**2012-13 "Gentlemanly" NBA PG Discussion Thread**

[pmatic]

at Lowry being below Conley.

Rondo is such an inefficient shooter, that's what holds him (and the Celtics) back. Unique player though, probably in the 4-5-6 range.

 

[bhzmafia14]

Who's a better floor general? Who makes better decisions?

Am I missing something? How are we defining PG's now? Are we ranking players higher on who's the most erratic?

 

[maxelite]

I'm confused by what you mean by this...

Rondo might run an offense and manage a game better than say Tony Parker or DRose or Westbrook. Not might actually, he DOES run a team better than those 3.

But I'm still taking those 3 guys over him because I just think they are better overall basketball players in my opinion.

 

[jjs07]

Y'all really think if you switched Russ and CP3 the difference in team play or ranking would be much different? Cause I don't...When Rose is healthy, CP3 is leagues above him? CP3 was mediocre in the playoffs last year, I agree in terms of pure PG he';s the best but that's just a very shallow lens to look at a player through..

Yes. Paul is the superior player. IMO, it's not really all that close. Also, let's not pretend like Derrick Rose didn't have a mediocre playoff run in 2011. If we're going to hold Paul accountable for being sub-par in the 2012 postseason, then we should set the same standard for Rose as well.

I brought this up before - and trust me...it's not a knock on Rose because he's a damn good talent, but is there much difference between his game right now and Stephon Marbury in his prime?

 

[bhzmafia14]

I just think people define the position differently.

 

[wavy bone]

Yes. Paul is the superior player. IMO, it's not really all that close. Also, let's not pretend like Derrick Rose didn't have a mediocre playoff run in 2011. If we're going to hold Paul accountable for being sub-par in the 2012 postseason, then we should set the same standard for Rose as well.
I brought this up before - and trust me...it's not a knock on Rose because he's a damn good talent, but is there much difference between his game right now and Stephon Marbury in his prime?

This is disrespectful

He literally carries that team.

 

[proshares]

I bet Mike Conley solidifies himself as a top 10 PG this season.

I am disappoint, I expected this first reply

Am I the only one who dropped Deron a little for his comments about not playing hard when they're losing? That kinda talk always rubs me the wrong way.

I'll be proven wrong this year but I'll still put Nash near the bottom of the top 5.

CP3, Rondo, Parker, Russ & Deron? IDK.

 

[al3xis]

Yes. Paul is the superior player. IMO, it's not really all that close. Also, let's not pretend like Derrick Rose didn't have a mediocre playoff run in 2011. If we're going to hold Paul accountable for being sub-par in the 2012 postseason, then we should set the same standard for Rose as well.
I brought this up before - and trust me...it's not a knock on Rose because he's a damn good talent, but is there much difference between his game right now and Stephon Marbury in his prime?

That standard was definitely set for Rose though. I never heard much criticism going Paul's way when he had some lousy performances.

 

[addict4sneakers]

Rondo is such an inefficient shooter, that's what holds him (and the Celtics) back. Unique player though, probably in the 4-5-6 range.

but he was the best Celtic in the playoffs last year. i seriously don't see how dudes can hold Rondo's lack of jumpshot against him. go under the screen and he'll find the open man. go over the top of the screen and he gets in the paint for either a layup.

he doesn't take bad shots.
he uses the space given to to survey the court.
his teammates eat.

name another PG that is a triple double threat every night?



Rondo is top 5 regardless of position

 

[proshares]

The only knock I have on Rondo (besides his shooting obviously) is that he should play that way the entire season, not just on national TV or to start the playoffs. He has that kind of talent to dominate every game.

 

[Clyde Frog]

I don't like to consider these slashing point guards like Rose and Westbrook even point guards. They just happen to be put at that position. They play the Point Gaurd position about as well as Dwyane Wade would if you stuck him there which you could do.

Point Gaurds are supposed to direct the team, call the shots, control the ball, and score when needed.

Rose and Westbrook have flaws if they want to be considered a Point Gaurd. They are scoring Gaurds aka shooting gaurds. Like I said they just happen to be put at the point position. If it were up to me I wouldn't even put them in the PG discussion but they're known as PG's so they wills be in the discussion.

Take them out and I'd bump Parker and Nash right up there with the real point gaurds like rondo d-will and CP3.

I have a feeling some ppl will take this the wrong way. Obviously Rose and Russell are very talented players. They just simply don't fit the Point Gaurd description fully. There really shouldn't be more than one Point Gaurd description.

 

[jjs07]

This is disrespectful
He literally carries that team.

I'm going to be curious to see how the Bulls will fare in his absence. Personally, I think they'll still be in the thick of the playoff hunt when he returns. Rose is the goods...but maybe we're not giving the supporting cast enough credit? Going to be an interesting first couple of months of the season

That standard was definitely set for Rose though. I never heard much criticism going Paul's way when he had some lousy performances.

Fair enough...

