2011 NBA MVP Thread

[mjvskb24vs23]

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Originally Posted by SLP Product

Originally Posted by AntBanks81


IMO, you don't need to win the conference player of the week/month every week/month to be the most valuable player. Rose is MVP because he has carried a team expected to be top four in the east to the very top while being without two starters for most of the season. He is MVP because he has created for his teammates and gotten the most out of them. He is MVP because he gets the job done in the clutch for his team.

So the player who deserves MVP is the one with the best narrative? Because that second assertion is partly true, but it really shouldn't matter much because preseason expectations should have no bearing on the criterion for an individual achievement award.

Fact is Chicago wins because of their top ranked defense and rebounding, two categories where Rose doesn't deserve much credit relative to his team. Where Rose does deserve credit is regarding their mediocre offense, where his volume shooting and below average assist to turnover rate has Chicago in a three-way tie for 12th best offense. Oh, and stop saying he's done it without Boozer or Noah for most of the season, they've both played in more than half of Chicago's games. Besides, Chicago is one of the deepest teams in the league, they have 7 quality rotation players.

Preach!!

 

[mjvskb24vs23]

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Originally Posted by SLP Product

Originally Posted by AntBanks81


IMO, you don't need to win the conference player of the week/month every week/month to be the most valuable player. Rose is MVP because he has carried a team expected to be top four in the east to the very top while being without two starters for most of the season. He is MVP because he has created for his teammates and gotten the most out of them. He is MVP because he gets the job done in the clutch for his team.

So the player who deserves MVP is the one with the best narrative? Because that second assertion is partly true, but it really shouldn't matter much because preseason expectations should have no bearing on the criterion for an individual achievement award.

Fact is Chicago wins because of their top ranked defense and rebounding, two categories where Rose doesn't deserve much credit relative to his team. Where Rose does deserve credit is regarding their mediocre offense, where his volume shooting and below average assist to turnover rate has Chicago in a three-way tie for 12th best offense. Oh, and stop saying he's done it without Boozer or Noah for most of the season, they've both played in more than half of Chicago's games. Besides, Chicago is one of the deepest teams in the league, they have 7 quality rotation players.

Preach!!

 

[duba169]

my point is that this is more about his agenda than Rose not deserving the MVP.

I think Rose wins and yes I will admit a huge part of it seems to be the narrative. However I think The team would be trash without Rose. They wouldn't score for extremely long stretches.

Only other person I would say is deserving this year is Dwight.

 

[duba169]

my point is that this is more about his agenda than Rose not deserving the MVP.

I think Rose wins and yes I will admit a huge part of it seems to be the narrative. However I think The team would be trash without Rose. They wouldn't score for extremely long stretches.

Only other person I would say is deserving this year is Dwight.

 

[duba169]

That's a disturbing gif

 

[duba169]

That's a disturbing gif

 

[kingjames23]

Originally Posted by DubA169


I think The team would be trash without Rose. They wouldn't score for extremely long stretches.

That's not an argument for the MVP, that is a hypothetical. Talk to me about what actually has happened.

And if we're looking at teams without their star Dwight is the MVP without a doubt. The Magic wouldn't board, defend or score in the paint without him. Their entire offensive and defensive strategy is based on Dwight dominating the paint.

 

[kingjames23]

Originally Posted by DubA169


I think The team would be trash without Rose. They wouldn't score for extremely long stretches.

That's not an argument for the MVP, that is a hypothetical. Talk to me about what actually has happened.

And if we're looking at teams without their star Dwight is the MVP without a doubt. The Magic wouldn't board, defend or score in the paint without him. Their entire offensive and defensive strategy is based on Dwight dominating the paint.

 

[ubuibeme]

Originally Posted by DubA169

That's a disturbing gif

 

[ubuibeme]

Originally Posted by DubA169

That's a disturbing gif

 

[king x riece]

Westbrook just showed out in the 4th

But yea this should be Howard's award.

 

[king x riece]

Westbrook just showed out in the 4th

But yea this should be Howard's award.

