Andrew Tate. DONE.

[Wargames]

43-year-old married Smith had sex with her son's 22-year-old mentally unstable friend and went on to monetize the act for the world to see (with impunity).

Some may say "horrible wife" doesn't quite sum her up yet the word misandrist somehow doesn't appear in such cases...but I digress.

As far as the "sex slave ring" accusation, Tate was in fact arrested. I'll wait for the facts to come out in the trial.

There are more women/girls falling victim to sex trafficking globally every year so let us not pretend we are all of a sudden cracking down on the issue a la Tate.

IMHO neither are the cause of what's going on in our society.

Some folks just need a boogie man to point to.

Like pointing at a running faucet on the Titanic.

You whole argument is Whataboutism but that doesn’t excuse the **** Tate says or the acts he’s done. Equating a woman cheating on her husband to a man monetizing misogyny is part of the problem with society. Everything isn’t a us vs. them situation that needs to be debated or compared.

Tate is a ****ed up person in a very unique way, peddling bad advice about women through a Ponzi scheme so he can buy fancy cars. Opening a compound in Romania so he can have a porn studio and avoid the laws of the US/Western Europe. Tate and Jada both might be Narcissist but one is a celebrity actress and the other is criminal demagogue. Not calling Tate out for what he is does contribute to the slide of society towards whatever negative outcome you’re alluding too.

 

[1995]

Comparing misogyny and misandry as if they are on equal footing in the modern world is a wild false equivalence

Like comparing Wal-Mart to a Mom and Pop

 

[Present]

You whole argument is Whataboutism but that doesn’t excuse the **** Tate says or the acts he’s done. Equating a woman cheating on her husband to a man monetizing misogyny is part of the problem with society. Everything isn’t a us vs. them situation that needs to be debated or compared.

Tate is a ****ed up person in a very unique way, peddling bad advice about women through a Ponzi scheme so he can buy fancy cars. Opening a compound in Romania so he can have a porn studio and avoid the laws of the US/Western Europe. Tate and Jada both might be Narcissist but one is a celebrity actress and the other is criminal demagogue. Not calling Tate out for what he is does contribute to the slide of society towards whatever negative outcome you’re alluding too.

Whataboutism?

If you say so Champ.

IMHO you're actually proving my point by investing so heavily in what Tate got going on.

The problem is the keyboards we are typing on and the screens we are looking at all day long.

Have you ever seen a "manosphere" in real life?

I'm from an era where we actually had to get out of the house and interact with other people who didn't share our views or look like us, in real life, every day.

The main reason shock jocks/propaganda didn't work as well on us is we had something called "mess around and find out".

People knew Al & Peggy Bundy were characters on TV - for entertainment purposes only.

We actually had to prove our theories about life vs type, click, upvote, cancel, etc.

These days we spend the majority of our time in a virtual world called the internet that has zero actual bearing on reality.

Combine that with the breakdown of the nuclear family and the internet is raising our kids.

What the likes of Tate and Smith have going on has absolutely zero impact on my life.

The main reason for this is...I actually have a life.

I had a Mother and a Father, who raised me under a system of accountability for my own thoughts, ways, and actions.

They provided me with a moral compass, values, principles, virtues, and a code to live by whether I chose to do so or not.

The internet doesn't do that...nor was it designed to.

IJS - people are people Fam.

There are consequences to turning our backs on traditional family values.

None of this is new.

We've been on this path for decades.

 

[tokes99]

The guy said he moved to Romania to escape punishment for abusing women.

What he said before and after doesn't matter as far as I'm concerned.

did he say that or is that something that has been supposed, after the allegations? i do think many of the things he has said about operating in romania have come back around to his disadvantage , until the things dude is accused of are really substantiated i think it best to reserve that interpretation

The breakdown of the nuclear family, changing values and morals, "us vs them" cultural and social conditioning, narcissism and selfishness, the constant need to feel good, be "right", and look down on others who disagree, misinformation, consumerism, replacing moral correctness for political correctness, etc over decades and decades.

Tate isn't a cause, he is a symptom.

For every misogynist there are misandrists.

