2014-15 Official Lakers Season Thread, Vol: We Love Each Other

[CP1708]

And Mamba, before you complain about bench, tell me that 06 without Stat (WCF) and 07 with BS suspensions (real Finals) a bench wouldn't have helped in those cases.

Like I said, Suns gave him 85%, then cut corners.

If we, (Jim, Mitch, Jeanie) give him 100%, like we did Phil, then Mike has a fair chance. Same as Phil, Pop, Doc, Spo, etc.

The Suns never set Mike up to succeed. They made his job harder than it should have been, especially knowing they were close.

 

[CP1708]

Welp. I tried to extend an olive branch, twice, on this page and was ignore both times by both of you.

Don't say I didn't try to be fair or give him a shot.

Who you talkin? I didn't know what what say you means.

 

[licensed to ball]

CP I can get with what you just said.
When you break things down like that it's a lot easier to understand your position.

I know we give you a hard time about not being objective but it's obvious when you make posts like that one that you truly are. When you look at things from both perspectives then there isn't anything that I can really argue. All I've ever wanted was for you to understand the flaws that we see, while we make an effort to see the positives that you see. Oh, and to not be so arrogant about others views with constant mockery

As long as we can all acknowledge that there are things he does exceptionally well, and he does other things not so well, I don't see any issues here.

I can agree with you gtb, and seaman on one thing and that it's worth seeing what he can do next season with a young prospect and maybe another piece through free agency (and a fully healthy supporting cast).

Since he is under contract, and better options are not CURRENTLY available (although that could change soon), there's no point to firing him and paying him while we pay another coach and waste even more money during a season that we can pretty much all agree won't go very far.

So it you guys say let's see what he can do with a fair shake.... Let's do it.

Let's see what he does next year with a healthier squad. But if his team quits on him or we continue to allow teams to score 140 a night even with better, healthier players... I don't wanna see the same excuses you guys have been using this year. I'd expect you guys to acknowledge that maybe, just maybe he's not as great as you thought he was.

And on the other hand, if the team does play better (doesn't have to be great, just better) defense, wins more games, and shows clear improvement then I'll be willing to admit that maybe you guys were right and he can coach pretty good with a little more help.

Would it be fair to agree to that? Gentlemans *handshake*, and just leave it at that? So we can peacefully focus on the draft and leave this alone until the season begins and our coaching is relevant to discuss again?

 

[MVP]

i mean..there's always a possibility that are better teams. his job is to maximize talent and put his guys in positions where they can succeed (which is probably his biggest flaw)

Ding ding ding. I've said that a million times. That's one of the principle features and jobs of a great coach. Getting the most out of the talent they have, ie Thibs.

 

[MVP]

I already outlined yesterday with the way the roster was constructed they wouldn't have been able to keep everyone they had and add the rookies. It wasn't financially possible, they would have had to move or eliminate other key pieces, Bell, Barbosa, Tim Thomas, Diaw etc. They were already at/over the cap and tax.

 

[menacin methods]

OK now i'm starting to get worried. It seems like Adam Silver plays by the book. Meaning the lottery won't be rigged and we will get the 6th pick

 

[WAKKO!]

OK now i'm starting to get worried. It seems like Adam Silver plays by the book. Meaning the lottery won't be rigged and we will get the 6th pick

But were the lakers though

 

[kingjaffejo]

If Magic & his financial group ends up buying the Clippers

 

[darthska]

Ska, LA was full strength in 91, I'm not getting what you sayin there.

As for Phil.......

Look, we breakin **** down for dudes scrappin for ONE title. Doc, Avery, Thibbs, MDA, Carlisle, Karl.....

Phil = 11.

Case. *******. Closed.

Cut his **** in half. Hell, take 75% of his **** off the top, he still has multiple rings.

Phil is/was a freak.

The guy won 6/8, then 3 straight again.

In 11 years he coached, he won 9.

Pop is SHOWERED with praise and glory, he has 4 in 18 years.

With 4 HOFers, a Bowen-Kawhi defender type support, and a stable GM/owner the ENTIRE time.

4/18

Phil went 9/11

Sucked for a couple years and finished with 2/8 with 2 of the 6 misses in the Finals.

19 years
13 Finals

2 of the 6 misses were MJ curveball era.

Pop, 5 Finals, 18 years.
Phil 13 Finals, 19 years.

Phil 4-1 vs Pop.

2 of Pop's 4 titles came in years Phil did not coach. (99-05)

Again, you can take half Phil's stuff, he still has more than Pop.
75%, he's almost still equal to Pop.

