Andrew Tate. DONE.

[Wargames]

I think it is pretty reasonable to blame Tate's influence on certain groups

Especially primary school students. They haven't been in the dating market long, if at all, and they haven't hit puberty yet.

If boys that young have these hyper-misogynistic views on girls, they probably got it from **** online. And students are dropping his name.

And if they are disrupting classes, harassing other students, and assaulting them, then that is a major problem for a school.

that makes sense. A lot of this manosphere stuff only makes sense if you don’t actually spend any time around women socially and are naive enough to believe BS. It’s just disappointing to hear that teens are resenting women. That’s the type of ideology that’ll stunt their relationships going forward.

 

[Wargames]

This man later became a Andrew Tate follower later that night.

This stuff hurts but it’s also a great way to learn to not get yourself in the friendzone through lack of clear communication. No way should something being a date not be clearly understood by both parties if it’s a date.

 

[tokes99]

When a few guys get all the girls and most guys just constantly get rejected on stuff like dating apps it’s pretty easy to understand why. It’s the one area of life where working “hard” doesn’t actually pan out that well in results. If you’re ugly and short there’s very little that can be done. That inherent “unfairness” makes emotionally unstable young men look to something they can feel can even the scales a bit. Society has made it far too easy for girls to all just hook up with the same guy so now there’s no real reason for them to even get to know most other guys as casual conversations rarely happen anymore.

As people get older the usually grow out of this but for young men who are still emotionally volatile and surrounded by group think it’d be almost shocking if they didn’t do this - it’d be against human nature.

i think it’s more to do with how both explicitly & implicitly most things about being a male is looked down upon, dating may be a part of the math for older teens but they are talking about pre-teens…

I think it is pretty reasonable to blame Tate's influence on certain groups

Especially primary school students. They haven't been in the dating market long, if at all, and they haven't hit puberty yet.

If boys that young have these hyper-misogynistic views on girls, they probably got it from **** online. And students are dropping his name.

And if they are disrupting classes, harassing other students, and assaulting them, then that is a major problem for a school.

definitely comes from online content, i think taken out of context most anyone can be clipped into looking crazy tho. having listened to both the 4 hour interview where he further explains & the original panel discussion in which some of the aforementioned statements that are attributed to tate being ‘misogynist’ are actually fairly sensible altho said in the most provocative manner

What's not attractive about exercising one's power over others?

The reason Tate is the figurehead of this discussion is because he promotes the idea that men having power over women is legitimate. I think it's fair to name him in classroom discussions that address this mindset and the systems built around it.

granted, being that it actually does involve tate—-the kids are quoting him, it would be valid to have what he says as the topic of a discourse around misogyny, but saying he is the root cause…that’s a lot to put on a singular entity

that makes sense. A lot of this manosphere stuff only makes sense if you don’t actually spend any time around women socially and are naive enough to believe BS. It’s just disappointing to hear that teens are resenting women. That’s the type of ideology that’ll stunt their relationships going forward.

there are definitely a lot misguided, reactionary stuff from that corner of the internet but not all of it is terrible advice. i’d argue much of the language young folks hear in respect to the genders, i think, makes resenting the opposite genders quite easy, we only talk about the boys/men because they are way more apt to be exhibitionists/lash out

 

[RustyShackleford]

definitely comes from online content, i think taken out of context most anyone can be clipped into looking crazy tho. having listened to both the 4 hour interview where he further explains & the original panel discussion in which some of the aforementioned statements that are attributed to tate being ‘misogynist’ are actually fairly sensible altho said in the most provocative manner

Andrew Tate is a misogynist though

And how he presents his statements are meant to hook young men and boys. I think it is completely fair to take issue with that too.

In regards to people having to deal with the fallout of his ****ery among their students, the fact he sanitizes for some audiences in a long-form format is meaningless. 10-year-olds probably aren't watching 4-hour convos

 

[tokes99]

Andrew Tate is a misogynist though

And how he presents his statements are meant to hook young men and boys. I think it is completely fair to take issue with that too.

