2014-15 Official Lakers Season Thread, Vol: We Love Each Other

[kal-el-8]

Who's making an excuse? Funny in damn near every basketball circle, Doc is seen as an elite coach. But here he's just regulated to MDA's level.

I also find this funny

 

[pmatic]

So Blake or Chris?

Spoiler

 

[00david00]

CP3, it's meant to be

 

[licensed to ball]

Who's making an excuse? Funny in damn near every basketball circle, Doc is seen as an elite coach. But here he's just regulated to MDA's level.

I also find this funny

Oh but you guys didn't know?
When it comes to defending _'Antoni, every other coach in the league is inferior. Even some coaches, like Thibbs, are trash.

It's amazing what kind of Cult Mike has grown in ONLY THIS THREAD. Meanwhile players who've played in the nba, coaches who've coached in the nba, and analysts who've spent their lives analyzing the nba... Not so much of a fan of him as an overall head coach.

But nah. They don't know what they're talking about. The guy who drinks bagged milk in Canada and the guy who stores Mountain Dew in his basement in Oregon know Mike is a better coach than anyone in the world not named Popp or Phil. They just know.

Everything every other coach, like Doc, has done, is discredited. His championship is a fluke. His 2 finals appearances are a fluke. The fact that Blake and Deandre improved vastly after Doc arrived... You guessed it, FLUKE. Nah man... Guy is all fluke all day.

But our coach, which our players obviously aren't enthused to play for, is doing just fine racking up dem L's. His excuses are RONDO AND GORTAT... And STAT WAS INJURED. Because no other coach in the world has had to over come injuries and still win. No other coach has. Only Mike has caught bad breaks.
Mikes the best.

Don't argue it, embrace the greatness of Mike.

 

[licensed to ball]

and seaman. I'm honestly pretty disappointed in you. I tried to legit actually discuss it with you but it's clear all you wanted to do was "bait."

Don't expect any more basketball related opinions to be directly headed your way.

but I know you couldn't care less.
Keep baiting. Enjoy yourself.

 

[kal-el-8]

And only this thread.


THE WHOLE BASKETBALL WORLD SHARES OUR VIEWS.

THE WHOLE BASKETBALL WORLD SEES THE GREATNESS THAT IS THIBS AND DOC RIVERS,

BUT IN THIS THREAD THEY'RE TRASH.

AND WE MUST EMBRACE THE GREAT MIKE DANTONI.




For the record unless you're getting Durant or LeBron you're not winning in this era regardless of coach. Whether it be dantoni or Phil Jackson

That may the the Lakers point of view here.
Buying time until the next franchise player comes around or available.

 

[grandtheftbike]

I

 

[menacin methods]

FAY

 

[VinMillerHearn58]

If they have the Clippers players leave as Free agents....CP3.......

View media item 944579

 

[CP1708]

LTB using his extremes as usual, but that's fine.

When all this began last year, I said very simply, I do my homework and look at everything league wide (not just Laker based) objectively.

I could care less about being pro MDA, or anti MDA, I simply examine all factors. What LTB, Mamba, to an extend Ska do is ignore those factors. They read only the black or white, have and have nots. (Ironic eh? )

Avery Johnson is an elite coach, cuz he won a title, same as Doc.

Oh, wait, you don't think Avery won a title in 06?????
Well, who did then? Oh, Pat Riley did. I seeeeee. Riley, now that's an elite coach, that must be why the Heat won the title.

That ain't true, is it? The NBA bent the Mavs over somethin fierce, did they not?

So then, Avery is on that Doc, Carlisle level of coaches, with the title robbed of him, right?

Speaking of Doc.....2007, the biggest Celtics homer on the planet is writing SCATHING articles about Doc needing to be fired.

As you know, same coach won the title in 08.

Anyone remember the 66 win Celtics needing to go 7 games in the first round?
Or how bout 7 games in round two, against a one man team Cavs, with Mike Brown?
They also went 6, with the Pistons, who had been to like 6 straight ECF's, and were on fumes.

After 18 playoff games, the almighty Doc, Thibbs, KG, Pierce, Allen, Rondo Celtics were 9-9.

Doc was great, yes?

See, the fortunate thing is, they faced a Laker team missing two starters. Instead of Luke Walton and Ronny Turiaf in the Finals, think Phil would have preferred his 2 starters?????

I wonder......since we lost in 6, does that mean Atlanta was better than us, since they went 7 with Boston?

Why would a 66 win team, need 7 games vs an 8 seed?

But no matter right? Doc won a title.

(BTW, LA was 12-3 thru 15 playoff games, while Boston started 9-9, but of course, depth does not play an issue, right fellas?)


Things happen. Good luck, bad luck, bizarre, random, freak injuries, suspect refs, all kinds of crap.
**** happens.

