2011 NBA MVP Thread

[big j 33]

Originally Posted by AntBanks81

As I said earlier, and no one has responded to it, take all 16 playoff teams and take off two starters for 30 games each and realistically tell me if their primary player would have them in the same position as they are in now (f the expectations)
  

If Jameer and J-Rich/Vince went down, Dwight Howard would still put the Magic in the top 4 in the East

For the record I think Rose wins the MVP and has a good case for it. I don't subscribe to the logic that the MVP has to come from a top 3 team in the NBA based on record, I think you can have a legitimate MVP candidate and have his team be in 4th in the conference (Dwight Howard for example). However that isn't the way the media votes, and they place a heavy emphasis on team record and because of that, plus their overall defensive improvement which I credit your coach for, he wins this season.

 

[big j 33]

Originally Posted by AntBanks81

As I said earlier, and no one has responded to it, take all 16 playoff teams and take off two starters for 30 games each and realistically tell me if their primary player would have them in the same position as they are in now (f the expectations)
  

If Jameer and J-Rich/Vince went down, Dwight Howard would still put the Magic in the top 4 in the East

For the record I think Rose wins the MVP and has a good case for it. I don't subscribe to the logic that the MVP has to come from a top 3 team in the NBA based on record, I think you can have a legitimate MVP candidate and have his team be in 4th in the conference (Dwight Howard for example). However that isn't the way the media votes, and they place a heavy emphasis on team record and because of that, plus their overall defensive improvement which I credit your coach for, he wins this season.

 

[kingjames23]

Originally Posted by AntBanks81

As I said earlier, and no one has responded to it, take all 16 playoff teams and take off two starters for 30 games each and realistically tell me if their primary player would have them in the same position as they are in now (f the expectations)
  

You can answer that question anyway you want. There is nothing that proves someones position right or wrong that is why it's a stupid argument.

I could answer that question with Kobe, Dwight, Bron, Wade, Durant and there is nothing you can say to prove me wrong. Just like there is nothing to prove you wrong. Which is why an argument based on what ifs is stupid. There is no way to prove them right or wrong.

If we're playing the what if game. Dwight is the MVP. Nobody does more for their team than Dwight. Without him their offensive and defensive strategies wouldn't work. How would that team score and defend on the block? Grab boards? Get open looks for 3? Everything revolves around Dwight dominating the paint.

 

[kingjames23]

Originally Posted by AntBanks81

As I said earlier, and no one has responded to it, take all 16 playoff teams and take off two starters for 30 games each and realistically tell me if their primary player would have them in the same position as they are in now (f the expectations)
  

You can answer that question anyway you want. There is nothing that proves someones position right or wrong that is why it's a stupid argument.

I could answer that question with Kobe, Dwight, Bron, Wade, Durant and there is nothing you can say to prove me wrong. Just like there is nothing to prove you wrong. Which is why an argument based on what ifs is stupid. There is no way to prove them right or wrong.

If we're playing the what if game. Dwight is the MVP. Nobody does more for their team than Dwight. Without him their offensive and defensive strategies wouldn't work. How would that team score and defend on the block? Grab boards? Get open looks for 3? Everything revolves around Dwight dominating the paint.

 

[antbanks81]

I dunno about that one BigJ..they might swap with ATL...you talking about their 2nd and 3rd scorers...with the way Gil been playing, I don't know that they keep that current lead over ATL...I would argue it with you but wouldn't put any money on it, it's that close...probably dependent on the time of the injuries...we were fortunate with the timing of ours to Noah and Booz..that's tricky because howard is their top scorer and rebounder and shotblocker. Without their other two scorers, the double teams would be that more intense.

I could see them still being #four because they wouldn't take division from MIA and CHI and BOS are set

 

[antbanks81]

I dunno about that one BigJ..they might swap with ATL...you talking about their 2nd and 3rd scorers...with the way Gil been playing, I don't know that they keep that current lead over ATL...I would argue it with you but wouldn't put any money on it, it's that close...probably dependent on the time of the injuries...we were fortunate with the timing of ours to Noah and Booz..that's tricky because howard is their top scorer and rebounder and shotblocker. Without their other two scorers, the double teams would be that more intense.

I could see them still being #four because they wouldn't take division from MIA and CHI and BOS are set

 

[bangdak]

As much as i dont think Rose deserves MVP, you cant possibly say that you'd rather give the ball to Keith Bogans (or Kurt Thomas for that matter) and expects him to score over Rose.

