2014-15 Official Lakers Season Thread, Vol: We Love Each Other

[essential1]

Los Angeles Lakers guard Kobe Bryant began an intense six-month training program with an early-morning workout Monday, sources with knowledge of the situation told ESPN. ESPN.com

At one point, Barnes pump-faked the ball directly into Bryant’s face as he prepared to throw it in bounds. Bryant, to his credit, did not flinch. “What’s funny was, I didn’t realize how close the ball was, because if you look at the replay, I wasn’t even looking,” Barnes said. “I don’t know what made me do it. It rubbed his nose and he didn’t flinch at all. It just kind of shows who he is. He’s just a cold-blooded dude. I respect that about him.” Afterward, Bryant said he was amused. Lakers forward Lamar Odom called Barnes a “monkey” in the postgame locker room and told reporters that “[Barnes] was an action figure today. He was really involved and really into the game. It’s too bad we are not going to see him again [in the regular season].” Barnes responded on Twitter, suggesting Odom should eat Barnes’s twins’ diapers. Within months, they were teammates. “I remember one thing [Kobe] said was, ‘Anyone crazy enough to eff with me is crazy enough to play with me,’” Barnes said. Grantland

 

[mrdieselfuel09]

Barnes greatest Laker ever. Give him a statue and throw that number 9 jersey on the rafters next to Sun Yue

 

[licensed to ball]

It's funny hearing people constantly give cp3 a pass for his post season failures.

"He doesn't have enough help."

Watch last nights game and say that with a straight face

If they don't at least make it to the western conference finals with all those pieces...

And yes of course id love for him to have been our starting pg instead of Jodie Meeks. But it's just funny to see people give Melo such a hard time when cp3 hasn't done much better with a better supporting cast.

We'll see if that changes this year

 

[sea manup]

the difference between an elite wing scorer and an elite "true point guard" is that all championship teams need an elite scorer while a true championship offence has no need for one guy to be getting 10 assists.

theres a reason elite pgs never win anything

 

[sb]

It's funny hearing people constantly give cp3 a pass for his post season failures.

"He doesn't have enough help."

Watch last nights game and say that with a straight face

If they don't at least make it to the western conference finals with all those pieces...

And yes of course id love for him to have been our starting pg instead of Jodie Meeks. But it's just funny to see people give Melo such a hard time when cp3 hasn't done much better with a better supporting cast.

We'll see if that changes this year

parker >

 

[kal-el-8]

 
the difference between an elite wing scorer and an elite "true point guard" is that all championship teams need an elite scorer while a true championship offence has no need for one guy to be getting 10 assists.

theres a reason elite pgs never win anything

the last one to ever win one without an absolutely dominant big was Isiah Thomas I believe. So I agree with your view on that.

You could say parker, but he had Duncan.

 

[sea manup]

 

 
the difference between an elite wing scorer and an elite "true point guard" is that all championship teams need an elite scorer while a true championship offence has no need for one guy to be getting 10 assists.

theres a reason elite pgs never win anything

the last one to ever win one without an absolutely dominant big was Isiah Thomas I believe. So I agree with your view on that.

You could say parker, but he had Duncan.

yeah but parkers role has never been to run around giving everyone on the team open looks, he gets assists in the flow of the offence but hes an elite scorer.

the spurs offence (and any offence from a dominant championship team) flows so well that you dont need a single guy running around setting teammates up, it just naturally happens in the flow of the offence

put cp3/nash/stockton on the lakers/heat/spurs and the teams would not see much of a production increase, other than defense with cp3 and stockton over fisher.

the basic formula for all great teams in the past 25 years is to have a really well coached offence that gets everyone open looks, and a truly dominant scorer (kobe,mj,lebron,wade,tp/duncan) to do work and find open teammates if needed. there is no reason to waste money and capspace on a guy that gets 10+ assists per game when that job is already fulfilled by the offence running itself 

 

[CP1708]

The trend of PG and the rise of importance is noticeable however, and people should understand that.

