx

Originally Posted by JD617


If people don't know by now, there's really no point.

If he's so good why did he only average 2 points in the fourth quarter in the biggest series of his life? 
I guess you guys are talking about best REGULAR SEASON player?

Did you forget what he did in the 2 series before that? Those were the 2 biggest series of his life, at that moment, as well. LeBron had a terrible series for once. How dare he? 
LeBron in the 2009 playoffs ... 

What does it matter if you can't perform in the NBA Finals? If he's CLEARLY the best player as everyone in here is making it seem, than how can you not perform in the fourth quarter for a whole series? The biggest series of your life? 
There's no damn awards for SECOND place.

Yea, you're right. Lebron gets a pass for choking in the fourth quarter of the NBA finals. Doesn't mean anything, just cost him a title. No big deal. 

I know all the Lebron stans gonna gang up on me now, it's all good though. In the back of your minds you'll be praying he doesn't pull that 2 point average again in the Finals.

 

[651akathepaul]

You don't learn to be clutch. You just play. Lebron has all the neccessary tools to be "clutch." It's beyond that for him. When it gets to the 4th quarter, he just needs to play. It's that simple.

 

[hankmoody]

He had a bad series. Obviously. What do you want to me say? Better yet, who would you put in front of him? I'm just looking at the entire body of work. Heck even just last season.
Y'all can crown Dirk or whomever as better but I can't. Dirk had a nice run. Cool. He always had it in him but that didn't mean everyone didn't bash the guy consistently before last May. LeBron has at least a couple good Finals in him as well. I can't say otherwise based on the body of work.

 

[kidoopz]

So people really doing this. Putting Rondo above Paul as a Pure PG.. Rose better than Paul because of 1 head to head matchup this season. Please.. Saying if Paul was on the Bulls no difference would be made or the Bulls wouldn't be nearly as good... I mean it's different if the question was who would you rather want to run your franchise. I can see how some say Rose is better than Paul. (Actually I really Can't) He's there, but as a point guard. I'm taking CP3. Even as a player I am. Does everything you need out of a PG and does it very efficiently as well..And we all know he Can score if he wants to and at a high percentage.. Meh, Same thing people were saying about Deron Williams before, but now its Derrick Rose I see.. Meh Apples to Oranges..I prefer Paul though

Oh and Lebron is the best player in the NBA.. 4th quarter 4th quarter b/c he's not taking the big shot or somehow isn't destroying in the finals?.. Well I haven't seen Durant in the finals yet, nor Melo, nor Rose, so i'm not sure how they will perform until they get there. But I do know that Bron is getting his team there, but yeah he does have to come through in the fourth no joke... But if we using THIS as an argument on why he isn't the best in the league right now. It's Meh.. But, right now.. There is probably 1 other person your picking to match Lebron's output and that is Durant. And Durant is not a better player than Lebron... Well not for now.. Video Game James

 

[noelair24]

Originally Posted by UPPTEMPO8387

D Rose led his team to the best record in the league with only a few years experience under his belt..When were the Hornets ever in the top 4 in the West? I know he never had a stacked team, but if you consider Luol Deng, Joakim Noah, and Carlos Boozer to be "Stacked," you must have low standards

D Rose carried the Bulls many nights..MVP=Take him off the team and they're drastically worse..Imagine the Bulls current lineup w/o Rose and tell me they finish higher than 7th in the East..The guy is an incredible player..And this is coming from a Knicks' fan that has hated the Bulls since he was a kid


Oh yeah, and his biggest weakness in the past was inconsistent perimeter jumpers and dude is shooting a high percentage from the 3 point line..If he's consistently hitting deep jumpers on a nightly basis, it's lights out for majority of the leagues defenses

Did you happen to notice how weak the East is compared to the Western Conference? LolCome on now. Chris Paul top to bottom as a player is a better player clearly. That jumper alone vs the Heat last year Rose shot horribly if you guys already forgot. It's tougher to make it out of the Western Conference simple as that.

 

[CP1708]

No no no no.  I did not say cluch.  I'm not worried about that.  I didn't say that even one time. 

Bron could miss 20 in a row to tie or win a game, I don't care about that. 

