2011 NBA MVP Thread

[nooera]

DRose for MVP!! Dude is having a great year and while Thibbs is a great coach (C's

) Rose is the main reason for the Bulls' success this year . Anyone who thinks otherwise is drunk. I mean , they're first in the East over Bos, Mia , and Orl and Rose is their most important player and highest scorer. What more do ya'll naysayers want ?

 

[nooera]

DRose for MVP!! Dude is having a great year and while Thibbs is a great coach (C's

) Rose is the main reason for the Bulls' success this year . Anyone who thinks otherwise is drunk. I mean , they're first in the East over Bos, Mia , and Orl and Rose is their most important player and highest scorer. What more do ya'll naysayers want ?

 

[CJ616]

There's no way Rose doesn't win.  He's has the best argument out of anyone.

 

[CJ616]

There's no way Rose doesn't win.  He's has the best argument out of anyone.

 

[MVP]

Originally Posted by streethoopkilla


Cowherd just basically set the tone on the MVP race and how the media portray the difference between the Bulls and Heat and other teams

First off, Cowherd its an idiot. !#* do the media have to do with his 25, 8, and 4? Or the fact that his team is ahead of ask those other squads. Knick him for his shooting percentage all you want. Kid is just that damn good and has been as integral of a cog in his teams success as anyone in the league.

 

[MVP]

Originally Posted by streethoopkilla


Cowherd just basically set the tone on the MVP race and how the media portray the difference between the Bulls and Heat and other teams

First off, Cowherd its an idiot. !#* do the media have to do with his 25, 8, and 4? Or the fact that his team is ahead of ask those other squads. Knick him for his shooting percentage all you want. Kid is just that damn good and has been as integral of a cog in his teams success as anyone in the league.

 

[streethoopkilla]

Originally Posted by Mamba MVP

Originally Posted by streethoopkilla


Cowherd just basically set the tone on the MVP race and how the media portray the difference between the Bulls and Heat and other teams

First off, Cowherd its an idiot. !#* do the media have to do with his 25, 8, and 4? Or the fact that his team is ahead of ask those other squads. Knick him for his shooting percentage all you want. Kid is just that damn good and has been as integral of a cog in his teams success as anyone in the league.

  He went on to say Lebron leads every stat over rose except for assist which is 1. And how Lebron is globally the MVP due to how he turns a team around all by himself. Lebron faces national cristicm and Rose only local. If Rose were to lose in the first round ppl wouldnt say anything but if Lebron did he would get a whole bunch of emails along with every headline saying he chokes. and how if MIA loses the blame goes to lebron and when the bulls lose Rose doesnt get much blame. He continued saying rose wouldnt lead the cavs to a 66 win season or even 50 plus. He was basically just saying that the MVP race isnt that much wider and that ppl just dont want to give it to lebron due to not only the way he handled FA but because it gets tedious giving the MVP to the one player that is the most valuable in the league similar to what happened with jordan when malone won

 

[streethoopkilla]

Originally Posted by Mamba MVP

Originally Posted by streethoopkilla


Cowherd just basically set the tone on the MVP race and how the media portray the difference between the Bulls and Heat and other teams

First off, Cowherd its an idiot. !#* do the media have to do with his 25, 8, and 4? Or the fact that his team is ahead of ask those other squads. Knick him for his shooting percentage all you want. Kid is just that damn good and has been as integral of a cog in his teams success as anyone in the league.

  He went on to say Lebron leads every stat over rose except for assist which is 1. And how Lebron is globally the MVP due to how he turns a team around all by himself. Lebron faces national cristicm and Rose only local. If Rose were to lose in the first round ppl wouldnt say anything but if Lebron did he would get a whole bunch of emails along with every headline saying he chokes. and how if MIA loses the blame goes to lebron and when the bulls lose Rose doesnt get much blame. He continued saying rose wouldnt lead the cavs to a 66 win season or even 50 plus. He was basically just saying that the MVP race isnt that much wider and that ppl just dont want to give it to lebron due to not only the way he handled FA but because it gets tedious giving the MVP to the one player that is the most valuable in the league similar to what happened with jordan when malone won

 

[pmatic]

[h3][/h3]

[h3]Rose v. Howard: Why Do Chicago and Orlando Win? [/h3]Back we go to the MVP, I just can't resist. I have not favored Derrick Rose in the 2010-11 NBA MVP race, but what he did on Saturday night on the "road" in Milwaukee was something to behold.

Trailing 83-79 with five minutes to go, Chicago outscored the Bucks 16-4 the rest of the way, with Rose responsible for every single point, tallying 10 points and three assists at crunch time. Over the last three minutes, the Bulls scored 12 points on six possessions thanks to Rose's heroics.