Then, I can say Mike never won til Phil.
Shaq-Kobe, never won til Phil.
Gasol never even won a playoff game, much less 3 Finals til Phil.

#circumstances

#fortunate

If he had no MJ, Kobe, Shaq, or Gasol... theeennn... George Karl status?

But FORTUNATELY, he DID have those guys, and none of them were injured or ejected or sick.

'S all it takes for a coach to be great: the right, circumstances.

Phil's not great because he's great; he's great because he never had a Steve Nash busted nose to worry about, never had a Gortat or a Rondo stripped from him, never had a STAT ejection thwart a championship run.

It's not him that's great; it's the circumstances he's managed to avoid.

Wanna be a great coach?

Avoid. Circumstances.

11 times.

MDA just, by golly, just keeps running into these circumstances.

It's not that he's bad. It's...

#circumstances

 

[MVP]

NBA Salary Cap:
2006: $49 million
2007: $53 million
2008: $55 million

Luxury tax:
2006: $61 million
2007: $65 million
2008: $67 million

PHX Suns payroll:
2006: $65 million
2007: $77 million
2008: $72 million

That's without any rookie contracts. They would have had to sacrifice other areas of their team it's not as simple as just adding players.

How quickly we forget when the Lakers were cheap until Pau landed in their laps. They wasted Kobe's best years by not putting enough talent around him. That's not the case at all in PHX, there was enough there. Because as you've said before no Amare suspension and they win the real finals that year vs the Spurs with no help needed from Nate, Rondo, or Gortat.

 

[had pants]

 

[MVP]

Finally just for comparison:

2006: Heat $63 million
2007: Spurs $66 million
2008: Boston $74 million

So in each year Sarver spent more or was right on par with the eventual NBA champion, but yea he didn't give MDA enough.

 

[CP1708]

What were the Laker payrolls 08-09-10?

 

[CP1708]

LTB, I'm with ya, just answering Mamba and Ska's rebuttals is all.

 

[menacin methods]

If Phil Jackson didn't join the Knicks you know he would want to partner with Magic and buy the Clippers.

 

[laker4lifeman]

You mean the Guggenheim Partners

 

[MVP]

What were the Laker payrolls 08-09-10?

What does that have to do with anything? One of our pet peeves with Mitch has been his propensity to trade draft picks and our lack of a bench yet Phil found a way to get out done.

Not everyone is willing to spend money just top spend it. He'll the Knicks were over $100 million for the better part of the decade and were a joke. It's about allocating they money wisely to put the pieces in place and hopefully the coach can maximize those pieces.

I mean they did draft Amare, Diaw and Barbosa and traded for Matrix while getting Steve Nash in FA. The pieces were there. I just showed you the champs from those years weren't spending an exorbitant amount.

Maybe MDA was just incapable or bad at getting the most out of everyone. Even your resident shadow in here said that's one of his faults.

There's more than one way to build a contender, some teams do it through the draft (Spurs, OKC) some do it through FA and trades (LAL, MIA) Some do it through a combination of both (DAL, BOS) I think Sarver would fall in the latter. He tried though, to say otherwise is just incorrect.

 

[sea manup]

Talking to mamba mvp is like talking to someone in a religon thread

"You're stupid for believing in a Muslim god, you cant trust a book like that"

"Of course god exists its in the bible!"

 

[licensed to ball]

I don't see the comparison at all.

I don't agree with everything Mamba says but he's displaying facts to back up his beliefs. You have to at least respect that.

Nothing like a religious debate with an extremist.

 

[sea manup]

Stop making excuses for amare missing the season

Cp3 missed 20 games so doc is a great coach


Even though phx was head and shoulders above mavs nash dantoni had nothing to do with that, all nash making dantoni

Look at the year deandre jordan is having!! Thats all because of doc. Blake too!!


Look at the payrolls of other good teams, phx clearly gave dantoni enough help

Brings up knicks to show that payroll doesnt mean talent


There are contradictions and double standards in every post

 

[CP1708]

What were the Laker payrolls 08-09-10?

Just answer the question. (I'm on phone so can't look up)

 

[licensed to ball]

Stop making excuses for amare missing the season

Cp3 missed 20 games so doc is a great coach


Even though phx was head and shoulders above mavs nash dantoni had nothing to do with that, all nash making dantoni

Look at the year deandre jordan is having!! Thats all because of doc. Blake too!!


Look at the payrolls of other good teams, phx clearly gave dantoni enough help

Brings up knicks to show that payroll doesnt mean talent


There are contradictions and double standards in every post

The same can be said for both you guys.
Were all in the same boat. Don't try to excuse yourself from the double standards. We all use circumstances to our benefit that help our stance, even if at other times we've been against those same circumstances.

