[::2009 Champion LAKERS OFF-SEASON THREAD Vol. Boring Non-News Days Causing In-Thread Tension::]

[mjsaver]

I know im going to get STONEFACED, but w/e....

Ariza SHOULD get more money than ODOM...I.M.O

Forget about that sentimental stuff, the NBA is a business right??? I want LO back but ARIZA should be a higher priority..

Ariza has been waaay more consistent than ODOM throughout the season..ESPECIALLY THE PLAYOFFS...

Odom has been so INCONSISTENT its like nobody is even suprised anymore if he doesnt show up...

He needs the ball in his hands a whole lot more to be really effective, which wont happen with L.A.

Add in the fact that ARIZA is young, defensive, and developed a much better shot...Hes now our 3rd m.v.p...

 

[long beach vincey]

Ariza is nothing more than a 5th wheel

Ariza cannot defend 4's. He cannot create off the dribble. As far as I'm concerned he will never be an All-Star

The overrating of Ariza has gotten out of hand

With all that said Ariza offers everything Odom doesn't. LA needs both if they want to go for a dynasty.

Gun to my head I'd roll with Odom, even if he's "older" he's clearly the better talent now, and probably for at least the next few yearsover Trevor.

 

[goldmember]

Originally Posted by Long Beach Vincey


Ariza cannot defend 4's. He cannot create off the dribble. As far as I'm concerned he will never be an All-Star

Why the hell would you want him defend a 4 anyway?

.. so you expecthim to guard the likes of Boozer, Amare, Dirk..etc? ... !@%% doesnt make sense at all..

If Mo Williams can make it ... i dont see why ariza cant be an all-star..

 

[kal ripped ken]

Lamar is much more important to this team than Trevor. Especially since Bynum hasn't returned to his pre-injury form

 

[herman818]

A few opinions, please feel free to constructively disagree.
This is exactly why Kup gets paid the big bucks, to make decisions like these. I have been a long time fan of Odom and definitely want him to stay and Ariza aswell. Trevor had two huge plays in the Denver series and had a break out serious on the NBA's biggest stage. If I'm not mistaken, Sasha played well inthe finals last season and look at his production this year after getting the contract. I do have high hopes for Ariza but putting all your chips on him justbecause he's younger as opposed to Odom is a gamble considering that experience was the factor in this year's Finals. And for those who say to get ridof Luke, what are you thinking? There is a reason why Phil and the coaching staff like him and give him playing time. He may not be the most talented but heplays like a coach, with high basketball IQ. Every time someone has something good to say about Luke its he's a smart player. He makes good plays byreading the defense and knows the triangle well which when properly executed is nearly impossible to stop. When you have players who can score, you needplayers who can get them the ball. Proper spacing and penetration inside through passing is key to running the triangle. As far as Kobe is concerned, I thinkhe will opt out and go for a max deal putting Jerry Buss in a financial strangle hold. This may be Kobe's last big contract and why not cash in on beingthe finals MVP. Everyone is talking about Odom and Ariza but what about Kobe? Buss has chosen him over Shaq, he still has many good years left in his careerand we know his work ethic in unmatched so I think he would be the most important piece to get back.

 

[80jerryrice80]

Originally Posted by Kal Ripped Ken

Lamar is much more important to this team than Trevor. Especially since Bynum hasn't returned to his pre-injury form

True, but I still don't think Trevor is a dispensable player.
Btw i really hope bynum plays up to his expectations

this season, thewhole season.

 

[ryda421]

does any think it's possible for us to have 4 all-stars ?

that would be nice

edit:
LO will stay because it is clear that he wants to retire with the LAKERS, he even talked about taking a pay-cut

as for ariza, he should at least get a contract which can pay him 7-9 million.

 

[presequel]

either way, we gonna overpay for odom/ariza just like we have for sasha/walton.

 

[mjsaver]

Originally Posted by Long Beach Vincey

Ariza is nothing more than a 5th wheel

Ariza cannot defend 4's. He cannot create off the dribble. As far as I'm concerned he will never be an All-Star

The overrating of Ariza has gotten out of hand

With all that said Ariza offers everything Odom doesn't. LA needs both if they want to go for a dynasty.

