Abolish the Welfare System in America Vol. Mature Discussion

[Trent Reznor]

For every person you know that abuses the system there are 10 that don't tell anyone one they are on foodstamps and are extremely grateful for them and couldn't survive without them.

Stats on this. I simply don't believe it.

Its not easy to get food stamps in Philadelphia if you work on the books. Its actually better for you NOT to work so you can qualify. It penalizes the single mother of three working two jobs because she makes more than the "median."

 

[taj gibson]

I hope this wasn't directed at me. I've already said I gave an EXTREME example.

Again, my views are what I see in PHILADELPHIA. The bad out weigh the good in a LARGE margin.

Edited for emphasis.


making hasty generalizations are always unappreciated.

 

[Trent Reznor]

Edited for emphasis.


making hasty generalizations are always unappreciated.

its not generalizations when its true pal. Do you have any idea what goes on here? I don't think you do.

 

[taj gibson]

its not generalizations when its true pal. Do you have any idea what goes on here? I don't think you do.

what goes on in Philly = what goes on in EVERY urban city in the United States. I dont have to live in your city to know that you're generalizing.

 

[taj gibson]

I guess i'm too much of a egalitarian, I just feel that social programs still work and are a major difference between a first world nation and a developing country.

 

[Trent Reznor]

what goes on in Philly = what goes on in EVERY urban city in the United States. I dont have to live in your city to know that you're generalizing.

True, but EVERY city and state laws are DIFFERENT bro.

Whatever man. I got to get back to work, I'm not going in a back and forth all day. I've lived and worked in almost every part of this city. Its bad. Real bad.

Its extremely difficult to qualify for government assistance in the city of Philadelphia if you are WORKING. The income level is so low to qualify you almost have to make $5 dollars an hour to qualify.

When I got laid off, I applied for EVERYTHING. I couldn't find a job. Was applying everywhere. I didn't qualify for jack. Why? Because I made more on unemployment than the poverty level. After rent, bills, food I barely had anything at the end of the week, yet I didn't qualify for anything.

 

[Trent Reznor]

The laws are set up here to almost "encourage" you NOT to work so that you can continue in the system. It sickens me.

 

[taj gibson]

The laws are set up here to almost "encourage" you NOT to work so that you can continue in the system. It sickens me.

But dont you think that its extreme to say that the law encourages people not to work and that we should abolish welfare altogether? Just step out your Right Wing box for a second and think how bad it would be in the country if we didn't have social programs. Take a look at what goes on in developing countries across the world, the poor is forced to commit crimes because in most cases it's their only way to feed their families.

 

[Trent Reznor]

But dont you think that its extreme to say that the law encourages people not to work and that we should abolish welfare altogether? Just step out your Right Wing box for a second and think how bad it would be in the country if we didn't have social programs. Take a look at what goes on in developing countries across the world, the poor is forced to commit crimes because in most cases it's their only way to feed their families.

Now who's generalizing?

1.) I NEVER said abolish welfare. I actually know plenty of people on welfare that did the right thing over the years. Re read everything I posted in this thread. Go a page back and read my points.

2.) Right Wing? You know nothing about me AT ALL. In fact, i tend to lean a lot more left on most things. You're all high and mighty about not generalizing yet you were quick to throw me in a box and label me right away to prove your point.

3.) We're not a developing country. Your point is moot. We're an established country who will not perish IF social programs were taken away. It just wouldn't happen.

 

[taj gibson]

Now who's generalizing?

1.) I NEVER said abolish welfare. I actually know plenty of people on welfare that did the right thing over the years. Re read everything I posted in this thread. Go a page back and read my points.

2.) Right Wing? You know nothing about me AT ALL. In fact, i tend to lean a lot more left on most things. You're all high and mighty about not generalizing yet you were quick to throw me in a box and label me right away to prove your point.

3.) We're not a developing country. Your point is moot. We're an established country who will not perish IF social programs were taken away. It just wouldn't happen.

1. Mybad for some reason i thought you were the OP

2. Your posts come off pretty Right wingish. "The law encourages laziness" well excuse me David Siegel

3. Is that why we needed social programs to help us out of the great depression?

 

[solarius49]

So....why don't we just create a death penalty situation for assistance abuse or welfare fraud?

That'd be a good way to start killing people for being too poor and lazy.

Like seriously, if there was a way you could prove in a court of law that a person was actively being poor AND lazy and getting over on American tax dollars, would it be a good idea to end that person's life? Like, could that be a popular idea?

What do ya'll think?

Then all those Enron guys would get murked. Yall are describing people abusing welfare, and coming up on a few hundred dollars a year...but we still have American "business people" who have scammed the country, and their own employees out of millions of dollars.