A few years ago, there was damn near nothing at PG. Now? We're thick with it.

CP3
Parker
Rondo
Deron
Kyrie
Russ
Wall
Steph (I'm willing to slot him aside if argued)
Lawson
Rubio
Chalmers
Rose
Lowry
Lillard
Conley


You have Exum and Smart coming in, and we'll see if they join the party or just become other random guys.


All this PG's don't win is built off Phil Jackson personally punting the position. Just because he won with Fish, BJ, Harper, etc does not render the position meaningless. Magic and Isiah won 7 and went to the Finals like 5 other times the previous 14 or so years. They're called trends.

And the trend right now is the PG spot is completely on the rise. Sure, the Heat could go win and make it look like the spot has lesser value again, but it would be foolish to believe that's going to stick forever.

This is no longer 1999. Point Guards matter again. And will for some time with this influx of talent.

 

[the dauqs]

And as Sea Manup said, all those PGs will need an Elite/Go to player along side them to win a championship. It will not change.

 

[CP1708]

And as Sea Manup said, all those PGs will need an Elite/Go to player along side them to win a championship. It will not change.

Just as MJ, Kobe, LeBron, Duncan, Shaq, Bird, etc all needed an elite guy beside them. So stall me with the "PG needs a helper with him too" crap.

 

[sea manup]

magic is lebron sized

there is no rule in basketball that dictates who brings the ball up the floor and runs the offence 

give me a bigger guard like kobe/bron/kd running the offence over a pg any day of the year

a good championship offence will have interchangeable parts, the spurs can sub rck in and he would probably get a couple assists and 3-4 wide open shots and this is not because they have some all world pass first pg setting everyone up.

there is no real difference between a wing and a pg, since we have seen both positions successfully run offences. when i say pgs are a waste of money i mean "pure pgs" the nash, cp3, stockton type of pgs. guys like westbrook, lillard and parkers are score first guys that are pretty much just a shorter version of the kobes/mjs/lebrons of the world. a championship team needs guys like that, although it would be optimal if your go to scorer wasnt the shortest guy on the team.

just because there are more pgs now doesnt mean they will more more successful, although i guess if there are enough great pgs for every team to grab one than at least one great pg will win a championship every year. but pg lead teams will always lose to better/bigger wing player lead teams.

not the best example but look at our team last year, we had the best pg of our generation and we were losing games. give the ball to kobe and have him run the offence and we have the best record in the league for the second half of the season. 

derick rose's mvp year, dude is unstoppable all season. by playoff time he realizes that he is still the smallest guy on the court and gets shut down by the much bigger lebron.

getting a great pg is a good backup plan but if (big IF since there are very few good wing players out there these days) we can get an elite scoring wing player (ie. KD) there is no reason to pay good money to have the shortest guy on the court run the offence 

 

[kal-el-8]

 

And as Sea Manup said, all those PGs will need an Elite/Go to player along side them to win a championship. It will not change.

Just as MJ, Kobe, LeBron, Duncan, Shaq, Bird, etc all needed an elite guy beside them. So stall me with the "PG needs a helper with him too" crap.

but that's the formula no?

Get a go to an elite wing player and a big.

Or two elite wing players.

Look at all the championship teams from the last 25 years, they all follow that formula.

Except those pistons squads.

 

[sea manup]

And as Sea Manup said, all those PGs will need an Elite/Go to player along side them to win a championship. It will not change.

thing is a two guard core is always going to be less effective than a wing post core

miami is an exception but it took a while for lebron and wade to figure it out, wade had to step back and let lebron take over the team. even then they both play the same position so you will get deminishing returns

just watch kd stand around all day while westbrook does westbrook things. or how kobe became the dominant ball handler on a team with steve nash (gary payton too in 04)

you only need one elite wing player on the floor at a time to run a offence through, having two will considerably reduce the second guys effectiveness 

 

[grandtheftbike]

i think jalen rose touched on this on the 'water pistol pete' segment on first take last year. there's really no defined position for players based on 'traditional' standards - only their roles and skillsets. and i quoted 'traditional' because of the other 4 positions aside from being a center in this new era of small ball basketball

 

[sea manup]

 

 

And as Sea Manup said, all those PGs will need an Elite/Go to player along side them to win a championship. It will not change.

