African Descendants ✊🏿 Black People - Americas, Africa, Caribbean Culture Discussion

[deusavertat]

If Black Women benefitted so much from Modern Day Feminism in the United States, the numbers certainly don't show it.

Lets see

More female doctors
More females in the STEM fields
More female CEOs
More female lawyers
More females playing nonstereotypical roles in movies/shows
Gap in pay inequality continues to close as gradual as it may be
More funding for college sports
More females in politics
Trash misogynists getting triggered alone is evidence of progress.

How arent these benefits?

 

[deusavertat]

If it were up to Present aka Past, black women would still be playing roles like this

 

[DripNick]

From now on I'm addressing you as HVD

Ayo

 

[gry60]

How did we go from "Women led pre colonial African empires" to modern day "Female Presidents"?

This is what I originally said:

Are we supposed to ignore that women led pre-colonial African empires? Are we supposed to ignore the impact that African women have had in all facets of African history, past and present?

When it comes to the question of female leadership in ancient Africa, you've been answered already, but you choose not to acknowledge it. Look into the Tuareg, look into the ancient Kongo, look into Egyptian and Nubian dynasties, and you'll find female monarchs and leaders. Malawi has had a female president, as well as Sierra Leone. Winnie Mandela was instrumental in the fight against apartheid in South Africa, and so were many other women during colonization.

What I disagree with is " feminism would give them the option to live outside of the constraints".

Modern day feminism absolutely does not give black women "the option to live outside of the constraints placed on them by a culture like mine" because I'm American and a Black man.

Are you trying to say that the black church and the black community in the past didn't look down on black women who chose to exit bad, abusive relationships and elevated the ones who sucked up the disrespect from their unfaithful men? Before the feminist movement, was there a world in which Black wives didn't have to have the approval of their Black husbands in order to open a bank account? These are some of the constraints that were put on American women by American society. Black men went along with the constraints they could enforce (preaching against divorce and taking advantage of their partner's trust without repercussions), and the ones they couldn't (like banking requirements or a husband's opinion on on their wife's medical matters).

I couldn't (and have no business) assuming anything about my own ancestors and what they would do if thrust 400 years into the future...let alone yours.

Then, why did you ask?

Sounds like you believe your ancestors would align themselves with modern day feminism. I hope mine wouldn't.

Sounds like you believe your ancestors would align themselves with white women's narratives vs facts. I hope mine wouldn't.

Sounds like you're putting words in my mouth and speculating, which you just said you wouldn't do.

Sounds like you believe your ancestors would be Ok with this movie.

My ancestors are not Oyo or Dahomey, so I don't think they'd care...

Now, from what I read about the historical inaccuracies, it seems that the movie was made with representatives of the Dahomey kingdom as consultants, which would explain why there appears to be major downplaying of their role in slavery: the current leaders of former African states that participated in the trade are not very willing to discuss those things, and they are quick to downplay the role of their ancestors and justify their actions (that's a whole other discussion that requires an explanation of the sociopolitical structure of African countries, and I'm not doing this today).

It's just funny that we spent two pages arguing about a trailer. I'll watch the movie; I think its value lies in reinforcing the reality that Africa is more than a continent full of black people who are all the same, and hopefully, more people can approach discussions about its history, cultures, politics with the same complexity and nuance that is afforded to Asian and European societies.

 

[mr s j king]

So all the death and destruction our ancestors had to endure isn't what helped black women overcome economic oppression in this country.....

It was the feminist movement????

Go home and be a family man.

What does this even mean

 

[deusavertat]

So all the death and destruction our ancestors had to endure isn't what helped black women overcome economic oppression in this country.....

It was the feminist movement????

What does this even mean

Lol what helped black women is their own resilience.

As well as their own insistence on battling sexism and misogyny aka "FEMINISM".

There are allies like myself who have helped along the way because trash male ignorance is a powerful hindrance to progress, as we can see in here.

 

[aquatic barefoot]

Another thread successfully detailed and repurposed; same culprits are at fault…

 

[layziegunts]

Aint nothing worst than coming into a male dominated space and all I hear is woman bashing. We gotta chill with that man

 

[layziegunts]

a lot of brothers need to go to therapy about the disdain they have for their mothers (and the same thing regarding women who hate their dads) its such a vicious cycle

 

[Present]

This is what I originally said:

When it comes to the question of female leadership in ancient Africa, you've been answered already, but you choose not to acknowledge it. Look into the Tuareg, look into the ancient Kongo, look into Egyptian and Nubian dynasties, and you'll find female monarchs and leaders. Malawi has had a female president, as well as Sierra Leone. Winnie Mandela was instrumental in the fight against apartheid in South Africa, and so were many other women during colonization.


