[::2009 Champion LAKERS OFF-SEASON THREAD Vol. Boring Non-News Days Causing In-Thread Tension::]

[::2009 Champion LAKERS OFF-SEASON THREAD Vol. Boring Non-News Days Causing In-Thread Tension::]

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[h1]http://www.clublakers.com/lakers-discussion/rosen-rodman-was-winner-but-artest-t115056.html[/h1]
[h1]Rosen: Rodman was a winner, but is Artest?[/h1]Once the game lights were turned on Rodman was relatively easy to coach. He knew his role, didn't demand the ball, played with great intelligence, and was rarely out of position at either end of the court. However, getting him to games, practices and team flights on time was frequently difficult - primarily because of his party-hearty tendencies. Sometimes, just waking him up in the morning was a problem.

Rodman was also prone to question the will to win of his teammates-of-the-moment. With the Spurs (1993-95), he felt that chief among others David Robinson wasn't prepared to go the extra mile required to win championships, and this is what ultimately shortened - by mutual consent - his stay in San Antonio. When Rodman truly respected his teammates - as he did in Detroit and Chicago - he was always a well-liked and positive presence in the locker room.

Overall, virtually all of Rodman's difficulties resulted from his inclination to fervidly pursue the satisfaction of every impulse that came over him. When he was with the Bulls, the team tried to find a way for Rodman to short-circuit his impulse to rail at any referee who made what he believed to be an unjust call. So they had him place a thick rubber band tightly around his left wrist with orders to sharply snap the band whenever he felt like yapping at a ref. The idea being that the flash of pain would derail his latest impulse. The tactic worked for a while, then to the staff's amazement Rodman took to continually snapping the rubber band even when he had no immediate beef with the refs.

What was that all about?

"It felt good," said Rodman.

In other words, Rodman's personality contained elements of childish self-indulgence, shameless exhibitionism (his wedding dress!), a touch of masochism, along with a high degree of natural intelligence.

Artest is another story altogether. He's more of a bully than was Rodman and always insists on being the center of attention - as when he announced that one of his priorities with the Rockets would be to teach Yao Ming what America was really all about. Which is also the basic reason why Artest wants an inordinate number of touches on offense, takes so many ill-advised shots, and tries to intimidate the players he's guarding with often spurious boasts.

Artest, then, is much more of an egomaniac than Rodman.

A member of the coaching staff on one of the teams Artest played for also says that there are only two guys who could possibly control Ron-Ron - Pat Riley and Phil Jackson.

"Forget about Artest taking orders from a coach who never played in the league," says this particular source. "Not even Gregg Popovich could possibly get him to behave. And forget about Artest respecting a coach who had played in the NBA but who hadn't won a championship as a player. That's why Rick Adelman couldn't really connect with Artest. So I think that Phil has the best chance of any other active coach to keep Artest relatively sane."

Moreover, after playing for four teams during his nine-year NBA career without advancing into a championship series, Artest is by all reports intent on winning a ring. And it's certainly reasonable to believe that even Ron-Ron understands that Kobe Bryant is necessarily the Lakers' most dominant player and personality.

But being rational has never been a part of Artest's game plan.

Will he, then, buy into the ball-sharing, shot-sacrificing attitude that characterizes the triangle offense? He can if Jackson makes one critical adjustment: Posting up Artest as much as possible. That's because Artest is a monster in the low post, where he can score points by the dozen, draw fouls, make alert passes, and bask in the spotlight. In fact, Artest is unquestionably the most unstoppable low-post force on his new team. Better in the pivot than Lamar Odom, Pau Gasol, and even Kobe.

Still, Artest has often routinely exhibited such bizarre behavior as to leave onlookers speechless. Smashing expensive TV cameras. Diving into the stands to assault a fan.

And so on and on.

Here's the latest example:

Last spring, the Rockets were preparing to face the Lakers in the seventh and deciding game of the Western Conference semifinals. The most critical game of Houston's season.

Traditionally, players are required to show up in the locker room 90 minutes before game time or else face a fine, a suspension, or both. Since the Rockets were away from home, bus transportation was provided from the hotel to the Staples Arena.

The first bus was timed to arrive at Staples two hours before tip-off. Expected on board were the rookies, who always had to come early to get taped; any veterans who wanted to get some extra shooting practice; the public relations staff; as well as the assistant coach who was responsible for transcribing the scouting report on the grease board mounted in the locker room.

The next departure from the hotel was designed to get the rest of the players and the rest of the coaching staff to the arena before the 90-minute cutoff. Since the coaching staff always commences their pre-game scouting report 45 minutes before the game begins, the players on this bus would have 45 minutes to dress, get taped, and do some extra shooting on their own.

