2008 NT Boxing Post Vol. Oscar De La Hoya vs. Manny Pacquiao 12/6/08 HBO PPV

[dako akong otin]

Originally Posted by rock4light

For those who missed the war which was Vasquez Vs.Marquez III; it's on youtube:



Like someone said, it's a shame the purse was less than a million.

thank you! i missed this fight over the weekend.

 

[stringer bell 32]

From Rafael's ESPN Blog

[h1]Shaw nearly spoils perfect fight[/h1]
posted: Thursday, March 6, 2008 | Print Entry

Your weekly random thoughts…


• After the electrifying third fight between Israel Vazquez and Rafael Marquez last Saturday, it didn't take long for Marquez promoter Gary Shaw to ruin the moment. Instead of basking in the glory of one of the great trilogies in boxing history, all three fights of which he co-promoted, Shaw declared that he would protest the decision in the junior featherweight world championship fight. What a great way to ruin a great night. Shaw's grounds were pathetic, too. He unnecessarily lashed out at what the Marquez camp perceived as poor officiating from referee Pat Russell for taking a point from Marquez for a 10th-round low blow and for his decision to call a knockdown against Marquez in the final seconds of the 12th round. Without losing the points, Marquez wins the fight. Had he only lost one of the points, the fight would have been a draw. But that's life. The fact is, Russell did a perfect job officiating. He took the point for a slightly low blow after warning Marquez for straying below the belt numerous times during the fight. At some point, a referee must follow through on his warnings. The onus was on Marquez to make sure he kept his punches up. As for the knockdown, it was another perfect call. Vazquez had badly staggered Marquez, sending him reeling backward into the ropes, which he grabbed on to in order to keep himself on his feet. I don't think it would have been out of the question for Russell to have stopped the fight right then, but he showed tremendous poise by not pulling the trigger, even though Marquez had been blistered throughout the round and was in bad shape. Also, when the ropes clearly hold a hurt fighter up, it's a knockdown. That's what happened, and I shouldn't have to explain that to Shaw, who has been around boxing since the early 1970s. But Shaw couldn't pass up the opportunity to manufacture a bogus controversy. Instead of relishing the sensational fight he helped make possible and heaping praise on the fighters for their magnificent performances, he acted like a sore loser. It's exactly what boxing didn't need at the end of a terrific night.


• Just imagine how much more popular boxing would be had heavyweights Wladimir Klitschko and Sultan Ibragimov engaged in the kind of wildly entertaining fight that Vazquez and Marquez did?


• It's good for boxing that Oscar De La Hoya is going to fight a non-HBO PPV bout May 3 against Steve Forbes. Even if you're not thrilled with De La Hoya's selection of opponent, it's going to be a big night for the sport, and Golden Boy Promotions is going out of its way to make it an affordable event with tickets to the first-ever fight at the Home Depot Center's soccer stadium going for as little as $25. More than 17,000 tickets are $75 or less. You can't beat that for a big-time boxing event. And you have to give HBO credit for finding money not originally in the boxing budget in order to make it happen live on the network. That said, it would be a shame if HBO and Golden Boy didn't use the card, which figures to have a huge audience, to showcase a future star. Golden Boy is working with Japan's Teiken Promotions to promote 22-year-old featherweight titlist Jorge Linares, one of the brightest young stars of the sport. He has the potential to be on the pound-for-pound list for years to come. So, with an eye toward the future, HBO and Golden Boy should seriously consider making room for a second televised bout and including Linares -- coincidentally also nicknamed the "Golden Boy" -- on the card.



• With Showtime carrying a notable light heavyweight doubleheader from Tampa on April 12 -- Chad Dawson defending his belt against former champ Glen Johnson and Clinton Woods defending his version of the title against former champ Antonio Tarver -- and HBO televising from Las Vegas the April 19 fight between recognized light heavyweight world champ Bernard Hopkins and super middleweight champ Joe Calzaghe, who is moving up in weight, it just might be the most significant week in light heavyweight history. You have five of the top 10 175-pound fighters in the world and the division debut of the best 168-pounder on earth in three meaningful bouts. Who needs the heavyweights?



• I hear there is trouble with the proposed June super middleweight fight between Edison Miranda and Jean Pascal. If it falls through, how about Miranda against Mikkel Kessler. Now, wouldn't that be sweet?


