☆☆ 2012 NBA Finals ☆☆ The King has been crowned; Heat win 2012 NBA Finals! Bron Finals MVP.

[Deleted member 38182]

Can't wait!!!

 

[university of nike]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Less than 10,000 points, 15, 4 and 4 per game for a career, 3 titles, 1 6th man, no top 5 MVP finishes, 16.5, 4.5 and 4 in the playoffs, good PER in the low 20's, 2 all NBA 3rd teams, 4 solid defensive years based off those advanced numbers, and he'll be 35 in July. 

Please.  That resume is nothing. 

He gets in from flopping in other countries, yay for him.  But NBA wise, he isn't worth a damn. 

Let's see...

Originally Posted by CP1708

I second the Robery Horry to the HOF nom.  In fact, I been sayin it on here for years now. 

Less than 8000 points, 7.0, 4.8 and 2.1 per game for his career, 7 titles, no Sixth man, no top 500 MVP finishes, 7.9, 5.6 and 2.4 in the playoffs, his PER isn't even in the top 250 (but Shawn Bradley's is), no all-NBA teams, no ANYTHING... except his 1992-1993 NBA All-Rookie 2nd team. NICE!

You can't have it both ways, champ.

 

[beware the underdog]

 

[university of nike]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Horry gets his own wing in the NBA only HOF. 

The Robert Horry Hall of Fame Wing.™

Sponsored by Hakeem Olajuwon, Kobe Bryant, Shaquille O'Neal, and Tim Duncan.

 

[beware the underdog]

OM MY GOD!!!!..OWWWWWWWW SHUT IT DOWN!!!11 LETS GO HOME!!!!......ITS A  WRAP CP. That is a WRAP. WOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

 

[japanair21]

Damn man. I thought I was annoying. You make me feel better about myself.

 

[laker4lifeman]

Originally Posted by Beware The Underdog

OM MY GOD!!!!..OWWWWWWWW SHUT IT DOWN!!!11 LETS GO HOME!!!!......ITS A  WRAP CP. That is a WRAP. WOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

Did you just watch a AND1 mixtape?

 

[Deleted member 38182]

 

[beware the underdog]

And they loss......

 

[youngtriz]

Originally Posted by JapanAir21

Damn man. I thought I was annoying. You make me feel better about myself.

no you still are... dont feel any better, go grab a beer and think about what you type before you do it...

 

[darthska]

UofNike:

---

CP:

---

An an NBA guy, [Manu] hasn't done jack @#$%

Less than 10,000 points, 15, 4 and 4 per game for a career, 3 titles, 1 6th man, no top 5 MVP finishes, 16.5, 4.5 and 4 in the playoffs, good PER in the low 20's, 2 all NBA 3rd teams, 4 solid defensive years based off those advanced numbers

CP:

---

I second the Robery Horry to the HOF nom.  In fact, I been sayin it on here for years now.
Less than 8000 points, 7.0, 4.8 and 2.1 per game for his career, 7 titles, no Sixth man, no top 500 MVP finishes, 7.9, 5.6 and 2.4 in the playoffs, his PER isn't even in the top 250 (but Shawn Bradley's is), no all-NBA teams, no ANYTHING... except his 1992-1993 NBA All-Rookie 2nd team. NICE!
Well damn.

 

[CP1708]

Both ways? 

I would like to see Manu's moments that completely changed the course of NBA titles being won. 

I'd like to see the moments that Manu ended series with his shots at the buzzer.........multiple times. 

SEVEN rings.  What, 5-6 of those came from things that Rob did, IN THE POSTSEASON, when it counted most. 

I am sure, Manu has some nice moments, cool.  Robert adjusted history with some of his moments. 

And by the way, 2005, Tim Duncan wins a title, but not if Robert Horry doesn't save that day.  No no.  All you have to do is read what Simmons wrote about that in his book.  Duncan was about to LOSE that finals, and Horry saved his life. 

Sacramento poisoned Kobe to win in 2002, and Horry saved the Lakers life. 


He's daggered more hearts than any player not named Mike. 


Show me Manu doin that work.  Give me those examples and I will review them.  I'm a fair and honest guy, send them my way, and I will change my vote if you have the proof I seek. 

 

[dman14]

manu shouldve been the finals mvp in 05

 

[|A-Man|]

Originally Posted by laker4lifeman

Originally Posted by Beware The Underdog

OM MY GOD!!!!..OWWWWWWWW SHUT IT DOWN!!!11 LETS GO HOME!!!!......ITS A  WRAP CP. That is a WRAP. WOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

Did you just watch a AND1 mixtape?

