2024 MLB Thread; RIP Willie Mays & Pete Rose. Dodgers win #8!

[ShoeGameBoss]

My argument for these guys not getting in is simply they were Hall of Famers before gettin involved with roids. Ortiz would not be in without that little league ballpark and roids. I know people who are in the DR who laugh and know where and who got it from. Ortiz was a nobody in Minnesota, average power 1st basemen with no glove. He goes to Boston , learns how to hit the other way and juices up whenever he did to become a great player, not a HOFamer tho. Bonds, Clemens, Arod were on their way to the Hall without the junk. No idea why they ever thought they needed it but no one , if u watch baseball, thought they weren't automatics. They just broke the rules but again, they were in before they did and thats not even a question. Ortiz is only in cause he broke the curse and became a character for the people to love. If Ortiz had Bond's attitude u think he gets in ? Hell no, he'd be tossed in the fire with everyone else. It's not cause he was with the Sox or killed the Yanks either that i feel like this. He helped break a historic drought and people love his character. Guy was shot by drug dealers , ever hear about Clemons or Bonds getting shot by drug dealers. Just a salty Yankee fan who thinks if u say this is the rule and u don't get in but this guy can cause we like him is wrong.


Clemons statement if no ones seen it

Sad man ...

One can argue that Arod was on tour since day 1 damn near though.

 

[DeadsetAce]

as much as I love Ortiz, I agree with onewearz . Bonds and Clemens are elite without the "help". Ortiz probably is not elite without the "help"...just what it is

that said, i'm not in the steroids taints legacy camp either. all three belong in the HOF. it (and cheating) is 100% part of the baseball culture and history at this point. we're not vacating wins, stats, etc...

 

[ShoeGameBoss]

Does Barry really hit 70 plus homers without roids?

 

[JD617]

He helped break a historic drought and people love his character. Guy was shot by drug dealers , ever hear about Clemons or Bonds getting shot by drug dealers.

Clemens was ******* a 15 year old girl when he was 28 years old. He's a rapist. And she later went on to commit suicide.

 

[darthska]

Does Barry really hit 70 plus homers without roids?

Is Babe the Sultan of Swat playing black people?

'Well he couldn't control that. He just did his job."

Pine tar, corked bats, sandpaper & spitballs. Plenty of HOFers benefited from uncaught cheating.

-foe

 

[rolaholic]

FYI for everyone



Same goes for McGwire, Sosa and Clemens too

 

[GreenNGold89]

Does Barry really hit 70 plus homers without roids?

Who knows but he was a 400/400 player by 1999. He should be in.

 

[darthska]

Clemens was ****ing a 15 year old girl when he was 28 years old

Wait, what?

-foe

 

[rolaholic]

Clemens was ****ing a 15 year old girl when he was 28 years old. He's a rapist. And she later went on to commit suicide.

Yea I don't understand going that moral superiority route in trying to **** on Big Papi for almost getting killed while propping up some of others as if they weren't scumbags themselves

Objectively they all should get in for their performance and contributions to the game IMO, but it's not a new concept nor is it exclusive to baseball/sports that having people like you can help out in life at times so been funny seeing some of the outrage aimed specifically at that aspect of it.

You can criticize the process itself without resorting to the faux moral outrage route that the very same baseball writers we drag constantly use themselves

 

[JD617]

Wait, what?

-foe

On Mindy McCready, and why PEDs aren’t why Roger Clemens belongs outside the Hall of Fame

Sometimes, the character clause should matter. This is one of those times.

www.beyondtheboxscore.com

There's at least one voter who specified that he didn't vote for Clemens for that reason.

 

[DeadsetAce]

who is on the 16 person committee that can elect the guys that get dropped? hopefully a different set of voters?

 

[rolaholic]

who is on the 16 person committee that can elect the guys that get dropped? hopefully a different set of voters?

Don't think it's ever made public who's in it but got this from the hall website:

Name: The Today's Game Committee ("The Committee") shall refer to the electorate that considers retired Major League Baseball players no longer eligible for election by the Baseball Writers' Association of America (BBWAA), along with managers, umpires and executives, whose greatest contributions to the game were realized from the 1988-2016 era.

Membership: The Today's Game Committee shall consist of 16 members, comprised of members of the National Baseball Hall of Fame, executives, and veteran media members. The Chairman of the Board of Directors of the National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum, Inc. shall act as the non-voting chairman of the committee and shall act as non-voting Secretary of the Committee.

Would imagine they'd be a different set of voters from the regular writers voting bloc since it's a whole different exclusive committee.

