2017 NBA Playoffs Thread - CLE @ BOS Game 5 on TNT

[freeze]

I hate to see the slander the one year Bron isn't in the finals

I got the guitar case filled with ratchets like banderas waiting for that day. Cant wait to call him washed once and for all.

 

[P C H]

I feel like if you're a pick and roll player you need a midrange jumper. Minus Harden and curry

I would agree somewhat. I don't know if I would say 'need' (Just because most guards don't even take those shots with any regularity) but it definitely kind of makes pick and roll stuff harder to defend just because Bigs are in drop all the time. (See every big from the Utah Jazz for example)

And at the same time, if you can't consistently make that midrange jumper then you're probably better off trying to get to the rim, or starting the PnR higher so you can shoot a 3 instead.

 

[captaintuxable]

Originally Posted by trueprada  /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Happy Birthday "Coach"

 

[P C H]

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

yup... Utah and Gs is boring. Same with Cleveland and Toronto. I ain't trying to watch light weights play heavy weights. Boring af
.

It dropping 50 just shows how much D sucks nowadays.a straight joke. Don't want to ever hear anyone say how much better defense is nowadays

Both teams had damn near 70 in the first half but defense is better now

 

[abematic]

Does athleticism really play a role in saying who is a more complete player? Being athletic isn't really a skill, IMO.

 
It's a skill that can't be taught, u either have it or u don't

Boom. 

That is what makes Horford a tad more complete. 

Being complete doesn't mean he's "better", just mean his more versatile in the game of basketball. 

 

[Hank Scorpio]

It's 2017. Who cares about a midrange game? He hasn't perfected the worst shot in basketball, oh no.

The entire league is moving away from that area of the floor.

If you weren't so dissmissive, you'd realize just how important a mid-range game is. Yes, the league is moving towards the 3-ball being a premium, but as everything in life what's used the most is also studied and combated against. Eventually NBA defenses will get better at running players off the line and forcing players to use the mid-range.

It's naturally the next progression to the NBA game. MJ in his twilight years became a dominate mid-range shooter because of his physical gifts drifting away year after year. It's actually the smartest move to make when you're going to regress. MJ did it, Kobe did it. LeBron has to do it eventually if he wants to conserve his body for the long haul.

But what happens when you play a team that can run you off of that 3 point line and pack the paint. It's not a necessity to have a jumper in today's game but it's a great thing to have in the arsenal.

Exactly. The mid-range is the future.

 

[thirdtimearound]

Happy Birthday "Coach"

I hate that it had to happen to Lue. Phil placed him on AI and he was hounding him and making him work for his points whenever he was in the game

Lakers were up by 5 with like 2:30 left in OT (partially thanks to Lues defense) AND they had the ball, but a stupid offensive foul by Horry led to a make by Raja Bel, then 7 straight points by AI. There were 30 seconds left at that point.

Makes me sick. Had Horry not made that stupid foul that completely changed the momentum of the game, Lakers could've scored or at least ran the clock down more, and would have most likely gone 15-0.

At least Horry redeemed himself the next year tho

 

[getback]

Youve got to be trolling this foolishness. Swallow every ounce of your spit b.

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

The worst shot in basketball is the contested shot. If the midranger is open you gotta knock that down

 

[P C H]

If you weren't so dissmissive, you'd realize just how important a mid-range game is. Yes, the league is moving towards the 3-ball being a premium, but as everything in life what's used the most is also studied and combated against. Eventually NBA defenses will get better at running players off the line and forcing players to use the mid-range.

It's naturally the next progression to the NBA game. MJ in his twilight years became a dominate mid-range shooter because of his physical gifts drifting away year after year. It's actually the smartest move to make when you're going to regress. MJ did it, Kobe did it. LeBron has to do it eventually if he wants to conserve his body for the long haul.
Exactly. The mid-range is the future.

Man MJ had a TS% of under 50% in his twilight years (assuming you meant his time with the wizards) and barely eclipsed 40% from the midrange area during this time

Dominant midrange shooter? Yeah no he just took a ton of them

 

[addict4sneakers]

It's 2017. Who cares about a midrange game? He hasn't perfected the worst shot in basketball, oh no.

The entire league is moving away from that area of the floor.

If you weren't so dissmissive, you'd realize just how important a mid-range game is. Yes, the league is moving towards the 3-ball being a premium, but as everything in life what's used the most is also studied and combated against. Eventually NBA defenses will get better at running players off the line and forcing players to use the mid-range.

It's naturally the next progression to the NBA game. MJ in his twilight years became a dominate mid-range shooter because of his physical gifts drifting away year after year. It's actually the smartest move to make when you're going to regress. MJ did it, Kobe did it. LeBron has to do it eventually if he wants to conserve his body for the long haul.

But what happens when you play a team that can run you off of that 3 point line and pack the paint. It's not a necessity to have a jumper in today's game but it's a great thing to have in the arsenal.

Exactly. The mid-range is the future.

But guys that are getting ran off the 3 pt line are making the defense collapse and they're kicking to open 3 point shooters.

It's not essential to anyone outside of PNR players if you ask me.

