2015 NY Knicks offseason thread, Los Almighty appreciation thread

Lver of Jordan said:
Bargnani can deff kick rocks
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He can most definitely kick rocks... If he wants/gets more than the minimum.

But if Andrea Bargnani, who has proven himself to be a good veteran scorer who thrives within the triangle offense, is willing to stay on board for the veteran minimum contract, yall would still want him gone?

Some of yall need to learn how to let things go. Forgive and forget. Sure acquiring Bargnani for a first round pick was an awful terrible move, but it wasnt Bargs' fault and it sure as hell wasnt Phil Jackson's fault.

On the other hand the Knicks need to build a bench. They are not going to have a lot of money, if any, to go after bench players from the outside in free agency, and while I 100% agree that the current makeup of the Knicks team would make a solid bench, they are mostly all very young and you need some veteran presences around, even if not for the leadership aspect just because they are a lot more reliable.

Bargnani is more than capable of contributing 15-25 minutes off the bench and providing a solid scoring punch on a team that needs to find scoring behind Melo, our lotto pick, and whatever 2-3 big time free agents we bring in.

If Bargnani is willing to stay on board for the minimum because he likes the system and he likes NY, that is him doing us a favor, not the other way around. You dont turn him away.

And you know what you dont even need to guarantee him a spot. You hand him the vets min imum and you let him prove himself capable of a roster spot in training camp/free agency just like any other player. If he comes out without a sense of urgency, plays lazy D, and isnt willing to put the kind of work in that some of the younger and more hungry players are, then you can cut his ***. 

But if Bargnani takes the minimum and proves himself worthy of not only a roster spot but being a pretty valuable scoring threat off the bench, it would be downright ridiculous to not accept that,

I mean put personal pride and anger aside for 2 ******* seconds. This is a 0 risk potentially very high reward move. You can always cut a player making the vets minimum without thinking twice about it. You wouldnt even want to give Bargnani a chance to prove himself when it is no secret that we are going to have to get a little creative with our bench next season? Im glad some of yall arent in charge of the Knicks, you gotta be more open minded and rational.
 
unless your getting boogie, russ or steph it would be absolutely dumb to trade the draft pick especially after this horrible season
 
THE GR8EST said:
Lver of Jordan said:
Bargnani can deff kick rocks
Click to expand...
He can most definitely kick rocks... If he wants/gets more than the minimum.

But if Andrea Bargnani, who has proven himself to be a good veteran scorer who thrives within the triangle offense, is willing to stay on board for the veteran minimum contract, yall would still want him gone?

Some of yall need to learn how to let things go. Forgive and forget. Sure acquiring Bargnani for a first round pick was an awful terrible move, but it wasnt Bargs' fault and it sure as hell wasnt Phil Jackson's fault.

On the other hand the Knicks need to build a bench. They are not going to have a lot of money, if any, to go after bench players from the outside in free agency, and while I 100% agree that the current makeup of the Knicks team would make a solid bench, they are mostly all very young and you need some veteran presences around, even if not for the leadership aspect just because they are a lot more reliable.

Bargnani is more than capable of contributing 15-25 minutes off the bench and providing a solid scoring punch on a team that needs to find scoring behind Melo, our lotto pick, and whatever 2-3 big time free agents we bring in.

If Bargnani is willing to stay on board for the minimum because he likes the system and he likes NY, that is him doing us a favor, not the other way around. You dont turn him away.

And you know what you dont even need to guarantee him a spot. You hand him the vets min imum and you let him prove himself capable of a roster spot in training camp/free agency just like any other player. If he comes out without a sense of urgency, plays lazy D, and isnt willing to put the kind of work in that some of the younger and more hungry players are, then you can cut his ***. 

But if Bargnani takes the minimum and proves himself worthy of not only a roster spot but being a pretty valuable scoring threat off the bench, it would be downright ridiculous to not accept that,

I mean put personal pride and anger aside for 2 ******* seconds. This is a 0 risk potentially very high reward move. You can always cut a player making the vets minimum without thinking twice about it. You wouldnt even want to give Bargnani a chance to prove himself when it is no secret that we are going to have to get a little creative with our bench next season? Im glad some of yall arent in charge of the Knicks, you gotta be more open minded and rational.
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I completely agree w/ this. I'd take him for the minimum coming off the bench.
 
Bargnani isn't the type of guy you want around. Are we not trying to establish a winning culture here? Guys with his mentality just bring down overall team morale, he ain't motivated to play ball and its been well documented. He isn't someone I would want to depend on regardless of whatever role he's in. I've seen enough attempts at reclamation projects here.

Aside from that, you are right. At the absolute minimum it's not a risk. I just think its a waste of time.
 
I voted for Mariah. Who are you scumbags that voted for this?

katy-perry-without-makeup_11.jpg


Really? REALLY¿
 
She looks like she was trying to rip his tongue out.

