2015 NY Knicks offseason thread, Los Almighty appreciation thread

I remember when Sn was coaching that one season we did ok, the goal for the regular season was to win the Atlantic division.

I'm thinking this season the goal will be to keep our draft pick we traded away from making us look like the laughing stock yet again.

I don't think we'll have much else to play for. And I'm not gunna act like I know about who we should want ideally. But with the 4th pick it basically just means that we're likely to get the worst of the 2 bigs/PGs that the other teams didn't want.

The only player I really cared about getting was Towns, but that's not happening.
 
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Flyeed said:
But with the 4th pick it basically just means that we're likely to get the worst of the 2 bigs/PGs that the other teams didn't want.

The only player I really cared about getting was Towns, but that's not happening.
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Just remember that Steph Curry was picked after Tyreke Evans, Rubio, and Jonny Flynn (******* Hasheem Thabeet also, but im sticking with the PG theme). And he was honestly viewed as a reach, not so much because it became public knowledge that the Knicks wanted him at 8 (still 100% think that influenced the Dubs pick, btw, but regardless), but the point is that Curry was considered much lower on EVERY draft board than any of those PGs. People love to criticize the Twolves for drafting 2 PGs ahead of Curry, and honestly it was dumb to do (especially because they were trying to run the triangle at the time), but the hard fact is (despite all the "in retrospect experts" out there), that Rubio and Flynn were considered the BPA on 99% of draft boards at the time.

Most teams (at least 2 seperate ******* teams, because I am far from trying to call David Khan a smart GM) likely make those same selections back to back. Same even with other criticized picks Khan made like Derrick Williams at #2.

EVERY ******* mock had Williams going 2nd in that draft, it was a no brainer. Khan was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and he made the safe pick. He gets a lot of **** from that, but fact remains that Khan very rarely "reached." If you look at his track record, Khan mostly took the consensus BPA, and just look at how that has worked out for him in his short lived Minnesota tenure. Some times the consensus works, but a lot of other times, it doesnt.

It all goes back to what I was saying about David Lee earlier, really. You could evaluate these ******* prospects all ******* long, break down every little bit of their game and/or character, the fact is that "professionalism" skill and desire/will to be great internally is unrecognizable at this point in the time. The ******* players dont even know if they will have this drive yet, they just dont, let alone ******* scouts. These players can talk about wanting to be great all they want, and im sure they even all believe it, but the fact is that EVERY ******* prospect says this. Yet, There are very few David Lee's out there who will just stop at nothing to be great despite their surroundings. And this comes with time as well so it is impossible to discern.

People truly underestimated Steph Curry's desire to be great. IMO the desire was always there, but the professionalism was developed over time. Many prospects with this same "desire" fail to ever become a "professional." Others simply lack the desire. But combing both forces into success is extremely difficult to do and even more tough to predict, no matter how hard we might try to.

I cant fault the scouts because it was impossible to say at the time that Curry "wanted it more" than Jonny Flynn. I dont even think that would have been totally true. Flynn was a ******* super hero at the time. As good as Curry was at Davidson, Flynn ******* carrying Cuse on his back through 6 OTs was still fresh on everybody's mind. He was the next Chris Paul in many minds. He didnt pan out. You win some and you lose some.

If there is one thing you can always expect from me (besides long, usually explicit filled, rants) it is honesty. I consider myself to be very good in not letting time skew my judgement. If I hated a player who ended up sucking (Eddy Curry) I will fully admit that. If I placed a lot of faith in a player that ultimately let me down (Marbury, but not totally all his fault, JR mental ******* ****** Smith), I will own up to that as well. I will always try and level with yall when it comes to this ****, as best as my memory allows.

I wanted Curry to fall to the Knicks at 8 that year. Badly. I fully will admit that. I wanted to see that scrawny ************* assasain that I watched at Davidson out in the bright lights of MSG running DAntoni ball. And he likely would have been great, obviously. But at the same time I also wanted Curry because he was the most realistic target of the bunch. If the Knicks had selected Curry with Flynn or Rubio still on the board (again, unrealistic, but still), I will fully admit that my 2009 senior in high school *** would have left that draft unhappy.

Of course a lot of this has to do with surroundings. Trying to get Flynn to run that broken triangle in Minnesota was a recipe for disaster. I honestly think he would have panned out very differently playing in his native NY under Dantoni. I truly do. But the point is, dont be discouraged because we might end up with the player "other teams dont want." Other teams have been wrong in the past and they will continue to be wrong in the future. It isnt even all their faults. Like I said, alot of this **** is IMPOSSIBLE to discern at that age because the players themselves are all babys. They have never had to deal with the rise and grind of the NBA. How could they know if they will handle it all like a real professional and also maintain the desire to be great?

Not to sound like a complete ****, but I can compare the mentality to pledging my frat in college. I have seen soooo many hot headed freshman come in thinking they will absolutely crush pledging. I have seen many of those same kids drop. They honestly believed they could take what was coming, but it was just never there inside. They didnt even ******* know.