The third bus contained team officials, guests, wives, girlfriends and assorted hangers-on, and would arrive at Staples 30 minutes before tip-off. Time to grab something to eat in the media room and get comfortably settled in their assigned seats.

Artest missed the first bus, and missed the second bus. He did board the third bus, but was dressed only in his underwear!!!

There's only one thing left to say: Good luck, Phil. You'll need it.
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That's because Artest is a monster in the low post, where he can score points by the dozen, draw fouls, make alert passes, and bask in the spotlight. In fact, Artest is unquestionably the most unstoppable low-post force on his new team. Better in the pivot than Lamar Odom, Pau Gasol, and even Kobe.
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Is this guy serious
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Eddie Jones used to be my favorite Laker before Kobe too, I was heated when he got traded. Its crazy that we had a more talented team the year before we wonthe first championship with Phil. I always used to think what if we would've kept that team together with Phill as the coach.
 
Originally Posted by kb8 3qwick

Eddie Jones used to be my favorite Laker before Kobe too, I was heated when he got traded. Its crazy that we had a more talented team the year before we won the first championship with Phil. I always used to think what if we would've kept that team together with Phill as the coach.
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sweet butter eddie was my favorite Laker all day...i was so heated when freakin' kobe shot those airballs against utah
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...yehh i do agree we had a deeper team in 98 than the 2000 3peat teams but they didnt have a stable coach like phil...that was just too much for delharris to handle...but imagine trading kobe instead of eddie?
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For the record, my last name is not Rosen.

Just putting that out there.....

Nick was the Gosh damn man.
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That kid had NO fear and had swag formiles. Dude would pull up with them 32 footers, all net it, turn slowly and throw those rocky hands quietly to himself.
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Guy was straight filthy. I remember when Doc Rivers knocked over Eddie in a game and they both went to the floor, Nick ran over with the ball to see if Eddiewas cool, he had his hand down by his side and Doc reached up to get Nick's hand and pull himself up, Nick saw Doc reach for his hand and pulled it up soquick.
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Doc got pissed and that started a little scuffle. That was Nick man, hedidn't give a @#$% if you were a vet, a rook, a good guy or bad guy, he did what he wanted, the way he wanted too. After we lost Magic and thatchampionship pedigree, we needed a guy to come in and put away the Mr Nice Guy stuff we had goin on, and play some streetball out there. Enter Nick the Quick.
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ahhhh........the Eddie and Nick days

who remembers NVE getting 35 points in his first career game against the defending conf. champ Suns at the Forum? (and AC Green fighting James Worthy)

who remember No Sweat Eddie dunking on Shawn Bradley TWICE in one game IN Philly (his hometown)

those were the damn days!!!!!

Eddie and Nick were a great young backcourt
 
Originally Posted by kb8 3qwick

Wasn't Nick also the first dude who instead of raising the roof, he used to push down on the roof
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he'd raise the roof at home and push down the roof on an away game...if i remember correctly
 
I still have my respect for Kobe even when he air balled those shots... takes a lot of guts, even for a kid.


PS: yo ska.. or any mods... how do you get the avy to show? it doesn't even bother showing or anything. how do you get it to show up?
 
^ For some reason, you have your avatar ability turned off. It wasn't me that did it, so I'm not going to undo it. I suggest you e-mail the staff([email protected]) to see if why you avatar was disabled.
 
I used to like Eddie over Kobe back in the days too
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He was a monster jumping off one foot
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doing layups from the 3pt line and $!+*
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His biggest problem is that he had weak handles so in that sense he is similar to Ariza. I think Eddie was a better athlete than Ariza though.
 
I remember Nick smacking Ronnie Garretson the ref around
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Dude got like a 7 game suspension for throwing punches and hitting a ref
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Today it would be like half a season....
 
This is probably the only safe place to put this, but watchin the 81 last night, he damn near could have hit 90.
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He had the and one called a charge. That coulda been 3.
He missed 2 free throws, there's 2.
That breakaway where he was all alone but LO over threw him, coulda been 2

That's 88 points if those "easy's" were taken care of. And if he got that close, why not let him go for the extra bucket and reach 90?

81 is sick enough, 88-90 would have been straight stupid.
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Add in the fact that he sat for 6 minutes in the second quarter........90 with an extra 6 minutes to play?
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[h2]NBA Offseason Buzz: L.A. Lakers[/h2] [h3]Kobe's production should slip next season, but Farmar could pick up slack[/h3]

Comment Email Print
By John Hollinger & Ric Bucher
ESPN Insider



Want to know who's heating up for a big year on the hardwood? Insider is tapping into John Hollinger's projected Player Efficiency Ratings to see who's trending up and downacross the NBA. Ric Bucher rounds out the report by examining a pivotal player you'll want to watch as the season approaches. The series begins with thechamps, the Los Angeles Lakers.