 

[RyGuy45]

who is on the 16 person committee that can elect the guys that get dropped? hopefully a different set of voters?

It's a mix of members of the MLB, executives, and senior media members. I believe they cycle in new voters every few years,

It's an entirely separate group judging ya and you gotta get 75%.

 

[luisfigo]

who is on the 16 person committee that can elect the guys that get dropped? hopefully a different set of voters?

mostly made up of hall of famers and executives. was listening to bay area radio this morning and they ran off some names the last few years. joe morgan, roberto alomar, maddux, big hurt, ozzie, eck. tim kurkjan. which also needs like 70% of the vote too to be elected.

 

[CP1708]

I remember an awful lot of folks clutching pearls over the Astros cheating, but want all the cheaters allowed into the HOF.......

It's why I said FROM JUMP, let'em all in. You can * them, or Separate wing them, or say nothing, but they belong, period.

Rose
Bonds
Clemens
Schilling
McGwire
Sosa
Palmeiro
A-Rod
Manny

ALL belong in the Hall. And when Altuve and Verlander and any other Astros that are worthy of consideration come up, they deserve to be in too. Same as Tom Brady and Bill Belichick in the NFL HOF.

It's a museum. It can be dirty, or underhanded to get there in some aspects, but they belong. Same as OJ belongs and he's a serial killer.

Now......I didn't realize that about Clemens. He is a absolutely a POS for that. He's still in. ON THE FIELD, he was a HOF. Off the field, he's a POS. I remember Mindy, I had no idea she was connected to him.

 

[onewearz]

Does Barry really hit 70 plus homers without roids?

No ..

But neither does Mcguire. I don't think anyone can without some "help". Who knows what Ruth did then or what he'd be able to do in today's game. Barry also played the outfield, not 1b or DH. That should be taken into consideration also. No playing half an inning until your #'s called 4 times a night. He played the whole game, was a great outfielder as well, not just average.

But i think we'll see 60 at the very most again and even then people are gonna speculate that person, whoever does it , to death. 73 will never be touched without "help" and old baseball fans hate the man who holds the record because of his cockiness and not being so open with the media. That's all it comes down to ...

 

[darthska]

I remember an awful lot of folks clutching pearls over the Astros cheating, but want all the cheaters allowed into the HOF.......

2nd time today I've seen you conflate 2 things.

"They cheated! Eff 'em" can exist in the same space as "Put 'em in the Hall."

You can be proud as you can be of your amazing child while still recognizing their imperfections.

-foe

 

[RyGuy45]

Officially failed MLB tests but....another name we completely disregard now is def Manny Ramirez.... No one talks about him, like ever

 

[CP1708]

Officially failed MLB tests but....another name we completely disregard now is def Manny Ramirez.... No one talks about him, like ever

I just did

He's more well liked in the Ortiz mold I think.

 

[DeadsetAce]

2nd time today I've seen you conflate 2 things.

"They cheated! Eff 'em" can exist in the same space as "Put 'em in the Hall."

You can be proud as you can be of your amazing child while still recognizing their imperfections.

-foe

we just love making fun of the Astros and their fans

 

[CP1708]

2nd time today I've seen you conflate 2 things.

"They cheated! Eff 'em" can exist in the same space as "Put 'em in the Hall."

You can be proud as you can be of your amazing child while still recognizing their imperfections.

-foe

Naw man, I was getting dragged for "defending" Houston, and by defending, I mean I was sayin that every team in the league, every team in sports is cheating in some manner, or trying to cheat as best they can. Every single one.

And folks wasn't havin it.

NOW, some of them got no qualms about cheaters......

I find that amusing. Not conflating at all.

 

[DeadsetAce]

Officially failed MLB tests but....another name we completely disregard now is def Manny Ramirez.... No one talks about him, like ever

I just did

He's more well liked in the Ortiz mold I think.

interesting to bring up Manny. they were just talking about how he wasn't a great teammate and his own mates (Dustin Pedroia of all people ) said he doesn't belong in the HOF

but yeah, Manny is a no brainer

 

[yankeesking92]

It's still F the Stros till the day I die.

 

[g-time]

Who knows but he was a 400/400 player by 1999. He should be in.

He was the only 400HR, 400SB, .400 OBP.

 

[kingjay718]

Baseball don’t want no blow back from Clemens getting/going in.

If Ms McCready didn’t commit suicide years ago and they had at least bury the hatchet and he donate to a charity or something, then maybe.

I mean, his wife forgave him.