The same is true of these draft prospects. It is not too difficult to spot a diamond in a rough, so to speak, especially in a draft as good as this one is. Especially if you put them in the right surroundings to succeed. But even then, it is on them to actually go out and execute. ******* go out and get the job done.

It is even more of a gem to find a kid who will take it upon himself to ******* succeed no matter the **** he is handed, like David Lee did on those garbage Knicks teams that couldnt develop their players. Lee was a true outlier in every sense of the word. So is Curry. You cant rely on that, but you can rely on doing what you think is best and hoping for just that.

Like mental ******* ****** Earl Joseph Smith III even said himself, "One man's trash is another's treasure." **** what the scouts in Minnesota, LA, and Philly think, you do you Phil (until you **** up and I eat those words, of course).
 
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Shout out to The GR8ST for his last couple posts :pimp:

On another note, I'm tired of hearing that LeBron automatically makes every team a championship contender. The fact of the matter is, every team LeBron goes to, he gets exactly what he wants...and the personnel he needs to play the way he wants to play. He automatically gets the offense he wants, and a plethora of shooters so he can just drive and kick to them all game. So yes, LeBron CAN go to any team and win because they will change the team and the offensive system until it suits him to a T. So yes, Melo needs a good PG to win. Just like LeBron needs knock down shooters standing around the perimeter to win. They all need certain things to be successful. Some players just don't get the things they need to be successful...and some do.
 
No idea what drafting Winslow means for the Knicks... But considering he's a 3, and Melo is now a 4... It isn't good.

Means Rondo would be more likely in play. Along with 2 other 2nd - 3rd tier guys.

2016 cap is largely squandered on piecing together 2015 roster.


Just take the PG, and leave yourself open to make FA moves this year and next Phil.
 
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DMVisRNB said:
Shout out to The GR8ST for his last couple posts :pimp:

On another note, I'm tired of hearing that LeBron automatically makes every team a championship contender. The fact of the matter is, every team LeBron goes to, he gets exactly what he wants...and the personnel he needs to play the way he wants to play. He automatically gets the offense he wants, and a plethora of shooters so he can just drive and kick to them all game. So yes, LeBron CAN go to any team and win because they will change the team and the offensive system until it suits him to a T. So yes, Melo needs a good PG to win. Just like LeBron needs knock down shooters standing around the perimeter to win. They all need certain things to be successful. Some players just don't get the things they need to be successful...and some do.
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sombodybody ban him, QUICK! He is making toooo much sense in here
 
you can sign a 3 for a good price but getting a cheap 1 or 5 isn't easy. should be our only two positions of concern. go with mudiay or okafor and fill out the roster in free agency.
 
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thats why if we end up with okafor, trade back for WCS and somehow get another pick, so we can draft cameron payne, jerian grant, or even tyus jones

late round PG/gallo
THJR/carrol
melo/cle
monroe/acy/smith
WCS/robin lopez
 
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RavageBX said:
 
Mudiay is the guy you guys have convinced yourselves you want. He's not who you really want. I just don't see it. If that's who we end up I pray it works out but when them lights hit in the garden you need a guy who can fill it up when necessary. Russell is the better option.
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*pound and daps*

I'm kind of getting over it now and won't 'eem be mad if it's Muddy, but let's not get it twisted...Russ is still that guy. 
Originally Posted by JohnnyRedStorm  
JoeClear said:
clyde the glide said:
okafor isnt even the first duke player i would select in this draft
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This dude is smoking that crack pipe
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I'm just sitting here like DSK taking notes with all this outlandish stuff being said.
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No note-taking on NT for me my dude. 

Memory of an elephant. 
smokin.gif
 
 
What about these scenarios?

If New York is interested in adding a point guard but isn't in love with either top (available)  prospect in the draft, the Denver Nuggets  may be able to help.

They're in a transition phase between regimes, and the Denver Post's Chris Dempsey  reported in May that Ty Lawson's time in Denver could be running out.

Nuggets management may wish to draft its own point guard, and either Mudiay or Russell will likely be there at No. 4. With the Nuggets looking to shed salary, taking back Jose Calderon's $7 million deal wouldn't be an easy task but would be necessary to make the trade legal.

This is why New York would need to sweeten the pot by adding Tim Hardaway Jr. A low-salary player—say—Quincy Acy, would also need to be thrown in to make it work.

(These stipulations apply if the teams want to get a deal done on draft night. After July 1, New York would simply be able to absorb Lawson into its cap space, and Denver wouldn't need to accept Calderon in return.)

Potential trade with Denver[table][tr][td]DEN GETS[/td][td]NY GETS[/td][/tr][tr][td]No. 4 pick[/td][td]No. 7 pick[/td][/tr][tr][td]Jose Calderon[/td][td]Ty Lawson[/td][/tr][tr][td]Tim Hardaway Jr.[/td][td]Future pick[/td][/tr][tr][td]Quincy Acy[/td][td]  [/td][/tr][/table]
Bleacher Report

Acquiring the No. 7 pick, Lawson and a future pick for the No. 4 selection, Calderon, Hardaway and a throw-in would accomplish several things.

