Andrew Tate. DONE.

[tr1ll]

Let the internet tell it all men need to be 6 feet tall, with 6 packs, and make over 6 figures while secretly running a credit card scam operation from our penthouses atop Stark Tower in order to get women.

The internet is a alternate universe from the walking world. I wont even go as far to say the women who say this are usually with regular dudes. If one were to simply ask them, candidly, what they want in a man, they’ll hit you with the “Its more about how he treats me..”

60% of everything on the internet is cap.

 

[Brownstone]

my thing with the rise of tate et al, along with general fall of the concept, general opinion, & understanding of men, guys are being told by men & women alike to pursue friendship with women, be emotional, be kind & understanding of women’s emotions, be softer, all these things that are more to the upfront benefit (often exclusively) of women and for guys to just wait for the payoff on the backend. not saying these thing don’t work, whole time tho men can also see that men that are ‘getting women’ tend not to be these things, at least as far as can be seen, especially in today. more time confirmed by what these women reveal in private to men that the they actually do choose about their male besties…

men & women today can both be better, but to my mind, folk just aren’t keeping it often enough, all this interaction via the remove of internet/screens, all this fake politeness, disingenuous aspirational pep talks, and denial of ugly truths, has everybody confused

Completely agree and well said.

The truth is that women's behaviors online and in person really drive the success of Tate. If women came out and said keep it 100 I have double standards, I am broke but I want a rich man, or keep it 1k I want a guy that challenges me and is attractive and successful despite me sometimes saying the contrary etc... the vacuum wouldn't exist in the first place.

The other truth is that subterfuge is really an essential part of the mating process and making intentions clear defeats the purpose of the chase IE theres incentive for lack of clarity on the womens behalf......

I think people do a disservice when they cast aside people like Tate (even though he sucks imo) as an evil figure only without delving (like you have) into why he is so popular.

 

[tokes99]

The internet is a alternate universe from the walking world. I wont even go as far to say the women who say this are usually with regular dudes. If one were to simply ask them, candidly, what they want in a man, they’ll hit you with the “Its more about how he treats me..”

60% of everything on the internet is cap.

Completely agree and well said.

The truth is that women's behaviors online and in person really drive the success of Tate. If women came out and said keep it 100 I have double standards, I am broke but I want a rich man, or keep it 1k I want a guy that challenges me and is attractive and successful despite me sometimes saying the contrary etc... the vacuum wouldn't exist in the first place.

The other truth is that subterfuge is really an essential part of the mating process and making intentions clear defeats the purpose of the chase IE theres incentive for lack of clarity on the womens behalf......

I think people do a disservice when they cast aside people like Tate (even though he sucks imo) as an evil figure only without delving (like you have) into why he is so popular.

it’s not that it’s necessarily cap, but 1. women are trying to negotiate the best deal so, (this is everyone really but i find that men tend to not be as lofty w/their relationships aspirations if their physical attraction standards are me,t [un]fortunately) it kinda behooves to start with a high price rather than a low one . then, women don’t generally approach men, it’s wild to me that so many women that eschew tradition in so many aspects of their lives will draw the line at really actively pursuing the men they claim to want, preferring men do the approaching because that’s the traditional way it always has been

i think putting tate’s influence down to how the women are behaving is way too simplistic, it plays a part but honestly it might not even be the biggest factor…but it is very much a disservice to young boys/men to be extolling the virtues of universal equality of genders but scaffolded over the double standards that we maintain, most of which benefit women albeit for good reason to course correct…even as women increase their own agency meanwhile the traditional paths to economic security for the average dude are diminishing. almost every thing in popular culture is about manhood/men is caricature, there aren’t too many top of mind examples that are explicitly masculine that men actually could or would want to be, much of boys/men natural inclination is classed as toxic, which on some level is understandable but that doesn’t make it necessarily easier to digest for men…

so when personalities like samuels, tate, etc pop up speaking to some of these things and expose parts of the game it should be expected that they will gain an audience with a lot of men

 

[mplsdunk]

You can have female friends but I wouldn’t be friends with a girl who friendzoned me.

I have a good female friend. She’s 22 I’m 35 and married.

I met her through work and don’t want to bang her and never did. I’m sure the feeling is mutual. Talk to her all the time and we hang out and it’s all good.

Her and my wife are probably better friends now than I am with her. They don’t even call me to kick it anymore.

We used to work at this ****** job together and she was a young woman in construction and all the “alpha males” treated her like **** and I thought that was pretty wack and toxic. So she just came to my crew and it was fine. We didn’t hit on her and ask her about her period like the other weirdos.

