2014-15 Official Lakers Season Thread, Vol: We Love Each Other

[CP1708]

When you dudes gonna get that Blake and Jordan are developing because ya know, that's what 24 year old players do? That ain't Doc God damn it.

What, Durant getting better cuz Scott Brooks?

Young players improve. Stop crediting Doc. While he helps, they would improve this year under Vinnie same as Durant gets better under Brooks.

Natural growth.

 

[licensed to ball]

When you dudes gonna get that Blake and Jordan are developing because ya know, that's what 24 year old players do? That ain't Doc God damn it.

What, Durant getting better cuz Scott Brooks?

Young players improve. Stop crediting Doc. While he helps, they would improve this year under Vinnie same as Durant gets better under Brooks.

Natural growth.

Oh you mean the Durant that looks scared to call for the ball in crunch time lately? The Durant that is getting punked by TA to the point where he looks disinterested in trying to get the ball at certain points in the game? Scott brooks is helping him improve? Because to most fans right now Durant is on very thin ice, almost at the point of being perceived as regressing in the clutch.

Brooks is horrible.

Don't bring him up in the same sentence as Doc OR MDA. I'd rather have Mike than Brooks any day.

The only thing holding Durant from taking that next leap is a coach, ala MJ/Kobe/Shaq with Phil.

Doug Collins couldn't coach MJ to the promise land. Neither can Brooks for KD.

And now coaches don't help accelerate "natural growth"... I guess Kobe would of won 5 rings without Phil. Dat natural growth. Who needs a coach then right Ska?

#circumstances

 

[sea manup]

It's easy to say players improve more under doc than they do dantoni when ignoring all the players that have improved under dantoni

22 wins in phx the first year, add an above average pg (nash didnt even make the asg his last year in dallas) and it jumps to 66 wins. Nash improved a lot and so did everyone else on the team.

When you ignore that and say things like nash was already an allstar, he made dantoni. It shows you clearly have a heavy bias on the topic


Dantoni was praised by the media the exact way thibs is now. Doc got the same bad coach talk dantoni is getting before he got kg and ray. Spol didnt have what it takes till he finally won with lebron wade and bosh and now hes considered a top coach in the league.

Get dantoni the talent he needs and he will win games, just like any of these other coaches

 

[MVP]

I fail to see how my posts are hypocritical but if you want to roll with that, cool.

My intention is to bring up counter points when an argument is presented.

P: Sarver was cheap and didn't put enough pieces in place for MDA to succeed
CP: Wait, he actually did spend in the top 10 in 3 consecutive years and in most cases more or at least as much as the other good teams were and champions those same years.

P: Well, he could have kept Rondo, Nate, Gortat and the myriad of other draft picks to help deepen his bench.
CP: Actually due to the salary cap and the tax he couldn't, and would have had to remove or move other key cogs that were essential to MDA's system. And he did draft Diaw, Barbosa and Amare, to go along with Shawn Marion and Nash in FA. So it's not like he was being Donald Sterling with his wallet.

P: MDA made Nash.
CP: His coaching record without Nash says otherwise, and Nash's success without him does as well.

P: If only for X,Y,Z circumstances, surely be would have made the Finals and won a ring.
CP: You mean like losing the MVP to an ACL injury 2x, or 2 starters and replacing them with Vlad and Luke Walton, or your having a literal one man squad and making the Finals over a far superior team in the Pistons.

I mean that's not conjecture or opinion, those are facts. The assertion that he's not had enough in my opinion is inherently false, he had 2 All Stars + MVP + All NBA defender in one year, MVP+All Star+All NBA defender in the next season, 3 All Stars and 2 All Stars his last season and a bench that averaged about 30 points per game in those seasons, seriously that's not enough. Not enough pieces to at least make it once to the Finals?

 

[SORIANOTRON]

this thread sucks.

 

[mrdieselfuel09]

What were the Laker payrolls 08-09-10?

Just answer the question. (I'm on phone so can't look up)

CP still rockin with this

View media item 945228

 

[MVP]

Lakers payroll:

2008: $69 million (11th)
2009: $80 million (5th)
2010: $77 million (13th)

NBA Salary cap
2008: $56 million
2009: $59 million
2010: $58 million

Luxury Tax
2008: $68 million
2009: $71 million
2010: $70 million

What point am I missing here? Looks pretty comparable to what Sarver was doing in PHX.

Sarver went $4 mill over the tax in 2006, $12 million in 2007, and $5 million in 2008 compared to Jerry going $1 million in 2008, $9 million in 2009 and $7 million in 2010. So Sarver actually went $21 over the cap vs $17 mil from Jerry in the same time frame.