 

[JD617]

If OKC stay close down the stretch tonight with POR, who getting the ball in the end?

Good call.

 

[JD617]

If OKC stay close down the stretch tonight with POR, who getting the ball in the end?

Good call.

 

[illmatic34]

Originally Posted by dland24

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Dan LeBetard has pretty perfectly summed up the case against Rose.

http://www.miamiherald.co...-bulls-derrick-rose.html


Ah well, logic looses this battle, enjoy the MVP.

Couldnt agree more (with the article and OKB).  Normal stats, advanced stats and logic are thrown out the door because the Bulls are doing better than they were projected to be doing.  Oh well.  Wouldnt be the first time a point guard took home the MVP that didnt deserve it. 

Wouldn't that add to his case for MVP though? The Bulls are overachieving and Rose is one of the reasons for it. Simply put, if Rose did not elevate his play this season we would not be in the position we are in now. 
While Rose loses the statistics department (mainly his efficiency), I don't think a lot of people realize the type of season he is having. Assuming he finishes the season off averaging 25/8/4, he will have accomplished something only done 16 times before. This feat has been shared between six players - Oscar Robertson, Michael Jordan, Lebron James, Wilt Chamberlain, Gary Payton, and Jerry West. 

http://www.basketball-reference.com...comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=pts_per_g

Also notice how all of those players have played more minutes than Rose has. The lowest being Jerry West, who played 38.6 mpg in contrast to Derrick playing 37.5 mpg. He is also the only player who ranks in the top 10 in PPG and APG.

Rose has led the team for more than half of the season while missing Boozer and/or Noah. You can credit that all to the defense if you want, but if you think CJ Watson and John Lucas can lead this same team to the amount of success it's had you're delusional. Are there any players on the Magic/Heat who's missed as much as Boozer and Noah and has the same impact as them? No.

 

[illmatic34]

Originally Posted by dland24

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Dan LeBetard has pretty perfectly summed up the case against Rose.

http://www.miamiherald.co...-bulls-derrick-rose.html


Ah well, logic looses this battle, enjoy the MVP.

Couldnt agree more (with the article and OKB).  Normal stats, advanced stats and logic are thrown out the door because the Bulls are doing better than they were projected to be doing.  Oh well.  Wouldnt be the first time a point guard took home the MVP that didnt deserve it. 

Wouldn't that add to his case for MVP though? The Bulls are overachieving and Rose is one of the reasons for it. Simply put, if Rose did not elevate his play this season we would not be in the position we are in now. 
While Rose loses the statistics department (mainly his efficiency), I don't think a lot of people realize the type of season he is having. Assuming he finishes the season off averaging 25/8/4, he will have accomplished something only done 16 times before. This feat has been shared between six players - Oscar Robertson, Michael Jordan, Lebron James, Wilt Chamberlain, Gary Payton, and Jerry West. 

http://www.basketball-reference.com...comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=pts_per_g

Also notice how all of those players have played more minutes than Rose has. The lowest being Jerry West, who played 38.6 mpg in contrast to Derrick playing 37.5 mpg. He is also the only player who ranks in the top 10 in PPG and APG.

Rose has led the team for more than half of the season while missing Boozer and/or Noah. You can credit that all to the defense if you want, but if you think CJ Watson and John Lucas can lead this same team to the amount of success it's had you're delusional. Are there any players on the Magic/Heat who's missed as much as Boozer and Noah and has the same impact as them? No.

 

[IATT]

Originally Posted by illfrozn

Originally Posted by dland24

Originally Posted by illfrozn

He made a huge mistake just a few paragraphs in: "They are essentially the same player, in other words."

Wow...no, they are not. Stats wise, they may be close, but please believe it, they are not the same player. And his silliness with the whole "Hey-I-Didn’t-Expect-The-Bulls-To-Be-Good", can also go for "I didn't think he'd have this type of year" for Westbrook.

Stats are clearly important, but about other basketball variables?

You are 100% correct.  They arent the same player.  Russell Westbrook plays great defense.  Rose plays little.