I thought he was imitating Shaq imitating Kenny

 

[pmatic]

Time to play let's make a deal
Getting itchy yet?

We're a third of the way through the season (really), we have six weeks left to the trade deadline, but with apologies to Greivis Vasquez and Marreese Speights, thus far the regular season has yet to see a single significant trade consummated.

At some point, that's going to change, especially now that everybody has seen what's working and what needs fixing. While there is a technical roadblock to deal-making at the moment -- much of the league isn't trade eligible until March 1 -- there are still several players on the market who could change uniforms before then.

That's where I come in. Using the Trade Machine and a heavy dollop of common sense, I'm going to look at some trades that could or should happen in the near future. Here's what I came up with:
[h3]Chris Kaman to Houston (Proposed trade) [/h3]

Kaman is at the top of the trade heap at the moment, as he's being held out of games while the Hornets look for a deal for him. He can be traded as part of a package starting Feb. 12, or in a one-for-one trade before then.

The problem is that Kaman makes $14 million, which makes it extremely difficult to put together trades for him. For example, Kaman to Boston makes tons of basketball sense, but a deal for Jermaine O'Neal and JaJuan Johnson still requires Boston to throw in another $5 million in salary. I can't imagine the Celtics lumping in Chris Wilcox and Keyon Dooling just to get Kaman, because their rotation would be a mess after that.

The one trade that sort of makes sense is to send him to Indiana, which can snag Kaman using just its cap space. The Pacers would save the Hornets a big chunk of money in the process, send Louis Amundson back to New Orleans, and throw in a low-level prospect (say, Lance Stephenson) as a sweetener. But I don't think Indiana is willing to spend so much money to solve a problem it doesn't have -- the Pacers need guards, not bigs.

The other deal that works is to send Kaman to Portland for Marcus Camby, with the Blazers sending a guard prospect back to New Orleans. This is unpalatable for two reasons : 1) it just leaves the Hornets doing the same dance with Camby, and 2) the Blazers would inevitably face Camby on another Western team's roster after his inevitable buyout from New Orleans.

But the deal that works best is Houston's. The Rockets need another big and just so happen to have $11 million in unwanted expiring contracts lying around in the form of Terrence Williams, Hasheem Thabeet and Jonny Flynn; Houston is probably not going to part with New York's first-round pick (top-five protected) given the Knicks' struggles, but the Rockets have a second-rounder from Minnesota and a future first (2014 or later, depending on when they give New Jersey the pick they owe from the Terrence Williams deal).

---

[h3]Stephen Jackson to New Jersey (Proposed trade)[/h3]

Jackson got a DNP on Monday night and the Bucks seemed perfectly fine without him, as wings Carlos Delfino, Shaun Livingston and Mike Dunleavy are of roughly comparable quality to Jackson. The problem is that he has a terrible contract, which means he can only be traded for another equally terrible contract.

However, it appears there are several different workable combinations with New Jersey -- which is convenient given that Jackson and Dwight Howard have talked of wanting to play with each other. Even without Howard, the Nets have a glaring hole on the wings now that MarShon Brooks is out with a toe injury, and Jackson could help fill it.

Moreover, all these deals can be done now, with no March 1 limitations on the key players. The crux of the deal would be trading Jackson for Jordan Farmar and Johan Petro, all of whom have two years left on their deals and at roughly equal money.

Farmar has gone gangbusters of late but is difficult to use with Deron Williams and Sundiata Gaines, which is where part 2 of my deal comes in -- Milwaukee sends back the bigger Beno Udrih and Jon Brockman, and the Bucks get Anthony Morrow and Damion James. James is out for the season and has an expiring contract; Morrow gives Milwaukee another deep shooter to round out the wing rotation. Udrih, meanwhile, is more easily used in two-guard sets with Williams. As for Brockman, he fills the frontcourt void that Petro's absence creates.

---

[h3]Steve Nash to Portland (Proposed trade)[/h3]

Nash is a free agent after the season and, as our Marc Stein noted earlier this year, his contract isn't extension-eligible. So any team trading for him would basically be taking him on as a rental. Who would do such a thing?

Well, the Blazers might. Portland has been undone by uneven backcourt play so far this year, something that obviously would change the second Nash showed up. And they have the perfect pieces to put into a deal. Raymond Felton has an expiring contract of his own that nearly matches Nash's, which means the deal basically comes down to prospects. Portland can offer two young guards -- Nolan Smith and Elliot Williams -- and possibly a future draft pick, as well.