It was certainly not the first time this season that Rose closed a game brilliantly in the fourth quarter, and it all made me go back to the drawing board and ask: man, am I really sure that Derrick Rose isn't the NBA MVP this season? I decided to dive back into the numbers and give D-Rose the fairest shake I possibly could. (After all, my mythical MVP vote is on the line!)

I decided to start with the Four Factors, the statistics which correlate most closely with winning, as delineated by analyst Dean Oliver (now with ESPN) in his book Basketball on Paper:

• - Shooting: Effective field-goal percentage (eFG%)
  - Rebounding: Offensive/defensive rebounding percentage
  - Turnovers: Turnover percentage (TOs per possession)
  - Free Throws: FT/FGA

In practicality, there are eight factors in which teams can be ranked - both their own performance in the Four Factors, and also their opponents' performance, as well.

How do the Chicago Bulls win games?
That's the question I was trying to get to the heart of. For many of you, this particular story is familiar: Chicago wins with defense. In terms of points per possession, the Bulls rank 12th in offense and 2nd in defense. Here's their profile in terms of league rankings for the Four Factors, for both own stats and opponents':

CHICAGO BULLS - FOUR FACTORS

          OWN       OPP- eFG%:    14        1- TO:      15       12- REB:      4        3- FT/FGA:  10 (17)  12 (13)

I was unsurprised to see the Bulls rank best in the league in effective field-goal percentage on defense (note: eFG% is simply normal FG% with an extra .5 credited for every made three-pointer), but I guess I didn't fully grasp their rebounding excellence.

Not only do they rank high in both offensive and defensive rebounding, but combine those into overall rebounding percentage, and the Bulls are the best rebounding team in the league, by a fairly significant margin.

The Chicago Bulls win primarily because of defense and rebounding, it is clear. And their defensive prowess is based in forcing opponents to shoot poorly from the floor, rather than creating turnovers. Generally speaking, Chicago's strengths as a team do not correlate with the individual strengths of Derrick Rose.

[Note: Many others have noted that Chicago's bench has been an underrated reason for its success, as well - it's quietly been one of the best benches in the league, excelling especially on the defensive end, anchored by tough defensive bigs Taj Gibson, Kurt Thomas and Omer Asik.]

OK, so the evidence from the Four Factors wasn't in D-Rose's favor. But the Bulls have been on a hellacious 15-2 run to take over the top seed in the East since dropping the first game after the break to Toronto. I figured it would be fair to Rose to check on his stats during this stretch, to examine how he's driven Chicago to the top. It's here that I was fairly stunned. Here are Rose's pre- and post-All Star break splits:

       FG      FG%   FT     FT%   3P     3P%   PTS  REB  ASTPre  9.1-20.2 .450 1.5-4.3 .355 5.2-6.2 .838  24.9  4.4  8.2Post 8.2-20.2 .404 1.7-6.1 .284 7.0-7.9 .887  25.1  3.7  7.1

Wait, what? That's your MVP push? 40% field-goal percentage? Baron Davis-quality gunning from behind the arc?

I do credit Rose for continuing to get to the line more often, as it had previously been a key deficiency, but his true shooting percentage (TS%) has still been below league average (.529) since the break (Rose is at the league average of .540 for the whole season).

The three-point shooting is truly stunning. Another oft-cited weakness of Rose's game prior to the season, he reportedly worked on his long-distance shooting throughout the offseason, and such evidence can be seen in his pre-All-Star break numbers.

What's shocking about Rose's outside-shooting numbers is not that his percentage has regressed back near that of his first two seasons (.242 overall), but that he's still jacking them up at such a high volume (his 109 threes since the break is almost as many as he attempted in his first two *seasons* combined - 132).

Derrick Rose is a great player who has had an outstanding season. He is the best player on the best team in the Eastern Conference. He has been the driving offensive force in pulling out wins in the fourth quarter on several occasions. The Bulls offense as a whole has been excellent when he's been on the floor.

But Derrick Rose has been one of several key factors - defense (and the coaching behind it), Rose, rebounding, bench - in the Bulls' surprising success this season. He has not been the single primary factor.

One other interesting factor I discovered while exploring the Bulls is the team's bizarre injury profile. A significant factor behind the Rose-for-MVP narrative is that he has kept the Bulls afloat despite substantial injuries to the team's second- and third-best players (Carlos Boozer, 23 missed games; Joakim Noah, 31 missed games).

Yet, what I found remarkable is that the Bulls have otherwise had almost pristine health. Out of the other nine players who've seen significant time this season, there have been three games lost to injury, total (Rose, 1; Gibson, 2). That's a shockingly low number. I think the perception is that Chicago has been hit hard by injuries. In reality, I'd guess the loss of two stars for significant time balanced by almost no other missed games leaves the Bulls with a fairly average injury profile overall.