I can play that game too. Who gets the ball to win the game for OKC? Who gets the ball to win the game for Chi?

not that i dont think rose is the MVP.. but westbrook has closed out his fair share of games for us (including tonight, where he hit the 3 that shut down portland)

 

[antbanks81]

Originally Posted by Mjvskb24vs23

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Originally Posted by SLP Product

So the player who deserves MVP is the one with the best narrative? Because that second assertion is partly true, but it really shouldn't matter much because preseason expectations should have no bearing on the criterion for an individual achievement award.

Fact is Chicago wins because of their top ranked defense and rebounding, two categories where Rose doesn't deserve much credit relative to his team. Where Rose does deserve credit is regarding their mediocre offense, where his volume shooting and below average assist to turnover rate has Chicago in a three-way tie for 12th best offense. Oh, and stop saying he's done it without Boozer or Noah for most of the season, they've both played in more than half of Chicago's games. Besides, Chicago is one of the deepest teams in the league, they have 7 quality rotation players.

Preach!!

LMAO

Noah at 41 games and Boozer with 49....out of 72

Please tell me which of the other MVP candidates would have their teams on the same pace having two of their starters miss that many games?????

I'll help you ...NONE...we were missing our second leading scorer and our leading rebounder/energy/hypeman and despite all that stayed the course and rose to the top (pun intended)

 

[antbanks81]

Originally Posted by Mjvskb24vs23

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Originally Posted by SLP Product

So the player who deserves MVP is the one with the best narrative? Because that second assertion is partly true, but it really shouldn't matter much because preseason expectations should have no bearing on the criterion for an individual achievement award.

Fact is Chicago wins because of their top ranked defense and rebounding, two categories where Rose doesn't deserve much credit relative to his team. Where Rose does deserve credit is regarding their mediocre offense, where his volume shooting and below average assist to turnover rate has Chicago in a three-way tie for 12th best offense. Oh, and stop saying he's done it without Boozer or Noah for most of the season, they've both played in more than half of Chicago's games. Besides, Chicago is one of the deepest teams in the league, they have 7 quality rotation players.

Preach!!

LMAO

Noah at 41 games and Boozer with 49....out of 72

Please tell me which of the other MVP candidates would have their teams on the same pace having two of their starters miss that many games?????

I'll help you ...NONE...we were missing our second leading scorer and our leading rebounder/energy/hypeman and despite all that stayed the course and rose to the top (pun intended)

 

[IATT]

Originally Posted by illfrozn

Originally Posted by dland24

Originally Posted by illfrozn

He made a huge mistake just a few paragraphs in: "They are essentially the same player, in other words."

Wow...no, they are not. Stats wise, they may be close, but please believe it, they are not the same player. And his silliness with the whole "Hey-I-Didn’t-Expect-The-Bulls-To-Be-Good", can also go for "I didn't think he'd have this type of year" for Westbrook.

Stats are clearly important, but about other basketball variables?

You are 100% correct.  They arent the same player.  Russell Westbrook plays great defense.  Rose plays little.

I can play that game too. Who gets the ball to win the game for OKC? Who gets the ball to win the game for Chi?

not that i dont think rose is the MVP.. but westbrook has closed out his fair share of games for us (including tonight, where he hit the 3 that shut down portland)

 

[IATT]

^ not that i think westbrook is the MVP.. but check the thunder's record when durant was out

 

[IATT]

^ not that i think westbrook is the MVP.. but check the thunder's record when durant was out

 

[abovelegit1]

They stayed the course because they are easily one of the deepest teams in the league, especially in terms of defensive personnel. Obviously Derrick had a lot to do with it, but that doesn't mean he should be MVP. Also, if that's the basis of your case for his MVP lead candidacy, it's not much of a case at all.

 

[abovelegit1]

They stayed the course because they are easily one of the deepest teams in the league, especially in terms of defensive personnel. Obviously Derrick had a lot to do with it, but that doesn't mean he should be MVP. Also, if that's the basis of your case for his MVP lead candidacy, it's not much of a case at all.

 

[IATT]

where would the hornets have been without the 1 legged chris paul?