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i hate cj watson as the bulls back up pg,,,smh
2011 NBA MVP Thread
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by CP1708,
- Start date
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I though you meant #2 as in second option opposed to 2-guard my bad...But regardless Korver/Brewer/Bogans are all great at what they do...Always loved Brewer defensively, Korver shoots and to Bogans is great at getting everybody to wonder why the **$+ he is on the floor. Yea, it is there weakest position, no problem with that statement.
As as for Dwight dominating mediocre centers your right, but part of my problem with Rose then is I don't think he is really playing head and shoulders above the other elite point guards this year, I'm sure D.Will would love to be in a position where he could shoot 20 times and not play D and still win games...
As as for Dwight dominating mediocre centers your right, but part of my problem with Rose then is I don't think he is really playing head and shoulders above the other elite point guards this year, I'm sure D.Will would love to be in a position where he could shoot 20 times and not play D and still win games...
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I though you meant #2 as in second option opposed to 2-guard my bad...But regardless Korver/Brewer/Bogans are all great at what they do...Always loved Brewer defensively, Korver shoots and to Bogans is great at getting everybody to wonder why the **$+ he is on the floor. Yea, it is there weakest position, no problem with that statement.
As as for Dwight dominating mediocre centers your right, but part of my problem with Rose then is I don't think he is really playing head and shoulders above the other elite point guards this year, I'm sure D.Will would love to be in a position where he could shoot 20 times and not play D and still win games...
As as for Dwight dominating mediocre centers your right, but part of my problem with Rose then is I don't think he is really playing head and shoulders above the other elite point guards this year, I'm sure D.Will would love to be in a position where he could shoot 20 times and not play D and still win games...
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Ronnie Brewer is excellent defensively. When iso'd against, he's only allowing a 28.6 FG% mark. Overall, he's only allowing a 33.6% against him, and only .76 points per possession. One of the best marks in the league this season.
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Ronnie Brewer is excellent defensively. When iso'd against, he's only allowing a 28.6 FG% mark. Overall, he's only allowing a 33.6% against him, and only .76 points per possession. One of the best marks in the league this season.
abovelegit1 wrote:
Yes, I believe an MVP should be able to come from a 4th seed, as long as that team has over 50 wins. Again, I don't really follow the dogmatic thinking of the masses. And I like how you're implying that Dwight shouldn't be the leading candidate because he's taken out of the game for two or three offensive possesions, in the 1/4 games that necessitate such strategy as intentionally fouling. But in the 1/2 games where Rose takes 25 shots to get 25 points he's not a liability, right?
Dwight is a center. He essentially anchors the defense. So when terrible defenders with limited lateral quickness like Turkoglu, Richardson, and Nelson get beat off the dribble, who's the only line of the defense remaining? Despite being on a team of stiffs, Dwights help defense is so great that the Magic are one of the best defensive teams in the league. Not to mention the fact that he gets doubled and fronted more than EVERY other player in the league.
Hey, no hate from me, I have Dwight at 2, so it's not like I don't like the kid or anything, he's gonna be great for us next season.
He certainly is dominant defensively, and he's this era's version of Shaq. Great for most of the game, has to stay away from the ball (or even pulled out of the game) late so to avoid having to shoot free throws, gets fouled a ton, etc etc etc. He just doesn't have Shaq's offensive game just yet, but he has improved.
I don't buy into the 25 shots, 25 points liability stuff. Call me crazy, D Rose is the Bulls best option in terms of creating shots, and he makes a good enough amount. He's not a 50% guy by any means, but I dunno if I would put him on AI's level either ya know? And Allen did also win MVP, and that was over........Shaq.
I don't make the rules. I don't even agree with how the voting is done. I've said this for years. It's one of the reasons I spoke out on Nash winning the award. Somebody who makes 6 out of 11 shots, and a couple free throws for 16 points, and gets 10 assists, is not so mind blowingly different to me as a guy that gets 24 and 8 shooting 10-22. If the 6 for 11 is so great, then he should be shooting more, especially since he's "so efficient"
You also still have not spoken on where credit is due to a team that lost both Noah and Boozer for 25 games EACH and still reside at the 2 seed currently. That credit goes to........?
AMP, I hear ya that they do their job as the SG, but tell me a Bulls fan/player/media member wouldn't want an upgrade in a second.I don't think it's far fetched to say that if the Bulls had a solid scoring SG Rose could take less shots, and pass more, and maybe be more efficent, but at this time, they do not have that luxury, he has to do anything he can to create shots from the perimeter, and he had to do it for 50+ games without one of his interior guys. I'm wondering why that gets so overlooked. There has to be a formula to show it to people, right?
abovelegit1 wrote:
Yes, I believe an MVP should be able to come from a 4th seed, as long as that team has over 50 wins. Again, I don't really follow the dogmatic thinking of the masses. And I like how you're implying that Dwight shouldn't be the leading candidate because he's taken out of the game for two or three offensive possesions, in the 1/4 games that necessitate such strategy as intentionally fouling. But in the 1/2 games where Rose takes 25 shots to get 25 points he's not a liability, right?