 

[bangdak]

As much as i dont think Rose deserves MVP, you cant possibly say that you'd rather give the ball to Keith Bogans (or Kurt Thomas for that matter) and expects him to score over Rose.

 

[antbanks81]

Originally Posted by KingJames23

Originally Posted by AntBanks81

As I said earlier, and no one has responded to it, take all 16 playoff teams and take off two starters for 30 games each and realistically tell me if their primary player would have them in the same position as they are in now (f the expectations)
  

You can answer that question anyway you want. There is nothing that proves someones position right or wrong that is why it's a stupid argument.

I could answer that question with Kobe, Dwight, Bron, Wade, Durant and there is nothing you can say to prove me wrong. Just like there is nothing to prove you wrong. Which is why an argument based on what ifs is stupid. There is no way to prove them right or wrong.

If we're playing the what if game. Dwight is the MVP. Nobody does more for their team than Dwight. Without him their offensive and defensive strategies wouldn't work. How would that team score and defend on the block? Grab boards?
Yes, if "if was a fifth, we'd all be drunk"

I agree that we would be a better team than the Magic if you took Rose and Dwight away. I have said that Dwight is the #2 in my book.

We could talk out the scenarios til we were all blue in the face...but honestly, can you see any of the other candidates taking their teams to the top with those hurdles?

In the end, I would rather Rose lift the Bill Russell trophy rather than the season MVP, which he is deserving of.

  

 

[antbanks81]

Originally Posted by KingJames23

Originally Posted by AntBanks81

As I said earlier, and no one has responded to it, take all 16 playoff teams and take off two starters for 30 games each and realistically tell me if their primary player would have them in the same position as they are in now (f the expectations)
  

You can answer that question anyway you want. There is nothing that proves someones position right or wrong that is why it's a stupid argument.

I could answer that question with Kobe, Dwight, Bron, Wade, Durant and there is nothing you can say to prove me wrong. Just like there is nothing to prove you wrong. Which is why an argument based on what ifs is stupid. There is no way to prove them right or wrong.

If we're playing the what if game. Dwight is the MVP. Nobody does more for their team than Dwight. Without him their offensive and defensive strategies wouldn't work. How would that team score and defend on the block? Grab boards?
Yes, if "if was a fifth, we'd all be drunk"

I agree that we would be a better team than the Magic if you took Rose and Dwight away. I have said that Dwight is the #2 in my book.

We could talk out the scenarios til we were all blue in the face...but honestly, can you see any of the other candidates taking their teams to the top with those hurdles?

In the end, I would rather Rose lift the Bill Russell trophy rather than the season MVP, which he is deserving of.

  

 

[chicagokid23]

Originally Posted by Big J 33

If Jameer and J-Rich/Vince went down, Dwight Howard would still put the Magic in the top 4 in the East

For the record I think Rose wins the MVP and has a good case for it. I don't subscribe to the logic that the MVP has to come from a top 3 team in the NBA based on record, I think you can have a legitimate MVP candidate and have his team be in 4th in the conference (Dwight Howard for example). 

this as a Bulls fan and watching Bulls game Rose is the heart and soul of that team, he wont let us lose 
the only other cat in the L that even has a MVP case is Dwight Howard he dosnt get the reconition 

because hes been to the finals hes succeeded he is a star, Rose and his team this season has taken the leap  

the media is always looking for something new something exciting Rose coming out plus the bulls doing great captivates audiences more than 

Dwight holding down the 4 seed with new teammates IMO its Rose slightly over Howard noone else should really be in the discussion 

 

[big j 33]

For argument's sake, take the top scorers besides Dwight, Vince and Jason Richardson (obviously they didn't play together but they were both the 2nd leading scorer when they were/are on the team). Both average near 14-15 points per game. In their absence I'm confident that JJ could step up and play starting 2 and average the same points. He's at 10 points on 25 minutes/game, and 14 pts/36 minutes.

Additionally, the next leading scorers were Jameer and Rashard at around 12 points per game. If Jameer went down, Gilbert could step up and match his points and assists numbers or at least match his points, while Brandon Bass and Ryan Anderson could and have covered Rashard's absence.

So in the event that the Magic lost it's 2nd and 3rd leading scorers, their bench players could step up and fill the voids, all the while Dwight keeping up his play and the Magic's record.

I agree it's close, and it's very hard to play the hypothetical game... it depends on timing of the injuries, the big trades, etc. but in response to your question I think Dwight would keep his team the closest to their current spot.