There has always been Andrew Tate.

There has always been Jada Smith.

IMHO they are at best shock jocks who capitalize on their ability to generate an audience in fields where attention is currency.

Nothing new.

There is no boogie man. We are the only monsters here.

Compared to what we saw on TV in the 90s, Tate is a Care Bear.

Spoiler

i’d agree that tate is more of a symptom, i just think it’s hilarious that folk are trying to pin the ‘misogynist’ label on what are fairly traditional values, albeit tate says them in the most provocative/provoking ways.

i get there is a double standard but folk don’t have the same ire for women that literally say they hate men and genuinely resent what men are; some may actually even have good reason to do so, but there aren’t many schools worried about all these women on tik tok that girls follow that similarly influence young girls/women negatively…

This reminds me of debate club…. But **** it let’s go down the rabbit hole

1. That doesn’t make sense. If she second guessed the date she could just not go on it. Also her first response to him saying dinner date is literally “Dinner Date?” that further supports my point that he didn’t ask her out on a date and flipped it on her later via text.

Your theory requires a lot more leaps of logic and assumptions of subtext because the actual text questions them meeting being a date and we see her in real time adjusts to further emphasizes that it is not a date once it was brought to her attention he thought it was a date. She asks him to mimic her behavior to show agreement that it is not a date.

2. The ultimate goal should be to be good enough with women that you can maintain a romantic relationship or a friendship. Some men are naturally attractive to women and still can’t maintain a relationship with them to save their life. Approaching women endlessly is a bad habit because trying to PUA your way into a relationship (aka the numbers game) is what usually leads to men’s resentment towards women.

Before the Manosphere made it fashionable to resent them, online men groups advocated endless approaches as the secret to get women until they realized how empty that was too. Now those were the successful guys, for the awkward guys Internalizing a endless approach mentality ignores how the sense of failure a man get from approaching lots of women and failing skewers a man’s view of women from objectification (bad) to them being their opponents (worse). You could say that they will build a tougher skin, but once again a tougher skin for what? To resent women more? Constantly hitting on women with no game plan outside of charming them (when these are awkward men to begin with) is already a recipe for failure, now add resentment due to consistent negative reinforcement to it and you end up with “Men going their own way”.

Meanwhile having platonic relationships with women might be frustrating but there is no better way to learn how to be someone that women enjoy being around, how to talk to them in lower pressure non-sexual way, and how to express what you really want in a non-offensive way. Learning that your attraction to a woman doesn’t have to be reciprocated for them to be a valuable part of your life also avoid the example above. If a man can recognize platonic interest they can then separate platonic and romantic interest. He’ll know how to avoid asking a friend out or disregarding actual signs of romantic interest. Interacting with women in a non-sexual way can help a man understand that you can do things that make them attractive to women in general and not to waste their time pursuing women not into them. Asking women out without any idea on how to treat them once you take them out is a the ultimate waste of time. To summarize recognizing women as people makes it easier for you to like them and them to like you.

never was on the debate team but my people would always say i should have been a lawyer or a philosopher, not that they necessarily think i would have made a good one tho , given my propensity to entertain/look at multiple sides of an argument.

1. we’re all making assumptions, we know nothing about these people, their ages, how they look, if there is actually an attraction, their experiences…i’ll just say it isn’t that unheard of for women to feign misunderstandings in dating, it could certainly be that my guy wasn’t clear enough…but there are women that might still kinda like a guy but to want a friend there as a sort of insurance in case it goes bad, or she could really like the guy and want the friend there in case it really goes well , or she may not like him at all and be using him for the experience, we can’t know…all we know is he said he thought it was a romantic date & regardless if his initial intentions were unclear, that text brought clarity and notice she didn’t immediately respond by shutting down that possibility, i.e. saying something along the lines of ‘i don’t like you like that’ tho that could be what she means to say, she too is being vague (maybe unintentionally)

2. my thing is just this, if one is trying to get a non platonic relationship thats probably what that person should pursue…what you are kinda saying is like saying someone should run track or better still play rugby to get good at football (you can decide whether it’s soccer or american football), sure there are some transferable qualities but ultimately if you want to be good at football, you gotta play football.