This may seem like small change for a player of Nash's caliber, but again, it's just a half-season rental, and I'm not sure the Suns will get any better offers than this. A year ago they might have been able to do nearly the same deal except with Nicolas Batum coming back; that isn't happening now.

The Suns may not be willing to deal Nash, of course; that's been their stance the past two years. But the overwhelmingly obvious fact that this team isn't any good even with Nash may cause them to change their tune.

---

[h3]O.J. Mayo and Ramon Sessions to Indiana in a 4-team deal (Proposed trade)[/h3]

Admittedly, this one is a little difficult, but put the pieces together and it all makes sense. Cleveland trades Sessions and Ryan Hollins and gets back a great guard prospect in Eric Bledsoe. Memphis trades O.J. Mayo and Marreese Speights, and gets back a real power forward in Tyler Hansbrough and a real backup guard in Randy Foye. (Side note: For some reason the trade machine blew up once I added Speights to this deal, so I left him out in the link. But he'd need to be in it to keep Memphis under the luxury tax).

Indiana gets a guard who can actually pass in Sessions, a long-range shooter in Mayo, who they can keep as a restricted free agent, and a fourth big in Hollins, and deals out three bench players (Hansbrough, Dahntay Jones and Amundson). And the Clippers deal from their excess at the guard spots to fill in the roster, sending out Foye and Bledsoe and getting back a wing defender (Jones) and a frontcourt reserve (Amundson). If they really need another point guard I'm sure Indy could add A.J. Price to this swap, too.

(Finally, a quick aside on the Clippers -- heck yes, that was the best dunk I've seen since Vince posterized Frederic Weis.)

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[h3]Dwight Howard to the Nets[/h3]
Unless the Lakers are willing to do a Andrew Bynum-Pau Gasol combo, this has become the best deal on the board. I say "become" because this wasn't the case a couple of months ago. However, MarShon Brooks' emergence has given the Nets another tantalizing piece to put into a Howard deal. He is out with a broken toe but that shouldn't bother the Magic, who would be making this deal for the long term.

Because of Kris Humphries' involvement it couldn't be consummated until March 1 and can't be done on the Trade Machine, but the deal is Dwight Howard, Chris Duhon and Hedo Turkoglu to New Jersey for Brooks, Humphries, Brook Lopez and Mehmet Okur. The Nets could actually get a $3.1 million trade exception for Lopez as well, while the Magic would get one worth $3.2 million for Duhon.

In addition, New Jersey can include four first-round picks: Its own picks in 2012, 2014 and 2016, and a pick owed to it by Houston from the Terrence Williams trade. It's the best way to get Orlando out of its salary-cap mess and give it the pieces to rebuild, and obviously it puts New Jersey in great shape with a Howard-Williams core.

 

[CP1708]

Resume: 16 years, 0 quality, 0 All-Stars … 4-year peak: 10–5–3 … 2-year playoff peak: 13–7–3, 40% 3FG, 78 threes (45 G) … played for 7 champs (’94, ’95 Rockets, ’00, ’01, ’02 Lakers, ’05, ’07 Spurs) … leader: Playoffs games (244) … played for ten 55-win teams and eight teams with a .700-plus winning percentage … played for 1 team that won fewer than 47 (’97 Suns, 40–42)
[font=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][font=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]
And we can’t leave Big Shot Rob out of a Pyramid that hinges on The Secret. It’s impossible. If you want to know why, here’s a trimmed-down version of a Horry column I wrote after Game 5 of the 2005 Finals, when Big Shot Brob
[/font][/font][font=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][font=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]25 [/font][/font][font=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][font=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]turned the series around in Detroit with a number of big shots (including the game-winning three in overtime). The title? "Big Shot Bob Bangs Another One."
Somebody needs to go through Robert Horry’s playoff games, pluck out all the big plays and shots, then run them in sequence for like 10 straight minutes with one of those cool sports video songs playing (like Aerosmith’s "Dream On" or Led Zeppelin’s "The Rain Song"). Who wouldn’t enjoy that? I bet Horry nailed at least 20 to 25 humongous shots over the years. Seriously.
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You might be asking yourself, "Wait, that opening paragraph sounded a little familiar." It should. I wrote it two summers ago. See, we would have remembered Big Shot Bob for life even before he saved his defining moment for Sunday night, throwing a rattled Spurs team on

his back in Detroit and making … I mean … it would almost demean what happened to write something like "some huge 3-pointers" or "a number of game-saving plays." Considering the situation (a budding Spurs collapse that seemed eerily reminiscent of the ’04 Lakers series), the circumstances (nobody else on his team was stepping up) and the opponent (a terrific defensive team playing at home), Horry’s Game 5 ranks alongside MJ’s Game 6 in 1998, Frazier’s Game 7 in 1970 and every other clutch Finals performance. If Horry hadn’t scored 21 of his team’s last 35 points, the Spurs would have been "Dead Man Walking" heading back to San Antonio. Instead, they’re probably going to win the title Tuesday night.