Dwight is a center. He essentially anchors the defense. So when terrible defenders with limited lateral quickness like Turkoglu, Richardson, and Nelson get beat off the dribble, who's the only line of the defense remaining? Despite being on a team of stiffs, Dwights help defense is so great that the Magic are one of the best defensive teams in the league. Not to mention the fact that he gets doubled and fronted more than EVERY other player in the league.
Hey, no hate from me, I have Dwight at 2, so it's not like I don't like the kid or anything, he's gonna be great for us next season.
He certainly is dominant defensively, and he's this era's version of Shaq. Great for most of the game, has to stay away from the ball (or even pulled out of the game) late so to avoid having to shoot free throws, gets fouled a ton, etc etc etc. He just doesn't have Shaq's offensive game just yet, but he has improved.
I don't buy into the 25 shots, 25 points liability stuff. Call me crazy, D Rose is the Bulls best option in terms of creating shots, and he makes a good enough amount. He's not a 50% guy by any means, but I dunno if I would put him on AI's level either ya know? And Allen did also win MVP, and that was over........Shaq.
I don't make the rules. I don't even agree with how the voting is done. I've said this for years. It's one of the reasons I spoke out on Nash winning the award. Somebody who makes 6 out of 11 shots, and a couple free throws for 16 points, and gets 10 assists, is not so mind blowingly different to me as a guy that gets 24 and 8 shooting 10-22. If the 6 for 11 is so great, then he should be shooting more, especially since he's "so efficient"
You also still have not spoken on where credit is due to a team that lost both Noah and Boozer for 25 games EACH and still reside at the 2 seed currently. That credit goes to........?
AMP, I hear ya that they do their job as the SG, but tell me a Bulls fan/player/media member wouldn't want an upgrade in a second.I don't think it's far fetched to say that if the Bulls had a solid scoring SG Rose could take less shots, and pass more, and maybe be more efficent, but at this time, they do not have that luxury, he has to do anything he can to create shots from the perimeter, and he had to do it for 50+ games without one of his interior guys. I'm wondering why that gets so overlooked. There has to be a formula to show it to people, right?
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I think people in general are pointing at Derrick Rose as the reason the Bulls are much better this year than last....when they should be pointing at Tom Thibodeau and the defense he has installed with the Bulls. People look at Ronnie Brewer and see the minimal amounts he gives the team on offense, and think he isnt a good player. Yet what you just posted is a perfect example of why the Bulls are succeeding this year.
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I think people in general are pointing at Derrick Rose as the reason the Bulls are much better this year than last....when they should be pointing at Tom Thibodeau and the defense he has installed with the Bulls. People look at Ronnie Brewer and see the minimal amounts he gives the team on offense, and think he isnt a good player. Yet what you just posted is a perfect example of why the Bulls are succeeding this year.
|A-Man|
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You're really trying to bring up his technical foul situation as a reason why he's not MVP? Like he isn't the most fouled player in the league? Many fouls going uncalled?
Does Rose have to go through that? You can't be serious if this is really any part of your argument for why Dwight isn't MVP. As if he's Rasheed Wallace and has missed several games due to techs.
|A-Man|
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You're really trying to bring up his technical foul situation as a reason why he's not MVP? Like he isn't the most fouled player in the league? Many fouls going uncalled?
Does Rose have to go through that? You can't be serious if this is really any part of your argument for why Dwight isn't MVP. As if he's Rasheed Wallace and has missed several games due to techs.
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Agreed wholeheartedly. Tom Thibodeau has coached his defensive units to consistent excellence, whether he was with the Knicks in the 90s, the Rockets under Van Gundy, the Celtics, and now the Bulls. He deserves a ton of credit, as his defensive system is ridiculously effective.
As for Derrick Rose being less efficient offensively because of his two guards, that is BS. He is less efficient because the quality and volume of his shots are less than ideal. Again, we're basically splitting hairs here, this is relative to other MVP candidates.
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Agreed wholeheartedly. Tom Thibodeau has coached his defensive units to consistent excellence, whether he was with the Knicks in the 90s, the Rockets under Van Gundy, the Celtics, and now the Bulls. He deserves a ton of credit, as his defensive system is ridiculously effective.
As for Derrick Rose being less efficient offensively because of his two guards, that is BS. He is less efficient because the quality and volume of his shots are less than ideal. Again, we're basically splitting hairs here, this is relative to other MVP candidates.
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If the Bulls had a "legit" starting SG, Bulls fans wouldn't be able to use Bogans as prime example of the garbage on the Bulls besides Rose. Lol.
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If the Bulls had a "legit" starting SG, Bulls fans wouldn't be able to use Bogans as prime example of the garbage on the Bulls besides Rose. Lol.
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I would vote for Howard, as of today. And win shares is just ONE such metric measuring value, as I said.
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I would vote for Howard, as of today. And win shares is just ONE such metric measuring value, as I said.
arstyle27
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Derrick Rose all the way.
arstyle27
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Derrick Rose all the way.
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rose
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rose
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MVP MVP MVP!