Just as MJ, Kobe, LeBron, Duncan, Shaq, Bird, etc all needed an elite guy beside them. So stall me with the "PG needs a helper with him too" crap.

but that's the formula no?

Get a go to an elite wing player and a big.

Or two elite wing players.

Look at all the championship teams from the last 25 years, they all follow that formula.

Except those pistons squads.

you may be talking about the bad boy pistons but looking at the 04 pistons, a team where the pg won finals mvp, no one on that team ever averaged more than 6 assists. but all their starters averaged at least 1.4 assists.

again, championship offences dont need a pure pg dishing out 10 assists per game because the offence creates shots for itself. billups won finals mvp because he was a score first pg that the lakers had problems defending all series 

 

[CP1708]

not the best example but look at our team last year, we had the best pg of our generation and we were losing games

He was 39 dude.

 

[MVP]

Yea the league is much more about the combo guard/wing that can do playmaking and creating for others when needed but also can get buckets. (Bron, KD, Curry, Russ, etc.) The need for Rondo types is vastly overstated. Even CP3 is a combo guard with exceptional playmaking ability when he's not flopping everywhere.

Wasn't that one of your criticisms of Nash in his prime C CP1708 ? He had the shooting ability to be unstoppable but yet passed to those with less ability.

 

[sea manup]

 

not the best example but look at our team last year, we had the best pg of our generation and we were losing games

He was 39 dude.

hence "not the best example" 

 

[licensed to ball]

You don't need a "dominant big" when you have a bag full of role players with the ability to score.

He has teammates that can both create their own shots (Barnes occasionally, Crawford, and as of this year Blake) in various situations, he has teammates that can spot up and knock
Down open shots (Crawford again, JJ, Granger, Barnes occasionally, he has a big who can hold down the paint defensively (Jordan), and two bigs who can catch lobs from anywhere and throw it down.

Sure Blake and Jordan are liabilities at the ft line, but is that flaw really enough to excuse CP3 from making it further than the 1st or 2nd round?

Why do you need a dominant Shaq when you have a team full of solid shooters and scorers?

They have some defensive liabilities with length and size on the perimeter sure. The teams not perfect. And I'm not saying it's championship worthy. I'm just saying, there is at least enough talent on that team to go to the WCF with CP3 leading them. They Should get further than the first round at least, and they definitely should push OKC to at least a game 7 in the 2nd round. If they don't... There's just something wrong. Especially with Doc as coach.

What more can you ask for as a point guard? I mean obviously better FT shooting would be nice but nothing is ever going to be perfect. Each team has it's flaws. Perimeter defense and free throws are theirs, but they have enough offensive fire power to at least push to a game 7 in the 2nd round, and if cp3 is as elite as everyone wants to proclaim him to be he should be able to lift them into the conference finals since he has the ability to take over and score as well as create for his teammates.

I'm not trying to hate or sound like I wouldn't want him on my team. Basketball reasons still has me depressed. Of course id love to have him as a Laker, of course he's great.

But at the same time, you can't keep saying he doesn't have enough help when his roster is that deep. He sat on the bench last night as the clippers 2nd team extended that lead to 30 points. You can say it was "just one game" but it's clear they have the best bench in the league. You can't really ask for more as a super star than that. At some point you either have what it takes to win or you don't.

Coaching isn't an excuse anymore because we all see what Doc has done for Blake's game. So now that Del negro isn't a scape goat anymore, and Blake is actually playing like a star offensively and not just lob city anymore, it'll be interesting to where the blame will fall again if they're bounced in the first or 2nd round again.

"But but but they only have an elite pg, elite pf, great defensive center, great shooters, and a great bench. He still needs a dominant big and a dominant SG. Then maybe he'll have enough..."