I have had a job pretty much every day of my life since 2002, but you know what, despite busting my *** working 2 full time jobs and being a full time college student, at the end of the day my refrigerator would still be empty, and food stamps helped alot.

Regardless of whether you think the receipients should "work harder" or "make more money" (which is absurd", America needs fast food employees, and retail employees. If you want less people off of welfare, I recommend you appeal to the government to mandate a living wage.

I know sooooo many people who work everyday, and raise their children everyday, and do a great job of both, and still utilize the welfare system to keep their children fed and clothed.....but a few people in this thread think it appropriate to focus on the onesies and twosies who found a way to abuse the system.

 

[solarius49]

what goes on in Philly = what goes on in EVERY urban city in the United States. I dont have to live in your city to know that you're generalizing.

True, but EVERY city and state laws are DIFFERENT bro.

Whatever man. I got to get back to work, I'm not going in a back and forth all day. I've lived and worked in almost every part of this city. Its bad. Real bad.

Its extremely difficult to qualify for government assistance in the city of Philadelphia if you are WORKING. The income level is so low to qualify you almost have to make $5 dollars an hour to qualify.

When I got laid off, I applied for EVERYTHING. I couldn't find a job. Was applying everywhere. I didn't qualify for jack. Why? Because I made more on unemployment than the poverty level. After rent, bills, food I barely had anything at the end of the week, yet I didn't qualify for anything.

well since its a STATE law and not a city law...and I live in Pennsylvania, and I have received gov't assistance, I can definitely say that everything you said here is false. Sounds like you should have stopped receiving unemployment so you could get some welfare. Maybe PA should just discontinue unemployment benefits so people like you can stop leaching off the working man

Spoiler

my unemployment just hit my account and I'm loving it. But once they start calling it something else, and you cant get it then it becomes a problem

 

[-Red-]

For every person you know that abuses the system there are 10 that don't tell anyone one they are on foodstamps and are extremely grateful for them and couldn't survive without them.

This is what apparently some people in this thread just can't seem to get a handle on.

It's why the same kinds of stereotypes exist for people living in public housing. Only a relatively small percentage of people living in public housing are actively engaged in criminal activity that threatens public safety yet this relatively small group is by far the most visible segment of the public housing population. Thus, people develop and perpetuate stereotypes of project residents based on a small part of the public housing population.

The same happens with those who receive public assistance in general as evidenced in many of the views espoused in this thread, particularly those of stevielips. The people "abusing the system" are a relatively small minority of all people who receive public assistance. They just don't give a damn and want everyone in the world to know that they're "getting over." The vast majority of people receiving public assistance just go about their business quietly and you would never know they receive some type of assistance.

This dude is acting like he knows every single person who receives public assistance in Philadelphia...

 

[-Red-]

For every person you know that abuses the system there are 10 that don't tell anyone one they are on foodstamps and are extremely grateful for them and couldn't survive without them.

Stats on this. I simply don't believe it.

How about you provide some reliable statistics to support your argument?

"I simply don't believe it"

 

[solarius49]

In PA welfare is capped at $300 per child per month

 

[sundoobie]

The ones from these situations or that know actual real life people going through these situations rarely are so judgemental.

Yup. My family was on welfare back in the day. We depended on food stamps and that monthly welfare check just to have a roof over our heads. Who here remembers that govt brick cheese or that powdered milk? I remember when they turned the water off on us, pops and I went to my elementary school to use the water fountains to fill up our water bottles! We didn't stay on welfare long cause my parents were able to find full time jobs but man those were the days! If there was no welfare or social programs to help us during that time, I don't where I would be today considering a ton of dudes I grew up with ended up in jail or dead. Thank GOD I had great parents that disciplined the crap out of me and kept me away from the streets.

 

[STooK]

Welfare is one thing but the government should REALLY do something about medicaid. I see it everyday at work and it disgusts me how SOOOO many people have it and most of them abuse it. They always come to the pharmacy on their iphones and latest jordans and complain about a dollar co payment on their meds. Yet you have the middle class citizens who either have to pay hundreds a month and some just can't even afford health care because they make "too much" to have medicaid but not enough to afford private insurance. Of course there are really sick people that need it and that's who it should be given to in the first place. Medicaid should not be given to any smokers and should require random drug testing at least. It pisses me off how they all think it's their RIGHT to have Medicaid because they are SOOO deserving.