Forget about saving the season; Horry possibly altered Tim Duncan’s career. If the Spurs blew that game, they would have eventually blown the series and everyone would have blamed Duncan all summer, mainly because his epic stink bomb down the stretch brought back memories of Karl Malone and Elvin Hayes. Now he’s just another great player who had an atrocious game at the wrong time. That’s the power of Big Shot Bob. And if you think a rejuvenated/relieved/thankful Duncan isn’t throwing up a 35–15 Tuesday night, you’re crazy.
[/font][/font][font=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][font=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/font][/font][font=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][font=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]
My favorite thing about Sunday night’s game: When Horry drained a go-ahead three at the end of the third quarter, it was like sitting at a poker table with a good player who plays possum for an hour, then suddenly pushes a stack of chips into the middle.
[/font][/font][font=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][font=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Uh-oh. He’s making his move. [/font][/font][font=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][font=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]You could just see it coming. The rest of the game played out like that—the Spurs always seeming like they were one mistake away from blowing it, then Horry bailing them out again and again. By the time he jammed home that astounding lefty dunk in overtime, everyone knew the game would somehow end up in Horry’s hands. Well, everyone but Rasheed Wallace. We’re always too quick to demolish athletes who make dumb plays or screw up at the worst possible times, from Byner’s fumble to C-Webb’s time-out to poor Bill Buckner … but at the same time, I feel like ’Sheed’s brain fart will somehow get swept under the rug in the afterglow of such an electric game. Let the record show that Wallace’s decision to leave a scorching-hot Horry to double-team Ginobili in the final nine seconds of OT was the single dumbest play in the history of the NBA Finals. For sweeping significance and staggering inexplicability, it cannot be topped. You can’t leave Robert Horry alone in a big game. You just can’t.[/font][/font][font=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][font=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/font][/font][font=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][font=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]
Horry’s career has always been a nice litmus test for the question, "Do you understand the game of basketball or not?" Nearly all of his strengths aren’t things that casual fans would notice, and he’d be useless on the "And 1" tour. He’s a terrific help defender who constantly covers for his teammates. He’s big enough to handle power forwards and quick enough to handle small forwards. He picks his spots and only asserts himself in big situations when his team truly needs him. He doesn’t care about stats or touches—at all—which gives him something in common with maybe 2 percent of the league. And he gets better when it matters. What more would you want from a supporting player? I once compared him to a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, explaining that "Nobody ever talks about him, but he’s always there when you need him, just like the Peebee and Jay." I compared him to Nate Dogg, John Cazale
[/font][/font][font=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][font=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]29 [/font][/font][font=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][font=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]and every other famous person who flew under the radar screen but always ended up in good situations. [/font][/font][font=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][font=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]30 [/font][/font][font=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][font=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]When someone asked me in a recent mailbag whether I would have Horry’s career (multiple rings and rich) or Barkley/Malone’s careers (no rings and obscenely rich), I
opted for Horry’s career and didn’t think twice. Imagine playing on five (soon to be six, and then he went on to win a 7th) championship teams, ending up with a cool nickname, making $50 million, earning the everlasting respect of everyone who ever played with or against you … and you didn’t have to deal with any of the superstar BS? Have a great game, everyone notices you. Have a terrible game, nobody notices you. And that’s your life. Doesn’t that sound like the ultimate gig? In a league loaded with guys who believe they’re better than they actually are, Horry understands his own strengths and limitations better than anyone. That’s what makes him so great. And that’s why I like the poker analogy for him. He’s the guy sitting at the table with a towering stack of chips, the guy who never chases a bad hand, the guy who makes your heart pound when he’s staring you down. You never remember the hands he lost, but you always remember the ones he won. And when he finally cashes out and gets up from the table, you hope you never have to see him again.