Gun to my head I'd roll with Odom, even if he's "older" he's clearly the better talent now, and probably for at least the next few years over Trevor.

You stonefaced me but your argument is silly....Ariza cant defend 4's

, thats not in his job description...

And nothing more than a 5th wheel, youre reaching HARD... He had a serious impact this year now that hes 100%...

Of course we need them both, my comment was ARIZA SHOULD BE A HIGHER PRIORITY.........thats all

KOBE cant keep avg 25-30ppg & guard the other teams best player , KOBE saves a ton of energy with ARIZA on the foor..

 

[Los Angeles]

I think LBV brought up that Ariza cannot defend the 4s is because Lamar can defend mostly any position out there.

You'd be CRAZY to think Ariza deserves more money than LO.

If you bring up the point of Lamar not being consistent ... then factor how Ariza has been traded 3 times in his career and NEVER getting a shot in both ofthose teams.

He was injured with the Lakeshow and finally comes up with 1 good year and now he deserves to be hyped up to no other? nahh I'm good.

I'd like to see how the market value will be in the NBA, will teams fork out ridiculous contracts in these tough economic times (word to the MLB).

All I'm saying, we need both Trev and LO back - we can debate on and on who we think is right for the Lakers; I know without question I'd go for Lamar.

Like everyone says, Trevor is young and I could see a stupid +$% team giving him a contract they're going to regret it.

 

[mjsaver]

Brightnikes i see what youre saying...

But WINNING MAKES PEOPLE FORGET HUH???

Where was ODOM during last years finals??? He might as well have been in the locker room..

If we had lost LAKER fans wouldve called for ODOM's head above all others...

But it seems since we've won all is forgotten, thats funny....Its cool i guess im CRAZY, lol....

 

[i nasmatic i]

See to me, it's not about the money concerning Lamar and Trevor. It's about the length of the contract. Lamar is going to turn 30 later this year whileTrevor is only 24. I don't want the Lakers to give Lamar a five year contract, because by the time his contract ends he'll likely be out of his prime.Trevor would only be 29 if given a five year contract, just into his prime. You also got to factor in Andrew's development. He should be ready toplay a consistent 35 MPG in another season, so it be dumb to give Lamar a five year contract with Pau already earning his 35-40 MPG. Management is going toeventually want Andrew to get the minutes so he can earn that money he got before the start of the season. Meanwhile, Trevor will be battling for minutes at SFwith Luke. So in the end, Trevor should get the longer contract and money (in the long run) than Lamar. A contract of five years-$35M for Ariza would beperfect and a contract of three years-$27M for Lamar would be ideal.

 

[Los Angeles]

Originally Posted by MJsaver

Where was ODOM during last years finals??? He might as well have been in the locker room.. .

Where was Ariza

?

 

[mjsaver]

Originally Posted by bright nikes

Originally Posted by MJsaver

Where was ODOM during last years finals??? He might as well have been in the locker room.. .

Where was Ariza

?

Coming off an injury, you know he wasnt 100%....Thas just like asking where was BYNUM during this playoff run, he did very little...

Also since ODOM is so much more important to the team as you say, wouldnt he be expected to do much more in the finals...

Youre sorta doing ODOM a diservice comparing his productivity to ARIZA's since hes so much more important...in your opinion....

 

[darth dnzy]

--Haters at work and hater friends on myspace having NOTHING to say = Appreciated.

 

[long beach vincey]

Come on guys, I brought up that Ariza cannot guard the 4 assuming that Lamar is gone and LA is only left with Trevor. I brought up that point because Lamar canguard 3's AND 4's and some 5's. If LA only keeps Trevor, there's only Kobe left that can create anything for himself on the perimeter. Kobe hasnot shown that same burst/ability to get to the rack as years past so LA would be asking A LOT from Kobe in terms of just creating for others.

Trevor/Lamar debate is extremely close but the bottom line is Lamar is a better player. Nothing more to it. You keep the better player if you have to chooseone.

And if you keep both you pay Lamar more than the spot up shooter Trevor.

