**2012-13 "Gentlemanly" NBA PG Discussion Thread**

Rondo is the straw that stirs the drink in Boston. It's been that way for the better part of the past couple of seasons. I agree w/ WorldB in that the whole "talent around" him piece gets WAY overblown. If you can't see that Rondo gets these guys in prime position to score and get easy buckets, then I don't know what to tell you. He's a true facilitator in every sense of the word. You can EASILY make the case for him being the best PG in the league. Jason Kidd dominated for many years without having a reliable J...Rondo is no different. He can beat you in a number of ways.
 
Seymore CAKE said:
I don't want anyone to get me confused... Rajon is one of my favorite players in the L today, Hell I have him ranked # 1 right now bc I don't know where Pooh is..
But I just can't see how someone can say that he's WAY better than or leaps and bounds ahead of Pooh. I can see someone choosing him over Pooh and vice versa but to make the former statement just seems way out there to me. Same with Russy, I don't feel as though Pooh is leaps and bounds ahead of Russy, I just think that they're in different situations, and it depends on what you need depends on who you align yourself with.
Its like the Chris v Deron debate. You can't be mad or disappointed in anyone going either way, but to say one is just head and shoulders over the other well... You're On WATER.
These 5 guys are clearly the A Class now the order you rank them in that's based upon your preference and I can't be mad at where you place anyone of them.
I'd rather talk about the 2nd Tier: The Up & Comers: Kyrie, Jrue, John, Dragic, Conley... These are much more interesting debates imo.
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Underrated, IMO.

Out of curiosity, how would you rank the 2nd tier guys?

Also, do you think the expectations for Kyrie are the same going into his 2nd year as they were for Wall at the same time? Both had RIDICULOUS rookie seasons (Wall would have won ROY if Blake didn't redshirt)...I've been saying for a while it's hard for me to put Wall over Irving or Irving over Wall. It's a push to me. THis year will prove a lot as far as whether or not Irving will hit a sophomore slump or if Wall can take the next step in his development.
 
jo3y k said:
magic johnson is widely considered the greatest pg of all time, and he didn't have a jump shot [developed a set shot late in his career, but still]...john stockton wasn't known for his shooting...rondo is knocked for not having an outside shot because players like d-rose and russ redefined our expectations...if rondo played point in the 80s or 90s, it wouldn't be hard to imagine that he'd be considered one of the all-time greats at his position, but nowadays people think point guards need to be scoring 20+ ppg and getting highlight reel dunks
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You are disqualified from further discussion in this thread. Even if you think Stockton's shot was lucky in G6 of the WCF that sent them to the Finals, Stockton was an elite shooter in the NBA, not just for PGs. Forget all this "decent shooter, not a great shooter," crap. John Stockton was THE elite shooting PG before Steve Nash was around. Come on now yall. How you let this slide? John Stockton wasn't known for his shooting?!

Career 51/38/83% shooter? Get out of here with he wasn't known for his shooting... :smh: Mid-range, under the rim, from deep, John had it. Name how many 51/38 back-court players you seen. Jordan? Nope. Kobe? Nope. Ray Allen? Nope. Reggie? Nope. Magic Johnson? Nope. Steve Nash? Nope.

Some of those guys were better 3PT shooters, but none shot 51% from the field. Or vice versa. But still, the point being that John Stockton was an elite shooter.
 
ColdCity said:
i thought they were one in the same also.......
regardless fam but be on water thinking what he said is true.... glass ....srs.....Stop it lil guy
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Lmaoo me and Finns ? Yall are bugging :lol: :lol:

Mods can confirm.

And imma just wait to see how D Rose looks when he comes back to speak on him any further. Yes dude has had a decorated career thus far and is a beast but none of us know how hes going to perform moving forward. But i know for sure Rondo is healthy and ready to contend for a title.
 
JJs07 said:
Underrated, IMO.
Out of curiosity, how would you rank the 2nd tier guys?
Also, do you think the expectations for Kyrie are the same going into his 2nd year as they were for Wall at the same time? Both had RIDICULOUS rookie seasons (Wall would have won ROY if Blake didn't redshirt)...I've been saying for a while it's hard for me to put Wall over Irving or Irving over Wall. It's a push to me. THis year will prove a lot as far as whether or not Irving will hit a sophomore slump or if Wall can take the next step in his development.
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I don't see Kyrie slumping as much as John Wall did. Kyrie is a much more efficient scorer/shooter, and that's what really had Wall struggling so much. John Wall had a ridiculously great first 2 months of the season back in 10-11, but even then he still averaged just 2:1 ATO in his first two years.

Kyrie hasn't shown the CP3/Rondo/Wall ability to rack up assists yet, but after his first year I feel a lot better about his direction than I do about John Wall. He shot better. He scored better. He had some really clutch moments against really good teams. He's composed. He doesn't turn the ball over as much.

I don't think John Wall will struggle as much going forward, but he still has a lot to prove. I feel like Kyrie is ahead of John. Both were working with very little, but I just felt like when I watched Kyrie play, he was controlling games better than John Wall did.

Not to mention, John Wall got his Russell Westbrook on last year in terms of turnovers.

Here's a stat: Russell Westbrook and Kevin Durant were 2nd and 3rd in turnovers last year. I'll let you guess which one was 2nd.
 
Rondo will have his best season this year. Been way too many possessions where hes just waiting for Ray Allen to get open. He had to get Ray enough touches, who really wasnt helping the team by the latter of his Celtics tenure. Rondo got crazy game but IMO hes still second to CP3, and theres nothing wrong with that.
 
I'll just throw a name out there to keep an eye on: Patty Mills.