How do the Orlando Magic win games?
My mythical vote is not necessarily a Rose vs. Howard proposition at the moment, but I wanted to check out how the Four Factors argument worked out for another top candidate, to see if my reasoning above was unduly or unfairly harsh towards Rose. So, I took a look at the Orlando Magic and Dwight Howard, who rank 14th in offense and 3rd in defense overall:

ORLANDO MAGIC - FOUR FACTORS

          OWN       OPP- eFG%:     5        4- TO:      25       15- REB:     17        1- FT/FGA:   5 (15)  15 (

The Magic are strong in effective field-goal percentage at both ends of the floor. Dwight Howard's .601 eFG% is second in the league. He's also the undisputed force behind the team's field-goal defense, as a multiple Defensive Player of the Year winner without much, if any, imposing defensive talent surrounding him.

Orlando's also exceptional at defensive rebounding. Howard is second in the league in defensive rebounds per game (10.2) and third in defensive rebounding percentage (30.3).

The FT/FGA factor is an interesting one, as there is some question as to whether that factor is better calculated as FTM/FGA or FTA/FGA. There is secondary value in simply drawing a large number of fouls, mainly to get the opposition into foul trouble. For both teams, FTA/FGA and FTM/FGA (in parens) are listed.

The different measurements change Orlando's ranking significantly, mainly because Dwight Howard draws a lot of fouls, but also misses a lot of foul shots. Howard shoots 11.8 free throws per game, leading the league by a huge margin of more than 3 FTA per game. I believe that drawing fouls is a major positive factor, and thus favor FTA/FGA as a calculation, though I can accept that you may prefer FTM/FGA, which changes the reading of how vital Howard is in this category.

In any event, I strongly believe that FTA correlates more closely with winning than FT%. I'd much rather have Howard shooting 12 FTA per game, and making only 59%, than having Stephen Curry shooting 3 FTA per game, but making 93%.

It's also worth noting that the Magic are particularly bad in committing turnovers. Dwight Howard ranks slightly above average in turnover rate for a center. The real culprits for Orlando in this category are point guards Jameer Nelson, Gilbert Arenas and Chris Duhon.

All of this is to say that the success of the Orlando Magic correlates almost directly with the strengths of Dwight Howard. The Magic win games primarily because of Dwight Howard, period. Secondarily, they make a lot of three-pointers of average, and have an excellent coach. But Dwight is the driving force.

Of course, things get fairly reductive at some point, and people view both Chicago and Orlando as teams with one superstar, and thus point to W-L records - Chicago's 53-19 is 6.5 games better than Orlando's 47-26 - as evidence that Rose is better than Howard.

As described above, I believe that this kind of reasoning severely underrates that Dwight Howard is much more responsible for Orlando's wins than Derrick Rose is for Chicago's. I'd also say that, even with Boozer and Noah missing a combined 54 games, I'd still much rather have the talent surrounding Rose than the collection of pretty good and/or aging players around Howard.

I was fully ready to swing to the Rose MVP camp following his performance late in the game on Saturday. However, after digging into the evidence, I feel more strongly than ever that Derrick Rose does not deserve to be the 2010-11 NBA MVP, though I have little doubt at this point that he will win the award. I'm going to withhold judgment on my mythical ballot as a whole for another couple weeks.
Link

 

[pmatic]

[h3][/h3]

[h3]Rose v. Howard: Why Do Chicago and Orlando Win? [/h3]Back we go to the MVP, I just can't resist. I have not favored Derrick Rose in the 2010-11 NBA MVP race, but what he did on Saturday night on the "road" in Milwaukee was something to behold.

Trailing 83-79 with five minutes to go, Chicago outscored the Bucks 16-4 the rest of the way, with Rose responsible for every single point, tallying 10 points and three assists at crunch time. Over the last three minutes, the Bulls scored 12 points on six possessions thanks to Rose's heroics.

It was certainly not the first time this season that Rose closed a game brilliantly in the fourth quarter, and it all made me go back to the drawing board and ask: man, am I really sure that Derrick Rose isn't the NBA MVP this season? I decided to dive back into the numbers and give D-Rose the fairest shake I possibly could. (After all, my mythical MVP vote is on the line!)

I decided to start with the Four Factors, the statistics which correlate most closely with winning, as delineated by analyst Dean Oliver (now with ESPN) in his book Basketball on Paper:

• - Shooting: Effective field-goal percentage (eFG%)
  - Rebounding: Offensive/defensive rebounding percentage
  - Turnovers: Turnover percentage (TOs per possession)
  - Free Throws: FT/FGA

In practicality, there are eight factors in which teams can be ranked - both their own performance in the Four Factors, and also their opponents' performance, as well.