i think it makes sense to make attraction clear & a romantic relationship is the intention, which involves trying to get to know someone now if it doesn’t work out & both decide they can be friends & folk genuinely become cool, that’s just what happened…but often times this is one sided, and the other party is just acquiescing as to maintain some sort relationship in hopes of something eventually changing later, which does sometimes happen…

also if the aim is to actually be good at getting women, it is entirely a numbers game, if the goal is to get a woman…then less so, still i’d say it better to rip the bandage off and just get to it, it doesn’t make sense to pursue friendships with women, if that isn’t really the intention, not that platonic friendships are senseless/can’t have utility if the are indeed platonic. fact is for most men being good at the former kinda requires approaching enough women to get comfortable with them (individual mileage may vary), because unless that guy has just always been ‘one of them ones’ women aren’t very likely to approach most guys, so women just have more opportunities to figure out what they (don’t) like compared to men, especially if the men aren’t outchea dealing with women. for the latter, this isn’t required and mosts guys prior to internet dating would probably meet their woman through their social group(s) giving them repeated exposure/opportunities to become attractive & a co-sign within those in the group(s). the way a lot of people are getting together today, via screens, makes it substantially tougher for both genders to actually get together and i don’t think folk should dither around if their goals aren’t aligned

 

[Present]

Comparing misogyny and misandry as if they are on equal footing in the modern world is a wild false equivalence

Like comparing Wal-Mart to a Mom and Pop

This is exactly why some folks believe Tate has an audience

Misogyny:

Misandry:

People are people Fam.

Right and wrong don't have a sex or a gender

 

[1995]

Well sure if you're just comparing the matching dictionary definitions and ignoring how they actually function in the real world

Seems like a shallow interpretation to me, but whatever

Cute dog tho

 

[Wargames]

did he say that or is that something that has been supposed, after the allegations? i do think many of the things he has said about operating in romania have come back around to his disadvantage , until the things dude is accused of are really substantiated i think it best to reserve that interpretation



i’d agree that tate is more of a symptom, i just think it’s hilarious that folk are trying to pin the ‘misogynist’ label on what are fairly traditional values, albeit tate says them in the most provocative/provoking ways.

i get there is a double standard but folk don’t have the same ire for women that literally say they hate men and genuinely resent what men are; some may actually even have good reason to do so, but there aren’t many schools worried about all these women on tik tok that girls follow that similarly influence young girls/women negatively…



never was on the debate team but my people would always say i should have been a lawyer or a philosopher, not that they necessarily think i would have made a good one tho , given my propensity to entertain/look at multiple sides of an argument.

1. we’re all making assumptions, we know nothing about these people, their ages, how they look, if there is actually an attraction, their experiences…i’ll just say it isn’t that unheard of for women to feign misunderstandings in dating, it could certainly be that my guy wasn’t clear enough…but there are women that might still kinda like a guy but to want a friend there as a sort of insurance in case it goes bad, or she could really like the guy and want the friend there in case it really goes well , or she may not like him at all and be using him for the experience, we can’t know…all we know is he said he thought it was a romantic date & regardless if his initial intentions were unclear, that text brought clarity and notice she didn’t immediately respond by shutting down that possibility, i.e. saying something along the lines of ‘i don’t like you like that’ tho that could be what she means to say, she too is being vague (maybe unintentionally)

2. my thing is just this, if one is trying to get a non platonic relationship thats probably what that person should pursue…what you are kinda saying is like saying someone should run track or better still play rugby to get good at football (you can decide whether it’s soccer or american football), sure there are some transferable qualities but ultimately if you want to be good at football, you gotta play football.