 

[fluid hips]

The problem is alot of dudes got indoctrinated at an early age by these Disney films about saving a damsel in distress. That shh will get you taken advantage of in the real world. And a lot of dudes end up being resentful towards women because of it.

 

[mplsdunk]

I listened to project pat in middle school so I was fine.

 

[jape]

You can have female friends but I wouldn’t be friends with a girl who friendzoned me.

I have a good female friend. She’s 22 I’m 35 and married.

I met her through work and don’t want to bang her and never did. I’m sure the feeling is mutual. Talk to her all the time and we hang out and it’s all good.

Her and my wife are probably better friends now than I am with her. They don’t even call me to kick it anymore.

We used to work at this ****ty job together and she was a young woman in construction and all the “alpha males” treated her like **** and I thought that was pretty wack and toxic. So she just came to my crew and it was fine. We didn’t hit on her and ask her about her period like the other weirdos.

last line was unexpectedly wild

 

[mplsdunk]

It actually happened. like bro you guys are insane here.

 

[Brownstone]

It actually happened. like bro you guys are insane here.

My girl works in construction and always tells me how the guys on her sites are something else but never offers any details, this fills in the blank pretty well no wonder she hates men.

 

[cragmatic]

The problem is alot of dudes got indoctrinated at an early age by these Disney films about saving a damsel in distress. That shh will get you taken advantage of in the real world. And a lot of dudes end up being resentful towards women because of it.

I was watching that live action Beauty and the Beast special a month or two ago with HER, where they mixed the OG with the live action musical.

I was mind blown by how awful they portrayed the male pursuing Belle as if it was his right to have her for himself. Made me wonder how many of those other Disney cartoons had similar messages.

 

[fluid hips]

I was watching that live action Beauty and the Beast special a month or two ago with HER, where they mixed the OG with the live action musical.

I was mind blown by how awful they portrayed the male Pershing Belle as if it was his right to have her for himself. Made me wonder how many of those other Disney cartoons had similar messages.

Yea alot of Disney films have archaic tropes disguised as entertainment such as women being viewed as one's property.

 

[Present]

Speaking of Disney / propaganda...

Even as a kid, I knew something was very wrong with men/messages like this:



Fast forward to today:

 

[Zainjal26]

My Muslim brother hakimi is a disciple of tate

 

[fluid hips]

 

[gry60]

My Muslim brother hakimi is a disciple of tate

PSG's Hakimi given preliminary charges on rape allegation

PARIS (AP) — Paris Saint-Germain defender Achraf Hakimi was given preliminary charges of rape, French prosecutors said Friday. The prosecutors' office in the Paris suburb of Nanterre said Hakimi was questioned on Thursday by investigators probing rape allegations.

apnews.com

This is why she's divorcing...

It also seems that:
- the story about his mother controlling his finances is fake

- and she was famous long before he got paid...

Achraf Hakimi’s divorce: The swift (misogynist) journey of fake news

The fake assumption that footballer Ashraf Hakimi’s wife wanted more than half of her husband’s fortune confirms deeply entrenched sexism among fans and reveals a lack of media literacy.

www.theafricareport.com

The story, however, is not based on reality. It perfectly illustrates the results of an MIT study published in 2018, which found that fake news spreads faster than real information.


It started with a tweet published on 13 April by the Ivorian journal First Mag. This online media platform is a regular offender when it comes to the dissemination of fake news, and seems to focus more on comedy than journalism.

From a legal point of view, this fake news is not very credible. In the majority of European countries (including Spain, Germany, Italy and France, where the player has lived successively), there are two types of matrimonial regimes: marriage in community of property, which implies that everything acquired during the marriage by one of the spouses is shared in case of divorce; and that of the separation of property, which assumes that the non-division of property is stipulated in the marriage contract.


In summary, either the fortune of the player, considered the sixth-best-paid African footballer in Europe in 2022, will be shared following the divorce with the mother of his children, or the latter already knows that she will not benefit. Hiding one’s assets from one’s spouse is considered an act of fraud.


This story, in addition to confirming the sexist logic and ease with which women are labelled “gold diggers” without proof, shows a lack of media literacy.


Even though the player’s mother refutes the story, internet users – instead of questioning whether the tweet might be false – consider her statements as proof of an elaborate communication strategy.


“In her place, I would have said the same thing” or “She is right to deny it”, they comment by the dozen.

 

[oidreez]

So why should that article be more credible than all the other ones? "Dont believe those stories, believe this one instead"

 

[gry60]

So why should that article be more credible than all the other ones? "Dont believe those stories, believe this one instead"

Because the Africa Report is a legit publication, unlike the Ivorian site where the news first appeared.