How do the Chicago Bulls win games?
That's the question I was trying to get to the heart of. For many of you, this particular story is familiar: Chicago wins with defense. In terms of points per possession, the Bulls rank 12th in offense and 2nd in defense. Here's their profile in terms of league rankings for the Four Factors, for both own stats and opponents':

CHICAGO BULLS - FOUR FACTORS

          OWN       OPP- eFG%:    14        1- TO:      15       12- REB:      4        3- FT/FGA:  10 (17)  12 (13)

I was unsurprised to see the Bulls rank best in the league in effective field-goal percentage on defense (note: eFG% is simply normal FG% with an extra .5 credited for every made three-pointer), but I guess I didn't fully grasp their rebounding excellence.

Not only do they rank high in both offensive and defensive rebounding, but combine those into overall rebounding percentage, and the Bulls are the best rebounding team in the league, by a fairly significant margin.

The Chicago Bulls win primarily because of defense and rebounding, it is clear. And their defensive prowess is based in forcing opponents to shoot poorly from the floor, rather than creating turnovers. Generally speaking, Chicago's strengths as a team do not correlate with the individual strengths of Derrick Rose.

[Note: Many others have noted that Chicago's bench has been an underrated reason for its success, as well - it's quietly been one of the best benches in the league, excelling especially on the defensive end, anchored by tough defensive bigs Taj Gibson, Kurt Thomas and Omer Asik.]

OK, so the evidence from the Four Factors wasn't in D-Rose's favor. But the Bulls have been on a hellacious 15-2 run to take over the top seed in the East since dropping the first game after the break to Toronto. I figured it would be fair to Rose to check on his stats during this stretch, to examine how he's driven Chicago to the top. It's here that I was fairly stunned. Here are Rose's pre- and post-All Star break splits:

       FG      FG%   FT     FT%   3P     3P%   PTS  REB  ASTPre  9.1-20.2 .450 1.5-4.3 .355 5.2-6.2 .838  24.9  4.4  8.2Post 8.2-20.2 .404 1.7-6.1 .284 7.0-7.9 .887  25.1  3.7  7.1

Wait, what? That's your MVP push? 40% field-goal percentage? Baron Davis-quality gunning from behind the arc?

I do credit Rose for continuing to get to the line more often, as it had previously been a key deficiency, but his true shooting percentage (TS%) has still been below league average (.529) since the break (Rose is at the league average of .540 for the whole season).

The three-point shooting is truly stunning. Another oft-cited weakness of Rose's game prior to the season, he reportedly worked on his long-distance shooting throughout the offseason, and such evidence can be seen in his pre-All-Star break numbers.

What's shocking about Rose's outside-shooting numbers is not that his percentage has regressed back near that of his first two seasons (.242 overall), but that he's still jacking them up at such a high volume (his 109 threes since the break is almost as many as he attempted in his first two *seasons* combined - 132).

Derrick Rose is a great player who has had an outstanding season. He is the best player on the best team in the Eastern Conference. He has been the driving offensive force in pulling out wins in the fourth quarter on several occasions. The Bulls offense as a whole has been excellent when he's been on the floor.

But Derrick Rose has been one of several key factors - defense (and the coaching behind it), Rose, rebounding, bench - in the Bulls' surprising success this season. He has not been the single primary factor.

One other interesting factor I discovered while exploring the Bulls is the team's bizarre injury profile. A significant factor behind the Rose-for-MVP narrative is that he has kept the Bulls afloat despite substantial injuries to the team's second- and third-best players (Carlos Boozer, 23 missed games; Joakim Noah, 31 missed games).

Yet, what I found remarkable is that the Bulls have otherwise had almost pristine health. Out of the other nine players who've seen significant time this season, there have been three games lost to injury, total (Rose, 1; Gibson, 2). That's a shockingly low number. I think the perception is that Chicago has been hit hard by injuries. In reality, I'd guess the loss of two stars for significant time balanced by almost no other missed games leaves the Bulls with a fairly average injury profile overall.

How do the Orlando Magic win games?
My mythical vote is not necessarily a Rose vs. Howard proposition at the moment, but I wanted to check out how the Four Factors argument worked out for another top candidate, to see if my reasoning above was unduly or unfairly harsh towards Rose. So, I took a look at the Orlando Magic and Dwight Howard, who rank 14th in offense and 3rd in defense overall:

ORLANDO MAGIC - FOUR FACTORS

          OWN       OPP- eFG%:     5        4- TO:      25       15- REB:     17        1- FT/FGA:   5 (15)  15 (

The Magic are strong in effective field-goal percentage at both ends of the floor. Dwight Howard's .601 eFG% is second in the league. He's also the undisputed force behind the team's field-goal defense, as a multiple Defensive Player of the Year winner without much, if any, imposing defensive talent surrounding him.

