2011 NBA MVP Thread

Alot _'s sound silly in here. Rose is the MVP. I don't even know how you can go any other way.
 
Alot _'s sound silly in here. Rose is the MVP. I don't even know how you can go any other way.
 
Originally Posted by amel223

Happy that this thread came back to life.  It was pretty dead for a while there.  
laugh.gif


Haven't heard any new argument though.  Every detractor love to rehash arguments.

1-"Bulls offense sucks which Rose is a big part of and Bulls defense rocks which Rose affects the least"

2-"Bulls surge is due to Thibs defensive philosophy than Rose's improvement"

3-"If you wanna play hypotheticals, then Magic without Dwight would be absolute garbage"

4-"Westbrook has same numbers as Rose but is more efficient" 

1- Thibs has always said from day 1 that for his defense to work, everyone has to be on the same page.  If Rose wasn't holding up his share, with the minutes he plays the defense wouldn't be as good. 

I know some of y'all, professional writers included like to get cute and discredit Rose's improved defense by adding that the defense gets better when Rose sits out for Watson, but everyone conveniently ignores that when Rose is subbed out, it's not just Watson that subs in.  Bulls have what we call a 'bench mob.'  It's a highly defensive oriented bench that includes along with Watson -  Taj, Brewer, Asik - three of our better defenders.  Thibs likes to bring these three in along with Watson AND he keeps Luol Deng on the floor.  Of course the defense is going to improve especially when you consider Boozer - IMO the weakest defender out of every Bull not named Scalabrine and Butler is taken out when Rose is subbed out as well. 

2-This argument would be more credible, IMO if Rose's improvement was only marginal.  If Rose had stayed practically the same player he was last year and the Bulls STILL are at the top of the standings then of course we can point to Thib's coaching as the main factor in the Bulls improvement.  As it is I would go 50/50 on this.  The Bulls need Thibs just as much as they need Rose. 

The game that we just had would not have been possible without Thib's defense AND Rose's improvement.  We were down what, 13 or 14 in the 3rd - maybe 15.  Milwaukee was playing us tough the whole game.  We were just trying to chip in the lead and we did.  And it was made possible by the fact that our defense put a stranglehold on the Bucks and the fact that Rose carried the entire offense in the 2nd. 

The game was closer than the score would lead you to believe and best believe that the Bulls needed every basket and assist Derrick had.  He had 30 and 17.  Last year's Rose could not have had that game, or any other great game that the Bulls had needed from him to pull out wins this year. 

Bulls improvement has a lot to do with Thibs but we can't be giving all the credit to Thibs.  That's just unfair to Rose but y'all are doing it. 

3- Dwight is definitely number 2 and he would probably be number 1 maybe if the Magic was just ranked higher.  When you're ranked number 4 in the East you better have ungodly numbers to overcome the media's penchant for only picking MVP's from highly seeded teams.  Dwight is doing his thing and he definitely gets props from me.  The only problem I have is when people say Dwight is "doing more with less" - the Magic personnel are just fine.  They have Jameer, who was once an all star caliber pg.  They have Turk, one of the key pieces to a Magic team that went to the finals.  Jason Richardson is talented and so is Gil.  The "more with less" thing really irks me but besides that I actually like Dwight. 

4-Russy is more efficient than Rose because he doesn't have an entire defense gunning for him.  He has a 30 ppg machine deflecting much of the attention from him.  Russy is doing his thing and he'll probably still be doing his thing if he was the #1 option on another team BUT I will put ANYTHING on the line that his highly touted efficiency will go down in the process as well. 

Efficiency, I've noticed is a card I've seen played a lot in arguments on NT this season.  It has been used to credit and discredit players in different arguments and I'm kinda tired of it. 

Too much emphasis has been put on it to the point where it's getting overrated. 

Efficiency is nice but it's not the bottom line. 

You can have Dirk and Nash who I know are both ungodly players in terms of efficiency but I'll take Kobe, who's not as efficient (how I hate to bring him into an argument) over each of them every time. 


That's pretty much all I got to say on this.  I'm pretty sure I've done nothing to change your minds but hey, as long as my argument is heard.  Whether my argument made a dent or not doesn't matter - Rose is winning it regardless.
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Originally Posted by amel223

Happy that this thread came back to life.  It was pretty dead for a while there.  
laugh.gif


Haven't heard any new argument though.  Every detractor love to rehash arguments.