Riley wins in 06, cuz, better coaching.
Pop wins in 07, cuz, better coaching.

Not the years of picks sold, followed by two suspensions for the Suns. Nope. Better coach.

Anyone remember what Stat did to Duncan in the playoffs when he treated Duncan like he was Kwame? Suns prolly didn't need that guy tho, right?

Riley wins in 06, cuz great.
Pop wins in 07, cuz great.
But......then Phil loses in 08, cuz Doc is great?

With ease, it could be Avery won 06, MDA won 07, and Phil won 08, but **** happened.

Just like that.

Pop is 10-0 in the 2012 playoffs. Spurs have won 20+ games in a row. Untouchable.

Lose their next 4, to Scott Brooks.

So, Scott is great, right?

But then, up 1-0 in the Finals, James Harden completely falls apart, and the Thunder lose close game, after close game in the final minute.

So now, Eric Spolestra is the great coach, cuz, title.


It's all right there. The difference between winning and losing is microscopic. One call, one ankle, one bed wetter (Harden 2012), one suspension can take you from Title, to "never win when it matters".

Til you are handed 3 Superstars, some refs, some luck, and a narrative. Then suddenly, you have a "breakthrough".

And people eat that **** up. You buy that, and say yeah, that guy is a winner. He wins. Cuz that's what you're told.

I examine the other factors.

Give Mike 3 franchise guys, he wins a title in LA, tell me, how hard does the media suck him off? They would go crazy hyping his "breakthrough", same as they did Doc, or do now with Spolestra.

Mike would be the same coach as this year. Only the talent level around him changes.

See Doc, see Spo, see Phil 07 to 08.

**** happens. Narratives do too.

 

[grandtheftbike]

I could care less about being pro MDA, or anti MDA

this. this pro/anti mda stuff has gone too far as if it's as simple as two options. when you take a look at the bigger picture, this guy has never had a fair chance to start with. sure, there are things he can improve on but we can't really give him a full analysis if he doesn't have all the tools to let him do what he does. if players were healthy (lulz) and the FO signs a couple of key guys and he still manages to screw things up, then off with his head. but until that happens, you can't really say how good/bad of a coach he is

imo of course

 

[mosk33toe]

Wait...wait...wait.....


You guys are putting MDA on the level of Thibs and Doc Rivers?

Thibs, he hasn't won anything but has coached the **** out of his team the last few years without their MVP...

Doc has a championship and has made this pretty good Clippers team into a championship contender...

YET...YET...We still riding with MDA?

Really?

The nerve of some of you to call me delusional about wanting the Lakers to win, YETTTTTT you want to bring back the coach who just lead us to the worst winning percentage in LAKERS History.

This MDA love is downright ridiculous at this point, I swear it feels like the most elaborate hoax or prank ever...

 

[essential1]

You're saying Clippers were a pretty good team like they won 45 games last year.

They were a contender last year, and were a contender this year, with or without Doc Rivers.

 

[licensed to ball]

CP I can get with what you just said.
When you break things down like that it's a lot easier to understand your position.

I know we give you a hard time about not being objective but it's obvious when you make posts like that one that you truly are. When you look at things from both perspectives then there isn't anything that I can really argue. All I've ever wanted was for you to understand the flaws that we see, while we make an effort to see the positives that you see. Oh, and to not be so arrogant about others views with constant mockery

As long as we can all acknowledge that there are things he does exceptionally well, and he does other things not so well, I don't see any issues here.

I can agree with you gtb, and seaman on one thing and that it's worth seeing what he can do next season with a young prospect and maybe another piece through free agency (and a fully healthy supporting cast).

Since he is under contract, and better options are not CURRENTLY available (although that could change soon), there's no point to firing him and paying him while we pay another coach and waste even more money during a season that we can pretty much all agree won't go very far.

So it you guys say let's see what he can do with a fair shake.... Let's do it.

Let's see what he does next year with a healthier squad. But if his team quits on him or we continue to allow teams to score 140 a night even with better, healthier players... I don't wanna see the same excuses you guys have been using this year. I'd expect you guys to acknowledge that maybe, just maybe he's not as great as you thought he was.

And on the other hand, if the team does play better (doesn't have to be great, just better) defense, wins more games, and shows clear improvement then I'll be willing to admit that maybe you guys were right and he can coach pretty good with a little more help.

Would it be fair to agree to that? Gentlemans *handshake*, and just leave it at that? So we can peacefully focus on the draft and leave this alone until the season begins and our coaching is relevant to discuss again?

 

[mosk33toe]

You're saying Clippers were a pretty good team like they won 45 games last year.

They were a contender last year, and were a contender this year, with or without Doc Rivers.

I believe there are two parts to coaching, I never coached on a elite level but i've coached, i'm not comparing it to anything these guys do, but let me give you my theory on it.