Or was dripping acid funk spit into his mouth. Damn near killed him.
 
8PM at MSG said:
Bargnani isn't the type of guy you want around. Are we not trying to establish a winning culture here? Guys with his mentality just bring down overall team morale, he ain't motivated to play ball and its been well documented. He isn't someone I would want to depend on regardless of whatever role he's in. I've seen enough attempts at reclamation projects here.

Aside from that, you are right. At the absolute minimum it's not a risk. I just think its a waste of time.
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Oh its been well documented? Really? Ok then that must be my bad. Please show me some of these "well documented" accounts that Bargnani isnt motivated and doesnt care about winning and/or ksnt motivated to play basketball whatsoever and I will happily eat my words.

Because you are 100% right. We are trying to establish a winning culture here and you dont want guys who dont care about winning dragging down the rest of the team. Thats a major reason as to why we finally got rid of JR Smith's clown ***. However, I think a lot of yall are using your own personal vendettas against Bargs to make assumptions and criticisms about him that arent necessarily true or fair.

Basically building him up as some sort of team crushing super villain just because we gave up a 1st rounder to acquire him. Like do you seriously believe that if Toronto had released Bargs and we picked him up off of waivers for next to nothing instead of giving up a draft pick and paying him $15+ million you would be so adamant about getting rid of him? If Bargnani came to NY with the reputation of Chris Copeland do you still think that people would claim that he doesnt deserve to be brought back on a league minimum salary?

Honestly just think about that for a second. Lets say the Knicks found Bargnani out of the blue from Italy and brought him to the team this year like they did with Cope back in 2013, and even though the Knicks sucked, Bargnani showed glimpses of offensive brilliance within the triangle and averaged 15 PPG, do yall still honestly think that he shouldnt be retained for next season?

Personally, I highly doubt it. Which means that obviously his skill isnt the issue at hand. Few would argue that Bargnani isnt talented enough to warrant a veterans minimum contract for the Knicks next summer. Therefore in the very likely scenario that you fail to find any sort of reliable information backing up claims that Bargnani isnt motivated to play basketball at the highest level, or that his attitude/mentality drags down other teammates around him, I cant see any good reason to not want him back this summer for the minimum...

He's clearly better than any other league minimum player we could get, he clearly fits the system extremely well, and we will not have ample money to spend on a bench this summer. Sounds like a no brainer to me. 2 + 2 = 4

Sure, Bargnani may not be Charles ******* Oakley in terms of his mentality. He may have been grossly overpaid the past couple seasons, overvalued in the past, pretty terrible at protecting the rim and going after rebounds, and overall maybe a a tad bit soft. I wont deny any of that and I am by no means a Bargnani fan. However I am a Knicks fan and I do try and view things as rationally as possible. Bargnani has done nothing in the past that would lead me to believe that he has a bad attitude and/or doesnt want to win.

I mean you certainly dont want him to be the superstar of your team who's attitude and leadership paves the way as an influential example for the rest of the team. No ****. But he certainly hasn't done anything in the past that would lead me to believe he is some sort of a cancer who's presence alone would interfere with producing a winning atmosphere.

We have long established that Bargnani isnt perfect. If he was close to perfect then we wouldn't be getting him for the veteran's minimum. But thats just how it is with role players. You want them around to play a specific role for your team. And Bargnani has the ability to perform his specific role at a much higher level than any other player we will be able to go after this summer to be a role player. We need to take advantage of high value situations like this if Bargnani is willing to stick around.

That is exactly what Andrea Bargnani could do for the Knicks going forward. He will be able to come off the bench and play an important role as a 7 foot scoring big man who can hit it consistently from midrange and attack the basket. Thats about it, don't expect much more and he won't disappoint you. Attitude is all about perception. Consider anything additional to be a plus.

But when you look at this roster there are really no big men besides Bargnani with the ability to the score the ball. In fact the Knicks have very few players in general who can score the ball right now. Outside of Melo, Bargnani is arguably the most established scorer on our team. While the Knicks will almost certainly change that this summer through the draft, free agency, and trades, scorers will still be valued at a premium, especially coming off the bench. Bargs has shown this summer that he still has the ability to do that effectively and his skillset meshes ideally with the new system we are playing.

That is why I compared Bargnani's situation right now to Jared Jeffries' situation when Mike D'Antoni took over. Jeffries was a mega bust horrible transaction by the Isiah Thomas who's style of play ironically fit perfectly for the new regime (D'Antoni ball). Nobody really planned for that to happen, but D'Antoni just always valued versatile athletic big men who are able to run the floor and guard multiple positions, and Jeffries was able to do just that. And because of that JJ ended up redeeming himself in a way for his previous failures with the Knicks under a minimum contract with the new regime. 