 

[Hank Scorpio]

The worst shot in basketball is the contested shot. If the midranger is open you gotta knock that down

I think Pop has chimed in on the growing importance of the mid-range shot as well.

I mean, think about it. If you're forced off the line and can't get into the paint, what's left to do? Either kick it out or take the mid-range.

MJ was never the best 3 point shooter and he didn't want to compromise his body going inside. So he developed a back to the basket, fadeaway midrange jumper which was arguably his deadliest move in his career.

Now, Lebron doesn't have the footwork MJ had or even close to Kobe's, but if he worked on his mid-range, it'd would neutralize his physical abilities regressing.

 

[nick.]

The worst shot in basketball is the contested shot. If the midranger is open you gotta knock that down

You can tell this man hoops

 

[Hank Scorpio]

But guys that are getting ran off the 3 pt line are making the defense collapse and they're kicking to open 3 point shooters.

It's not essential to anyone outside of PNR players if you ask me.

This is true, but we're talking about LeBron "regressing" here. I don't think we'll ever come to a point where defenders are running him off the line. He's either going to get that shot or drive inside.

What' i'm suggesting is that eventually he'll have to work in the mid-range once he losses his speed and strength. He won't be able to "bulldoze" his way to the rim anymore. Defenders who give him cushion will have a greater advantage at point, unless he develops that mid-range. Or at least can put him back to the basket and get off a clean shot.

 

[P C H]

Most midrange jumpers are not open though unless they come from players playing in PnR, to addicted's point

So with that, unless you can hit a high % of those midrange jumpers (most of which are contested) then you probably shouldn't be shooting them. You won't make enough of them for it to be a viable shot offensively

 

[dland24]

Can we also agree the plus minus stat is the most overrated stat in basketball? Beal has a better plus minus then Wall does. We as viewers all know that's BS. Wall has shown up more then Beal in these playoffs. Stat mean nothing.

I think using it from game to game can be incredibly misleading.  But I think using it over the course of a season, series, ___ period of time in general, it can be a very telling stat.

 

[addict4sneakers]

Lebron regressing is still a better athlete than a Draymond Green though.

If Lebrons athleticism is completely washed, he can just be a full time screen setter. And boom you have the best playmaker in the league at the top of the key looking at 3 defenders.

You can turn him into James Jones and have him running 4/5 PNRs. You're guard switches like the Pacers did you have to double him or he scores.

 

[Hank Scorpio]

Most midrange jumpers are not open though unless they come from players playing in PnR, to addicted's point

So with that, unless you can hit a high % of those midrange jumpers (most of which are contested) then you probably shouldn't be shooting them. You won't make enough of them for it to be a viable shot offensively

Addict is correct, but there are exceptions to this. Kobe damn near stole MJ's entire game at the end of his career

 

[JD617]

It's 2017. Who cares about a midrange game? He hasn't perfected the worst shot in basketball, oh no.

The entire league is moving away from that area of the floor.

If you weren't so dissmissive, you'd realize just how important a mid-range game is. Yes, the league is moving towards the 3-ball being a premium, but as everything in life what's used the most is also studied and combated against. Eventually NBA defenses will get better at running players off the line and forcing players to use the mid-range.

You think defenses around the league haven't already realized this and been trying to do that? They have. The Pacers teams with Vogel and Roy Hibbert before he became a statue were all about protecting the rim and 3 point line at all costs and would try to bait the other team into taking midrange jumpers. It's still not that easy and like A4S said, good offenses will still try to drive and kick for a three.

 

[addict4sneakers]

I wouldn't compare Lebrons eventual decline to two SGs who were great ISO players. Lebron is going to be able to play PNR basketball as long as he wants to

 

[P C H]

Addict is correct, but there are exceptions to this. Kobe damn near stole MJ's entire game at the end of his career

You're proving my point though

Kobes last 3 years he was awful from the midrange. Jordan's last 2 years he was awful in this area as well. They did take a lot of them though, which is my point.

If you can't make the midrange jumper at an elite rate then you're costing your team by taking them and most players can't do it makes no sense to worry abt it especially if you're a generic freak like lebron who even in his twilight years, will be a better athlete than Jordan and Kobe health provided

 

[art vandelay]

^^^ the most beautiful shot form from MJ

 

[Hank Scorpio]

You think defenses around the league haven't already realized this and been trying to do that? They have. The Pacers teams with Vogel and Roy Hibbert before he became a statue were all about protecting the rim and 3 point line at all costs and would try to bait the other team into taking midrange jumpers. It's still not that easy and like A4S said, good offenses will still try to drive and kick for a three.

I agree. Naturally when the 3-point shot is at such a high premium, you're going to instinctively kick out for the open 3, but the defenses are becoming more protective of the 3-ball. You will see guys sticking to their man. Eventually the mid-range will be what the defense gives. Just like defense for anything else, you take some stuff away, but that means you're going to have to give something as well.

The mid-range will be given a lot more in tomorrows NBA.

 

[P C H]

I mean if we're keeping it a buck Kobe and the midrange isn't someone you would bring up as an example

He was never that good in that area, just shot a ton of them, most of which were contested