Orlando's also exceptional at defensive rebounding. Howard is second in the league in defensive rebounds per game (10.2) and third in defensive rebounding percentage (30.3).

The FT/FGA factor is an interesting one, as there is some question as to whether that factor is better calculated as FTM/FGA or FTA/FGA. There is secondary value in simply drawing a large number of fouls, mainly to get the opposition into foul trouble. For both teams, FTA/FGA and FTM/FGA (in parens) are listed.

The different measurements change Orlando's ranking significantly, mainly because Dwight Howard draws a lot of fouls, but also misses a lot of foul shots. Howard shoots 11.8 free throws per game, leading the league by a huge margin of more than 3 FTA per game. I believe that drawing fouls is a major positive factor, and thus favor FTA/FGA as a calculation, though I can accept that you may prefer FTM/FGA, which changes the reading of how vital Howard is in this category.

In any event, I strongly believe that FTA correlates more closely with winning than FT%. I'd much rather have Howard shooting 12 FTA per game, and making only 59%, than having Stephen Curry shooting 3 FTA per game, but making 93%.

It's also worth noting that the Magic are particularly bad in committing turnovers. Dwight Howard ranks slightly above average in turnover rate for a center. The real culprits for Orlando in this category are point guards Jameer Nelson, Gilbert Arenas and Chris Duhon.

All of this is to say that the success of the Orlando Magic correlates almost directly with the strengths of Dwight Howard. The Magic win games primarily because of Dwight Howard, period. Secondarily, they make a lot of three-pointers of average, and have an excellent coach. But Dwight is the driving force.

Of course, things get fairly reductive at some point, and people view both Chicago and Orlando as teams with one superstar, and thus point to W-L records - Chicago's 53-19 is 6.5 games better than Orlando's 47-26 - as evidence that Rose is better than Howard.

As described above, I believe that this kind of reasoning severely underrates that Dwight Howard is much more responsible for Orlando's wins than Derrick Rose is for Chicago's. I'd also say that, even with Boozer and Noah missing a combined 54 games, I'd still much rather have the talent surrounding Rose than the collection of pretty good and/or aging players around Howard.

I was fully ready to swing to the Rose MVP camp following his performance late in the game on Saturday. However, after digging into the evidence, I feel more strongly than ever that Derrick Rose does not deserve to be the 2010-11 NBA MVP, though I have little doubt at this point that he will win the award. I'm going to withhold judgment on my mythical ballot as a whole for another couple weeks.
Link

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by Seymore CAKE

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Dude of course people rehash arguments because they are still true.

Dwight is doing more with less.
Russy's numbers are very similar.
Defense and rebounding are the reason the bulls are so good.
Lebron is still the best player in the league.

These arguments are true and remain true, and other than bulls fans yelling "no it isn't" there isn't any real evidence refuting these claims.


So enjoy the MVP but please stop operating from a position of infallibility, because other than having a great made up narrative to tell about Rose, your argument is leaky as hell.

1) I'm sorry but I don't see this Dwight Howard has less help argument that everyone keeps throwing around... I don't get it. Jason Richardson extremely competant 2 who can get you buckets off a screen or attacking the rim who's been very clutch has kept them in games/even won games for them with his shooting alone.
Jameer Nelson  like its been stated damn good pg who can get 18 and 6 even though his scoring has been down this year
Hedo he's still the same player he was when they went to the finals
Brandon Bass work horse on the block
Gilbert nut case but definitely has the tools to get you 30
Ryan Anderson stretch 4 who's a legitimate 3 point threat
JJ one of the best shooters in the league drastically impoved defensively (he's been out as of late)
Meanwhile he's a better version of Noah & Boozer combined basically in terms of ability to defend and score

Jameer Nelson has been garbage since he got that injury 2 years ago, he is no where the caliber gaurd he was so it's the 2011 MVP not the 2007.
Hedo is garbage, and people forget all the times Hedo played badly because of those clutch shots he hit, he hasn't been good in 3 years. 
Brandon bass is a undersized PF who doesn't rebound, and can hit an open 15 footer, If that's what you mean by work horse sure.
Gilrbert is GARBAGE right now man inst he still shooting like 32% from it's been 3 years since Gil has even been alive. Thats the most ridiculous claim you made.
Ryan Anderson is the goods, Ill give you that.
JJ is a solid role player.

CAKE, it's not about who has the most famous teammates, it's about who's teammates are better, just because the Magic are full of has beens doesn't mean they are good, all thsoe guys I mentioned are defensive liabilities besides maybe Bass and JJ yet they still have the THIRD best D in the league. All becuase od D12.