In regards to people having to deal with the fallout of his ****ery among their students, the fact he sanitizes for some audiences in a long-form format is meaningless. 10-year-olds probably aren't watching 4-hour convos

what’s is the definition/your definition of misogynist?

i think it is fair to critique his presentation, and i think characterizing him as an opportunist seeking to capitalize off of a wayward generation of men is also fair, i just think the misogynist labeling is one that ignores some general aspects of dynamics that both make men attractive to women/women find attractive in men as well as some generalities about life regardless of gender, i get that most people won’t be interested enough in seeking out longer form content, but still it seems folks that should know better are more invested in bad faith interpretations

 

[RustyShackleford]

what’s is the definition/your definition of misogynist?

i think it is fair to critique his presentation, and i think characterizing him as an opportunist seeking to capitalize off of a wayward generation of men is also fair, i just think the misogynist labeling is one that ignores some general aspects of dynamics that both make men attractive to women/women find attractive in men as well as some generalities about life regardless of gender, i get that most people won’t be interested enough in seeking out longer form content, but still it seems folks that should know better are more invested in bad faith interpretations

Someone that dislikes women and is biased against them

I feel Tate fits that description

 

[finessence]

that makes sense. A lot of this manosphere stuff only makes sense if you don’t actually spend any time around women socially and are naive enough to believe BS. It’s just disappointing to hear that teens are resenting women. That’s the type of ideology that’ll stunt their relationships going forward.

Well said. Some people really don’t know how to socialize at all. Forget the aspect of courting. Some people really need to practice interpersonal skills first. As you said, any man that needs this manosphere type stuff is already behind the 8 ball. No matter how many interviews you watch… you still have to go outside and apply yourself

 

[tokes99]

i think the former is an appropriate definition for misogyny, the later is harder because bias in what way? men & women are different, as such we almost naturally behave/treat each other differently depending on the circumstance(s) & who we are among.

we are socialized to treat women with bias, the ones that are advantageous to women’s wants are cool tho any that disadvantage women’s prerogative or preferential to men’s desires are shamed. i don’t really see how anything tate says alludes to him disliking or having contempt for women, as for bias i guess it depends on what you mean there?

 

[fluid hips]

This man later became a Andrew Tate follower later that night.

His first mistake was telling ole girl he was hype for the dinner date.

Basically letting her know he doesn't get girls. You gotta treat things like it's regular degular, nothing special.

And cats gotta stop using haha and lol at the end of texts thinking they playing it safe. F that goofy **** and stop tryna be a court jester with these women.

 

[Air Champa]

Hopefully old girl took some bear mace with her if they went out.

Dude should have been cool and acted like it was no problem.

 

[jape]

if a man wants to be happy about a dinner date, then let him be happy about a dinner date. if he is looking for something real, then being genuine up front eliminates the foolishness right away.

it worked imo and saved him a waste of time.
now he knows where she stands and can move on. his only mistake was trying to play it off in the end. don’t be afraid of being who you are to put on a front.

 

[Wargames]

if a man wants to be happy about a dinner date, then let him be happy about a dinner date. if he is looking for something real, then being genuine up front eliminates the foolishness right away.

it worked imo and saved him a waste of time.
now he knows where she stands and can move on. his only mistake was trying to play it off in the end. don’t be afraid of being who you are to put on a front.

The secret was to say “hey can I take you out on a date” when he invited her out to begin with. This is a bad situation to be in but it sounds like he wasn’t direct enough with his intentions.

Also I hate the idea of men complaining about the friendzone because it’s the friendzone is creepy to me to. The idea that someone I think of as a friend isn’t really my friend and they act like one just to date me is creepy in a vacuum. Then if I don’t get into a relationship with them they ghost me, or secretly still want me. It’s just not fair to anyone to put that much nonsense into any potential relationship

Now keep in mind this doesn’t include women who for vanity or selfish reasons lead a man on into thinking they could have something romantic when they have no intention too. However, you can identify those type of women easier if you regularly interact with women.

That’s why I always recommend to the awkward guys I know that they should try to make female friends to be able to separate the difference between being attracted to someone who isn’t attracted to you, mutual attraction, and just being friends with someone because of shared interest or because they have a congenial personality.

If there is actual mutual attraction between you and a female friend you’ll understand the signs way better if you had other female friends to judge their actions by who either you were attracted to and they don’t reciprocate that attraction or who neither of you were attracted to the other. Most of it being how often they seek you out to hangout and then how they act around you when you are together.

The biggest issue any man will ever have with women in general is objectifying them instead of bothering to figure out there intentions and your own through consistent interaction with women.

 

[smedroc]

i don’t really see how anything tate says alludes to him disliking or having contempt for women

You must be cherry picking cause there's hella soundbites of him talking crazy about women

 

[tokes99]

if a man wants to be happy about a dinner date, then let him be happy about a dinner date. if he is looking for something real, then being genuine up front eliminates the foolishness right away.

it worked imo and saved him a waste of time.
now he knows where she stands and can move on. his only mistake was trying to play it off in the end. don’t be afraid of being who you are to put on a front.

exactly this, we don’t know what the communication was outside this brief excerpt of the convo…it could be a safe assumption that he was ambiguous but then her response of ‘just texted my friend’ is also kinda telling… if he went in with the intentions of it being a date, he should have restated his intentions to make it crystal clear not acquiesce & linger in the friend zone

The secret was to say “hey can I take you out on a date” when he invited her out to begin with. This is a bad situation to be in but it sounds like he wasn’t direct enough with his intentions.