i think it makes sense to make attraction clear & a romantic relationship is the intention, which involves trying to get to know someone now if it doesn’t work out & both decide they can be friends & folk genuinely become cool, that’s just what happened…but often times this is one sided, and the other party is just acquiescing as to maintain some sort relationship in hopes of something eventually changing later, which does sometimes happen…

also if the aim is to actually be good at getting women, it is entirely a numbers game, if the goal is to get a woman…then less so, still i’d say it better to rip the bandage off and just get to it, it doesn’t make sense to pursue friendships with women, if that isn’t really the intention, not that platonic friendships are senseless/can’t have utility if the are indeed platonic. fact is for most men being good at the former kinda requires approaching enough women to get comfortable with them (individual mileage may vary), because unless that guy has just always been ‘one of them ones’ women aren’t very likely to approach most guys, so women just have more opportunities to figure out what they (don’t) like compared to men, especially if the men aren’t outchea dealing with women. for the latter, this isn’t required and mosts guys prior to internet dating would probably meet their woman through their social group(s) giving them repeated exposure/opportunities to become attractive & a co-sign within those in the group(s). the way a lot of people are getting together today, via screens, makes it substantially tougher for both genders to actually get together and i don’t think folk should dither around if their goals aren’t aligned

1. I’ve dated a lot of women, and I know many more and your scenarios don’t make sense if she agreed to go on a date with him prior to that text. We’re making assumptions but you really got to go into fan fiction territory to think she is backing out of an established date so oddly when she could just not go and string him along another way.

2. Once again “good at getting women” is such a shallow term. A man who can buy endless prostitutes is good at getting women. The issue is most of these guys couldn’t be with a woman Longterm unless she was his Siamese twin. However, you bring up one of my personal biggest issues with Tate’s advice to lonely men. The vast majority of men do not have the resources to date a bunch of women. I have dated multiple women at a single time and it’s just a pleasant way to waste your time, energy, and money. However, it’s even more pointless if you’re not able to even date one woman. The numbers game can’t help a man who can’t get a single person, and the people who idolize Tate usually cannot get a single woman.

My approach in a sports metaphor is learning to ride a bike with training wheels, the vast majority of people learn to ride that way for a reason. Not everyone does, but it helps orientate people to the process. Same with making platonic relationships with a woman, most men can’t succeed with women because they don’t know women. They just know they want them.

 

[Gex the Damaja]

I've been following his story since he was jailed and have been waiting one of his podcast. Taking longer than expected but continues to push his products/courses and still getting people daily. Very interesting cult of personality.

With that, I think their needs to be something said as a more individuals with "misogynist" views seem to be finding a new home in Islam. As a non follower of the faith, I don't think it's a great look people see that as a safe haven for those views. The lines are becoming blurred between "traditional" values and "misogynistic" values and individuals are taking advantage of that.

 

[Wargames]

Whataboutism?

If you say so Champ.

IMHO you're actually proving my point by investing so heavily in what Tate got going on.

The problem is the keyboards we are typing on and the screens we are looking at all day long.

Have you ever seen a "manosphere" in real life?

I'm from an era where we actually had to get out of the house and interact with other people who didn't share our views or look like us, in real life, every day.

The main reason shock jocks/propaganda didn't work as well on us is we had something called "mess around and find out".

People knew Al & Peggy Bundy were characters on TV - for entertainment purposes only.

We actually had to prove our theories about life vs type, click, upvote, cancel, etc.

These days we spend the majority of our time in a virtual world called the internet that has zero actual bearing on reality.

Combine that with the breakdown of the nuclear family and the internet is raising our kids.

What the likes of Tate and Smith have going on has absolutely zero impact on my life.

The main reason for this is...I actually have a life.

I had a Mother and a Father, who raised me under a system of accountability for my own thoughts, ways, and actions.

They provided me with a moral compass, values, principles, virtues, and a code to live by whether I chose to do so or not.

The internet doesn't do that...nor was it designed to.

IJS - people are people Fam.

There are consequences to turning our backs on traditional family values.

None of this is new.

We've been on this path for decades.

The fact that you say this and yet you’re not with me in the camp that Tate is scum just feels like cognitive dissonance.

Also I have seen a large number of grown men champion the manosphere, PUA, Kevin Samuel’s, and Tate in real life, and I take the time to try and correct them there too. Guys like Tate take advantage of frustrated men and offer them outward solutions to issues they need to address internally.