• Whether you're a wrestling fan or not, I have to say one thing -- all the silly hype for Floyd Mayweather's March 30 WrestleMania XXIV match against The Big Show has been pretty entertaining. When Mayweather was on "Dancing with the Stars" last fall, I never missed an episode. Now, I find myself tuning in to WWE RAW every week.



• The recently announced Joan Guzman-Alex Arthur junior lightweight title bout is a pretty interesting fight. Although it's going to be in Scotland next month, I sure hope an American broadcaster finds a place for it.


• Anyone heard from Allan Green?


• I thought Robert Guerrero looked sensational knocking out Jason Litzau in a featherweight title defense last week. If Steven Luevano takes care of his business next week against Terdsak Jandaeng on the Juan Manuel Marquez-Manny Pacquiao II undercard, I would love to see a Guerrero-Luevano unification fight. It's the perfect "Boxing After Dark" bout for HBO or an attractive Showtime fight.


• Super middleweight Victor Oganov was 26-0 with 26 knockouts and causing a stir when he faced Fulgencio Zuniga on Showtime last fall. But Zuniga took it to Oganov, knocked him out in the ninth round and exposed him as a fighter with a manufactured record against weak opposition. Well, Oganov made his return to the ring recently and scored yet another knockout, getting rid of Thailand's Anont Donpradith in two rounds. But you want to talk about a soft touch? Donpradith's record entering the bout was a reported 0-7. Oganov could win another 26 in a row by knockout by fighting opponents like that.


• DVD pick of the week: It's likely to be the only John Ruiz fight that will ever make a DVD pick of the week, but since I am going to see Ruiz face Jameel McCline in Cancun, Mexico, this weekend -- something of a loser-go-home match -- on the Oleg Maskaev-Samuel Peter undercard, I pulled out the fight that has haunted Ruiz seemingly forever. It was a March 15, 1996, HBO fight with vaunted puncher David Tua on a card filled with young heavyweights squaring off. Tua charged at Ruiz and dusted him in shockingly violent fashion, knocking him cold in a mere 19 seconds. It was breathtaking. Ruiz probably never wants to see it again and I know he is sick of talking about it, but it remains one of the nastiest knockouts of the past 20 years. To Ruiz's credit, he bounced back from the devastating loss to twice win a version of the heavyweight title. That's two more times than Tua ever did.

I would love to see my boy Linares on the undercard of Forbes vs DLH

 

[shannonscrooks]

• I hear there is trouble with the proposed June super middleweight fight between Edison Miranda and Jean Pascal. If it falls through, how about Miranda against Mikkel Kessler. Now, wouldn't that be sweet?
Yes it would.

 

[theprofessorofpugilism]

That would be sweet, but i'm not sure if i'd like to see Miranda in with Kessler yet, i'd like to see him take out a fringe top 10 guy beforeleaping to the top of the division. Pascal was the perfect choice. Other than him, i'd like to see Miranda against Vitali Tsypko, Sakio Bika, or someoneelse of that ilk before he attacks a Kessler or a Lucian Bute.

 

[proshares]

• I thought Robert Guerrero looked sensational knocking out Jason Litzau in a featherweight title defense last week. If Steven Luevano takes care of his business next week against Terdsak Jandaeng on the Juan Manuel Marquez-Manny Pacquiao II undercard, I would love to see a Guerrero-Luevano unification fight. It's the perfect "Boxing After Dark" bout for HBO or an attractive Showtime fight.
Score.

 

[proshares]

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[h1]THINKING BIG[/h1] [h2]Can you imagine Manny Pacquiao fighting Ricky Hatton or Oscar De La Hoya? Crazy? Well then call Pacquiao crazy like a fox. He's thinking big and preparing to follow the yellow brick road to perhaps more fame -- and certainly more fortune.[/h2]
by Nat Gottlieb | Photos by Chris Farina/Top Rank

When Pacquiao's promoter, Bob Arum, first went on record late last year saying it is entirely possible that his 130-pound boxer might fight either Hatton or De La Hoya or both this year, more than a few people dismissed the notion as just talk.

But Arum kept saying it, and when both De La Hoya and Hatton came out and indicated they would consider facing Pacquiao, it created quite a buzz. While the axiom "styles make fights" is often true, it is also good to remember what the late great trainer Cus D'Amato said when asked what professional boxing was all about: "It's about putting @$#!% in the seats." Buzz can do that.