Dumb fast with and without the ball, good shooter, gritty little dude. I wish he wouldn't have re-signed with the Spurs so he could get more minutes.

Oh, and E'Twaun Moore. I said this before, but he could either make you know who he is, or he could get cut. He's on a terrible team, he's 6'4" and he does a little bit of everything. Not a game-changer; just steady.
 
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CP1708 said:
So, CP3 is glass too with a single knee injury? :lol:
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Chris Paul isnt glass hes just chubby and soft :lol: Someone in here said CP3 hasnt been the same since the injury. Is it fair to say we can expect the same from D Rose? Im not sure but it wouldnt surprise me. Hes so explosive but how much longer can he rely on that explosiveness when its in the back of his mind he may get injured again?
 
Double... I have no clue right now...

Kyrie/John
Dragic/Jrue/Conley

I really can't call it right now... I just know that I can honestly see the first four having the ability to make a major jump ( Mike has too much to contend with in Rudy & Zack to make that type of leap)

It will be interesting to see how Kyrie does with everyone having a year to scout him... I was really disappointed by Wall's injury, even though he can make some really unintelligent decisions I want to believe it was the culture he found himself in. I still have high hopes for him.
 
The only thing stopping that Kyire from entering that elite group is injuries.

And in the second tier, I really want to see Steph healthy this year but Lawson is very underrated imo. That Denver team is going to be a problem this year.
 
worldbeefreeg said:
:lol: :lol: :lol: @ comparing Wall's rookie year to Kyrie's
Not comparable at alllllll, two different leagues.
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Shortened season aside what's so different about the seasons they had? I think you can make a case that Kyrie had a better rookie season than Wall's.

Hell I think you can make a case that Kyrie is a better basketball player right now.
 
JJs07 said:
Rondo is the straw that stirs the drink in Boston. It's been that way for the better part of the past couple of seasons. I agree w/ WorldB in that the whole "talent around" him piece gets WAY overblown. If you can't see that Rondo gets these guys in prime position to score and get easy buckets, then I don't know what to tell you. He's a true facilitator in every sense of the word. You can EASILY make the case for him being the best PG in the league. Jason Kidd dominated for many years without having a reliable J...Rondo is no different. He can beat you in a number of ways.
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thats true and a valid point. but do you really see rondo putting a avg team on his back like kidd did for many years?

do people take it overboard by saying rondo would be trash without the big 3? yeah but you cant say he doesnt benfit from them on his team. boston final runs happened when PP played 1 on 1 ball in the 4th and put boston on his back.
 
Also, I want to bring up something.

We always hear about Rajon Rondo and talk about his inefficient shooting. And I agree, he's a poor shooter. But yet we praise Rose and Russell, why?

There are spots on the floor where Rondo is absolutely terrible, I concede that fact. But let's look at where they all shoot overall.

Restricted Area: Rondo- 55%. Rose- 56%. Westbrook- 59%.
In the Paint (Non-RA): Rondo- 29%. Rose- 40%. Westbrook- 41%.
Mid-range: Rondo- 39%. Rose- 39%. Westbrook- 41%.
Corner-3: Rondo- 33%. Rose- 33%. Westbrook- 33%.
Outside Corner-3: Rondo- 22%. Rose- 32%. Westbrook- 32%.

Now take into consideration that Rondo takes ~40 3 pointers a year, while Rose and Russ take about 180-200.

They are all practically the same mid-range shooting. Russell takes an extremely large amount of mid-range jumpers, because it's efficient for him. He took 200 more than either guy, but only shot 2% better.

Deep in the paint, all are above 55%.

There's no excuse for Rondo's poor paint shooting %.

But still, numbers don't lie. Mid-range, there is marginal difference between Russ, Rondo, and Rose. In the restricted area, again, marginal difference.

Then taking into consideration their overall FG%, Rondo is about as good as the other two.

I just don't get why Rondo is always labeled as a poor shooter, while Rose and Westbrook get passes all the time.

(Stats were taken from the 2011-2012 season, better than the playoffs since it's a much larger sample size).
 
worldbeefreeg said:
:lol: :lol: :lol: @ comparing Wall's rookie year to Kyrie's
Not comparable at alllllll, two different leagues.
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Except looking at his stats, John Wall's stats were replicated in his second-year.

The only thing stopping that Kyire from entering that elite group is injuries.
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John Wall missed 16% of the games in his rookie season.

Kyrie Irving missed 33% of the games in his rookie season.

Both are healthy now. I don't see what you're stirring up.
 
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eye-test, Kyrie was just a much better player than John Wall. Better finisher, better shooter, better decision-maker, comparable talent around him. Kyrie Irving had a much better rookie year than John Wall. That's all I'm saying.
 
Bigmike23 said:
thats true and a valid point. but do you really see rondo putting a avg team on his back like kidd did for many years?

do people take it overboard by saying rondo would be trash without the big 3? yeah but you cant say he doesnt benfit from them on his team. boston final runs happened when PP played 1 on 1 ball in the 4th and put boston on his back.
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I don't want to misinterpret, but are you calling the Celtics an average team? IMO they are deep. Bass, Bradley, KG, Jeff Green, Courtney Lee, Darko, Pierce, Rondo, Sullinger, Terry, Wilcox. That's a deep team.

And honestly, Rondo is a more efficient scorer than Kidd ever was. Kidd, a career 40% shooter. Rondo, despite still having at least 10 years of good basketball in his legs, 48%.
 
The one guy you need to keep an eye on if he's healthy: Stephen Curry.

Excellent scorer. Excellent shooter. Great facilitator. Great playmaker. If he can put together a healthy year, yikes...
 
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