The story was also reported as a hoax by the most read online magazine in North Africa (TSA Algerie) and by Jeune Afrique, which is one of the most respected and oldest magazines covering current affairs in Africa.

 

[nice jahb]

Was going to put this in the Fools Wildin' Thread, but thought this might fit better for here.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

As a married guy my views of the current men vs women dynamic is pretty much limited to what I see through my male and female friends, family etc. but I think the “how” that got use here is more interesting than the pod cast wars.

if you listen to the Jordan Petersons of the world we’re here because society over invested in women and neglected men creating a mismatches where in the past there would have been compatibility. But because society never actually recalibrated or adjusted to what it looks like to have women take up equal space as men, all of the same “traditional” standards are what men are being held too.

I’ve also recently heard it explained that, women are encouraged and empowered to be both masculine and feminine and society has to make room for that, but men’s only option is to “out masculine” masculine women even though we don’t live in a society that calls for that level of masculinity anymore.

Whatever way you slice it, this imbalance is trickling down to causing a long angst from men and the andrew tates capitalize on it.

My unsolicited 2 cents is that men and women both need to recalibrate. Life isn’t easy and it’s too expensive to get by alone.

 

[Present]

The "How we got here" IMHO is economics.

When our economy is based on agriculture, we live as such.

When our economy is based on industrialism, we live as such.

When our economy is based on technology, we live as such.

Technology has led us to a place where we live under illusions of individualism.

The more comfortable technology makes us as individuals, the less we believe we need other human beings.

These illusions could never exist in an agricultural or industrial economy except for the most rich/powerful of us.

Now these screens have made little narcissists of us all.

Even a global pandemic means nothing compared to a global social media internet crash.

As long as these screens still work:

With A.I. on the way - things will move even further from what we know today.

People laugh now but I foresee a future where we will be able to have a different mate every month from Amazon Prime with free shipping and a subscription service for 5% off

"Prime - Mates"

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

The "How we got here" IMHO is economics.

When our economy is based on agriculture, we live as such.

When our economy is based on industrialism, we live as such.

When our economy is based on technology, we live as such.

Technology has led us to a place where we live under illusions of individualism.

The more comfortable technology makes us as individuals, the less we believe we need other human beings.

These illusions could never exist in an agricultural or industrial economy except for the most rich/powerful of us.

Now these screens have made little narcissists of us all.

Even a global pandemic means nothing compared to a global social media internet crash.

As long as these screens still work:

With A.I. on the way - things will move even further from what we know today.

People laugh now but I foresee a future where we will be able to have a different mate every month from Amazon Prime with free shipping and a subscription service for 5% off

"Prime - Mates"

Ironically tech seems to be the least successful at pairing people. According to pew, partnered adults meet their partners/spouses by and large in person, not online. The largest chunk coming from the combo of friends and family + school + work
https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/08/20/a-profile-of-single-americans/

Even more ironic I met my wife on tinder on 2013. Granted we’re from the same area, and knew a lot of the same people. We might have met eventually but I probably wouldn’t have been as bold as I was if it wasn’t for tinder lol

 

[tokes99]

As a married guy my views of the current men vs women dynamic is pretty much limited to what I see through my male and female friends, family etc. but I think the “how” that got use here is more interesting than the pod cast wars.

if you listen to the Jordan Petersons of the world we’re here because society over invested in women and neglected men creating a mismatches where in the past there would have been compatibility. But because society never actually recalibrated or adjusted to what it looks like to have women take up equal space as men, all of the same “traditional” standards are what men are being held too.

I’ve also recently heard it explained that, women are encouraged and empowered to be both masculine and feminine and society has to make room for that, but men’s only option is to “out masculine” masculine women even though we don’t live in a society that calls for that level of masculinity anymore.

Whatever way you slice it, this imbalance is trickling down to causing a long angst from men and the andrew tates capitalize on it.