Also I hate the idea of men complaining about the friendzone because it’s the friendzone is creepy to me to. The idea that someone I think of as a friend isn’t really my friend and they act like one just to date me is creepy in a vacuum. Then if I don’t get into a relationship with them they ghost me, or secretly still want me. It’s just not fair to anyone to put that much nonsense into any potential relationship

Now keep in mind this doesn’t include women who for vanity or selfish reasons lead a man on into thinking they could have something romantic when they have no intention too. However, you can identify those type of women easier if you regularly interact with women.

That’s why I always recommend to the awkward guys I know that they should try to make female friends to be able to separate the difference between being attracted to someone who isn’t attracted to you, mutual attraction, and just being friends with someone because of shared interest or because they have a congenial personality.

If there is actual mutual attraction between you and a female friend you’ll understand the signs way better if you had other female friends to judge their actions by who either you were attracted to and they don’t reciprocate that attraction or who neither of you were attracted to the other. Most of it being how often they seek you out to hangout and then how they act around you when you are together.

The biggest issue any man will ever have with women in general is objectifying them instead of bothering to figure out there intentions and your own through consistent interaction with women.

disagree with almost all of this…

we don’t know how he initiated but he did at make it known in the text; his response to her reframe is likely not want he wanted, now maybe he can recover and overcome the objection be it at this meeting or over time, it happens, a lot of guy are willing to linger in that limbo and most of us know people for whom that is their relationship story…but it is kinda weird

as for recommending friendship as a precursor to non-platonic relationships to ‘awkward people’ that sounds like a recipe for disaster, because attraction changes the dynamics, not saying that couldn’t work but it seems like a suboptimal workaround, men would be better off making their attraction clear and learn to deal with & recognize the various forms of rejection women will offer as quickly as possible, for women they would be best to put themselves in position to be approached/available & hone their radar for those men that are actually serious/want what they want.

it is a waste of time to be developing/seeking platonic relationships if the real goal is not that

You must be cherry picking cause there's hella soundbites of him talking crazy about women

fasho dude has sound bites that are wild, but do you have some specific examples in mind that point to him not appreciating/disliking women generally? to me, talking crazy about (types of) women ≠ not liking women or being contemptuous of women, necessarily…to some extent as a wealthy person or even a person with clout/status, there is some maybe some judgement that could be seen as contempt, man or woman; as not to be used unfairly but the things each gender will bias will probably be very different

 

[Wargames]

disagree with almost all of this…

we don’t know how he initiated but he did at make it known in the text; his response to her reframe is likely not want he wanted, now maybe he can recover and overcome the objection be it at this meeting or over time, it happens, a lot of guy are willing to linger in that limbo and most of us know people for whom that is their relationship story…but it is kinda weird

as for recommending friendship as a precursor to non-platonic relationships to ‘awkward people’ that sounds like a recipe for disaster, because attraction changes the dynamics, not saying that couldn’t work but it seems like a suboptimal workaround, men would be better off making their attraction clear and learn to deal with & recognize the various forms of rejection women will offer as quickly as possible, for women they would be best to put themselves in position to be approached/available & hone their radar for those men that are actually serious/want what they want.

it is a waste of time to be developing/seeking platonic relationships if the real goal is not that

1. I have asked out more than my share of women and if you say “Hype for our Dinner date” and she hits you with that response about “I’m calling my friend to come bring a friend too” you didn’t initially ask her out for a date.

2. Making platonic relationships is the goal though. That’s the thing you got to realize finding female friends is a key part to finding a girlfriend. Even if you get her on a date, you should know how to show her a good time, be fun to be around, talk to her like a human being. Seduction is a everything in between that you do as you escalate a relationship.

I don’t know how to express this in a way you would get when your not even admitting Tate hates women.

 

[tokes99]

1. I have asked out more than my share of women and if you say “Hype for our Dinner date” and she hits you with that response about “I’m calling my friend to come bring a friend too” you didn’t initially ask her out for a date.

2. Making platonic relationships is the goal though. That’s the thing you got to realize finding female friends is a key part to finding a girlfriend. Even if you get her on a date, you should know how to show her a good time, be fun to be around, talk to her like a human being. Seduction is a everything in between that you do as you escalate a relationship.