I said, WHY CAN'T HE BE IN THE PLAYS?  Why is he closer to mid court, then the free throw line?  Why can I see 9 guys in play, but not him?  And why is he taking the ball out of bounds late in games? 

I'm not askin for the result, I'm askin for the damn participation of the guy at least.  That's it.  You guys have to understand, you're all in here sayin best, can't be stopped, God, etc etc, and yet, when it truly matters, he leaves the damn court damn near.  Guys, 9 guys were in full view, and he was no where to be found.  NOWHERE.  It was not like he fell in the backcourt and was late arriving, no, Wade was makin a move, and Bron was gone.  And as we all saw in the finals, it was not one time, or two times, or a fluke, it was a TON.  And it happened again tonight.  Vs a much lesser opponent mind you. 


Kobe/Melo/Durant take final shots all the time, make, miss, blocked, turnovers, good bad and ugly.  Oh well.  But they there.  RIGHT THERE.  All in the middle of it. 

Bron 40 feet from the hoop.  Doing, I have no idea what.  So I'm askin ya'll, why?  What the hell is that, from "the best player hands down we're all fools if we don't agree with,messiah, chosen one, King?  I mean, I'm the stupid one here? 

I wanna see D Rose run a game and the final 4 minutes be like here, you take it Rip, and see how that would play out on here. 

 

[0cks]

Originally Posted by StroShow4

He really does look serene out there...

 

[big j 33]

If we're talking about tonight specifically, CP? Lebron in-bounded it because no one else is making that pass on the team. Its not as if he threw it to Wade in the backcourt and ran away. They knew that play would work and he trusted his teammate and made the proper pass.

Could he have demanded the ball and charged to the hoop? Probably. But they called a smart play that won them the game.

If you're wanting answers for why he doesn't demand the ball and try to do everything on his own in the 4th quarter, I don't have the exact answer. Most likely because he doesn't have to playing alongside Wade, and so long as they're winning, I think that's all that will matter right now.

 

[noelair24]

Originally Posted by 0cks

Originally Posted by StroShow4

He really does look serene out there...

Love the similarities.

 

[Animal Thug]

It's crazy the hang-time Bron has when he's up there. Head level with the rim easily..
Naw I remember that nasty Kobe dunk right there. That one is killing what Bron did right there.

 

[upptempo8387]

Originally Posted by Noelair24

Originally Posted by UPPTEMPO8387

D Rose led his team to the best record in the league with only a few years experience under his belt..When were the Hornets ever in the top 4 in the West? I know he never had a stacked team, but if you consider Luol Deng, Joakim Noah, and Carlos Boozer to be "Stacked," you must have low standards

D Rose carried the Bulls many nights..MVP=Take him off the team and they're drastically worse..Imagine the Bulls current lineup w/o Rose and tell me they finish higher than 7th in the East..The guy is an incredible player..And this is coming from a Knicks' fan that has hated the Bulls since he was a kid


Oh yeah, and his biggest weakness in the past was inconsistent perimeter jumpers and dude is shooting a high percentage from the 3 point line..If he's consistently hitting deep jumpers on a nightly basis, it's lights out for majority of the leagues defenses

Did you happen to notice how weak the East is compared to the Western Conference? LolCome on now. Chris Paul top to bottom as a player is a better player clearly. That jumper alone vs the Heat last year Rose shot horribly if you guys already forgot. It's tougher to make it out of the Western Conference simple as that.

Ok but in 2011 the Bulls beat quite a bit of Western Conference elite teams..They beat the Mavs, Thunder, Lakers, Spurs (a few of these teams they beat multiple times) and they beat the 2 elite Eastern Conference teams of last year, the Heat (won the season series) and the Celtics. Being the best player on a team that had the best record and beat ALL of the top teams in the NBA says something.



I can't believe I'm defending the Bulls right now

 

[jumpmanfromdabay]

Lebrons headband gets higher every year on his forehead

 

[bdis1986]

Originally Posted by Big J 33

If we're talking about tonight specifically, CP? Lebron in-bounded it because no one else is making that pass on the team. Its not as if he threw it to Wade in the backcourt and ran away. They knew that play would work and he trusted his teammate and made the proper pass.

Could he have demanded the ball and charged to the hoop? Probably. But they called a smart play that won them the game.