 

[CP1708]

Yes, absolutely. Nash should have been shooting.

This new era of PG's coming in, has both abilities, and we will likely start to see them leading to chips in the next few years.

 

[kal-el-8]

You don't need a "dominant big" when you have a bag full of role players with the ability to score.

He has teammates that can both create their own shots (Barnes occasionally, Crawford, and as of this year Blake) in various situations, he has teammates that can spot up and knock
Down open shots (Crawford again, JJ, Granger, Barnes occasionally, he has a big who can hold down the paint defensively (Jordan), and two bigs who can catch lobs from anywhere and throw it down.

Sure Blake and Jordan are liabilities at the ft line, but is that flaw really enough to excuse CP3 from making it further than the 1st or 2nd round?

Why do you need a dominant Shaq when you have a team full of solid shooters and scorers?

They have some defensive liabilities with length and size on the perimeter sure. The teams not perfect. And I'm not saying it's championship worthy. I'm just saying, there is at least enough talent on that team to go to the WCF with CP3 leading them. They Should get further than the first round at least, and they definitely should push OKC to at least a game 7 in the 2nd round. If they don't... There's just something wrong. Especially with Doc as coach.

What more can you ask for as a point guard? I mean obviously better FT shooting would be nice but nothing is ever going to be perfect. Each team has it's flaws. Perimeter defense and free throws are theirs, but they have enough offensive fire power to at least push to a game 7 in the 2nd round, and if cp3 is as elite as everyone wants to proclaim him to be he should be able to lift them into the conference finals since he has the ability to take over and score as well as create for his teammates.

I'm not trying to hate or sound like I wouldn't want him on my team. Basketball reasons still has me depressed. Of course id love to have him as a Laker, of course he's great.

But at the same time, you can't keep saying he doesn't have enough help when his roster is that deep. He sat on the bench last night as the clippers 2nd team extended that lead to 30 points. You can say it was "just one game" but it's clear they have the best bench in the league. You can't really ask for more as a super star than that. At some point you either have what it takes to win or you don't.

Coaching isn't an excuse anymore because we all see what Doc has done for Blake's game. So now that Del negro isn't a scape goat anymore, and Blake is actually playing like a star offensively and not just lob city anymore, it'll be interesting to where the blame will fall again if they're bounced in the first or 2nd round again.

"But but but they only have an elite pg, elite pf, great defensive center, great shooters, and a great bench. He still needs a dominant big and a dominant SG. Then maybe he'll have enough..."

they'll get bounced.

I have failth in gsw.

 

[grandtheftbike]

I'm just saying..

could have just said the clippers are stacked

 

[sea manup]

Yes, absolutely. Nash should have been shooting.

This new era of PG's coming in, has both abilities, and we will likely start to see them leading to chips in the next few years.

part of this also has to do with the fact that after kobe and wade retire the best sgs in the league are james harden and paul george, not exactly championship material

hopefully this draft will change that.

i have always been okay with scoring pgs/combo guards. im just saying theres no reason for a championship team to waste money on a nash/cp3/kidd type

i remember watching nash in his suns years and thinking dude was more of a ball hog than kobe, he would literally dribble circles around the court and refuse to pass to anyone unless it would net him an assist 

but still, if there is a 6'5 wing player that can handle the ball and is an all world talent, he will be better than a 6'1 pg handling the ball 100% of the time

 

[sea manup]

Originally Posted by Kal-El-8  

they'll get bounced.

I have failth in gsw.

i dont see golden state winning

david lee cant stop blake

curry is still pg sized so he is too small/not strong enough to deal with all the extra defenders the clippers throw at him

 

[MVP]

I just think calling them PGs in the traditional sense (Stockton, Mark Jackson, Nash, Rondo, etc.) cause they are playing the one is misleading. They're all combo guards (Curry, Cp3, Lillard, Russ, Rose, etc.) So maybe getting Smart if we don't move up isn't that bad after all if he works on his shot.