If anything we can agree the blame is modern society for a lot of these issues but that is another conversation. Debating if Tate is a rat bastard is the main topic here.

 

[cragmatic]

I've been following his story since he was jailed and have been waiting one of his podcast. Taking longer than expected but continues to push his products/courses and still getting people daily. Very interesting cult of personality.

With that, I think their needs to be something said as a more individuals with "misogynist" views seem to be finding a new home in Islam. As a non follower of the faith, I don't think it's a great look people see that as a safe haven for those views. The lines are becoming blurred between "traditional" values and "misogynistic" values and individuals are taking advantage of that.

“Continues to push his products/courses.”

It’s a grift!

 

[oidreez]

1. I have asked out more than my share of women and if you say “Hype for our Dinner date” and she hits you with that response about “I’m calling my friend to come bring a friend too” you didn’t initially ask her out for a date.

2. Making platonic relationships is the goal though. That’s the thing you got to realize finding female friends is a key part to finding a girlfriend. Even if you get her on a date, you should know how to show her a good time, be fun to be around, talk to her like a human being. Seduction is a everything in between that you do as you escalate a relationship.

I don’t know how to express this in a way you would get when your not even admitting Tate hates women.

Even if the guy in this possibly fictitious scenario was ambiguous to the effect of "lets hang out after class at this place" how could it be so ambiguous to the point of her asking to bring friends along? That's wild.

Why couldnt she have just declined if she wasnt feeling him like that? Her response is so damn cringey

 

[Belgium]

Meanwhile having platonic relationships with women might be frustrating but there is no better way to learn how to be someone that women enjoy being around, how to talk to them in lower pressure non-sexual way, and how to express what you really want in a non-offensive way. Learning that your attraction to a woman doesn’t have to be reciprocated for them to be a valuable part of your life also avoid the example above. If a man can recognize platonic interest they can then separate platonic and romantic interest. He’ll know how to avoid asking a friend out or disregarding actual signs of romantic interest. Interacting with women in a non-sexual way can help a man understand that you can do things that make them attractive to women in general and not to waste their time pursuing women not into them. Asking women out without any idea on how to treat them once you take them out is a the ultimate waste of time. To summarize recognizing women as people makes it easier for you to like them and them to like you.

The person I consider to be my best friend is a woman, and vice versa in her case. Aside from the obvious value of a friendship, I think having a close relationship with a woman is also just handy for whenever you want some advice on women. Also, having a wingwoman is great.
We often hang out with just the two of us to have drinks, watch movies, attend theater shows, ... or go out to 'tinder events' at a club together, which is an event where a roughly 50/50 male/female split is enforced and only singles are allowed. You can get a badge stating some outward characteristics of your type (like brunettes etc) and a heart sticker that you can put on eachother if you find a 'match'. Having the heart sticker on you signals to others that you no longer want others in the club to continue hitting on you.
She acts as my wingwoman and vice versa. I always sleep over at her apartment after a night out because hers is far closer to mine so if I or both of us want to take someone home that's fine by her.

The thing with platonic friendships with women though is that you're probably going to have to discuss some boundaries/intentions at some point.
I think it's perfectly fair for the woman to question your true intentions at some point. Platonic relationships tend be to questioned or looked down upon.
I've heard the "lol what's the point of continuing to be friends if you're not smashing" plenty of times, and I think in a lot of cases guys lead women on by pretending to engage and stay in a platonic friendship while never abandoning their delusional pursuit of something more than friendship.

 

[Wargames]

Even if the guy in this possibly fictitious scenario was ambiguous to the effect of "lets hang out after class at this place" how could it be so ambiguous to the point of her asking to bring friends along? That's wild.

Why couldnt she have just declined if she wasnt feeling him like that? Her response is so damn cringey

They both should cancel, I couldn’t imagine a more awkward dinner, but that’s not the issue.

The issue is based on her responses he probably said to her the equivalent of “let’s hang out” or “let’s go out”, and when she found out his intentions she responded badly. Imagine if a male friend tried to turn hanging out to “let’s go out on a date”. It’s gonna be disorientating and you might not respond perfectly.