 

[chicagokid23]

Originally Posted by Big J 33

If Jameer and J-Rich/Vince went down, Dwight Howard would still put the Magic in the top 4 in the East

For the record I think Rose wins the MVP and has a good case for it. I don't subscribe to the logic that the MVP has to come from a top 3 team in the NBA based on record, I think you can have a legitimate MVP candidate and have his team be in 4th in the conference (Dwight Howard for example). 

this as a Bulls fan and watching Bulls game Rose is the heart and soul of that team, he wont let us lose 
the only other cat in the L that even has a MVP case is Dwight Howard he dosnt get the reconition 

because hes been to the finals hes succeeded he is a star, Rose and his team this season has taken the leap  

the media is always looking for something new something exciting Rose coming out plus the bulls doing great captivates audiences more than 

Dwight holding down the 4 seed with new teammates IMO its Rose slightly over Howard noone else should really be in the discussion 

 

[big j 33]

For argument's sake, take the top scorers besides Dwight, Vince and Jason Richardson (obviously they didn't play together but they were both the 2nd leading scorer when they were/are on the team). Both average near 14-15 points per game. In their absence I'm confident that JJ could step up and play starting 2 and average the same points. He's at 10 points on 25 minutes/game, and 14 pts/36 minutes.

Additionally, the next leading scorers were Jameer and Rashard at around 12 points per game. If Jameer went down, Gilbert could step up and match his points and assists numbers or at least match his points, while Brandon Bass and Ryan Anderson could and have covered Rashard's absence.

So in the event that the Magic lost it's 2nd and 3rd leading scorers, their bench players could step up and fill the voids, all the while Dwight keeping up his play and the Magic's record.

I agree it's close, and it's very hard to play the hypothetical game... it depends on timing of the injuries, the big trades, etc. but in response to your question I think Dwight would keep his team the closest to their current spot.

 

[IATT]

Originally Posted by SCuse7

Originally Posted by itsaboutthattime

where would the hornets have been without the 1 legged chris paul?

They would be pretty !@%#*+, but no way Chicago would be in the top 4 in the east if they didn't have Rose.
That > what CP is doing

check what i wrote before.. i don't think CP deserves the award (or even that he deserves it over rose)

just pointing/pointed out that i think CP deserves to get some love (considering his name isn't being mentioned at all AND he's doing it on 1 leg)

 

[IATT]

Originally Posted by SCuse7

Originally Posted by itsaboutthattime

where would the hornets have been without the 1 legged chris paul?

They would be pretty !@%#*+, but no way Chicago would be in the top 4 in the east if they didn't have Rose.
That > what CP is doing

check what i wrote before.. i don't think CP deserves the award (or even that he deserves it over rose)

just pointing/pointed out that i think CP deserves to get some love (considering his name isn't being mentioned at all AND he's doing it on 1 leg)

 

[chicagokid23]

Originally Posted by itsaboutthattime

check what i wrote before.. i don't think CP deserves the award (or even that he deserves it over rose)

just pointing/pointed out that i think CP deserves to get some love (considering his name isn't being mentioned at all AND he's doing it on 1 leg)



CP# always has love dudes is the best pure point guard in the game when healthy

 

[chicagokid23]

Originally Posted by itsaboutthattime

check what i wrote before.. i don't think CP deserves the award (or even that he deserves it over rose)

just pointing/pointed out that i think CP deserves to get some love (considering his name isn't being mentioned at all AND he's doing it on 1 leg)



CP# always has love dudes is the best pure point guard in the game when healthy

 

[kingjames23]

Originally Posted by AntBanks81

I agree that we would be a better team than the Magic if you took Rose and Dwight away. I have said that Dwight is the #2 in my book.

You can scratch that from your argument for Rose over Dwight.

.but honestly, can you see any of the other candidates taking their teams to the top with those hurdles?





I don't know and neither do you. That's my whole point. It's an argument over something that nobody can prove or disprove. Anyone can justify their position behind that argument. Which is why it's dumb. It pretty much gets canceled out because both sides can make that argument with equal validity.

I can say, could anyone else have dealt with the complete roster transformation that Dwight had to deal with and have their team in the same spot? I can argue that Dwight's roster transformation was worse than the Bulls injuries. But I'm not going to because I don't think it's a factor in the MVP discussion.