As an attraction, Pacquiao vs. Hatton and/or Oscar would be a pretty big deal," said Larry Merchant, the HBO commentator. "Because of Pacquiao's age (29), and his pound-for-pound power, you couldn't dismiss him. He might not be successful, but he'll make a lot of money and exciting fights."

"As an attraction, Pacquiao vs. Hatton and/or Oscar would be a pretty big deal," said Larry Merchant, the HBO commentator. "Because of Pacquiao's age (29), and his pound-for-pound power, you couldn't dismiss him. He might not be successful, but he'll make a lot of money and exciting fights."

If Pacquiao fights either of those two, the plan evidently is for the junior lightweight to check in first at a halfway house called the lightweight division, where fights with champions David Diaz and Juan Diaz have been seriously discussed. If Pacquiao is successful in those fights, the buzz would only increase.

"If Pacquiao beats Marquez (March 15), and then beats David Diaz and Juan Diaz, who wouldn't want to see him fight Hatton or Oscar?" Merchant said.

And while the boys hit harder at lightweight and are as fast as 130-pounders, Merchant thinks Pacquiao could conceivably mop up the division.

"Pacquiao is a freak in terms of his punching power," Merchant said. "Pound for pound, Pacquiao is the hardest puncher in boxing, and when you can hit like that it sometimes makes up for shortcomings. At 135, Pacquiao will probably still punch harder than anybody in that weight class."

Many fans apparently agree with Merchant. In a recent poll on HBO's boxing website, readers were asked who they thought was the hardest puncher in boxing. The choices were heavyweights Samuel Peter and Wladimir Klitschko, middleweight Kelly Pavlik, welterweight Miguel Cotto and Pacquiao. Over 18,000 voted, and this is what the poll concluded:

Peter (7 pct.), Pavlik (15 pct.), Cotto (21 pct.), Klitschko (28 pct.) and Pacquiao (29 pct.)

In fighting significantly bigger men, Pacquiao, who began his career as a flyweight (112 pounds), would have more than a little history on his side. There have been numerous instances of smaller men moving way up in weight and successfully challenging a much bigger champion. The most recent example is Roy Jones Jr., who began his career as a junior middleweight in 1989, and then 14 years later challenged and defeated heavyweight champ John Ruiz, while giving away three inches and 33 pounds.

Top Rank's vice president and matchmaker Bruce Trampler, who promotes Pacquiao, doesn't think the difference in weight is all that big of an obstacle.

"Would you say Miguel Cotto's skills changed when he moved to 147 (from 140)?" Trampler said. "No. He was better able to fight his fight when he went to welterweight, and it may be that Manny will perform better if he doesn't strain himself making 130."

But Hatton walks around at around 180 pounds and boils down to 140, and Oscar has fought as high as 160 and has been campaigning at 154. Isn't that a heavy pill to swallow, Bruce?

"Stop with the weight, will you?" Trampler said. "Cotto isn't tall (5'7"). Floyd (Mayweather Jr.) is only an inch and a half taller than Manny (5'6 1/2"). Each boxer has his own body, and his own physiology is different than the next man's. Alexis Arguello (Hall of Famer) kept moving up from bantamweight (11 to super lightweight (140), and would have done well had it not been Aaron Pryor (Hall of Famer) waiting for him at 140 (Pryor beat him twice). Often it depends on who you have to fight when you move up."

Asked how Pacquiao would do against Hatton and De La Hoya, Merchant had a surprising answer.

"On the basis of age, Pacquiao's chances might be better against Oscar (35)," Merchant said. "Hatton is the same age as Pacquiao (29). Pacquiao and Oscar would appear to be a mismatch, especially in height (De La Hoya is 5'10 1/2"), but Oscar is six years older, and would be fighting a big puncher, a phenomenon still in his prime."

Arum in a recent interview said pretty much the same thing: "Manny Pacquiao brings a lot to the table against Oscar," Arum said. "He has the speed, a good punch, he takes a good punch. He may be outsized by De La Hoya, but remember, when he fought Barrera (last October) he went into the ring weighing 144 pounds (after weighing in at 130). So it is not out of the question. Certainly not."

While Pacquiao has the pressure and expectation of the entire Filipino nation weighing on him, losing to either Hatton or De La Hoya wouldn't necessarily be seen as a career setback.