On the other hand the bulls started Kurt Thomas at center for almost 30 games this season then before that Taj Gibson started around 20 at the power forward position. The starting front court has missed 50+ games this season
If the bulls can get 8 points from there STARTING 2 Guard it was a good night for him
Kurt Thomas is an awesome role player, his defense has been great this year, he's just useless on offense. It's becoming clear are only looking at your teams offense capabilities and ignore defense. Taj is a really good player as well, his 7'6 wing span probably contribute to that vaunted defense of yours.

Evans is the only who you guys should have beef with because his defense is not good enough to offset his terrible offense.

This isn't the offensive MVP award, we are all aware D. Rose has had to carry them on offense for a while, that's great, but that's only half the game.

3) Our coach who is responsible for that defensive system has gone on record countless times to state that if it weren't for Derrick Rose we would not be winning games regardless of how great our defense is.  People want to point to our defense our defense and totally ignore that you have to score the ball as well in order to win games.  If you can hold a team to 83 but can't score 84 it means absolutely nothing.  They also don't talk about how much his defense has improved either ie he's pretty much been controlling top PG's since Batum made that comment about him not being able to guard Andre Miller.
Whats the coach gunna say? It's all me, !%@% D. Rose? cmon man.

Defense is more important that offense when it comes to winning chips, this is fact, no team without a top 7 defense has ever one a chip. His defense has improved from laughable to mediocre. Horray for him, lets throw a parade, im not sure why we have to give him an MVP award.

4) Mike was the best player from bar none from 88 until he retired... yet he still missed out on a couple namely Barkley & Malone's.
I have said this before on NT but those years Barkley and Malone were playing better than him by a pretty decent margin, they deserved those MVP's Jordan did not.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by Seymore CAKE

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Dude of course people rehash arguments because they are still true.

Dwight is doing more with less.
Russy's numbers are very similar.
Defense and rebounding are the reason the bulls are so good.
Lebron is still the best player in the league.

These arguments are true and remain true, and other than bulls fans yelling "no it isn't" there isn't any real evidence refuting these claims.


So enjoy the MVP but please stop operating from a position of infallibility, because other than having a great made up narrative to tell about Rose, your argument is leaky as hell.

1) I'm sorry but I don't see this Dwight Howard has less help argument that everyone keeps throwing around... I don't get it. Jason Richardson extremely competant 2 who can get you buckets off a screen or attacking the rim who's been very clutch has kept them in games/even won games for them with his shooting alone.
Jameer Nelson  like its been stated damn good pg who can get 18 and 6 even though his scoring has been down this year
Hedo he's still the same player he was when they went to the finals
Brandon Bass work horse on the block
Gilbert nut case but definitely has the tools to get you 30
Ryan Anderson stretch 4 who's a legitimate 3 point threat
JJ one of the best shooters in the league drastically impoved defensively (he's been out as of late)
Meanwhile he's a better version of Noah & Boozer combined basically in terms of ability to defend and score

Jameer Nelson has been garbage since he got that injury 2 years ago, he is no where the caliber gaurd he was so it's the 2011 MVP not the 2007.
Hedo is garbage, and people forget all the times Hedo played badly because of those clutch shots he hit, he hasn't been good in 3 years. 
Brandon bass is a undersized PF who doesn't rebound, and can hit an open 15 footer, If that's what you mean by work horse sure.
Gilrbert is GARBAGE right now man inst he still shooting like 32% from it's been 3 years since Gil has even been alive. Thats the most ridiculous claim you made.
Ryan Anderson is the goods, Ill give you that.
JJ is a solid role player.

CAKE, it's not about who has the most famous teammates, it's about who's teammates are better, just because the Magic are full of has beens doesn't mean they are good, all thsoe guys I mentioned are defensive liabilities besides maybe Bass and JJ yet they still have the THIRD best D in the league. All becuase od D12.

On the other hand the bulls started Kurt Thomas at center for almost 30 games this season then before that Taj Gibson started around 20 at the power forward position. The starting front court has missed 50+ games this season
If the bulls can get 8 points from there STARTING 2 Guard it was a good night for him
Kurt Thomas is an awesome role player, his defense has been great this year, he's just useless on offense. It's becoming clear are only looking at your teams offense capabilities and ignore defense. Taj is a really good player as well, his 7'6 wing span probably contribute to that vaunted defense of yours.

Evans is the only who you guys should have beef with because his defense is not good enough to offset his terrible offense.

This isn't the offensive MVP award, we are all aware D. Rose has had to carry them on offense for a while, that's great, but that's only half the game.