Does that make him a Hall of Famer someday? Instead of making Horry’s case in full, I’m telling you a story that hasn’t even happened yet. Maybe it will be this summer, maybe next summer, maybe 15 years from now. But when ESPN Classic shows Game 5 of the 2005 Finals some day and I’m calling my buddy House just to tell him, "Turn on Classic, they’re showing the Robert Horry game," I can pretty much guarantee his response: "Which one?"
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[bballah3]

I someone really trying to argue that Manu ISNT a Hall of Famer?  The guy is a lock. He is the best international player outside of Europe to ever play in the NBA, and the second best international player (behind Dirk) to ever play in the league.

Rewind the 2004 Olympics if you have to.  

 

[airmaxpenny1]

CP belives he is so right all the time that you have no self-awareness of when you are totally wrong.
Robert Horry

You want it to be one way but it's the other way.

And poitning to buzzer beaters is laughable.  One 3 pointer does not determine a game, there are tens of points and billions of tiny plays that decides the outcome of a game.  And Manu sure as hell has made about a lot more than Robert Horry in his career.

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by bballah3

Rewind the 2004 Olympics if you have to.  

Why?  What does that have to do with anything I have said? 

I said NBA HOF, he is no where near. 

But I ackowledged, because of International play, he'll get in, which is a joke to me.  I don't give a flying flip about what someone does in Greece, or Brazil, or Nigeria, or Australia in terms of the HOF.  Unfortunately, they are all connected, so it is what it is, he'll get in. 

The NBA version of the HOF, he would not.  Not imo.  If others disagree, fine, but watching the 2004 Olympics, means jack @#$% to the discussion. 

Now kindly get your brother in LA in 3 years, thanks. 

  

 

[CP1708]

airmaxpenny1 wrote:

---

And poitning to buzzer beaters is laughable.  One 3 pointer does not determine a game, there are tens of points and billions of tiny plays that decides the outcome of a game.  And Manu sure as hell has made about a lot more than Robert Horry in his career.


One?  That's what Horry made, one? 

Oh


Horry is also the only player in NBA history to win MULTIPLE titles with THREE teams.  Just one extra little nugget he has that no one else does. 

Will he get in the real hall?  No, probably not. 

But some dude droppin buckets in Slovenia, yeah he gets in.  No questions asked. 

  

 

[big j 33]

Originally Posted by YoungTriz

Originally Posted by JapanAir21

Damn man. I thought I was annoying. You make me feel better about myself.

no you still are... dont feel any better, go grab a beer and think about what you type before you do it...

 

[university of nike]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Both ways? 

I would like to see Manu's moments that completely changed the course of NBA titles being won.

Manu averaged 20 points per game/4.2 assists @ a 50% clip during the 2004-2005 championship run. At 33 minutes per game.
Horry averaged 9 points per game/2 assists @ a 45% clip during the 2004-2005 championship run. At 27 minutes per game.

6 more minutes, twice the production, at a better percentage. Robert Horry wouldn't have been in position to hit those shots if Manu Ginobili hadn't played incredible playoff basketball.

You think that because some guy hits a few shots, he's in the Hall of Fame? Really?

Good to know that someone can be carried to the NBA finals, hit a few shots, and all of a sudden be in some sort of "elite" class. Like I said, a dude who has a lower PER than SHAWN BRADLEY somehow deserves his own wing in the Hall of Fame.

 

[noblekane]

anybody watchin nba tv right now? wow@ all of them dunks they are showing right now. when you see all of them dunks from the past, blake's dunk doesnt seem so great...

cwebb is the man on nba tv. he makes the show

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by University of Nike

We see it differently, no prob.  But I ask you an honest question, could you show the entire NBA history, 60+ years in say, a 10 minute video and not have Robert Horry in it? 

Not show any of his work, and the games he won, and I'm thinkin you all have forgotten some of the moments that man created, while still remembing every big shot Reggie Miller ever hit, or Larry Bird, but hell no to Robert Horry. 

 

Anyhoo, and in that same vid, could you skip over whatever Manu has done? 


I could.  EASY. 

Does Manu even have a game winner in his career in the postseason?  Not bein a @#$%, I'm asking you guys.  Does he?  I myself mentioned that crazy shot he last year, and that was a great moment for him.  In the first round, in a series they lost, but has he hit a bigger one then that? 


I get it, you all love you some Manu, and Horry is garbage, no prob, I have said multiple times, Manu will get in which to me is bogus, and Horry will not, which is bogus.  I have said it, I'm not sure what more you all want from me about it. 

  

 

[dacomeup]

Manu gets in based on his international status. Good career regardless, though.

Horry is no where near the HOF no matter how I look at that. I don't care how many game winners he has hit he simply doesn't have the body of work in regards to his career numbers.