 

[darthska]

Doug Collins couldn't coach MJ to the promise land. Neither can Brooks for KD.

And now coaches don't help accelerate "natural growth"... I guess Kobe would of won 5 rings without Phil. Dat natural growth. Who needs a coach then right Ska?

#circumstances

I'm saying.

Kobe grew into who he is... because of Phil. (because the pro-Phil narrative works here, so there's no need for the 'That's what young players do' narrative.)

Now, Adam Morrison NOT growing into anything special under Phil (or ever), that's not on Phil (who IS to credit for Kobe's growth, because that's what good coaches do). That's just an example of... I guess... the right circumstances not befalling Adam?

And Jeremy Lin, well that was also because of the coach... because it's MDA. And he's great at inserting guys like that and maximizing their talent. 

 Give him an underrated guard and he'll FLOURISH in the MDA system.

But Kendall Marshall looking pedestrian under MDA... well... that's just, he just, because, see what had happened was...

(but the anti-MDA dudes are the only ones w/ double standards 

)

Were all in the same boat. Don't try to excuse yourself from the double standards. We all use circumstances to our benefit that help our stance, even if at other times we've been against those same circumstances.

PERIOD.

 

[CP1708]

Lakers payroll:

2008: $69 million (11th)
2009: $80 million (5th)
2010: $77 million (13th)

NBA Salary cap
2008: $56 million
2009: $59 million
2010: $58 million

Luxury Tax
2008: $68 million
2009: $71 million
2010: $70 million

What point am I missing here? Looks pretty comparable to what Sarver was doing in PHX.

Perfect. Thank you.

So again, Buss spent more than Sarver, tho worth less.

Now add Phil's contract (most in NBA) and you have Buss, with less income, spending more for his team.

But Sarver couldn't kick in 3-4-5 more million????



And LTB, did Durant not just have one of the greatest 82 game seasons in NBA history, and MVP?

I mean......

He improved on his own, not just cuz of Brooks.

Blake-Jordan improved due to natural growth, not just Doc. Hence, point.

 

[CP1708]

this thread sucks.

Then leave. And don't come back.

 

[CP1708]

Ska, LTB, we aren't pinning growth of super star talents on coaches.

Kobe year 1 to year 2 was big, under Del Harris.
2-3 was HUGE under Rambis.

Natural, superstar growth.

Bron, grew for years, Mike Brown. Mike. Brown.


Coaches help, of course, but the elites gonna grow regardless.

 

[darthska]

this thread sucks.

Then leave. And don't come back.

I'm saying. Can't stand comments like that.

Ain't nobody required to read our bullcrap.

 

[MVP]

Perfect. Thank you.

So again, Buss spent more than Sarver, tho worth less.

Now add Phil's contract (most in NBA) and you have Buss, with less income, spending more for his team.

But Sarver couldn't kick in 3-4-5 more million????



And LTB, did Durant not just have one of the greatest 82 game seasons in NBA history, and MVP?

I mean......

He improved on his own, not just cuz of Brooks.

Blake-Jordan improved due to natural growth, not just Doc. Hence, point.

So $21 mil is greater than $17 mil now? What about the extra 2-3 million for each of those draft picks that you swear would have helped him even though cap constraints would have alerted his team. I don't see how you're making any point at all. He didn't have a proven coach which is why MDA didn't command a salary anywhere near Phil's. Sarver was doing as much as we did during the PHX run as we were doing our chip run. There wasn't any crazy spending on personnel by Jerry. He got the right pieces, Phil coached em up and the rest is history.

 

[senorroboto2k5]

this thread sucks.

Then leave. And don't come back.

 

[darthska]

Ska, LTB, we aren't pinning growth of super star talents on coaches.

Kobe year 1 to year 2 was big, under Del Harris.
2-3 was HUGE under Rambis.

Natural, superstar growth.

Bron, grew for years, Mike Brown. Mike. Brown.

Coaches help, of course, but the elites gonna grow regardless.

So Jeremy Lin is NOT because of MDA, right? I can finally stop hearing that?

 

[CP1708]

Lin, Felton, Nash, Marshall, its a PG system thing.

 

[senorroboto2k5]

Funny you guys mention that... somewhere after the 50min mark of this interview, Baron talks about Linsanity & how Jeremy Lin and other PGs like Kendall Marshall look good because of D'Antoni's system




Not trying to pick a side, but it's interesting to hear from a guy who did play for MDA

 

[darthska]

Lin, Felton, Nash, Marshall, its a PG system thing.

So it IS because of the coach?

So Blake and Deandre COULD be improving because of Doc and his whole "Just one more win than VDN

"?