You've displayed the same amount of hypocrisy as mamba, cp, or I ever have.

So if mamba is some crazy extremist of a poster, what makes you or I any better?

I've pointed out double standards far more often to no avail. But now they're an issue? Now double standards matter? Oh that's right, because NOW double standards are not on your side. Of course.

C'mon man. You're becoming more' black and white' than CP was ever perceived to be. At least he's making strides in seeing both sides. You seem stubbornly set on proving you're right with no efforts to see the other side of the fence.

Outta here with that man.

Go ahead and mock this post too as your response, since that's what your fall back plan is when you can't come up with a more reasonable response. Don't even care anymore.

You make posts celebrating how you successfully "baited" the thread into arguing again, then you wanna talk double standards. How about you stop trolling (which is what admitting to baiting the thread is) and then see if you would be taken more serious? How can you complain about Mamba being a crazy poster when you've recently admitted to posting just to stir the pot and ruffle feathers? Does that make you more of a mature poster than mamba? Whose the crazy one in that situation?

 

[sea manup]

No double standards here, all I do is use the same standards you guys set on dantoni when talking about other coaches.

There are no other sides to see. Dantoni has done some impressive things as coach and he has had some screw ups as a coach. Same with doc and thibs. Doc has won a championship so thats good, he was also talked about in the same way you guys talk about dantoni in 07.

Of course doc had big role in the improvement of blake and deandre. Just like dantoni had a big role in making steve nash into a 2 time mvp.

Should dantoni take some blame for our defense this year even with no defenders on the roster? Of course. Should thibs get the same blame on the offensive end? Of course

No double standards, forget that its dantoni which you guys seem to hate for some reason. Pretty much all of the things that make him a bad coach in your eyes also happen to these guys you consider good coaches.

 

[licensed to ball]

But I've already admitted there's more to a team than just coaching. Neither I or Mamba have said "it's all coaching, talent doesn't matter."

No.

We know talent matters.
You act as if we said MDA should of coached
This NBDL talent of a squad to a championship. No one said such a thing. All we wanted to see was some damn pride, and some defensive IMPROVEMENTS.

Of course these guys ain't build to be lock down defenders. But does that mean coaching can't help? Coaching if done can absolutely HELP, not PERFECT, but help any players skills even in the smallest showing.

The players looked worse defensively as the season went forward. Is it all on MDA? Nope. Not all his fault, he dealt with a TON of injuries and bad luck. BUT, it could of been a nice sign to see some of these players
Make some more strides. Sure he helped some of them out, it's not all negative.
Some of these role players excelled in his system. But to some of us, it just wasn't enough.

Just like how all the clippers issues aren't on Doc.

It's a mixture of skill and talent.

But from our eyes, our perspective, we see doc consistently improve his players more often than Mike has.

Mike and Doc both require good players to coach successful seasons, but doc looks like someone players would KILL to play with. Mike looks like someone players KILL to get away from.

It's just an observation. It's our thoughts. And you have yours. Leave it at that.

Don't point us out as hypocrits when we've all said hypocritical things on this forum.
We're not all right all the time. So why single US out? Only because we don't agree with you? C'mon.

That's all I'm sayin. @grandtheftbike

 

[CP1708]

When Mamba posts the numbers I asked for, the point will be simple.

LA spent a great deal in that 3 year window.

Remember that fact I posted yesterday, about Sarver net worth being greater than Buss????

I have more.

Sarver paid those salaries + MDA's salary.
Phil Jackson made way more than Mike. Meaning Buss paid his salary PLUS the highest paid coach, and again, Buss net worth, lower than Sarver.

How much does a mid 20's first round pick make?

A million? 1.5?

So the extra 3-4-5-6 mill it would have cost to keep 2-3 draft picks, would still be less than what Jerry spent + Phil, yes?

And Sarver had more money to start with.

Had he spent that 3-6 mil, he might have won a title, or two. Thus, more income. (Home playoff games + merch + consessions, etc)


Like I said. Phoenix was 85% there, and cheaped out.

LA got close, then pushed all in. Paid Phil, Kobe, Pau, LO, Bynum, etc etc. We went the full 100%.

Do that now, for Mike, and maybe he has better luck than in Phoenix.

Sadly, the Kobe deal is a bad start. The no trades of Pau, Hill, Kaman look like a 2nd bad step. Hopefully, those are just blips on the radar and Mitch gets back on track.