If you're wanting answers for why he doesn't demand the ball and try to do everything on his own in the 4th quarter, I don't have the exact answer. Most likely because he doesn't have to playing alongside Wade, and so long as they're winning, I think that's all that will matter right now.

thank you sir

 

[noelair24]

Originally Posted by UPPTEMPO8387

Originally Posted by Noelair24

Originally Posted by UPPTEMPO8387

D Rose led his team to the best record in the league with only a few years experience under his belt..When were the Hornets ever in the top 4 in the West? I know he never had a stacked team, but if you consider Luol Deng, Joakim Noah, and Carlos Boozer to be "Stacked," you must have low standards

D Rose carried the Bulls many nights..MVP=Take him off the team and they're drastically worse..Imagine the Bulls current lineup w/o Rose and tell me they finish higher than 7th in the East..The guy is an incredible player..And this is coming from a Knicks' fan that has hated the Bulls since he was a kid


Oh yeah, and his biggest weakness in the past was inconsistent perimeter jumpers and dude is shooting a high percentage from the 3 point line..If he's consistently hitting deep jumpers on a nightly basis, it's lights out for majority of the leagues defenses

Did you happen to notice how weak the East is compared to the Western Conference? LolCome on now. Chris Paul top to bottom as a player is a better player clearly. That jumper alone vs the Heat last year Rose shot horribly if you guys already forgot. It's tougher to make it out of the Western Conference simple as that.

Ok but in 2011 the Bulls beat quite a bit of Western Conference elite teams..They beat the Mavs, Thunder, Lakers, Spurs (a few of these teams they beat multiple times) and they beat the 2 elite Eastern Conference teams of last year, the Heat (won the season series) and the Celtics. Being the best player on a team that had the best record and beat ALL of the top teams in the NBA says something.



I can't believe I'm defending the Bulls right now

That was the regular season. Lol The bulls would not make it past the 2nd round in the West.

 

[japanair21]

CP brings up a great point, it's always the fourth quarters where people wonder where LeBron goes.

He turns from a dominant player to a perimeter player. Even when he killed the Bulls/Celtics, it was mostly on the perimeter was it not?

Regardless, whether he slouches in the fourth quarter or not, I don't see how an argument can be made that anyone else is better than him.

I will say he seemed much more "clutch," prior to coming to Miami. Whether it be in the Playoffs, or regular season. Him during the Cavs days against the Pistons... Good God.

Is he clutch? Does he disappear and become a perimeter player in the fourth? Yeah, those are all valid points to bring up, but I don't think they are strong enough to even bother warranting a discussion of who's better.

It's weird that these questions have come up because before, there weren't any questions. We all knew he couldn't get it done in Cleveland, he just didn't have the help. But now he seems to like to control the game for three quarters and then defer to Wade for the final minutes of the game, and be a play-maker other than a finisher. Wade is pretty damn good at closing, no doubt, but it's not like LeBron doesn't have his moments in a different jersey.

I don't think we'll ever see the 48/9/7 LeBron again, just because of who he's playing with, but it doesn't mean he's declining.


As for the whole LeBron of SG's, I think Wade is the perfect compliment to Wade in terms of guys to fill in that spot. You give me a choice of which SG I choose to start a team I'm still choosing Kobe, but if we wanted to play a little fantasy team-making, Wade is a much better guy to put next to LeBron than Kobe would be.

 

[futuristic]

Originally Posted by Noelair24

Originally Posted by UPPTEMPO8387

Originally Posted by Noelair24



Did you happen to notice how weak the East is compared to the Western Conference? LolCome on now. Chris Paul top to bottom as a player is a better player clearly. That jumper alone vs the Heat last year Rose shot horribly if you guys already forgot. It's tougher to make it out of the Western Conference simple as that.

Ok but in 2011 the Bulls beat quite a bit of Western Conference elite teams..They beat the Mavs, Thunder, Lakers, Spurs (a few of these teams they beat multiple times) and they beat the 2 elite Eastern Conference teams of last year, the Heat (won the season series) and the Celtics. Being the best player on a team that had the best record and beat ALL of the top teams in the NBA says something.



I can't believe I'm defending the Bulls right now

That was the regular season. Lol The bulls would not make it past the 2nd round in the West.