"The point here is Pacquiao would fight Hatton or Oscar for a huge purse, and it would be a no-lose situation," Merchant said. "If he loses to bigger men, so what?"

Should either fight actually go down, don't expect to see Pacquiao bulk up and turn into the Incredible Hulk. Speed is the first thing to go when a smaller fighter puts on a lot of extra muscle. "I think if he would fight in the mid 130s when he goes up in weight, he wouldn't lose any speed," Merchant said.

Hatton is a perfect example of the perils of putting on more weight. When Hatton first moved up to welterweight to fight Luis Collazo in 2006, he bulked up and weighed in at the limit of 147 before entering the ring at 154. Although Hatton won, he later blamed what was a less than stellar performance on adding the weight, and vowed the next time he fought at welterweight, he would not follow the same script.

When Hatton fought welterweight champ Mayweather last December, he weighed in under the limit at 145. And while he lost the fight via knockout, Hatton fought more like the 140-pound version of himself.

Perhaps the most famous example of a fighter staying at his best weight despite taking on a bigger man is the great Henry Armstrong, who in 1938 weighed in at just 133 pounds when he beat welterweight champion Barney Ross. That victory made Armstrong the only man in history to own three world titles at the same time (he also was featherweight and lightweight champ). Armstrong then defended his welterweight title eight straight times, while never weighing more than 135 pounds.

Although Hatton fought the bigger Mayweather mainly for prestige (and also got paid quite nicely), Trampler says that would not be the driving force behind Pacquiao taking on the Brit or De La Hoya.

"Forget boosting careers," Trampler said. "It's all about money. Floyd wanted to fight Oscar and Hatton for the Benjamins, as opposed to Margarito or Cotto for good, but not great purses. Everyone wants to fight an Ali, De La Hoya, Hatton, Leonard and a Pacquaio because they can get paid as opponents. Juan Diaz or (Joel) Casamayor can't make real money unless they fight an attraction. Middleweights who couldn't get arrested are now lining up to fight Kelly Pavlik."

Merchant also says money is the reason why so many boxers call out De La Hoya and Pacquiao.

"With Oscar it is strictly about money for the other fighters. With Manny, it is also about money in the sense that he can generate the most money of anybody in the lower weight divisions. Plus, if you beat him, or put on a good showing, it will get you many other fights," Merchant said.

Pacquiao fighting Hatton or De La Hoya would put plenty of @$#!% in the seats and make everyone involved a great deal of money, which is why you shouldn't be surprised this year to see the Filipino taking on the big boys.
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[theprofessorofpugilism]

Manny gets DESTROYED against Hatton or De La Hoya. Manny would simply be cashing out, he stands NO chance to win either fight. I say in either matchup he'sknocked out inside 3 rounds, and thats a conservative guess.

 

[jagshemash]

Kessler has already responded and said he doesn't want the fight with Miranda.

 

[dako akong otin]

i'm not really excited with this pacquiao fight... part of the reason is that i'm sick of the hype. anyway, i'm off to the arena to watch boxingin a couple of hours... its not pacquiao/marquez, but is is a championship fight

And a couple of my sparring partners making their debuts at 130lbs. None of them are the next Pacquiao, but maybe the next Amonsot

 

[theprofessorofpugilism]

From FightNews.com:

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In an unusual occurrence, Jose Luis Castillo was invited by WBC President Jose Sulaiman to step to the scales after the heavyweights in advance of Friday's official weigh in for the lower-weight fighters. He tipped the Toledos at 147.5 pounds and will need to make 140 pounds by Friday's weigh in to qualify for the scheduled WBC super lightweight eliminator against undefeated WBC No. 1-ranked contender Timothy 'Desert Storm' Bradley.[/font]
Man, i'm REALLY concerned for Castillo's health at this point. He's in bad need of money, and his body has been torn to shreds fromall yo-yoing in weight and all the wars over the years. Him trying to drain 7.5 pounds in 24 hours is insanely unhealthy. I hope he doesn't make weightand the fight gets canceled, or else he'll be putting himself in EXTREME danger tomorrow night. I just thank god Bradley's is a boxer and not much ofa puncher, or else Castillo could be REALLY screwed.