Curious as to your take on Rondo. IMO, he's the best Celtic and has solidified himself as a top-3 (at worst) talent at the 1. He's proven that he can will his team to victory - even with his sub-par shooting.

 

[wavy bone]

I don't like to consider these slashing point guards like Rose and Westbrook even point guards. They just happen to be put at that position. They play the Point Gaurd position about as well as Dwyane Wade would if you stuck him there which you could do.
Point Gaurds are supposed to direct the team, call the shots, control the ball, and score when needed.
Rose and Westbrook have flaws if they want to be considered a Point Gaurd. They are scoring Gaurds aka shooting gaurds. Like I said they just happen to be put at the point position. If it were up to me I wouldn't even put them in the PG discussion but they're known as PG's so they wills be in the discussion.
Take them out and I'd bump Parker and Nash right up there with the real point gaurds like rondo d-will and CP3.
I have a feeling some ppl will take this the wrong way. Obviously Rose and Russell are very talented players. They just simply don't fit the Point Gaurd description fully. There really shouldn't be more than one Point Gaurd description.

What are you basing this on?

Tony Parker's career high avg in assists is a little over 7 and a half. Rose's is right above that...so what makes him a real point and not Rose?


You dudes are killing me.

 

[al3xis]

Rondo is a monster. He's been one of my 3 favorite players for a while now. I thought he was a Top 5 PG after '09.

Why do you have to be 'traditional'? We don't evaluate big men like that. Dirk is/was not Kevin McHale, but they both were equally effective in getting a job done. If Russ and Rose we're on 30 win teams, I could see the point - but they've had as much team success as any of these guys the last 2 years. Westbrook puts as much pressure on a defense as anyone in the league, granted he can make some mistakes but he's always impacting a game with his athleticism and skill set. Same with Rose.

 

[Chester McFloppy]

I bet Mike Conley solidifies himself as a top 10 PG this season.

Of course you do.

 

[jo3y k]

magic johnson is widely considered the greatest pg of all time, and he didn't have a jump shot [developed a set shot late in his career, but still]...john stockton wasn't known for his shooting...rondo is knocked for not having an outside shot because players like d-rose and russ redefined our expectations...if rondo played point in the 80s or 90s, it wouldn't be hard to imagine that he'd be considered one of the all-time greats at his position, but nowadays people think point guards need to be scoring 20+ ppg and getting highlight reel dunks

 

[proshares]

APG doesn't tell the whole tale at PG.

 

[maxelite]

This might sound like im hating on him ( I probably am ), but honestly if you take the pick and roll away from CP3, honestly how effective is he?

I know the same thing could be said about Nash, but i mean i look at guys like DWill, Rose & Westbrook who can still dominate without starting a set with a high ball screen.

 

[wavy bone]

APG doesn't tell the whole tale at PG.

They certainly tell a big part of it tho. I'm just waiting to hear what makes Rose a "scoring point" and not Parker.

 

[proshares]

IDK where to put Rose TBH, that's why I left him off completely. He's top 5 in recess to me I guess.

 

[worldbeefreeg]

This is disrespectful
He literally carries that team.

Yea, JJ's you must of switched up the wrong HGH prescription cause Rose in 2011 ain't comparable to Clips gettingmollywhopped out the 2nd round and him not doing **** all Grizz series.


And according to Synergry Rondo was basically the best defender in the league last year at his position. For all of his shooting problems, everything else he brings to the table far outweighs his lack of a jumper.

 

[worldbeefreeg]

Y'all get so caught up in the Pure PG BS...And that's what it is BS. In college/HS having that is neccesary but in the NBA that just isn't the case.

Chris Paul hasn't been the same since his knee injury, how he is viewed now is far more myth than fact.

 

[bigmike23]

I just think people define the position differently.

it doesnt matter which way people define it. Mike Conley is not even close to top 10. and like someone else said nobody is a pure PG anymore. you have scoring PG and point fowards now of days running a offense.

I can't wait to see what Jrue Holiday and Darren Collison can do after them both having a bit of experience under their belts, and both now having full control of starting positions.

DC is who he is. i hope u dont expect some huge jump from him. Jrue is also people starting to expect to much from him

how can yall knock rondo for his jump shot but dont mention anything about parker and his horrible defense? most of the guys in your top 5 can play both sides of the floor expect TP

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Pure point guards are horribly overrated in today's NBA.

 

[pmatic]

[quote name=Addict4Sneakers" 93/2012-13-gentlemanly-nba-pg-discussion-thread/40_20#post_16458411"]
but he was the best Celtic in the playoffs last year. i seriously don't see how dudes can hold Rondo's lack of jumpshot against him. go under the screen and he'll find the open man. go over the top of the screen and he gets in the paint for either a layup.
he doesn't take bad shots.
he uses the space given to to survey the court.
his teammates eat.
name another PG that is a triple double threat every night?

Rondo is top 5 regardless of position[/quote]
His positives outweigh his negatives, but you can't ignore he's an inefficent shooter/scorer and Boston has a middling team offense (he's not completely responsible for this though). But like I said, a truly unique player.