3) Our coach who is responsible for that defensive system has gone on record countless times to state that if it weren't for Derrick Rose we would not be winning games regardless of how great our defense is.  People want to point to our defense our defense and totally ignore that you have to score the ball as well in order to win games.  If you can hold a team to 83 but can't score 84 it means absolutely nothing.  They also don't talk about how much his defense has improved either ie he's pretty much been controlling top PG's since Batum made that comment about him not being able to guard Andre Miller.
Whats the coach gunna say? It's all me, !%@% D. Rose? cmon man.

Defense is more important that offense when it comes to winning chips, this is fact, no team without a top 7 defense has ever one a chip. His defense has improved from laughable to mediocre. Horray for him, lets throw a parade, im not sure why we have to give him an MVP award.

4) Mike was the best player from bar none from 88 until he retired... yet he still missed out on a couple namely Barkley & Malone's.
I have said this before on NT but those years Barkley and Malone were playing better than him by a pretty decent margin, they deserved those MVP's Jordan did not.

 

[got shoes]

Originally Posted by itsaboutthattime

how chris paul is not in everyone's top 5 is beyond me..


i get rose

i get howard

i get that KD/westbrook will cancel each other out

i even get james


but seriously, dude is doing it on 1 leg with that team in the west (currently 42-32)

i wouldn't consider CP3 because he hasn't been consistent. his team got off to a good start, then they tanked and he got hurt and slumped off a little bit. secondly his team is not even in the top 10 in the league.

 

[got shoes]

Originally Posted by itsaboutthattime

how chris paul is not in everyone's top 5 is beyond me..


i get rose

i get howard

i get that KD/westbrook will cancel each other out

i even get james


but seriously, dude is doing it on 1 leg with that team in the west (currently 42-32)

i wouldn't consider CP3 because he hasn't been consistent. his team got off to a good start, then they tanked and he got hurt and slumped off a little bit. secondly his team is not even in the top 10 in the league.

 

[MVP]

Blah blah blah...if Bron is so valuable how in the blue hell is the team he's on now with two other stars next to him now going to have a worse regular season record that the squad he had that was full of a bunch off bums as everyone says on here. He has D-Wade who had just as song of a case as he does, cone on.

All that other trash is just fodder that LBJ brought on himself with his actions over the summer. He turned a lot of people off, but his impact on the court is still what it always was. It's not as big as Rose's on the league this year.

And you know it's never all about stats cause a lot of people who won MVP wouldn't have got it. Bron won the past two seasons because he was carrying that squad of misfits and being the great talent that he has always been. Not the case this season.

 

[MVP]

Blah blah blah...if Bron is so valuable how in the blue hell is the team he's on now with two other stars next to him now going to have a worse regular season record that the squad he had that was full of a bunch off bums as everyone says on here. He has D-Wade who had just as song of a case as he does, cone on.

All that other trash is just fodder that LBJ brought on himself with his actions over the summer. He turned a lot of people off, but his impact on the court is still what it always was. It's not as big as Rose's on the league this year.

And you know it's never all about stats cause a lot of people who won MVP wouldn't have got it. Bron won the past two seasons because he was carrying that squad of misfits and being the great talent that he has always been. Not the case this season.

 

[everysingletime]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh



This isn't the offensive MVP award, we are all aware D. Rose has had to carry them on offense for a while, that's great, but that's only half the game.

3) Our coach who is responsible for that defensive system has gone on record countless times to state that if it weren't for Derrick Rose we would not be winning games regardless of how great our defense is.  People want to point to our defense our defense and totally ignore that you have to score the ball as well in order to win games.  If you can hold a team to 83 but can't score 84 it means absolutely nothing.  They also don't talk about how much his defense has improved either ie he's pretty much been controlling top PG's since Batum made that comment about him not being able to guard Andre Miller.

Whats the coach gunna say? It's all me, !%@% D. Rose? cmon man.

Defense is more important that offense when it comes to winning chips, this is fact, no team without a top 7 defense has ever one a chip. His defense has improved from laughable to mediocre. Horray for him, lets throw a parade, im not sure why we have to give him an MVP award.

4) Mike was the best player from bar none from 88 until he retired... yet he still missed out on a couple namely Barkley & Malone's.
I have said this before on NT but those years Barkley and Malone were playing better than him by a pretty decent margin, they deserved those MVP's Jordan did not.



Ohh this is what your argument has come down to now, eh? 

But when Nash was winnning MVP's quarterbacking the "best offense ever" you were singing a much different tune. 

For the record Rose is already a better defensive player than Nash will ever be.  FACT. 

 

[everysingletime]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh



This isn't the offensive MVP award, we are all aware D. Rose has had to carry them on offense for a while, that's great, but that's only half the game.