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MVP MVP MVP!
From Mark Stein
EAST MVP OF THE SECOND TRIMESTER
Derrick Rose, Chicago Bulls
Rose
Didn't the Eastern Conference coaches already decide this one for us? Doesn't the fact that Chicago finds itself still alive for the East's top seed -- after Carlos Boozer (1and Joakim Noah (31) both lost a mess of games to injury and only Rose represented the Bulls in the All-Star Game -- clinch D-Rose as the East's best heading into the season's final third?
Of course not.
Surely by now you know that pretty much nothing in this league is as polarizing as an MVP debate. The latest evidence is the rising chorus you hear these days from folks seemingly straining to list all the reasons why Rose shouldn't be the MVP. You might have expected the opposite since the Rose-led Bulls have overcome their injuries, youth and newness as a group to hang with the Celtics and Heat for 60 games. But you'll see a new labor deal before you see widespread MVP agreement at this stage of the season. It's the NBA way.
That's partly because MVP is not a clearly defined award, true, but I know my definition. I forever want to give it to the guy who's having the best season, which I calculate by factoring in team success relative to preseason expectations in conjunction with the individual numbers and my own subjective impressions to break deadlocks.
Using those guidelines, I have zero hesitation presenting Rose as the MVP front-runner at this juncture, even as I'm forced to acknowledge that two individual powerhouses in his conference -- LeBron James and Dwight Howard -- can legitimately claim to be playing at higher levels of efficiency than Rose on teams essentially right there with the Bulls in the standings.
I simply can't overlook Rose's long stretches without one of his top two teammates ... or the fact that the Bulls have been starting a shooting guard (Keith Bogans) who averages 3.9 points per game ... or how Rose has become a better finisher (and foul magnet) at the bucket while also stepping up to drain 87 triples this season after hitting just 32 3-pointers in his first two NBA seasons combined.
On this scorecard, Rose is having a better season so far than James, Howard and anyone else you want to nominate from the West. I certainly can't dispute that Chicago's defense, as orchestrated by rookie head coach Tom Thibodeau and stabilized by the ageless Kurt Thomas when Noah went down, is as important to the Bulls' fortunes as Rose's increasingly versatile O. But I also know that there's no stat to measure the intangible impact Rose has had in keeping the Bulls' self-belief at an elite level no matter which of their All-Star-caliber big men was out.
LeBron thus has to settle for second here, tempting as it is to conclude that he deserves to be No. 1 among East MVP candidates when you factor in the historic collapse of his old team in Cleveland -- no team has ever gone from the league's best record to the worst in one season like the Cavs are threatening -- along with how much he's done to raise Miami's ceiling.
From Mark Stein
EAST MVP OF THE SECOND TRIMESTER
Derrick Rose, Chicago Bulls
Rose
Didn't the Eastern Conference coaches already decide this one for us? Doesn't the fact that Chicago finds itself still alive for the East's top seed -- after Carlos Boozer (1
Of course not.
Surely by now you know that pretty much nothing in this league is as polarizing as an MVP debate. The latest evidence is the rising chorus you hear these days from folks seemingly straining to list all the reasons why Rose shouldn't be the MVP. You might have expected the opposite since the Rose-led Bulls have overcome their injuries, youth and newness as a group to hang with the Celtics and Heat for 60 games. But you'll see a new labor deal before you see widespread MVP agreement at this stage of the season. It's the NBA way.
That's partly because MVP is not a clearly defined award, true, but I know my definition. I forever want to give it to the guy who's having the best season, which I calculate by factoring in team success relative to preseason expectations in conjunction with the individual numbers and my own subjective impressions to break deadlocks.
Using those guidelines, I have zero hesitation presenting Rose as the MVP front-runner at this juncture, even as I'm forced to acknowledge that two individual powerhouses in his conference -- LeBron James and Dwight Howard -- can legitimately claim to be playing at higher levels of efficiency than Rose on teams essentially right there with the Bulls in the standings.
I simply can't overlook Rose's long stretches without one of his top two teammates ... or the fact that the Bulls have been starting a shooting guard (Keith Bogans) who averages 3.9 points per game ... or how Rose has become a better finisher (and foul magnet) at the bucket while also stepping up to drain 87 triples this season after hitting just 32 3-pointers in his first two NBA seasons combined.
On this scorecard, Rose is having a better season so far than James, Howard and anyone else you want to nominate from the West. I certainly can't dispute that Chicago's defense, as orchestrated by rookie head coach Tom Thibodeau and stabilized by the ageless Kurt Thomas when Noah went down, is as important to the Bulls' fortunes as Rose's increasingly versatile O. But I also know that there's no stat to measure the intangible impact Rose has had in keeping the Bulls' self-belief at an elite level no matter which of their All-Star-caliber big men was out.
LeBron thus has to settle for second here, tempting as it is to conclude that he deserves to be No. 1 among East MVP candidates when you factor in the historic collapse of his old team in Cleveland -- no team has ever gone from the league's best record to the worst in one season like the Cavs are threatening -- along with how much he's done to raise Miami's ceiling.