1-"Bulls offense sucks which Rose is a big part of and Bulls defense rocks which Rose affects the least"

2-"Bulls surge is due to Thibs defensive philosophy than Rose's improvement"

3-"If you wanna play hypotheticals, then Magic without Dwight would be absolute garbage"

4-"Westbrook has same numbers as Rose but is more efficient" 

1- Thibs has always said from day 1 that for his defense to work, everyone has to be on the same page.  If Rose wasn't holding up his share, with the minutes he plays the defense wouldn't be as good. 

I know some of y'all, professional writers included like to get cute and discredit Rose's improved defense by adding that the defense gets better when Rose sits out for Watson, but everyone conveniently ignores that when Rose is subbed out, it's not just Watson that subs in.  Bulls have what we call a 'bench mob.'  It's a highly defensive oriented bench that includes along with Watson -  Taj, Brewer, Asik - three of our better defenders.  Thibs likes to bring these three in along with Watson AND he keeps Luol Deng on the floor.  Of course the defense is going to improve especially when you consider Boozer - IMO the weakest defender out of every Bull not named Scalabrine and Butler is taken out when Rose is subbed out as well. 

2-This argument would be more credible, IMO if Rose's improvement was only marginal.  If Rose had stayed practically the same player he was last year and the Bulls STILL are at the top of the standings then of course we can point to Thib's coaching as the main factor in the Bulls improvement.  As it is I would go 50/50 on this.  The Bulls need Thibs just as much as they need Rose. 

The game that we just had would not have been possible without Thib's defense AND Rose's improvement.  We were down what, 13 or 14 in the 3rd - maybe 15.  Milwaukee was playing us tough the whole game.  We were just trying to chip in the lead and we did.  And it was made possible by the fact that our defense put a stranglehold on the Bucks and the fact that Rose carried the entire offense in the 2nd. 

The game was closer than the score would lead you to believe and best believe that the Bulls needed every basket and assist Derrick had.  He had 30 and 17.  Last year's Rose could not have had that game, or any other great game that the Bulls had needed from him to pull out wins this year. 

Bulls improvement has a lot to do with Thibs but we can't be giving all the credit to Thibs.  That's just unfair to Rose but y'all are doing it. 

3- Dwight is definitely number 2 and he would probably be number 1 maybe if the Magic was just ranked higher.  When you're ranked number 4 in the East you better have ungodly numbers to overcome the media's penchant for only picking MVP's from highly seeded teams.  Dwight is doing his thing and he definitely gets props from me.  The only problem I have is when people say Dwight is "doing more with less" - the Magic personnel are just fine.  They have Jameer, who was once an all star caliber pg.  They have Turk, one of the key pieces to a Magic team that went to the finals.  Jason Richardson is talented and so is Gil.  The "more with less" thing really irks me but besides that I actually like Dwight. 

4-Russy is more efficient than Rose because he doesn't have an entire defense gunning for him.  He has a 30 ppg machine deflecting much of the attention from him.  Russy is doing his thing and he'll probably still be doing his thing if he was the #1 option on another team BUT I will put ANYTHING on the line that his highly touted efficiency will go down in the process as well. 

Efficiency, I've noticed is a card I've seen played a lot in arguments on NT this season.  It has been used to credit and discredit players in different arguments and I'm kinda tired of it. 

Too much emphasis has been put on it to the point where it's getting overrated. 

Efficiency is nice but it's not the bottom line. 

You can have Dirk and Nash who I know are both ungodly players in terms of efficiency but I'll take Kobe, who's not as efficient (how I hate to bring him into an argument) over each of them every time. 


That's pretty much all I got to say on this.  I'm pretty sure I've done nothing to change your minds but hey, as long as my argument is heard.  Whether my argument made a dent or not doesn't matter - Rose is winning it regardless.
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how chris paul is not in everyone's top 5 is beyond me..


i get rose

i get howard

i get that KD/westbrook will cancel each other out

i even get james


but seriously, dude is doing it on 1 leg with that team in the west (currently 42-32)
 
how chris paul is not in everyone's top 5 is beyond me..


i get rose

i get howard

i get that KD/westbrook will cancel each other out

i even get james


but seriously, dude is doing it on 1 leg with that team in the west (currently 42-32)
 
Dude of course people rehash arguments because they are still true.