3) Our coach who is responsible for that defensive system has gone on record countless times to state that if it weren't for Derrick Rose we would not be winning games regardless of how great our defense is.  People want to point to our defense our defense and totally ignore that you have to score the ball as well in order to win games.  If you can hold a team to 83 but can't score 84 it means absolutely nothing.  They also don't talk about how much his defense has improved either ie he's pretty much been controlling top PG's since Batum made that comment about him not being able to guard Andre Miller.

Whats the coach gunna say? It's all me, !%@% D. Rose? cmon man.

Defense is more important that offense when it comes to winning chips, this is fact, no team without a top 7 defense has ever one a chip. His defense has improved from laughable to mediocre. Horray for him, lets throw a parade, im not sure why we have to give him an MVP award.

4) Mike was the best player from bar none from 88 until he retired... yet he still missed out on a couple namely Barkley & Malone's.
I have said this before on NT but those years Barkley and Malone were playing better than him by a pretty decent margin, they deserved those MVP's Jordan did not.



Ohh this is what your argument has come down to now, eh? 

But when Nash was winnning MVP's quarterbacking the "best offense ever" you were singing a much different tune. 

For the record Rose is already a better defensive player than Nash will ever be.  FACT. 

 

[streethoopkilla]

never knew MVP was such a sensitive topic

 

[streethoopkilla]

never knew MVP was such a sensitive topic

 

[proshares]

It's so stupid and pointless to argue this kinda @@$+ on here because you have both sides presenting facts but refusing to acknowledge that the other side might have a point.

Then you have the extreme fanboys who type in caps and use emoticons to get their point across. Or the elitists that just use one liners saying how everyone is just dumb if you're not picking Rose.

 

[proshares]

It's so stupid and pointless to argue this kinda @@$+ on here because you have both sides presenting facts but refusing to acknowledge that the other side might have a point.

Then you have the extreme fanboys who type in caps and use emoticons to get their point across. Or the elitists that just use one liners saying how everyone is just dumb if you're not picking Rose.

 

[streethoopkilla]

Originally Posted by Proshares

It's so stupid and pointless to argue this kinda @@$+ on here because you have both sides presenting facts but refusing to acknowledge that the other side might have a point.

Then you have the extreme fanboys who type in caps and use emoticons to get their point across. Or the elitists that just use one liners saying how everyone is just dumb if you're not picking Rose.

Basically. I dont mind if Rose wins he has given a hell of a season with his stats and way of play. Im just saying the race isnt that much wider and the media has had a impact on this BUT it is not taking away from what he has done
  

 

[streethoopkilla]

Originally Posted by Proshares

It's so stupid and pointless to argue this kinda @@$+ on here because you have both sides presenting facts but refusing to acknowledge that the other side might have a point.

Then you have the extreme fanboys who type in caps and use emoticons to get their point across. Or the elitists that just use one liners saying how everyone is just dumb if you're not picking Rose.

Basically. I dont mind if Rose wins he has given a hell of a season with his stats and way of play. Im just saying the race isnt that much wider and the media has had a impact on this BUT it is not taking away from what he has done
  

 

[seymore cake]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Kurt Thomas is an awesome role player, his defense has been great this year, he's just useless on offense. It's becoming clear are only looking at your teams offense capabilities and ignore defense. Taj is a really good player as well, his 7'6 wing span probably contribute to that vaunted defense of yours.

Evans Bogans (i'm going to assume you're talking about Keith) is the only who you guys should have beef with because his defense is not good enough to offset his terrible offense.

This isn't the offensive MVP award, we are all aware D. Rose has had to carry them on offense for a while, that's great, but that's only half the game.

3) Our coach who is responsible for that defensive system has gone on record countless times to state that if it weren't for Derrick Rose we would not be winning games regardless of how great our defense is.  People want to point to our defense our defense and totally ignore that you have to score the ball as well in order to win games.  If you can hold a team to 83 but can't score 84 it means absolutely nothing.  They also don't talk about how much his defense has improved either ie he's pretty much been controlling top PG's since Batum made that comment about him not being able to guard Andre Miller.

Whats the coach gunna say? It's all me, !%@% D. Rose? cmon man.

Defense is more important that offense when it comes to winning chips, this is fact, no team without a top 7 defense has ever one a chip. His defense has improved from laughable to mediocre. Horray for him, lets throw a parade, im not sure why we have to give him an MVP award.


There's no need for me to speak on our Defense, we have the best defense in the league its well documented and has been well discussed by you and a few others.  You made the statement that Dwight does more with less and I don't see that.  It has nothing to do with who has the bigger names its about talent.

So are Orlando's supporting cast under performing? YES
Are they less talented... I can't say the same.

The players on our team fit our system and have performed well in it that's all it doesn't mean he has more to work with. But yes I will give you that Gilbert has played like trash.