The two aspects being playing calling and the strategy of coaching and then you have the mental aspect of it.

Last years Clippers team was good, don't get me wrong, this years Clippers team is pretty good as well, but you can tell from the progression of their key players (Blake and Jordan) that something has changed from last year.

These players for the most part physically aren't much different than they were last year, the bench hasn't changed much, I mean you got Hedo who barely plays, Big Baby who looks a shell of his self, and Granger who has fallen off tremendously, i'll also mention Darren Collison because I think he was a good pick up so I won't discredit that the team didn't get better, but I think if they have it is by a bit.

However the confidence in Blake and Jordan has skyrocketed, I read somewhere that when VDN was coaching Jordan played like 4 minutes in the 4th, and now he plays like 8 to 10 (not exactly sure what the exact number is) and he looks comfortable out there. Blake still doesn't have a plethora of low posts moves, yet he's producing much better than last year and has even warranted some MVP votes. So these two players just randomly become that much better? You can think that, thats fine, but I rather believe it has something to do with the mental aspect of coaching Doc Rivers brings to his team.

MDA might be the smartest X and O's guy there is, he might have a play for every situation ever, I still don't think he has learned the mental aspect of coaching yet. You have the two leaders on your team questioning him (Kobe and Pau) you have people saying we can't play this type of game with the players we have, yet he continues to do so.

As much as I despise MDA, and I do despise him, I wouldn't mind him as a offensive coordinator type role, but as a head coach I don't think he has a place here.

Give me a guy like Thibs who his players are dying for undermanned ever year, yet still somehow produce, give me a Doc Rivers who seems to have some sort of logic to his coaching, give me someone who can run a system not just an offensive gimmick.

 

[licensed to ball]

sea manup C CP1708

What do you guys say?

 

[darthska]

so dantoni is a bad coach because steve nash did not go back to his mavs stats after dantoni left and the new coach ran the same exact offense


if deandre jordan averages the same numbers for a different coach next year would that mean doc rivers is overrated?

Deandre didn't average the same numbers though. Had a 2 point jump in ppg and a 7 rpg improvement from last year. Mostly because Doc trusted him and kept him on the floor unlike VDN. Oh and Blake jumped 6 ppg and became an top 3 MVP candidate with CP3 missing a 3rd of the year.

That's not all on them. They believe in Doc.

So......The Clippers get knocked out in rd 1 or 2, then what?

Doc still good, or sucks now?

didnt you get the memo? its okay to use excuses when talking about other coaches 

Oh he got the memo.

He does it all the time w/ MDA. So either he got the memo, or he's doing it on his own.

 

[darthska]

*lots and lots of words*

All of this sounds to me like you don't think the coach makes any difference at all.

Championships are won because FOs bring in the right pieces, superstar ankles don't get sprained, pivotal players don't get ejected, and the coach is as influential as the fans. Like the reason the Celtics won in 2008 was because of circumstances that fell into place for them, Doc be damned.

But the reason Phil has done it 11 times... well that's because he's Phil.

But dig this, if he doesn't win that 1st one because our roster is at full strength, then... what? Say I'm an anti-Phil guy back then, arguing that he shouldn't be the Bulls head coach because it was STUPID to switch Scottie on Magic which obviously didn't work (again, we're assuming we won), and you come through all pro-Phil guy, talking about "The Lakers won because Magic is unguardable. Not Phil's fault. The Scottie/Magic switch was genius. They're just kids right now, but if Phil had Rondo and Gortat..."

But that's not what happened. We WEREN'T full-strength, he switched Scottie, and... Yay! Phil's 1st ring.

But say he loses to the Lakers, beats the Blazers and Suns and Sonics, but some CIRCUMSTANCE has Rodman ejected or Pippen tweaks an ankle or...

... MJ is out w/ the flu one game.

Doesn't play (instead of 'did play').

Say he misses a ring because The Flu Game never happened. "Guys, Sloan's NOT a good coach. He just won because MJ was sick. Miss me w/ his praises, please," you'd say. No?

Circumstances.

Coaches are just... pawns, at the mercy of... circumstances.

Phil has 11 because the NBA just wished them upon him, and he's fortunate for that. If our roster was at full strength (meaning he never wins his actual 1st chip), the flu game never happened (and the Jazz win 1 Finals), and Rodman is ejected or Pippen lands wrong and twists his ankle (allowing the Jazz to win back-to-back)... then we're looking at Phil coming out of the 90s w 3 rings instead of 6.

But thankfully for him, CIRCUMSTANCES had him coming out of the 90s w/ 6, not 3.

Because we WEREN'T at full strength, The Flu Game DID happen, and neither Pippen nor Rodman DID get ejected or injured significantly. Thank the Based God those circumstances were right for Phil, because, honestly... he's really no better than Mike Brown. He's just... it's just... the odds have ever been in his favor. 

