darthska
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Well then it's a tendency that I don't like.
And never, EVER will.
And never, EVER will.
2014-15 Lakers Season Thread (21-61) KAT
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by CP1708,
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whats the point in saying if kobe played like rondo or *insert pass first pg name here* he may or may not have been as successful?
im sure someone who works as hard as kobe and is as athletic/talented would find a way to be successful in a wide variety of playstyles/skillsets
are you not crediting his OTHER traits (hardwork, skill, ect..) for his success rather than his playstyle?
if that is the case then surely there have been a few players that do play like rondo that are just as skilled and work just as hard, why are they not nearly as successful as a guy like kobe or even wade?
i understand you're not going to change your opinion or like the way kobe plays basketball, but you imply that you would rather see him play like rondo. all im asking is some evidence that this rondo playstyle is anywhere near as effective as what kobe has done
if you cant do that then that nice paragraph you just wrote is meaningless
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[Magic] SEA MANUP IS BACK [Magic]
darthska
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See, then it goes to something else.
(and for any simple-minded dolts dense enough to call this switching up: don't. You're wrong, but if you want me to embarass you by showing you how, that's fine; just pay attention to the very next line)
If everything is equal in a comparison, compare something else.
If a chick is trying to date you, me, and some other dude, and all 3 of us make $84k a year, then she's going to have to compare other things (I'm Italian, so naturally, I'll win when it comes to that.
If 3 people could be labeled 'volume shooter', compare other things.
Has anyone complained about Lebron being a bad teammate? KD? Kobe? Have either of them been known to rip teammates?
How about being a center of attention, taking all the glory?
Lebron? No bad teammate accusations, but the glory hog thing applies to some degree. Worth noting that he didn't become a champion until he shared the spotlight, willingly. It wasn't "Lebron and blah, blah, blah." It was "The Big 3". Boom. Championships. And I'm not saying he WANTED all the attention in early Cleveland, but he definitely had it, and I think he basked in it at times. And at other times, he wished there was someone else to win a championship with, take some of the spotlight. There's something there regarding a winning formula.
KD? Has anyone ever accused of him of being a bad teammate? Or has he ever been a glory hog?
How about something else: competitiveness. This would be one where Kobe outshines both of them, methinks. As nice as KD is, and as great of a teammate as he apparently is, I don't get a competitive edge from him. If he ends his career with a bunch of highlights and no rings (Dominique Wilkins), I think he'd be cool w/ that. Kobe? Nnnnnnnnope. No way he was going to retire ringless. Lebron? Enh, sometimes I can sense it, but moreso, I get that HE gets how to play refs and opponents. Still works. Still has 5 Finals and 2 rings, but it's different. He's figured it out.
'S why I think AD is 'next'. Seems to be a good teammate, is CRAZY efficient, I can tell you from his UK days he does NOT like losing and is absolutely a student of the game.
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shoeking2101
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That's the thing, there are certain things about Kobe that I respect. You know it, I know it, and everyone who has paid attention knows it. In the NBA thread, I've been accused twice already this season of being a Kobe stan.
Can't say the same about players I truly find no value in; JR Smith, Eddie House, OJ Mayo. There is nothing about what they bring to a basketball court that I respect.
Kobe? I respect certain things he brings to the table.
39 points on 37 shots is not one of those things.Never has been, never, EVER will be. If someone brings up some of my favorite players (KD, Bron, Kidd, Eyebrows) on a day when they shoot like 30ish shots and net like 25-40 points, I'm'a clown that player, too... then remind whoever brought that game up that Kobe's entire career has seen those types of games, frequently. And I still don't like it. Just because KD has a game where he chucks 34 and nets 40, I'm not gonna go "Oh, well, then I love Kobe now."
And dudes like seaman stay trying to sway an opinion instead of just casually discussing differences by validating points or offering rebuttals.
Because of OTHER things Kobe brings to the table, if he WAS a Rondo type (limited shooting range, EXCELLENT passing ability), I fully believe he'd still have multiple championships by now. Maybe not 5. Maybe more than 5. But because of his tenacity, dedication to his craft, and competitiveness, he'd be a champion by now if he had a different skill set, no doubt.
But the skill set he DOES have includes volume shooting, something I hate.
Did you really have to mention OJ Mayo man?
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unrelated to everything thats being said in here but i lost a lot of respect for KD when he admitted that he passes up on half court shots at the buzzer because he cares about his stats more than giving his team a possible advantage
THAT is selfish
THAT is selfish
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I'd rather have Kobe do his Kobeface after a bucket and not an assist 
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You are switching up the argument though. Do you dislike Kobe for having the tendency of being a volume shooter? Or being a "glory hog" and "bad teammate" although countless players have said he's been a great teammate and good influence on them.
You bring up KD, when one of his biggest criticisms from the masses is his tendency to not be more assertive and have that alpha mentality. I don't know if that's the same as what your speaking of as a "glory hog," but it's something that people use to try and detract from what he does. And even though I'm guilty of joking about it as well with the whole KD-beta, Russ-alpha persona, I'm not going to let something like that diminish what he's accomplished.
There's more than one way to skin a cat. Kobe is nowhere near a perfect player, him playing more stylistically like Lebron or Magic, wouldn't make him one either. He's accomplished as much or more than both of them who would be considered the greatest of teammates that anyone would want to play with because their more willing to pass the ball to you than Kobe. But in the grand scheme of this if the goal is to win and win at the highest of levels, as a competitor, the way it happens can happen in a myriad of ways. There's no one way or right way to become successful in any walk of life. You can have your preferences to do so, but condemning me for not being Italian and getting that same girl over you because of my charm and good looks would just be petty on your part no?