I don’t know how to express this in a way you would get when your not even admitting Tate hates women.

1. it is a safe assumption that he was sufficiently ambiguous/vague about them meeting for dinner, but it would be an assumption…she very well could have second guessed for whatever reason and seemingly on the fly decided to bring a friend, then telling him he should also get a friend (which points to her actually knowing that wasn’t already the understanding) to tag along, as a way to create a more relaxed situation, out of maybe anxiety/nervousness/some other concern

2. i’m not saying one can’t go the platonic route, but that is both counter productive & inefficient, time is zero sum, any time spent pursuing explicitly non-sexual friendships with the opposite sex is time that could be spent obtaining the romantic relationship that is the ultimate goal, no? platonic relationships are not 1:1 akin to romantic relationships, so i don’t really see how that is an avenue to success with women, especially if they are actually awkward? wouldn’t it be better to just talk to women with whom they are open to your attraction & build up that skill, it may not lead anywhere but at least it’s on the proverbial table

i think tate is fairly sexist in his worldview, but to say he hates women…i just don’t see that; i’m open to that interpretation if shown but it doesn’t jive with what i’ve seen from various interviews of him

 

[deusavertat]

You must be cherry picking cause there's hella soundbites of him talking crazy about women

Including some rapey stuff.

 

[gry60]

i think tate is fairly sexist in his worldview, but to say he hates women…i just don’t see that; i’m open to that interpretation if shown but it doesn’t jive with what i’ve seen from various interviews of him

The guy said he moved to Romania to escape punishment for abusing women.

What he said before and after doesn't matter as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Present]

The breakdown of the nuclear family, changing values and morals, "us vs them" cultural and social conditioning, narcissism and selfishness, the constant need to feel good, be "right", and look down on others who disagree, misinformation, consumerism, replacing moral correctness for political correctness, etc over decades and decades.

Tate isn't a cause, he is a symptom.

For every misogynist there are misandrists.

There has always been Andrew Tate.

There has always been Jada Smith.

IMHO they are at best shock jocks who capitalize on their ability to generate an audience in fields where attention is currency.

Nothing new.

There is no boogie man. We are the only monsters here.

Compared to what we saw on TV in the 90s, Tate is a Care Bear.

Spoiler

 

[Wargames]

1. it is a safe assumption that he was sufficiently ambiguous/vague about them meeting for dinner, but it would be an assumption…she very well could have second guessed for whatever reason and seemingly on the fly decided to bring a friend, then telling him he should also get a friend (which points to her actually knowing that wasn’t already the understanding) to tag along, as a way to create a more relaxed situation, out of maybe anxiety/nervousness/some other concern

2. i’m not saying one can’t go the platonic route, but that is both counter productive & inefficient, time is zero sum, any time spent pursuing explicitly non-sexual friendships with the opposite sex is time that could be spent obtaining the romantic relationship that is the ultimate goal, no? platonic relationships are not 1:1 akin to romantic relationships, so i don’t really see how that is an avenue to success with women, especially if they are actually awkward? wouldn’t it be better to just talk to women with whom they are open to your attraction & build up that skill, it may not lead anywhere but at least it’s on the proverbial table

i think tate is fairly sexist in his worldview, but to say he hates women…i just don’t see that; i’m open to that interpretation if shown but it doesn’t jive with what i’ve seen from various interviews of him

This reminds me of debate club…. But **** it let’s go down the rabbit hole

1. That doesn’t make sense. If she second guessed the date she could just not go on it. Also her first response to him saying dinner date is literally “Dinner Date?” that further supports my point that he didn’t ask her out on a date and flipped it on her later via text.

Your theory requires a lot more leaps of logic and assumptions of subtext because the actual text questions them meeting being a date and we see her in real time adjusts to further emphasizes that it is not a date once it was brought to her attention he thought it was a date. She asks him to mimic her behavior to show agreement that it is not a date.

2. The ultimate goal should be to be good enough with women that you can maintain a romantic relationship or a friendship. Some men are naturally attractive to women and still can’t maintain a relationship with them to save their life. Approaching women endlessly is a bad habit because trying to PUA your way into a relationship (aka the numbers game) is what usually leads to men’s resentment towards women.

Before the Manosphere made it fashionable to resent them, online men groups advocated endless approaches as the secret to get women until they realized how empty that was too. Now those were the successful guys, for the awkward guys Internalizing a endless approach mentality ignores how the sense of failure a man get from approaching lots of women and failing skewers a man’s view of women from objectification (bad) to them being their opponents (worse). You could say that they will build a tougher skin, but once again a tougher skin for what? To resent women more? Constantly hitting on women with no game plan outside of charming them (when these are awkward men to begin with) is already a recipe for failure, now add resentment due to consistent negative reinforcement to it and you end up with “Men going their own way”.