Are you trying to say that the black church and the black community in the past didn't look down on black women who chose to exit bad, abusive relationships and elevated the ones who sucked up the disrespect from their unfaithful men? Before the feminist movement, was there a world in which Black wives didn't have to have the approval of their Black husbands in order to open a bank account? These are some of the constraints that were put on American women by American society. Black men went along with the constraints they could enforce (preaching against divorce and taking advantage of their partner's trust without repercussions), and the ones they couldn't (like banking requirements or a husband's opinion on on their wife's medical matters).


Then, why did you ask?


Sounds like you're putting words in my mouth and speculating, which you just said you wouldn't do.

My ancestors are not Oyo or Dahomey, so I don't think they'd care...

Now, from what I read about the historical inaccuracies, it seems that the movie was made with representatives of the Dahomey kingdom as consultants, which would explain why there appears to be major downplaying of their role in slavery: the current leaders of former African states that participated in the trade are not very willing to discuss those things, and they are quick to downplay the role of their ancestors and justify their actions (that's a whole other discussion that requires an explanation of the sociopolitical structure of African countries, and I'm not doing this today).

It's just funny that we spent two pages arguing about a trailer. I'll watch the movie; I think its value lies in reinforcing the reality that Africa is more than a continent full of black people who are all the same, and hopefully, more people can approach discussions about its history, cultures, politics with the same complexity and nuance that is afforded to Asian and European societies.

Now Black Men, Black Churches, and Black Communities were "Da Patriarchy" and white women came along with Feminism to save Black women?

Yeah - we aint having the same conversation...at all and I aint about to argue with a modern day black male feminist.

Hope you enjoy the movie Fam.

Aint nothing worst than coming into a male dominated space and all I hear is woman bashing. We gotta chill with that man

Bruh! -

"male dominated space"

"woman bashing"

"disdain for mothers"

do you have this stuff on index cards?

Gotta chill with the projection fam...nobody else is responsible for "all you hear" / your interpretations.

Those ears belong to you.

Ex: I could call you a "white knight" or a "solution looking for a problem" but I don't know you IRL man!

If y'all want to see the movie then see the movie!

What the rest of us gotta do with that?

 

[deusavertat]

Now Black Men, Black Churches, and Black Communities were "Da Patriarchy" and white women came along with Feminism to save Black women?

Yeah - we aint having the same conversation...at all and I aint about to argue with a modern day black male feminist.

Hope you enjoy the movie Fam.



Bruh! -

"male dominated space"

"woman bashing"

"disdain for mothers"

do you have this stuff on index cards?

Gotta chill with the projection fam...nobody else is responsible for "all you hear" / your interpretations.

Those ears belong to you.

Ex: I could call you a "white knight" or a "solution looking for a problem" but I don't know you IRL man!

If y'all want to see the movie then see the movie!

What the rest of us gotta do with that?

Lol white women do not have a monopoly on feminism.


Black women are smart enough to determine they want equal opportunities and freedom from misogynistic abuse all on their own.

 

[gry60]

Now Black Men, Black Churches, and Black Communities were "Da Patriarchy" and white women came along with Feminism to save Black women?

Yeah - we aint having the same conversation...at all and I aint about to argue with a modern day black male feminist.

Hope you enjoy the movie Fam.

No, we're not.

My overarching point is that social conditions detrimental to a woman's self-determination can lead her to feminism, and those conditions can exist in any space, with no influence from outside entities. That's why all my examples were taken from black spaces.

Unfortunately, you're way too invested in the notion that white women invented feminism and exported it the world over, and I don't think you want to have a conversation as much as you want your ideas to be validated. Reality just disagrees...

 

[Present]

No, we're not.

My overarching point is that social conditions detrimental to a woman's self-determination can lead her to feminism, and those conditions can exist in any space, with no influence from outside entities. That's why all my examples were taken from black spaces.

Unfortunately, you're way too invested in the notion that white women invented feminism and exported it the world over, and I don't think you want to have a conversation as much as you want your ideas to be validated. Reality just disagrees...

The only "notion" I'm invested in is you having the right to your opinions and me having the right to mine.

Validation?

My emotions are not tied to this conversation in any way shape or form my G.

We wont see eye to eye on this issue and personally I'm Ok with that.

Enjoy the movie Fam.

 

[mr s j king]

a lot of brothers need to go to therapy about the disdain they have for their mothers (and the same thing regarding women who hate their dads) its such a vicious cycle

You left out something very important and I can only presume its because of your upbringing (meaning it wasn't something you had to deal with in your youth)

Because of the 400+ year old plan in this country to destroy the black family structure, a lot of black men have major daddy issues

So their defense of black women is because of their love for their mother and their lack of love for their father

Lol what helped black women is their own resilience.

As well as their own insistence on battling sexism and misogyny aka "FEMINISM".

There are allies like myself who have helped along the way because trash male ignorance is a powerful hindrance to progress, as we can see in here.

HVD you right past my question about your "Go home and be a family man" comment?