Dwight is doing more with less.
Russy's numbers are very similar.
Defense and rebounding are the reason the bulls are so good.
Lebron is still the best player in the league.

These arguments are true and remain true, and other than bulls fans yelling "no it isn't" there isn't any real evidence refuting these claims.


So enjoy the MVP but please stop operating from a position of infallibility, because other than having a great made up narrative to tell about Rose, your argument is leaky as hell.
 
Dude of course people rehash arguments because they are still true.

Dwight is doing more with less.
Russy's numbers are very similar.
Defense and rebounding are the reason the bulls are so good.
Lebron is still the best player in the league.

These arguments are true and remain true, and other than bulls fans yelling "no it isn't" there isn't any real evidence refuting these claims.


So enjoy the MVP but please stop operating from a position of infallibility, because other than having a great made up narrative to tell about Rose, your argument is leaky as hell.
 
itsaboutthattime wrote:
how chris paul is not in everyone's top 5 is beyond me..


i get rose

i get howard

i get that KD/westbrook will cancel each other out

i even get james


but seriously, dude is doing it on 1 leg with that team in the west (currently 42-32)

Sit down.
Click to expand...
 
itsaboutthattime wrote:
how chris paul is not in everyone's top 5 is beyond me..


i get rose

i get howard

i get that KD/westbrook will cancel each other out

i even get james


but seriously, dude is doing it on 1 leg with that team in the west (currently 42-32)

Sit down.
Click to expand...
 
Well his team is 6th in the West so that takes shine off him. As much as we want to believe the award is strictly an individual accolade, clearly the writers who vote on it have great team success as a vital component. And I'm sorry, being 4th in your conference even though he's having a monster year isn't going to cut it for D12.

This race had been over for a while IMO when Rose went ham on the Heat a few weeks ago. He has had a spectacular season AND his team is probably going to end up with the best record in the East, all that's left now is for Pooh to pick out what suit he's wearing to the peres conference.
 
Well his team is 6th in the West so that takes shine off him. As much as we want to believe the award is strictly an individual accolade, clearly the writers who vote on it have great team success as a vital component. And I'm sorry, being 4th in your conference even though he's having a monster year isn't going to cut it for D12.

This race had been over for a while IMO when Rose went ham on the Heat a few weeks ago. He has had a spectacular season AND his team is probably going to end up with the best record in the East, all that's left now is for Pooh to pick out what suit he's wearing to the peres conference.
 
Mamba MVP wrote:

This race had been over for a while IMO when Rose went ham on the Heat a few weeks ago. He has had a spectacular season AND his team is probably going to end up with the best record in the East, all that's left now is for Pooh to pick out what suit he's wearing to the peres conference.


There it is.
Click to expand...
 
Mamba MVP wrote:

This race had been over for a while IMO when Rose went ham on the Heat a few weeks ago. He has had a spectacular season AND his team is probably going to end up with the best record in the East, all that's left now is for Pooh to pick out what suit he's wearing to the peres conference.


There it is.
Click to expand...
 
Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Dude of course people rehash arguments because they are still true.

Dwight is doing more with less.
Russy's numbers are very similar.
Defense and rebounding are the reason the bulls are so good.
Lebron is still the best player in the league.

These arguments are true and remain true, and other than bulls fans yelling "no it isn't" there isn't any real evidence refuting these claims.


So enjoy the MVP but please stop operating from a position of infallibility, because other than having a great made up narrative to tell about Rose, your argument is leaky as hell.
Click to expand...


1) I'm sorry but I don't see this Dwight Howard has less help argument that everyone keeps throwing around... I don't get it.

Jason Richardson extremely competant 2 who can get you buckets off a screen or attacking the rim who's been very clutch has kept them in games/even won games for them with his shooting alone.
Jameer Nelson  like its been stated damn good pg who can get 18 and 6 even though his scoring has been down this year
Hedo he's still the same player he was when they went to the finals
Brandon Bass work horse on the block
Gilbert nut case but definitely has the tools to get you 30
Ryan Anderson stretch 4 who's a legitimate 3 point threat
JJ one of the best shooters in the league drastically impoved defensively (he's been out as of late)
Meanwhile he's a better version of Noah & Boozer combined basically in terms of ability to defend and score


On the other hand the bulls started Kurt Thomas at center for almost 30 games this season then before that Taj Gibson started around 20 at the power forward position. The starting front court has missed 50+ games this season
If the bulls can get 8 points from there STARTING 2 Guard it was a good night for him

Like people can't be serious with this arguement.