Meanwhile having platonic relationships with women might be frustrating but there is no better way to learn how to be someone that women enjoy being around, how to talk to them in lower pressure non-sexual way, and how to express what you really want in a non-offensive way. Learning that your attraction to a woman doesn’t have to be reciprocated for them to be a valuable part of your life also avoid the example above. If a man can recognize platonic interest they can then separate platonic and romantic interest. He’ll know how to avoid asking a friend out or disregarding actual signs of romantic interest. Interacting with women in a non-sexual way can help a man understand that you can do things that make them attractive to women in general and not to waste their time pursuing women not into them. Asking women out without any idea on how to treat them once you take them out is a the ultimate waste of time. To summarize recognizing women as people makes it easier for you to like them and them to like you.

 

[Wargames]

The breakdown of the nuclear family, changing values and morals, "us vs them" cultural and social conditioning, narcissism and selfishness, the constant need to feel good, be "right", and look down on others who disagree, misinformation, consumerism, replacing moral correctness for political correctness, etc over decades and decades.

Tate isn't a cause, he is a symptom.

For every misogynist there are misandrists.

There has always been Andrew Tate.

There has always been Jada Smith.

Nothing new.

There is no boogie man. We are the only monsters here.

Compared to what we saw on TV in the 90s, Tate is a Care Bear.

Tate got arrested for running a sex slave ring in Romania. Jada Smith is a horrible wife. I don’t think the two equate.

Also Idk what you were watching on TV in the 90’s but Tate would have at best been a villain of the week on a tv show or a soap opera villain. He would not be advocating his beliefs in informercials in an attempt to Ponzi scheme money to maintain his exorbitant lifestyle. He’s selling the myth of being an “alpha male” to kids when the reality is he’s just an abusive male. Manipulating others for his vanity and money.

 

[finessence]

The breakdown of the nuclear family, changing values and morals, "us vs them" cultural and social conditioning, narcissism and selfishness, the constant need to feel good, be "right", and look down on others who disagree, misinformation, consumerism, replacing moral correctness for political correctness, etc over decades and decades.

Tate isn't a cause, he is a symptom.

For every misogynist there are misandrists.

There has always been Andrew Tate.

There has always been Jada Smith.

IMHO they are at best shock jocks who capitalize on their ability to generate an audience in fields where attention is currency.

Nothing new.

There is no boogie man. We are the only monsters here.

Compared to what we saw on TV in the 90s, Tate is a Care Bear.

Spoiler

Well said

 

[Wargames]

When did Howard Stern have a sex slave in Romania? Hell when did stern tell his audience women ain’t **** but if you treat them like **** they will respect you?

Andrew Tate is not a shock Jock, because shock jocks basically ran a circus, they were not giving people life advice.

All these excuses for the worlds most abusive boyfriend.

 

[Present]

Tate got arrested for running a sex slave ring in Romania. Jada Smith is a horrible wife. I don’t think the two equate.

Also Idk what you were watching on TV in the 90’s but Tate would have at best been a villain of the week on a tv show or a soap opera villain. He would not be advocating his beliefs in informercials in an attempt to Ponzi scheme money to maintain his exorbitant lifestyle. He’s selling the myth of being an “alpha male” to kids when the reality is he’s just an abusive male. Manipulating others for his vanity and money.

43-year-old married Smith had sex with her son's 22-year-old mentally unstable friend and went on to monetize the act for the world to see (with impunity).

Some may say "horrible wife" doesn't quite sum her up yet the word misandrist somehow doesn't appear in such cases...but I digress.

As far as the "sex slave ring" accusation, Tate was in fact arrested. I'll wait for the facts to come out in the trial.

There are more women/girls falling victim to sex trafficking globally every year so let us not pretend we are all of a sudden cracking down on the issue a la Tate.

IMHO neither are the cause of what's going on in our society.

Some folks just need a boogie man/woman to point to.

Like pointing at a running faucet on the Titanic.

 

[onthenephs]

I can't lie my older bro hit me with some wisdom at 16 that changed my teen years.

"Women are like gum, they taste good in your mouth and when you spit them out they stick to your shoe"

It was the most eye opening words taught to me at that age, especially having gone through some teen break up.

Was it misogynist? i don't know but i know for sure girls were getting all types of bs advice at that age from their peers as well. I also know it made me a bit stronger in terms of not being taken advantage of.