Asking a woman out on a date is such a straightforward indication of intentions it shouldnt be a question but a statement. Because there should be signs she is feeling you on a sexual/romantic level even if you just met.

 

[Gex the Damaja]

“Continues to push his products/courses.”

It’s a grift!

Ultimately, his main goal is to line his pockets. The podcast, risque statements, etc are all a plot to sell you an exit out of the "matrix". Not to say he doesn't believe what he says, just the main goal is to get you to believe what he says.

 

[Wargames]

The person I consider to be my best friend is a woman, and vice versa in her case. Aside from the obvious value of a friendship, I think having a close relationship with a woman is also just handy for whenever you want some advice on women. Also, having a wingwoman is great.
We often hang out with just the two of us to have drinks, watch movies, attend theater shows, ... or go out to 'tinder events' at a club together, which is an event where a roughly 50/50 male/female split is enforced and only singles are allowed. You can get a badge stating some outward characteristics of your type (like brunettes etc) and a heart sticker that you can put on eachother if you find a 'match'. Having the heart sticker on you signals to others that you no longer want others in the club to continue hitting on you.
She acts as my wingwoman and vice versa. I always sleep over at her apartment after a night out because hers is far closer to mine so if I or both of us want to take someone home that's fine by her.

The thing with platonic friendships with women though is that you're probably going to have to discuss some boundaries/intentions at some point.
I think it's perfectly fair for the woman to question your true intentions at some point. Platonic relationships tend be to questioned or looked down upon.
I've heard the "lol what's the point of continuing to be friends if you're not smashing" plenty of times, and I think in a lot of cases guys lead women on by pretending to engage and stay in a platonic friendship while never abandoning their delusional pursuit of something more than friendship.

That’s my whole argument though. A lot of men just need to learn how to make their intentions clear and actually be someone women would find enjoyable to be around. Having female friends helps learn how to do all of that.

 

[Present]

The fact that you say this and yet you’re not with me in the camp that Tate is scum just feels like cognitive dissonance.

Also I have seen a large number of grown men champion the manosphere, PUA, Kevin Samuel’s, and Tate in real life, and I take the time to try and correct them there too. Guys like Tate take advantage of frustrated men and offer them outward solutions to issues they need to address internally.

If anything we can agree the blame is modern society for a lot of these issues but that is another conversation. Debating if Tate is a rat bastard is the main topic here.

Saying "Tate is Scum" & "debating if Tate is a rat bastard" is like using an air freshener w/o flushing the toilet IMHO.

No amount of ad hominem Tate hate is going to make this smell go away.

Matter of fact it seems the more people focus on hating Tate (as opposed to actually respecting these young men's experiences / listening to what these young men are saying) the more popular Tate becomes to the young/impressionable malcontents who follow him / pay him for his ridiculousness.

Cults of personality (Tate, Trump, etc) arise from conditions that we'd best pay attention to. Very real things that can't be fixed on the internet.

Why are these men frustrated?

What did the young men of yesterday have that the young men of today don't?

What has changed in our culture and society to bring us here?

Things go in cycles. None of this is new.

Some might even say it's planned to be like this with decades of the destruction of the nuclear family in favor of corporate interests.

Divide and conquer.

Also...

"I have seen a large number of grown men champion the manosphere, PUA, Kevin Samuel’s, and Tate in real life, and I take the time to try and correct them there too"

"Correct Them"? Word?

These days I stay out of the way and mind my own business.

Niketalk is cool for the back and forth but the longer I live the more I realize the value of shutting up and using my ears and eyes more than my mouth when out in public / speaking with folks I don't know.

Had the cobbler put grip tape on my Chelsea boots a long time ago

 

[fluid hips]

I can't lie my older bro hit me with some wisdom at 16 that changed my teen years.

"Women are like gum, they taste good in your mouth and when you spit them out they stick to your shoe"

What if you avoid and not step in said gum

 

[Wargames]

Saying "Tate is Scum" & "debating if Tate is a rat bastard" is like using an air freshener w/o flushing the toilet IMHO.

No amount of ad hominem Tate hate is going to make this smell go away.