My unsolicited 2 cents is that men and women both need to recalibrate. Life isn’t easy and it’s too expensive to get by alone.

definitely, i would say men & women are recalibrating tho, it just doesn't incentivize things like long-term relationship and/or marriage in the same way as times past for the masses (men especially)...the human animal is highly adaptable but one can look across cultures & time, it certainly appears that in most societies, even those where matriarchal, there was division of labor (if not value as well) between the sexes, different rites of passage into adulthood, different roles/standards, a lot of men that did not mate, due to wars, famine, lack of fitness, etc. and if a woman was sexually active she almost certainly was (eventually) a mother...

i don't think it's because society "over invested in women & neglected men' that we are here in this moment where most women don't see most men as sufficiently compatible/viable mates, but the unintended consequence of egalitarianism is more choice; for men and women alike, it just plays out differently for the respective genders generally. similarly, while women are 'allowed' to be more fluid with respect to their roles/how they are viewed and men tend to be viewed as more static in terms of what is expected, the notion does exist in popular culture/the zeitgeist that men could/should be more fluid, it's just that doesn't typically get most guys #dacheeks

men will always have angst about not being select, it likely has always taken & will continue to take men longer to become viable than women; it's just that today given the invention of adolescence, the high stratification of society (along increased visibility of said stratification and messaging that tells folk to strive for that possibility, despite the probability), and technology has shifted this even more

 

[tokes99]

Ironically tech seems to be the least successful at pairing people. According to pew, partnered adults meet their partners/spouses by and large in person, not online. The largest chunk coming from the combo of friends and family + school + work
https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/08/20/a-profile-of-single-americans/

Even more ironic I met my wife on tinder on 2013. Granted we’re from the same area, and knew a lot of the same people. We might have met eventually but I probably wouldn’t have been as bold as I was if it wasn’t for tinder lol

this seems to be pre-pandemic, the online numbers now are probably higher now...it's not ironic at all that tech isn't all that successful for pairing folk long term, i think it is accepted that online dating isn't actually all that enjoyable for most but it is---or at least can be--very efficient, in theory for some a reality for others...more recent studies have noted that today close to, if not the majority of people meeting online to start their relationship (could be in the same social circles still but via proxies like facebook, ig, snap, even tik tok), this is part of they appeals guys in tate's lane; make the money such that the lifestyle does the heavy lifting...

*edit*

anyone seen the vid where tate has a reporter waiting outside his house do an interview in exchange for a box of chocolates? it's corny but laughs were had

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

definitely, i would say men & women are recalibrating tho, it just doesn't incentivize things like long-term relationship and/or marriage in the same way as times past for the masses (men especially)...the human animal is highly adaptable but one can look across cultures & time, it certainly appears that in most societies, even those where matriarchal, there was division of labor (if not value as well) between the sexes, different rites of passage into adulthood, different roles/standards, a lot of men that did not mate, due to wars, famine, lack of fitness, etc. and if a woman was sexually active she almost certainly was (eventually) a mother...

i don't think it's because society "over invested in women & neglected men' that we are here in this moment where most women don't see most men as sufficiently compatible/viable mates, but the unintended consequence of egalitarianism is more choice; for men and women alike, it just plays out differently for the respective genders generally. similarly, while women are 'allowed' to be more fluid with respect to their roles/how they are viewed and men tend to be viewed as more static in terms of what is expected, the notion does exist in popular culture/the zeitgeist that men could/should be more fluid, it's just that doesn't typically get most guys #dacheeks

men will always have angst about not being select, it likely has always taken & will continue to take men longer to become viable than women; it's just that today given the invention of adolescence, the high stratification of society (along increased visibility of said stratification and messaging that tells folk to strive for that possibility, despite the probability), and technology has shifted this even more

See where I stand, I just don’t know how much of this already existed and how much of this is just chronically online internet talk giving people a microphone. It all sounds plausible and logical when we talk macro. But like the more I watch some of this convos play out it feels like we’re circling the drain on a convo that stems from this meme which full of a bunch of logic holes in and of itself. Its a strange convo to say the least

 

[tokes99]

See where I stand, I just don’t know how much of this already existed and how much of this is just chronically online internet talk giving people a microphone. It all sounds plausible and logical when we talk macro. But like the more I watch some of this convos play out it feels like we’re circling the drain on a convo that stems from this meme which full of a bunch of logic holes in and of itself. Its a strange convo to say the least

while a meme like this is kinda cope and it, to your point, presupposes a lot...we could just as easily flip to the women's perspective of what men overlook. memes are just a transmission/understanding of some aspect of culture, they need not be 'true' to be understood but this particular meme does get at something that tends to be more true for men, tho definitely not exclusively, it can be true for anyone/thing really...the thing that is worth remembering in this context you mention of how & what existed and when, is the values & expectations of the time. as a baseline, were just animals and there are innate attraction triggers for either long term & short term relationship that both men & women have, then there are cultural, familial, group, & societal overlays; not much is new under the sun, culture & technology has just facilitated or suppressed some of the innate desires & preferences, depending on the utility of said innate desires & preferences in the context of the eras. sometimes these align and other times they seem to be anachronistic, given the current relative prosperity in the industrialized world much about men can seem more like the latter, and women doing their own adjustments and the men are adjusting to that