You bring up KD, when one of his biggest criticisms from the masses is his tendency to not be more assertive and have that alpha mentality. I don't know if that's the same as what your speaking of as a "glory hog," but it's something that people use to try and detract from what he does. And even though I'm guilty of joking about it as well with the whole KD-beta, Russ-alpha persona, I'm not going to let something like that diminish what he's accomplished.
There's more than one way to skin a cat. Kobe is nowhere near a perfect player, him playing more stylistically like Lebron or Magic, wouldn't make him one either. He's accomplished as much or more than both of them who would be considered the greatest of teammates that anyone would want to play with because their more willing to pass the ball to you than Kobe. But in the grand scheme of this if the goal is to win and win at the highest of levels, as a competitor, the way it happens can happen in a myriad of ways. There's no one way or right way to become successful in any walk of life. You can have your preferences to do so, but condemning me for not being Italian and getting that same girl over you because of my charm and good looks would just be petty on your part no?
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this Italian on Italian violence needs to stop
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for some reason this post makes me want to get pasta for lunch
shoeking2101
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From the sidelines, it's pretty cool reading you guys debate about Kobe.
Knowledge and valid points being thrown on both sides.
Knowledge and valid points being thrown on both sides.
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I'm an honorary Splash Brother though.
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SeaMan is a cool dude, but the fact that he said Thibbs is a "trash basketball coach" taught me that he is not one to get into a mature, logical basketball debate with.
I don't expect everyone to feel the same about every basketball topic, but that opinion just killed my whole perception of talking basketball with him.
Overrated?
Deficient with offense?
Bad with drawing up plays?
Okay... I might listen even if I don't agree.
But just saying he's "trash?"
Meh.
One less person I know to debate with
No offense, Sea. You're still a funny guy
I don't expect everyone to feel the same about every basketball topic, but that opinion just killed my whole perception of talking basketball with him.
Overrated?
Deficient with offense?
Bad with drawing up plays?
Okay... I might listen even if I don't agree.
But just saying he's "trash?"
Meh.
One less person I know to debate with
No offense, Sea. You're still a funny guy
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darthska
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the context of that is, if you think dantoni is trash then thibs is also trash. so in other words i put them on about the same levelSeaMan is a cool dude, but the fact that he said Thibbs is a "trash basketball coach" taught me that he is not one to get into a mature, logical basketball debate with.
I don't expect everyone to feel the same about every basketball topic, but that opinion just killed my whole perception of talking basketball with him.
Overrated?
Deficient with offense?
Bad with drawing up plays?
Okay... I might listen even if I don't agree.
But just saying he's "trash?"
Meh.
One less person I know to debate with
No offense, Sea. You're still a funny guy
but i do need to admit that i was wrong about thibs not playing boozer in the 4th, that guy is beyond trash
but hes also left pau sitting at the end of games a few times this year so
darthska
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Ay dios mio.
It's simple.
Have you never, EVER disliked something that you also had small appreciation for? Maybe a car that you absolutely hated, bu the sound system was on point?
Have you NEVER liked something that had a few things that drove you crazy? Maybe this perfect chick, that was close to perfect except for the fact that she had this uber-annoying BFF.
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it was a reach but it all makes sense now
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who did you steal this one from?
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who did you steal this one from?
cant remember. im sure they stole it from the internet. circle of life b.
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Lion King Bait?
I'll take it. Let's get it gtb.
I'll take it. Let's get it gtb.
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Not really a car but in a sports context, I get somewhat where you're coming from. I'm similar when it comes to Tim Tebow at UF, people want to sing his praises like he was the G.O.A.T. but I'm here like I was at every home game from 2006-2010, I seen the other talent on that team, it wasn't just him by himself. He had a lot of flaws, but was still a great player who absolutely contributed greatly to the success of the Gator program during those years. He didn't have the best throwing motion, or was accurate all the time, but he did what needed to be done to win. So I hear and respect the take you have.
But in the same token, I'm not going to say that Player X, Y, Z in that same position at QB would have amounted to the same success, cause dude was a once in a generation and despite what may look to be a plug and play situation, there's a myriad of other factors that come into account. (see plug in AI, T-Mac, other wing and we have the same amount of success in the early and late 2000s). Or say he's only been great because of the coaching and talent around him, as that's somehow almost a backhanded complement. All of the greats have had both of those and have been FORTUNATE, (Tim, MJ, Shaq, LBJ, Magic, Bird, etc.) but I don't see them being disrespected or diminished for what they've accomplished.
Like I said before, we all have preferences and that's fine, quite frankly this thread, site and world would be pretty boring if we all thought the same thing and viewed stuff the same way, but there's a point where it goes from criticism of preference to having an agenda, especially when it's being brought up multiple places and dudes are making a referendum on a guys career as C CP1708 has stated. As if the last 17 years didn't happen and there's been one other guy that has been as successful in terms of winning titles in that same time period. And that other guy has had continuity in the organization, talent, and not had to carry that franchise on his back in some 5 years or so.
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With all the Kobe talk good or bad (here on NT as always and in the media) made me realize something. He's pretty much been the face of the franchise for close to 20 years. Once he retires, how dead will these Lakers forums be and just the Lakers brand in general? Most of Laker talk has been about Kobe rather it's good or bad. I don't see other superstar coming up that will command that much attention as Kobe has for close to 20 years.
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