2) I won't go into the Russy arguement because that's beating a dead horse

3) Our coach who is responsible for that defensive system has gone on record countless times to state that if it weren't for Derrick Rose we would not be winning games regardless of how great our defense is.  People want to point to our defense our defense and totally ignore that you have to score the ball as well in order to win games.  If you can hold a team to 83 but can't score 84 it means absolutely nothing.  They also don't talk about how much his defense has improved either ie he's pretty much been controlling top PG's since Batum made that comment about him not being able to guard Andre Miller.

4) Mike was the best player from bar none from 88 until he retired... yet he still missed out on a couple namely Barkley & Malone's.

So yea Bulls fan's are yelling just as much as detractors are... and you sound silly to say there's no evidence refuting your claims as well.
 
Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Dude of course people rehash arguments because they are still true.

Dwight is doing more with less.
Russy's numbers are very similar.
Defense and rebounding are the reason the bulls are so good.
Lebron is still the best player in the league.

These arguments are true and remain true, and other than bulls fans yelling "no it isn't" there isn't any real evidence refuting these claims.


So enjoy the MVP but please stop operating from a position of infallibility, because other than having a great made up narrative to tell about Rose, your argument is leaky as hell.
Click to expand...


1) I'm sorry but I don't see this Dwight Howard has less help argument that everyone keeps throwing around... I don't get it.

Jason Richardson extremely competant 2 who can get you buckets off a screen or attacking the rim who's been very clutch has kept them in games/even won games for them with his shooting alone.
Jameer Nelson  like its been stated damn good pg who can get 18 and 6 even though his scoring has been down this year
Hedo he's still the same player he was when they went to the finals
Brandon Bass work horse on the block
Gilbert nut case but definitely has the tools to get you 30
Ryan Anderson stretch 4 who's a legitimate 3 point threat
JJ one of the best shooters in the league drastically impoved defensively (he's been out as of late)
Meanwhile he's a better version of Noah & Boozer combined basically in terms of ability to defend and score


On the other hand the bulls started Kurt Thomas at center for almost 30 games this season then before that Taj Gibson started around 20 at the power forward position. The starting front court has missed 50+ games this season
If the bulls can get 8 points from there STARTING 2 Guard it was a good night for him

Like people can't be serious with this arguement.

2) I won't go into the Russy arguement because that's beating a dead horse

3) Our coach who is responsible for that defensive system has gone on record countless times to state that if it weren't for Derrick Rose we would not be winning games regardless of how great our defense is.  People want to point to our defense our defense and totally ignore that you have to score the ball as well in order to win games.  If you can hold a team to 83 but can't score 84 it means absolutely nothing.  They also don't talk about how much his defense has improved either ie he's pretty much been controlling top PG's since Batum made that comment about him not being able to guard Andre Miller.

4) Mike was the best player from bar none from 88 until he retired... yet he still missed out on a couple namely Barkley & Malone's.

So yea Bulls fan's are yelling just as much as detractors are... and you sound silly to say there's no evidence refuting your claims as well.
 
Cowherd just basically set the tone on the MVP race and how the media portray the difference between the Bulls and Heat and other teams
 
Cowherd just basically set the tone on the MVP race and how the media portray the difference between the Bulls and Heat and other teams
 
Cake
pimp.gif


D12 has plenty of help they just haven't played well and quite frankly have underachieved this season though I won't put that on Dwight, but it is a fact. They are going to be worse than last season with D12 having a brr year and pretty interchangeable pieces from last years squad. We all know Vince had no heart and Rashad could not guard a chair or grab a rebound.

Rose has had his two workhorses inside miss almost half a season each and it the Bulls haven't skipped a beat, to say D12 has had less to work with is asinine.
 
Cake
pimp.gif


D12 has plenty of help they just haven't played well and quite frankly have underachieved this season though I won't put that on Dwight, but it is a fact. They are going to be worse than last season with D12 having a brr year and pretty interchangeable pieces from last years squad. We all know Vince had no heart and Rashad could not guard a chair or grab a rebound.

Rose has had his two workhorses inside miss almost half a season each and it the Bulls haven't skipped a beat, to say D12 has had less to work with is asinine.
 
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