Matter of fact it seems the more people focus on hating Tate (as opposed to actually respecting these young men's experiences / listening to what these young men are saying) the more popular Tate becomes to the young/impressionable malcontents who follow him / pay him for his ridiculousness.

Cults of personality (Tate, Trump, etc) arise from conditions that we'd best pay attention to. Very real things that can't be fixed on the internet.

Why are these men frustrated?

What did the young men of yesterday have that the young men of today don't?

What has changed in our culture and society to bring us here?

Things go in cycles. None of this is new.

Some might even say it's planned to be like this with decades of the destruction of the nuclear family in favor of corporate interests.

Divide and conquer.

Also...

"I have seen a large number of grown men champion the manosphere, PUA, Kevin Samuel’s, and Tate in real life, and I take the time to try and correct them there too"

"Correct Them"? Word?

These days I stay out of the way and mind my own business.

Niketalk is cool for the back and forth but the longer I live the more I realize the value of shutting up and using my ears and eyes more than my mouth when out in public / speaking with folks I don't know.

Had the cobbler put grip tape on my Chelsea boots a long time ago

See this is the bull**** I try to correct, and yeah I said correct because actual people have to function in society. I would feel a sort of way if I could stop someone wasting their life following some YouTuber and I didn’t at least try to explain to them how to actually get their life right based on reality.

Nobody is going to guillotine the rich because they didn’t grow up in a nuclear household. 99% of men cannot actually live out alpha male fantasies because it’s a criminal lifestyle and they will end up in jail. Tate actually tried to live the life he spoke about and ended up in a Romanian jail. I very much expect there to continue to be another grifter after Tate because there are always another grifter, but I’ll call them out to.

However, if telling someone to ignore this specific grifter of nonsense and to instead get a stable job, learn how to talk to women, buy some cologne, dress well, and regularly get a hair cut makes me a snob , then I guess I am snob. I would say I am on the other side of the line because I do well with women, most my friends do well with women, and all of us get along with women. You don’t need to support a criminal to do well with women.

 

[Present]

However, if telling someone to ignore this specific grifter of nonsense and to instead get a stable job, learn how to talk to women, buy some cologne, dress well, and regularly get a hair cut makes me a snob , then I guess I am snob. I would say I am on the other side of the line because I do well with women, most my friends do well with women, and all of us get along with women. You don’t need to support a criminal to do well with women.

Welcome to the Chelsea Club Brudda!

 

[Gex the Damaja]

However, if telling someone to ignore this specific grifter of nonsense and to instead get a stable job, learn how to talk to women, buy some cologne, dress well, and regularly get a hair cut makes me a snob , then I guess I am snob. I would say I am on the other side of the line because I do well with women, most my friends do well with women, and all of us get along with women. You don’t need to support a criminal to do well with women.

This issue seems to be, in the younger generation, this doesn't equal success as it did in the past. Reading that now, I'm wondering how close is this to the "Print out your resume and hit the streets" slogan for jobs. Times have changed, it's not just a one sided male centric issue.

Also don't think the message makes you a snob, the delivery tone could be better.

 

[Belgium]

Literally all you need is being well groomed first of all, and be able to talk to and flirt with women.
If you unfortunately simply don’t have an attractive face, try to excell in your style, grooming, humor, … and don’t be delusional complaining that models are turning you down.

Be confident and comfortable with who you are.

 

[Present]

Let the internet tell it all men need to be 6 feet tall, with 6 packs, and make over 6 figures while secretly running a credit card scam operation from our penthouses atop Stark Tower in order to get women.

 

[tokes99]

1. I’ve dated a lot of women, and I know many more and your scenarios don’t make sense if she agreed to go on a date with him prior to that text. We’re making assumptions but you really got to go into fan fiction territory to think she is backing out of an established date so oddly when she could just not go and string him along another way.