 

[a55a5in11]

Blaming the government and schools is completely false. It starts with the parents and ends with the parents. End of story. Kids drop out all the time in inner city's because the parents don't do their job. Kids think its ok to scam the government for free money because their parents didn't teach them responsibilities. There's a reason this goes multi generations deep.

The ignorance is amazing.

Not saying parents are free from blame, but many inner city schools aren't trying to really teach these students, but rather teach standardized tests so that these schools can continue to receive government funding. Read up on the No Child Left Behind Act and its "success."

Kids drop out because their parents are working two and three jobs to make ends meet, and are often home alone. Or their parents are addicted to drugs and too poor to support them (if your parents are rich addicts, everything is okay, but we don't judge these ones). Or they're drawn by the easy money of the drug trade (google COINTELPRO).

I don't know where this idea comes from that most of the people receiving government assistance are scamming the system. Most people really are struggling. The problem is, you have people in here making judgement based on what they hear from others or see on their news station of choice. The ones from these situations or that know actual real life people going through these situations rarely are so judgemental.

The fourth season of the Wire touches this subject very well, I suggest it to everyone in this thread.

There are no simple solutions to this problem because this is not a simple problem. It is complex and multifaceted.

uhm wut. how does not having a strong parental influence not effect how a child grows up? its been said in this thread before by people who had parents on this, that them having good parents who who cared defiantly made an impact to work hard and make a good career for themselves

 

[kix4kix]

All this complaining about welfare, the budget would balance if we restructured social security, and Medicaid, my broke *** should not be payingforbill gates to get a check every month.

 

[andycrazn]

Then all those Enron guys would get murked. Yall are describing people abusing welfare, and coming up on a few hundred dollars a year...but we still have American "business people" who have scammed the country, and their own employees out of millions of dollars.

I have had a job pretty much every day of my life since 2002, but you know what, despite busting my *** working 2 full time jobs and being a full time college student, at the end of the day my refrigerator would still be empty, and food stamps helped alot.

Regardless of whether you think the receipients should "work harder" or "make more money" (which is absurd", America needs fast food employees, and retail employees. If you want less people off of welfare, I recommend you appeal to the government to mandate a living wage.

I know sooooo many people who work everyday, and raise their children everyday, and do a great job of both, and still utilize the welfare system to keep their children fed and clothed.....but a few people in this thread think it appropriate to focus on the onesies and twosies who found a way to abuse the system.

so they didnt plan out their expenses having a child on the way so they need backup help? why cant they ask family members first for assistance?

 

[solarius49]

Then all those Enron guys would get murked. Yall are describing people abusing welfare, and coming up on a few hundred dollars a year...but we still have American "business people" who have scammed the country, and their own employees out of millions of dollars.

I have had a job pretty much every day of my life since 2002, but you know what, despite busting my *** working 2 full time jobs and being a full time college student, at the end of the day my refrigerator would still be empty, and food stamps helped alot.

Regardless of whether you think the receipients should "work harder" or "make more money" (which is absurd", America needs fast food employees, and retail employees. If you want less people off of welfare, I recommend you appeal to the government to mandate a living wage.

I know sooooo many people who work everyday, and raise their children everyday, and do a great job of both, and still utilize the welfare system to keep their children fed and clothed.....but a few people in this thread think it appropriate to focus on the onesies and twosies who found a way to abuse the system.

so they didnt plan out their expenses having a child on the way so they need backup help? why cant they ask family members first for assistance?

I dont see how getting pregnant has anything to do with abusing the system? Explain please? Everybody's family dont got it bro, but I can tell you havent ever been a part of that demographic. And I know people on welfare with ZERO kids...but please, help me understand

 

[dunksnjordans1992]

i feel you

 

[stay strong]

Abolish child support !!!

 

[itshlittt]

Abolish child support !!!

what the hell is wrong with you

 

[andycrazn]

I dont see how getting pregnant has anything to do with abusing the system? Explain please? Everybody's family dont got it bro, but I can tell you havent ever been a part of that demographic. And I know people on welfare with ZERO kids...but please, help me understand

i posted my upbringing a while back on how my mom supported me.

i came here from hong kong when i was 3. i saw my mom work 60 hour weeks trying to support me. (not sure if it was below the minimum wage at the time cause we just got here and she didnt know much about ny) my dad had a gambling addiction that really didnt help pay the bills. MY MOM NEVER TOOK GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE OF ANY KIND. the reason could be because didnt know english and of government assistance programs that couldve helped. but she still has more saved up than the average american and her salary never past 25k (nominal). im 22 and i have more saved up than her because i invested what i earned into the market (its insanely rigged now). most of my clothes on average is like 3-5 years old. its like the other thread say about financial literacy. its desperately needed in america.