Are you not an ally to the black father that is married to his children's mother, and they all reside under the same roof?

Or am I what you and your high value male club members consider a sucker or a simp?

 

[deusavertat]

You left out something very important and I can only presume its because of your upbringing (meaning it wasn't something you had to deal with in your youth)

Because of the 400+ year old plan in this country to destroy the black family structure, a lot of black men have major daddy issues

So their defense of black women is because of their love for their mother and their lack of love for their father


HVD you right past my question about your "Go home and be a family man" comment?

Are you not an ally to the black father that is married to his children's mother, and they all reside under the same roof?

Or am I what you and your high value male club members consider a sucker or a simp?

Lol youre all over the place. You talked about what "helped black women" and I said they helped themselves and allies like myself provided some support.


If you want a topic about black father allies, make one

#deflection.

#WhAT aBoUt Me

 

[tokes99]

When it comes to the question of female leadership in ancient Africa, you've been answered already, but you choose not to acknowledge it. Look into the Tuareg, look into the ancient Kongo, look into Egyptian and Nubian dynasties, and you'll find female monarchs and leaders. Malawi has had a female president, as well as Sierra Leone. Winnie Mandela was instrumental in the fight against apartheid in South Africa, and so were many other women during colonization.

while i understand the point, yes there have been points at which an individual woman lead dynasties, kingdoms, movements, etc. i think the question is the extent to which it was the norm, even in their own time? was it ubiquitous through their own cultures & societies??

a movie with the title of ‘woman king’ in these times, just seems needlessly oxymoronic…

 

[mr s j king]

Lol youre all over the place. You talked about what "helped black women" and I said they helped themselves and allies like myself provided some support.


If you want a topic about black father allies, make one

#deflection.

#WhAT aBoUt Me

Quote where I said black women didn't help themselves

You made the "go be a family man" remark but claiming I'm using it looking for attention

If anyone is looking for attention and patting themselves on the back its you, because you've brought up your legacy as the premier ally to the black feminist movement multiple times

You mind sharing what you have done and/or still doing to help progress the black feminist movement

 

[layziegunts]

mr s j king and P Present - real simple yes or no question for both of yall please.

Do yall love black women?

 

[deusavertat]

Quote where I said black women didn't help themselves

You made the "go be a family man" remark but claiming I'm using it looking for attention

If anyone is looking for attention and patting themselves on the back its you, because you've brought up your legacy as the premier ally to the black feminist movement multiple times

You mind sharing what you have done and/or still doing to help progress the black feminist movement

The go be a family man was a joke reference to street fighter. I guess it triggered you. My bad, you werent supposed to dig deep into that.

 

[mr s j king]

mr s j king and P Present - real simple yes or no question for both of yall please.

Do yall love black women?

I already posted I'm married to a black woman so I'll let you figure that out

 

[deusavertat]

mr s j king and P Present - real simple yes or no question for both of yall please.

Do yall love black women?

This is a really bad question for those two. You can love something and find it inferior. Many abused are "loved" by their abusers.



As long as they know their place.

 

[mr s j king]

The go be a family man was a joke reference to street fighter. I guess it triggered you. My bad, you werent supposed to dig deep into that.

You gotta reference black movies or 80s sci-fi and horror movies for me to catch it

 

[mr s j king]

This is a really bad question for those two. You can love something and find it inferior. Many abused are "loved" by their abusers.



As long as they know their place.

Still waiting on you to quote where I said black women didn't help themselves

 

[deusavertat]

You gotta reference black movies or 80s sci-fi and horror movies for me to catch it

We all stray from the path of the lord sometimes child. But with penance, you will find your way again.

 

[gry60]

while i understand the point, yes there have been points at which an individual woman lead dynasties, kingdoms, movements, etc. i think the question is the extent to which it was the norm, even in their own time? was it ubiquitous through their own cultures & societies??

a movie with the title of ‘woman king’ in these times, just seems needlessly oxymoronic…

Just to give you an idea of the scope you're asking me to cover, a country like mine (about the size of California) has 25 million people who collectively speak more than 200 languages and dialects; the political structures run the gamut from absolute monarchies to Athens-style democracies; and the role and status of women are not uniform across cultures and ethnic groups. Granted, my country is one of the most diverse in Africa, but there are 52 countries on the continent, and each one of them has at least two official languages and three or four specifically local languages (and the ethnic societies that go with them). In short, you need to direct your question to an distinguished anthropologist, and that's not me.

But I'll argue that the extent is not important. What matters is that the title of the movie (and its story) should be seen within the context of this social and political diversity. And if you survey discussions that Africans themselves are having about this movie, much of the criticism centers around the accuracy of the costumes, the architecture, the weaponry, and the motivations of the Agoodjie. The fact that you don't find many discussions by Africans on the question of female leadership should tell how inconsequential it is to us because some of us are used to female leaders.