 

 

[sea manup]

 

so dantoni is a bad coach because steve nash did not go back to his mavs stats after dantoni left and the new coach ran the same exact offense


if deandre jordan averages the same numbers for a different coach next year would that mean doc rivers is overrated?

Deandre didn't average the same numbers though. Had a 2 point jump in ppg and a 7 rpg improvement from last year. Mostly because Doc trusted him and kept him on the floor unlike VDN. Oh and Blake jumped 6 ppg and became an top 3 MVP candidate with CP3 missing a 3rd of the year.

That's not all on them. They believe in Doc.

So......The Clippers get knocked out in rd 1 or 2, then what?

Doc still good, or sucks now?

didnt you get the memo? its okay to use excuses when talking about other coaches 

Oh he got the memo.

He does it all the time w/ MDA. So either he got the memo, or he's doing it on his own.

thing is, yeah you can say CP will do it all the time with MDA

but he also does the same thing for other coaches

MDA with good talent = results

other coach with good talent = results

the key variable is talent, CP knows that, he knows that doc can achieve the same levels of success with talent as dantoni can as thibs can

bottom line is looking at all these coaches with the same criteria, not picking and choosing which parts you want to look at

if im comparing dantoni's worst season im going to pick his worst season and compare it with doc's worst season, to see which one is worstest

same with their best seasons.

which is why its frustrating when i read something like "That team won 41 games. Yet Mike could only muster a measly 27 out of this squad of chuckers tailor made for his magnificent system? Yet only 42 wins with Amare, Gallo, Wilson and then Amare, Melo and Chauncey. And then quit on the team the following season."

that is literally comparing doc's COTY year with dantoni's worst years and coming to the conclusion doc > dantoni. what about all of docs bad years between the COTY and championship?

people have been calling dantoni the worst coach ever all year, would rather have dirt coach our team. so i use the same words to describe thibs who has had his own share of success and failures. i get a long reply about how its dumb for me to act so irrational about a coach.

i see something like "nash was an allstar before dantoni, nash made dantoni not the other way around". keep in mind that nash went from being a borderline allstar reserve to a two time mvp. so i throw in "doc rivers is only successful this year because deandre jordan worked hard by himself and improved this offseason". boom another long reply about how dumb my post is.

all im doing is using the anti dantoni arguments i see and applying it to other coaches and everyone thinks its crazy talk.

but at the end of the day, its a players league. if you have the talent you can get away with having an average coach, and since we are not getting phil or pop any time soon we will have to learn to live with having an average coach

 

[MVP]

So answer me this has MDA never had good enough talent to at least make the finals at least once?

 

[CP1708]

Ska, LA was full strength in 91, I'm not getting what you sayin there.

As for Phil.......

Look, we breakin **** down for dudes scrappin for ONE title. Doc, Avery, Thibbs, MDA, Carlisle, Karl.....

Phil = 11.

Case. *******. Closed.

Cut his **** in half. Hell, take 75% of his **** off the top, he still has multiple rings.

Phil is/was a freak.

The guy won 6/8, then 3 straight again.

In 11 years he coached, he won 9.

Pop is SHOWERED with praise and glory, he has 4 in 18 years. With 4 HOFers, a Bowen-Kawhi defender type support, and a stable GM/owner the ENTIRE time.

4/18

Phil went 9/11

Sucked for a couple years and finished with 2/8 with 2 of the 6 misses in the Finals.

19 years
13 Finals

2 of the 6 misses were MJ curveball era.

Pop, 5 Finals, 18 years.
Phil 13 Finals, 19 years.

Phil 4-1 vs Pop.

2 of Pop's 4 titles came in years Phil did not coach. (99-05)

Again, you can take half Phil's stuff, he still has more than Pop.
75%, he's almost still equal to Pop.

Then, I can say Mike never won til Phil.
Shaq-Kobe, never won til Phil.
Gasol never even won a playoff game, much less 3 Finals til Phil.

I'll go ahead and say Phil was pretty good at his job.

Call me crazy.

 

[CP1708]

So answer me this has MDA never had good enough talent to at least make the finals at least once?

No.

Good enough starters, never given a bench. (Sarver)

 

[licensed to ball]

Welp. I tried to extend an olive branch, twice, on this page and was ignore both times by both of you.

Don't say I didn't try to be fair or give him a shot.

 

[grandtheftbike]

So answer me this has MDA never had good enough talent to at least make the finals at least once?

i mean..there's always a possibility that there are better teams. his job is to maximize talent and put his guys in positions where they can succeed (which is probably his biggest flaw)

 

[MVP]

No.

Good enough starters, never given a bench. (Sarver)

Interesting. Cause I could have sworn you said he would have not only got there but won the title when Amare got suspended. That was the travesty that prevented him from getting his ring.