If you took Rose of the Bulls
Who else could have dealt with those injuries and carried their team

What else do you have

 

[antbanks81]

Originally Posted by Big J 33

For argument's sake, take the top scorers besides Dwight, Vince and Jason Richardson (obviously they didn't play together but they were both the 2nd leading scorer when they were/are on the team). Both average near 14-15 points per game. In their absence I'm confident that JJ could step up and play starting 2 and average the same points. He's at 10 points on 25 minutes/game, and 14 pts/36 minutes.

Additionally, the next leading scorers were Jameer and Rashard at around 12 points per game. If Jameer went down, Gilbert could step up and match his points and assists numbers or at least match his points, while Brandon Bass and Ryan Anderson could and have covered Rashard's absence.

So in the event that the Magic lost it's 2nd and 3rd leading scorers, their bench players could step up and fill the voids, all the while Dwight keeping up his play and the Magic's record.

I agree it's close, and it's very hard to play the hypothetical game... it depends on timing of the injuries, the big trades, etc. but in response to your question I think Dwight would keep his team the closest to their current spot.

The thing about that scenarios is that you lose their production from the bench. And in having BB or RA replace Rashard, you lose the 3ball with Bass.

Dwight is definitely the #2 candidate in my eyes. He leads his team in every category except for assists. But as it was said earlier, the vote also depends on the W/L record.

Quick question (no sarcasm)? Do you all think player X could win MVP if he averaged 35/12r/8a/2s/2b but his team was a 7 or 8 seed? Clutch all season but unable to push his team to the top

  

 

[kingjames23]

Originally Posted by AntBanks81

I agree that we would be a better team than the Magic if you took Rose and Dwight away. I have said that Dwight is the #2 in my book.

You can scratch that from your argument for Rose over Dwight.

.but honestly, can you see any of the other candidates taking their teams to the top with those hurdles?





I don't know and neither do you. That's my whole point. It's an argument over something that nobody can prove or disprove. Anyone can justify their position behind that argument. Which is why it's dumb. It pretty much gets canceled out because both sides can make that argument with equal validity.

I can say, could anyone else have dealt with the complete roster transformation that Dwight had to deal with and have their team in the same spot? I can argue that Dwight's roster transformation was worse than the Bulls injuries. But I'm not going to because I don't think it's a factor in the MVP discussion.

If you took Rose of the Bulls
Who else could have dealt with those injuries and carried their team

What else do you have

 

[antbanks81]

Originally Posted by Big J 33

For argument's sake, take the top scorers besides Dwight, Vince and Jason Richardson (obviously they didn't play together but they were both the 2nd leading scorer when they were/are on the team). Both average near 14-15 points per game. In their absence I'm confident that JJ could step up and play starting 2 and average the same points. He's at 10 points on 25 minutes/game, and 14 pts/36 minutes.

Additionally, the next leading scorers were Jameer and Rashard at around 12 points per game. If Jameer went down, Gilbert could step up and match his points and assists numbers or at least match his points, while Brandon Bass and Ryan Anderson could and have covered Rashard's absence.

So in the event that the Magic lost it's 2nd and 3rd leading scorers, their bench players could step up and fill the voids, all the while Dwight keeping up his play and the Magic's record.

I agree it's close, and it's very hard to play the hypothetical game... it depends on timing of the injuries, the big trades, etc. but in response to your question I think Dwight would keep his team the closest to their current spot.

The thing about that scenarios is that you lose their production from the bench. And in having BB or RA replace Rashard, you lose the 3ball with Bass.

Dwight is definitely the #2 candidate in my eyes. He leads his team in every category except for assists. But as it was said earlier, the vote also depends on the W/L record.

Quick question (no sarcasm)? Do you all think player X could win MVP if he averaged 35/12r/8a/2s/2b but his team was a 7 or 8 seed? Clutch all season but unable to push his team to the top

  

 

[GQK44]

Rose. You take him away from the bulls and they're struggling. You take bron away from the heat wade would pick things up

 

[GQK44]

Rose. You take him away from the bulls and they're struggling. You take bron away from the heat wade would pick things up

 

[chicagokid23]

Originally Posted by AntBanks81

Quick question (no sarcasm)? Do you all think player X could win MVP if he averaged 35/12r/8a/2s/2b but his team was a 7 or 8 seed? Clutch all season but unable to push his team to the top

  
thats pretty much where Wade was at a couple of years back tho his stats were not that impressive Wade finished third i believe to Kobe and LeBron tho meant more to his team and put up better stats than those two hypothetically your player would likely finish top 3, win it if it was a down year MVP candidate wise