 

[bigmike23]

is it really that hard to make weight?? i mean if ricky hatton can do it time after time i dont see how anyone else has a problem doing it

 

[stringer bell 32]

The second I read the title I knew it had something to do with his weight

 

[theprofessorofpugilism]

Originally Posted by Bigmike23

is it really that hard to make weight?? i mean if ricky hatton can do it time after time i dont see how anyone else has a problem doing it

Castillo's weight problems are different than Rickey Hatton's. Rickey just gets fat and has to cut off the fat to make the weight. Castillo cutsoff all the fat from his body, then continues to cut more weight to make an even lower weightclass. It was the same thing Diego Corrales used to do. He cutall the fat, but continued to dehydrate and starve himself to hit the weight class below and have a size advantage. What Castillo is doing is like if Hattoncut off all the fat to get to 140, then kept dehydrating himself further to hit 135.

 

[theprofessorofpugilism]

From FightNews.com:

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Weight KOs Castillo again!
Photo: David Martin Warr/DKP

Former world champion Jose Luis Castillo has pulled out of his WBC junior welterweight eliminator with #1 rated Timothy Bradley on Saturday night's Maskaev-Peter undercard in Cancun. Castillo said stomach pains prevented him from losing the final three pounds required to make the 140lb limit. "I am very sorry, I feel depleted," stated Castillo. "I think it would be for the best. I don't want for anything in the world to hurt this sport....last night I had increasingly intense pains and my trainer and the doctor suggested I cancel the fight for my own safety." Castillo and his team returned this afternoon to Mexicali.[/font][/font]
While that sucks for Bradley, I'm glad Castillo pulled out, he was gonna put himself in a DANGEROUS position if he tried to fight afterdraining all that weight.

 

[mayweathermiami]

only $+%*!%! that goes out for tacos n beers days before a fight.......same reason he in debt is the same reason he gonna end up with a bunch of health issues


i would not be surprised if he was completely drained against hatton

 

[theprofessorofpugilism]

Oh he was ungodly drained against hatton. He ballooned up to 153 between the weigh-in and fight night. Adding 10% of your weight in 24 hours is incrediblyunhealthy. The general rule is that you shouldn't be anymore than one weight class higher than what the fight is contracted, so 140lber'sshouldn't be heavier than 147 in ring, 147 shouldn't be higher than 154, etc.

 

[proshares]

I really don't think he should be fighting at this level anymore anyways. Too many wars for this guy. He reminds me a little of Vargas. Where are themajority of you guys going tomorrow, Showtime or HBO?

 

[theprofessorofpugilism]

HBO live, Showtime on tape delay. Although, i'm most looking forward to Haye-Maccarinelli. I'm just not really interested in Peter-Maskaev, and whileDiaz-Campbell is a very good matchup, the cruiserweight fight is just a bit better of a match, imo.

 

[stringer bell 32]

I got my girlfriend's brother in law birthday party to attend

I'm recording both HBO and Showtime

 

[mextra45]

ESPN just showed the second best fight of the year Cristobal Cruz vs Thomas Mashaba straight up brawl , Cruz threw 1580 punches and Mashaba threw 980 . If youcan catch the replay later tonight or get a copy its is definitely worth watching .

 

[theprofessorofpugilism]

Damnit, i forgot to set my dvr to record FNF. I guess i need to catch the replay, thanks for the heads up mex.

 

[mextra45]

http://fights.worldboxingvideoarchive.com/login.php if you are looking for a fight new or classicor from overseas you can probably find it here

 

[stringer bell 32]

Originally Posted by mextra45

ESPN just showed the second best fight of the year Cristobal Cruz vs Thomas Mashaba straight up brawl , Cruz threw 1580 punches and Mashaba threw 980 . If you can catch the replay later tonight or get a copy its is definitely worth watching .

I'm watching it right now, thanks for the heads up

 

[shannonscrooks]

Originally Posted by TheProfessorOfPugilism

HBO live, Showtime on tape delay. Although, i'm most looking forward to Haye-Maccarinelli. I'm just not really interested in Peter-Maskaev, and while Diaz-Campbell is a very good matchup, the cruiserweight fight is just a bit better of a match, imo.

Probably going to go the other way. Want to see USS Cunningham fight the winner of this.

 

[mfr3shm]

Looking forward to seeing the baby bull in action today.

Showtime is having a free promotion this weekend so i'll get to watch the boxing on showtime tonight because i don't want to watch another heavyweightmatch, but i think Samuel Peter knocks out Maskaev.