The Bulls could contend for the West. The only team in the league that outmatched them last year was the Heat. 

 

[mronegative]

Caught the end of the Dallas game on free pass

Vince Carter looks like someone's dad won a fan contest.

 

[noelair24]

Originally Posted by Futuristic

Originally Posted by Noelair24

Originally Posted by UPPTEMPO8387


Ok but in 2011 the Bulls beat quite a bit of Western Conference elite teams..They beat the Mavs, Thunder, Lakers, Spurs (a few of these teams they beat multiple times) and they beat the 2 elite Eastern Conference teams of last year, the Heat (won the season series) and the Celtics. Being the best player on a team that had the best record and beat ALL of the top teams in the NBA says something.



I can't believe I'm defending the Bulls right now

That was the regular season. Lol The bulls would not make it past the 2nd round in the West.

The Bulls could contend for the West. The only team in the league that outmatched them last year was the Heat. 

Nope

 

[gangsta207therevolution]

Originally Posted by Noelair24

Originally Posted by Futuristic

Originally Posted by Noelair24



That was the regular season. Lol The bulls would not make it past the 2nd round in the West.

The Bulls could contend for the West. The only team in the league that outmatched them last year was the Heat. 

Nope

Your joking right? Please say that is a joke.
I told you all he would find a way to get better at every thing again
Its one game, but when he is able to pick his spots that well Vince Mcmahon's entrance music starts playing.
If you watched him play in HS you would know that he could pass the ball.
This is the same dude who didnt score and his team won a state title, and controlled the game to boot.
The passing for him was the last thing to come, but I think its here.....

 

[upptempo8387]

This guy can't be serious saying the Bulls wouldn't be contenders in the West

...If you swap the top 2 teams from either conference, it makes no difference to their record...Thunder would still be doing work in the East and Bulls/Heat would still be doing work in the West..If you're gonna sit there and pretend like the Heat wouldn't have gotten to the Finals last year if you put them in the West and put the Mavs in the East, then you're just lying to yourself..Heat killed the Lakers a few times last year, they match up well against the Thunder, and they have the playoff experience to get things done..Idk how you can say the Bulls wouldn't be contenders in a different conference unless you're just hating or trolling

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

Originally Posted by Noelair24

Originally Posted by UPPTEMPO8387

Originally Posted by Noelair24



Did you happen to notice how weak the East is compared to the Western Conference? LolCome on now. Chris Paul top to bottom as a player is a better player clearly. That jumper alone vs the Heat last year Rose shot horribly if you guys already forgot. It's tougher to make it out of the Western Conference simple as that.

Ok but in 2011 the Bulls beat quite a bit of Western Conference elite teams..They beat the Mavs, Thunder, Lakers, Spurs (a few of these teams they beat multiple times) and they beat the 2 elite Eastern Conference teams of last year, the Heat (won the season series) and the Celtics. Being the best player on a team that had the best record and beat ALL of the top teams in the NBA says something.

I can't believe I'm defending the Bulls right now

That was the regular season. Lol The bulls would not make it past the 2nd round in the West.

WTH!!???!!

This guy is delusional!

 

[Peep Game]

Originally Posted by 0cks

Originally Posted by StroShow4

He really does look serene out there...

 He does, like "I wonder what I'm gonna do for my birthday later?"

 

[seymore cake]

This WC is better than the EC is played... The two best teams in the league are in the East, hell I'm willing to take healthy NYK and Bos squads over a few of the WC's top tier to be honest. If you look at the East top 4 v the West top 4 the East is stronger IMHO.

In a 7 game series the only team I'd think we'd struggle with is Memphis and that due to the way they're constructed and their balance, and even them I think we'd win due to our defense and depth in the front court. There is only one player in the game that can force Pooh into a performance like that for 4 games so you take him out of the equation and it a completely different set of issues for anyone else.

Honestly if we get out of the East I don't see how we lose a series to anyone out west and thats just me being real.

 

[al3xis]

Originally Posted by CP1708

I'm begging you people to answer this, and none of you will.  Allen has before, and I enjoy listening to what he says on the matter, but everyone else runs from it.  They hide, like I can't see the @#$% right there on my screen.  
  
I had something written up until I saw this.

. I'll save it for a later date.