Similarly, nobody planned for this to happen either. Phil Jackson was not brought to NY to find a way to utilize Andrea Bargnani. However, it just so happens that Jackson's triangle offense places a premium on offensively skilled big men with the ability to hit jump shots out to the three point line (mostly midrange) and find their teammates when they have the ball in the high post. From the start Fisher and Phil both hinted that this system could potentially be a great fit for the oft-injured Barganani, and I am sure that played in to the reasoning behind not parting ways with him like they did with Amare and Tyson. Then in the latter half of the year even with the Knicks out of contention, Bargnani showed that he does have some game left in the tank and that he can really flourish in the triangle.

If the current Knicks roster would make a good bench, then Bargnani would provide the best scoring punch available to come in at either power forward or center. Sure he leaves A LOT to be desired defensively, but all role players leave a lot to be desired somewhere. Hopefully the Knicks will have enough energy/defensive role players elsewhere to compensate for Bargnani's deficiencies on the less glamorous side of the ball.

I think playing in a new role without a big contract for the first time will light a fire under his ***. Bargs wants to win and he is not a cancer. He certainly will never be a team's leader but he is not the kind of player who would cause any issues regarding team chemistry or work ethic. If Bargnani does indeed decide that he wants to stay in NY for the minimum I do honestly believe that shows in a way that he does care about this team and winning in NY. There are a lot of ways Bargnani can go this summer. I am sure he could go back to Italy with his millions upon millions of dollars and be a superstar making more money playing out there than being a bench player playing on a minimum contract for a fanbase that often uses him as a scapegoat. But if he decides to stay on board I truly believe that will be predominantly because he has belief in Phil Jackson's vision and his role within the triangle offense enough to want to stick around and be a part of this culture changing process, and try to win back the hearts of Knick fans in the process.

So basically what am getting at is that unless I am widely off about Bargnani and he does have the type of attitude that is detrimental to building a winning foundation, retaining Bargnani for the minimum if we can should be a no brainer. And honestly I don't think there is anyone in the world who understands team chemistry quite like Phil Jackson. The "Zen Master" has perfected the art at knowing which players are salvageable and how to salvage them and which players aren't worth keeping better than anybody else in NBA History. Even if Bargnani does have a history of hurting team chemistry (which I still dont believe but regardless), I think that if Phil Jackson thinks he can get the most out of Bargnani on this team, he deserves the benefit of the doubt if only for areas regarding team chemistry. For Christ Sakes he got Dennis Rodman to mesh and flourish with the Chicago Bulls. The same ******* team he used to kick the **** out of. That is the NBA's version of finding team chemistry between Osama Bin Laden and the nation of Israel or some ****.

I think a lot of you are wrong about Bargnani's attitude. I think if this team builds a winning foundation that values teamwork and chemistry, Bargnani could surprise a lot of you as a valuable stretch 4/5 to bring off the bench which is a MAJOR weapon to just throw away, especially in today's NBA. Where I think a lot you look at Bargnani and his lack of team success and automatically assume "yeah he is a cancer, he doesnt care about winning," I think that you should take a different approach to it, and I think Phil and Fisher are definitely leaning more towards my type of approach as well.

The other approach is that instead of looking at Bargnani as being someone who kills a winning culture, look at it as Bargnani has never gotten the chance to be a part of a winning team. Clearly Bargnani is clearly very skilled and maybe his lack of success has more to do with his team's expecting too much out of him as a result of just not being very good in general more than him hurting his teams. Maybe if you try a completely new approach with Bargnani and utilize his strengths to make him into a ROLE player (by definition a player that is used for a specific ROLE, not his entire skillset), he could flourish and contribute to the winning culture we are trying to build in NY. 

The Knicks are going to need somebody who does what Bargnani does, it will be surely missed if we dont. I have news for all of you haters. The Knicks have no shot at getting somebody to do what Bargnani does as good as Bargs does this summer besides Bargs himself. A little philosophy lesson for yall hating *************.

Idk im tired. I dont even ******* know what I am babbling about at this point. I just know that it would be a huge mistake for the Knicks to turn away Bargnani if he was willing to accept the veteran's minimum. I mean we are barely in a position to turn down anyone for the minimum, but Bargnani IMO has a realistic chance to salvage his career in a lesser type of bench role (something he has never really tried before) on a winning team (something he has never really been on before). Plus we need some Italians on the Knicks. Lets inquire about the availability of Danilo while we are at it.
 
i think we hate Bargs because we gave up a 1st for him.

if we only gave up Camby & Novak it'd be alright.
 
nickmaz96 said:
i think we hate Bargs because we gave up a 1st for him.

if we only gave up Camby & Novak it'd be alright.
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No I hate him for the simple fact that we traded for him in the first place.

I was ok with Novak alone. Sure, he may have been one dimensional and may have disappeared in playoff games....but he did help win us a few games in the past. Bargs was just unnecessary baggage with a larger contract.
 
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