 

[mjsaver]

Originally Posted by Long Beach Vincey

Come on guys, I brought up that Ariza cannot guard the 4 assuming that Lamar is gone and LA is only left with Trevor. I brought up that point because Lamar can guard 3's AND 4's and some 5's. If LA only keeps Trevor, there's only Kobe left that can create anything for himself on the perimeter. Kobe has not shown that same burst/ability to get to the rack as years past so LA would be asking A LOT from Kobe in terms of just creating for others.

Trevor/Lamar debate is extremely close but the bottom line is Lamar is a better player. Nothing more to it. You keep the better player if you have to choose one.

And if you keep both you pay Lamar more than the spot up shooter Trevor.

The better player isnt always the better answer though...

Didnt you see DENVER greatly improve by trading the better player, for one who's more effective for their system....

Please dont reduce ARIZA to a spot up shooter....So what he's KAPONO or Scerbiak know, thats anothr HARD reach...

Again l like ODOM, hes my 2nd favorite LAKER...Again i just think ARIZA should be a higher priority....WE NEED EM BOTH...

I agree with your point about needing someone who can create, thats why i hope we get a TRUE point guard...

 

[i nasmatic i]

You got to think about the future too though. Looking at the core from this past season, it breaks down like this; players in their prime (Kobe, Pau, Lamar,Luke), out of their prime (Fish) and a player not really going to get any better than they already are now (Sasha). So that leaves the young players withpotential (Andrew, Trevor and Jordan). If the Lakers were to lose Trevor it would hurt immediatley due to the loss of athleticism, defense and shooting. Itwould also then hurt us three or four years from now when the guys in their prime are out of it.

 

[long beach vincey]

I know I was oversimplifying on two fronts:

1. Keep the better player
2. Trev being a spot up shooter

But there's more truth in those two things than not.

This isn't a case of LA not knowing what they'll get out of either player. Both players fit into this system and team extremely well. Therefore youkeep the player who is "better" and can bring more to the table.

I said it before, but it's well-documented that Trev offers what Lamar doesn't: consistent spot up 3-ball and ability to defend the opposing team'sbest wing player-- which allows Kobe to conserve energy for offense. LA needs that if they want a dynasty. However if I had to choose between Trev's assetsand LO's, you have to go with the Candyman. I think it's already been well-stated what LO has that Trev doesn't. At this point I would not becomfortable without Lamar... Trevor has yet to show me he can take defenders off the dribble.. yet to show me he can create offense for himself.

My initial post was more so to point out that it is absurd to think that Trev deserves more dough than Lamar.

 

[dyyhard]

i hope Shannon Brown stays too. If Kobe gives Shannon his off-season shooting program, we're looking at .400+ from 3pt shooting range season/.500 + in nextyears playoffs from downtown.

who knows? he could be looking at a CJ Miles type deal this summer from another team. after the summer though, he'll maybe in a better situation thanAriza was before the start of this past season. It's amazing what playing with Kobe/championship squad can do for you. but whatever happens, I hope he getsa nice long term deal, after tinkering on journeyman status.

 

[goukiteg]

I really don't think one is more important than the other. The great thing about this team is that we can match up with just about anyone because of ourversatility which is something Lamar and Trevor both give us. And I really like Brown defensively ability and his spot up shooting.

 

[CP1708]

I talked about this early in the postseason, while Ariza is clearly younger and helps out Kobe a ton by playing D on the peremiter, if Bynum or Gasol goesdown, we have NOTHING left to fight with without Odom.

Odom is what makes Gasol more versatile. He lets Gasol go to the center spot when Bynum is out or in foul trouble.

Odom can also run the offense as a 4, and can just do more things. Ariza can't even dribble yet without lookin at the ground.

 

[u ttocs]

It would be hard to see Ariza go because he's literally the perfect fit for this team. He takes pressure off Kobe by being able to guard the best scorer,and he makes outside shots. On an average team he'd probably fade into oblivion like he use to. But on the Lakers he's a perfect role player next toKobe. I think Odom stays regardless. But I think some team will offer Ariza a nice contract and we won't be able to match.

 

[mjsaver]

We can downplay either player too make our points....

ODOM only plays well in the playoffs 1 out of 4 games

....SEE its easy

Like we've stated countless times we need em both BOTTOM LINE..

 

[goukiteg]

The only thing that bothers me about Ariza is sometimes he thinks he's Kobe out there with his crazy %%! rim attacks and AWKWARD layups.