So the Lakers avenged their 2008 Finals faceplant against the Celtics, Kobe got his ring sans Shaq and Phil Jackson broke his tie for championships with RedAuerbach -- so what's their motivation this time around?

"Proving that Ron Artest isn't title-prohibiting crazy" probablywon't be on the media-guide cover, but it's hard to find a more compelling answer at the moment. It's easy to forget now, but the one questionlooming over the Lakers all last season was whether they had the necessary killer instinct and mental toughness to win a championship. Now the question is, didthey forge some permanent inner steel overcoming Houston, Denver and, finally, Orlando, or will the removal of so many monkeys from so many backs cause them tolose that grit?

Oh, and what happens if Kobe's production begins to decline from his super season?

To see which player's taking off, who's crashing to earth and which name you'll need to know for the 2009-10 season, you must be an ESPNInsider.

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[h3]Trending Up: Jordan Farmar[/h3]
Last season: 9.93 PER
2009-10 projection: 12.68 PER

Farmar finished 59th in Pure Point Rating, which was an inexcusable performance for a small, quick guard on a team with this many weapons around him. Evenas a scoring guard he was lacking. He only made only 39.1 percent from the floor, and his foul shooting (58.4 percent) has become absolutely indefensible.Overall he ranked 62nd out of the league's 69 point guards in True Shooting Percentage and finished with a PER in singledigits. For a healthy 22-year old who posted a 15.29 PER a year earlier, it was an epic crash -- narrowly missing out on the league's largest decline (seechart).

[h4]Biggest PER drop, 2008-09[/h4]
Jordan Farmar took a big step back last season, particularly considering his age relative to the other names on this list. (Min. 500 minutes in both seasons)
Baron DavisLAC19.8514.54-5.41
Jordan FarmarLAL15.299.93-5.36
Allen IversonDEN/DET21.0615.89-5.17
Earl WatsonOKC14.579.55-5.02
Chauncey BillupsDET/DEN23.4818.85-4.63
[th=""]Player[/th] [th=""]Team[/th] [th=""]2007-08 PER[/th] [th=""]2008-09 PER[/th] [th=""]Difference[/th]
On paper, Farmar enters the season as a quasi-backup who will split minutes with Shannon Brown behind Derek Fisher. In reality, much depends on which Farmar shows up. The guy from 2008-09 isunlikely to play much, but he has the talent to perform much, much better, and showed it in the 2007-08 campaign. If he plays like that again, he'll blowpast Brown and Fisher into the starting job by midseason, because he's clearly the most gifted of the three. He just hasn't determined how to translatehis gifts into consistent offensive success yet. -- Hollinger
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[h3]Trending Down: Kobe Bryant[/h3]
Last season: 24.46 PER
2009-10 projection: 22.65 PER

First, the bad news: A declining free-throw rate is a fairly ominous canary in the coal mine, and Bryant is 31 with a lot of mileage on his legs. For thatreason, I don't think he'll match last year's numbers.
Having said that, I wouldn't expect a precipitous decline either. Bryant keepshimself in fantastic shape, has had few knee problems, and has already shown he has the smarts to adjust his game to whatever new realities his body deals him.Additionally, the Lakers should be able to mange his minutes very carefully and reduce the regular-season wear-and-tear. That, in fact, may be a bigger drainon his numbers than age -- if he only plays, say, 34 minutes a game, his averages will drop no matter how well he performs. -- Hollinger
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[h3]Bucher's Name to Know: Andrew Bynum[/h3]
You were expecting Artest, right? Well, it's already out there that RonRon was nuttier in Houston last year than anyone realized and no longer has theathleticism to guard quick SFs the way the departed Trevor Ariza did. Artest can besafely quarantined, though, if Bynum is once more the double-double machine he was right before he tore the medial collateral ligament in his rightknee. In case anyone forgot, he was on a streak of five straight double-doubles for a total of 16 double-doubles in the first 48 games.

He never came close to that form upon his return, failing to get double-digit rebounds in a single playoff game. Concerns about his commitment to gettingfit arose during his absence and he still looked to be favoring his right leg. Then issues bubbled over Bynum's focus; rather than blocking shots andcleaning the glass, he seemed preoccupied with scoring, a far less vital ingredient. Nine times he scored in double figures but not once did he get more thannine rebounds. The blocked-shot production was sliced in half.

So if you want to be entertained -- or appalled -- follow Artest's antics. If you want to know whether the Lakers can repeat or not, keep your eye onBynum. -- Bucher

if posted my bad..
 
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