The point guard position would be shored up for at least the next two years by a player who's relatively young (27) and a potential All-Star in the Eastern Conference. A top prospect will be available at No. 7, whether it be Cauley-Stein, Porzingis or Hezonja. And netting a future pick—possibly getting back into the 2016 first round would be the kicker—depends on how badly Denver desires to move up.

Both players have evolved since, but Lawson and Anthony have enjoyed decent history together. In each of the point guard's first two NBA campaigns, the Nuggets outscored their opponents by more than six points per 100 possessions when Anthony and Lawson shared the court, according to Basketball-Reference.com.

New York would still have about $20 million in cap space to spend in free agency, and after a poor season adjusting to the triangle, Hardaway's future with the Knicks is already in question. That's a potential void that could be easily filled.

If Denver truly desires to move on from the George Karl era, dealing Lawson would be the biggest step in that direction. If New York puts the right package together, it could be the beneficiary.

Acquiring Darren Collison from the Kings

The Knicks have been linked  to Darren Collison in trades before, but draft day could provide them with a chance to land the point guard while maintaining a shot at drafting top-tier talent. 

Potential trade with Sacramento[table][tr][td]SAC GETS[/td][td]NY GETS[/td][/tr][tr][td]No. 4 Pick[/td][td]No. 6 Pick[/td][/tr][tr][td]Jose Calderon[/td][td]Darren Collison[/td][/tr][tr][td]  [/td][td]Nik Stauskas[/td][/tr][/table]
Bleacher Report

Swapping the fourth pick for the sixth pick, and swapping Calderon for Collison and Nik Stauskas, would be worthwhile for both sides—assuming that Karl desires the Kings to draft his own point guard heading into his first full season in Sacramento. Karl would have his wish, while Calderon could fill a role as a reliable three-point shooter and point man off the bench.

His $7 million salary figure shouldn't matter as much to the Kings, who aren't projected  to have much cap room this summer regardless, according to Basketball Insiders.

The Knicks could either run with Collison as their starting point guard or look to draft another—possibly Payne at No. 6, if Jackson likes him enough to reach that far—or add one  via free agency. 

  • Before suffering a season-ending injury after 45 games, Collison was averaging a career high in points with 16.1 to go along with 5.1 assists.
  •  

Stauskas struggled with his shot for much of the year but did shoot 42 percent from three-point range once his minutes became more consistent over the final 22 games. In a perfect world, he could be what Hardaway was during his rookie season. On a cheap contract, he's worth a flier, especially since he won't be taking any cap room away from New York—he and Collison combine to match Calderon's $7 million.

Karl would have a lead guard in either Mudiay or Russell to run the show with pace and find DeMarcus Cousins, while also creating for himself. If the coach plans on making a statement in his first summer with Sacramento, this would surely work.

Taking Brandon Jennings  in a low-risk, high-reward deal

According  to  several  projections  and comments, it sounds an awful lot like Stanley Johnson and the Detroit Pistons  are a match made in heaven. 

Leave it to the Knicks to ruin a good thing. 

If Jackson is feeling extra diabolical on draft night, he could reach for Johnson at No. 4, only to dangle him back to Detroit, who picks eighth, for a price: No. 8, No. 38 and Brandon Jennings. Calderon's salary would be needed to make the money match.

Potential trade with Detroit[table][tr][td]DET GETS[/td][td]NY GETS[/td][/tr][tr][td]No. 4 Pick[/td][td]No. 8 Pick[/td][/tr][tr][td]Jose Calderon[/td][td]No. 38 Pick[/td][/tr][tr][td]  [/td][td]Brandon Jennings[/td][/tr][/table]
Bleacher Report

Jennings' $8.3 million comes off the books after next season, and after Stan Van Gundy traded for Reggie Jackson at the deadline, it's reasonable to think the Pistons are interested in re-signing the latter.

  • Detroit needs shooting, and Calderon can provide that as a reserve. He shot 52 percent from distance over 28 games with the Pistons in 2012-13 and is a much better complement to Jackson than Jennings would be.
  •  

For the Knicks, Jennings would get a shot at running the triangle. He's coming off his best year as a pro—albeit an injury-shortened one—averaging 15.4 points and 6.6 assists with a career-best  52.2 true shooting percentage and 19.7 player efficiency rating over 41 games.

He wouldn't cost New York any free-agent money, and if it doesn't pan out, the team can let him walk after one season—essentially freeing themselves of Calderon's final contract year.

[h4]Should the Knicks trade down from No. 4?[/h4]
YesNoSUBMIT VOTE  vote to see result

At No. 8, the Knicks would be in a position to draft several players Jackson has been linked to including Lyles, Payne and possibly Cauley-Stein. Depending on how tentative teams are to select European talent, Porzingis or Hezonja could be waiting there as well.

The argument could be made that New York should simply sit back at No. 4 and select the player with the highest probability of panning out. But with the Knicks, it's rarely that simple. 

Jackson will undoubtedly assess any and every option the Knicks have with the fourth selection, so be prepared for even more rumors and speculation until June 25.
 
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Not interested whatsoever. Basically punting the 4th pick to get rid of Caldo's contract while taking back even more salary.
 
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