 

 

[licensed to ball]

Exactly

Where's seaman to point out the contradiction?

 

[CP1708]

Mamba, are you bad at math?

LA spends 4-5 more mil on roster PLUS the diff between Phil-MDA, that's what....10-12-15 million total? PER YEAR. 30-40ish over 3-4-5 years. (Estimates)

For the "poorer" owner.

Sarver couldn't pay just 2 draft picks, in 5 years?????

You struggle graspin this bruh?

 

[MVP]

Mamba, are you bad at math?

LA spends 4-5 more mil on roster PLUS the diff between Phil-MDA, that's what....10-12-15 million total? PER YEAR. 30-40ish over 3-4-5 years. (Estimates)

For the "poorer" owner.

Sarver couldn't pay just 2 draft picks, in 5 years?????

You struggle graspin this bruh?

Not at all, the numbers are relative to the cap and tax during those seasons. PHX in 2006 had a payroll of $65 million, the cap was $49 mil and tax $61 mil, they overspent the cap by 16 mil and went 4 mil over the luxury tax. Lakers in 2008 had a payroll of $69 mil, the cap was $56 mil and tax $68 mil, they overspent the cap by 13 mil and tax by 1 mil. How is that spending more on the roster?

The coach's salary is irrelevant in the equation. The Lakers also gave Rudy T 6 million a year. Sarver was worth $400 million, Dr. Buss $380 million. They both had plenty of money.

You said MDA didn't have enough talent (bench players, draft picks, whatever) because Sarver was cheap. I show the numbers say otherwise, and you go to oh but the coach, look at the what the coach was paid.

I show numbers that say hey, Spurs, Heat and Celtics were spending a similar amount for talent + coach (Pop making 4 mil, Doc making 5 mil) and got it done.

Why are you ignoring the fact that he spent more on personnel than Jerry did, not even including your hypothetical Rondo-Gortat-Luol fantasy.

Maybe Sarver's mistake was not using that extra 2-3 mil on a better coach.

 

[teamlakers909]

[h1]NBA Legend Kareem Abdul-Jabbar Rips BOTH SIDES in Donald Sterling ‘Scandal’[/h1]
By Top Right News on April 29, 2014 in Entertainment, Race, Sports

inShare43

by Scott Aberdeen | Top Right Sports

The NBA players, media, and grievance mongers such as Al Sharpton are up in arms over vile L.A. Clippers owner Donald Sterling’s alleged racist remarks. But NBA legend Kareem Abdul-Jabbar today said a pox on both your houses  – calling out the hypocrisy behind the whole affair and presenting by far the most rounded  – and surprisingly libertarian — view thus far.

Abdul-Jabbar, in an op-ed piece in TIME attacked the collective outrage emanating from America’s media over Sterling’s aremarks to his girlfriend, calling the publication of a private conversation “sleazy” and wondering why earlier, more public manifestations of racism failed to shock those such as Al Sharpton, and the NAACP.

Abdul-Jabbar explains  that we’re witnessing a veritable “finger-wagging Olympics . . . all over the latest in a long line of rich white celebrities to come out of the racist closet.”

“Yes, I’m angry, too,” Abdul-Jabbar admits, “but not just about the sins of Donald Sterling. I’ve got a list.”

That list includes Sterling’s girlfriend, V. Stiviano, whose voice is heard on the racially-loaded tape and who likely set the Clippers’ owner up.

“Man, what a winding road she led him down to get all of that out,” he mocked. “She was like a sexy nanny playing ‘pin the fried chicken on the Sambo.’ She blindfolded him and spun him around until he was just blathering all sorts of incoherent racist sound bites that had the news media peeing themselves with glee.”

And speaking of the news media? “They caught big game on a slow news day,” Abdul-Jabbar explained, “so they put his head on a pike, dubbed him Lord of the Flies, and danced around him whooping.”

The former NBA all-star, who played for the Milwaukee Bucks and L.A. Lakers from 1969 to 1989, has no sympathy for Sterling. But he is upset that everyone is acting so surprised, noting that the NBA owner has said offensive comments in the past and has been sued over both housing and employment discrimination.

The NAACP “did nothing” after Sterling was forced to pay a staggering $3 million fine for denying housing to Blacks, saying they “smell, and attract vermin,” Abdul-Jabbar noted. They were even going to present Sterling with an NAACP award on May 15th, with the Rev. Al Sharpton on hand. “Suddenly he says he doesn’t want his girlfriend posing with Magic Johnson on Instagram and we bring out the torches and rope. Shouldn’t we have all called for his resignation back then?”

Abdul-Jabbar is correct, but it is worse than that. The NAACP accepted multiple grants from the Donald T. Sterling Charitable Foundation and handed Sterling several “image awards” — despite full knowledge of his prior, massive fine for discrimination against Blacks in his slumlord housing.

Abdul-Jabbar, perhaps channeling his closet libertarianism, also blasted the fact that Sterling’s private conversation — however racist — was suddenly broadcast nationwide.

“Didn’t we just call to task the NSA for intruding into American citizen’s privacy in such an un-American way?” he asked, comparing the secret tape-recording to Mitt Romney’s embarrassing 47 percent remark, recorded without the then-candidate’s knowledge.

“The making and release of this tape is so sleazy that just listening to it makes me feel like an accomplice to the crime,” Abdul-Jabbar fumed. “We didn’t steal the cake but we’re all gorging ourselves on it.”

“So, if we’re all going to be outraged,” the former NBA star wrapped up, “let’s be outraged that we weren’t more outraged when his racism was first evident. Let’s be outraged that private conversations between people in an intimate relationship are recorded and publicly played. Let’s be outraged that whoever did the betraying will probably get a book deal, a sitcom, trade recipes with Hoda and Kathie Lee, and soon appear on ‘Celebrity Apprentice’ and ‘Dancing with the Stars.’”

Brilliant.

 

[CP1708]

Mamba, are you trying to say Sarver was NOT cheap?

Tell me you aren't implying that, please.

 

[CP1708]

Ok, just looked it up.

Phil got 3 years, 31.5 mil.
MDA got 3 years, 7.5 mil.

Sarver saved ALLLLLL that money, and refused to keep first round draft picks, for 5 years.

Like I said, go ahead and forget keeping all 5, but keep 2, 3, hell even 1, and maybe that's the difference when Stat and Diaw get suspended.

He saved around 24 million on coaching salaries, but couldn't put 3 mil into his bench.

What was the knock on Mike back then? Short rotation, and lack of defense.

Rondo, Deng, Gortat. Any 1-2-3 of these fill both knocks.

But hey, Sarver saved that 24 million, right?


Mamba, one last question. Would YOU, want Sarver as the Lakers owner? Yes, or no.

 

[MVP]

Mamba, are you trying to say Sarver was NOT cheap?

Tell me you aren't implying that, please.

Uh yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Do you have any figures to prove otherwise? Cause I can't find any. He spent what the other successful teams spent during that period, top 10 in league salary. He spent very comparably to Dr. Buss on personnneI. don't know what your definition of cheap is? Donald Sterling was cheap. He gave MDA plenty, I'm not going to detail it again.

Your crux that he was somehow frugal and left Nash out there with Smush Parkers, Chris Mihms, and Luke Waltons is way off base.

2006 Heat roster: Shaq, Wade, Zo, Payton, Posey, Haslem, J-Will, Walker, Wright, Kapono, S. Anderson
2006 Mavs roster: Dirk, Damp, Jet, Josh Howard, M. Daniels, Stack, Devin Harris, KVH, Diop
2007 Spurs roster: Tim, Tony, Manu, Bruce, Finley, Horry, Barry, Oberto, Udrich
2008 Celtics: KG, PP, Ray, Rondo, Perk, Tony Allen, Big Baby, PJ Brown, Posey, Sam Cassell, Powe
2008 Lakers: Kobe, Pau, LO, Vlad, Sasha, Farmar, Bynum, Ariza

You going to sit here and tell me the Suns roster doesn't compare to any of those with Steve, STAT, Matrix, Raja, Barbosa, Diaw, Tim Thomas, Kurt Thomas etc. They're all comprised of basically 2-3 All Stars, some draft picks and vets sprinkled in.

Ok, just looked it up.

Phil got 3 years, 31.5 mil.
MDA got 3 years, 7.5 mil.

Sarver saved ALLLLLL that money, and refused to keep first round draft picks, for 5 years.

Like I said, go ahead and forget keeping all 5, but keep 2, 3, hell even 1, and maybe that's the difference when Stat and Diaw get suspended.

He saved around 24 million on coaching salaries, but couldn't put 3 mil into his bench.

What was the knock on Mike back then? Short rotation, and lack of defense.

Rondo, Deng, Gortat. Any 1-2-3 of these fill both knocks.

But hey, Sarver saved that 24 million, right?


Mamba, one last question. Would YOU, want Sarver as the Lakers owner? Yes, or no.

Seeing the state of our franchise now with Jim running things and what PHX has now, yea I would. Not to mention him swindling us multiple years in a row, he's obviously got some smarts or smart people in charge.

I didn't know this was baseball and that the salaries were unlimited, I though for sure that there was a cap and any rookies he kept would have cost him some of their other pieces.