2. Once again “good at getting women” is such a shallow term. A man who can buy endless prostitutes is good at getting women. The issue is most of these guys couldn’t be with a woman Longterm unless she was his Siamese twin. However, you bring up one of my personal biggest issues with Tate’s advice to lonely men. The vast majority of men do not have the resources to date a bunch of women. I have dated multiple women at a single time and it’s just a pleasant way to waste your time, energy, and money. However, it’s even more pointless if you’re not able to even date one woman. The numbers game can’t help a man who can’t get a single person, and the people who idolize Tate usually cannot get a single woman.

My approach in a sports metaphor is learning to ride a bike with training wheels, the vast majority of people learn to ride that way for a reason. Not everyone does, but it helps orientate people to the process. Same with making platonic relationships with a woman, most men can’t succeed with women because they don’t know women. They just know they want them.

1. men’s & women’s thoughts on what is logical sensible when it comes to dating can be a chasm rife & ripe for misunderstanding(s), you shouldn’t make your experience with women the be all of possibilities…i’m not saying any of those scenarios are the case, i don’t know but they are just plausible suppositions, i’ve known guys that showed up on what they believed to be a solo date only to find that the girl brought a friend or was with friends unbeknownst to him…there are surveys & podcasts outchea where women openly admit to having guys queued up in their phone as food, shopping, cash dispensers and such; obvious this not the majority of women but neither is it completely insignificant. you are putting the responsibility on him to be unambiguous but you're assuming he wasn’t just from her response, it really could be him saying he was ‘hyped’ for what she thought was a benign date made her want have an ever present signal that he should lower his expectations

2. i can agree with the phrasing “good at getting women” being lacking, or even being shallow, the mention prostitution is in bad faith but i can see what you mean…still doesn’t change that some want to go down that hedonic road of being able to be the type of guy that can be attractive & smooth with women, some go down that path and realize it is kinda empty, some revel in it; some are able to do so ‘naturally,’ some may have to be analytical about, some never figure it out, but it is a thing

i also agree with sentiment that dating can be expensive, period; moreso if you are entertaining multiple women. it being a numbers game doesn’t necessarily imply dating a bunch of women tho, most guys issue is the approach as such the way to get over that is to actually approach & not be so attached to the outcome of the approach and learn to read those signs such that one then proceeds as makes sense for the situation that guy wants, whether it be one woman or multiple. also agree a lot men don’t know how to ‘be’ around/with women, i just not sure that recommending seeking non platonic relationships with women is the solve…

to be clear, i don’t necessarily disagree that going the ‘friends 1st’ route can work but my point is it’s not only circuitous & delaying the inevitable decision point, i.e. the possibility of being more than friends, it isn’t really even the same thing as a relationship where there is a genuine attraction, there are no real stakes in platonic relationship in terms of attraction that there would be in a non platonic one, so it it really all that transferable in general?

Literally all you need is being well groomed first of all, and be able to talk to and flirt with women.
If you unfortunately simply don’t have an attractive face, try to excell in your style, grooming, humor, … and don’t be delusional complaining that models are turning you down.

Be confident and comfortable with who you are.

yea i think this is all good advice when actual sharing the same physical space, the only thing is today folk are meeting online where the bias is towards looks and most dudes are not in tune with caring about or knowing flattering angles for pics, taking good pics, even if they are are those things you mentioned. i do think that for as much as women’s floor of expectations has risen i think young men seeing ig baddies infiltrate their timeline on daily & the availability of explicitly sexual content also has changed men’s expectations and someone like tate can play to that..

Let the internet tell it all men need to be 6 feet tall, with 6 packs, and make over 6 figures while secretly running a credit card scam operation from our penthouses atop Stark Tower in order to get women.

the funny thing about this is it kinda true, at least on the internet…women’s podcasts & visible popular celebrities that talk about dating inadvertently co-sign much of what tate & the manosphere types say about having to essentially be a created player, is it then a surprise that some of the nonsense get validated meanwhile all the dudes they get with & talk about are all eff-boys

 

[Brownstone]

My view on female friendships has shifted, I think it's plausible even with the obvious complications of sexual tensions and the confusion that exists between the sexes, I do think it's easier for women to be friends with men though.

I have to be honest I tire of Andrew Tate, there are for better people I disagree with as well that are just more....interesting.

There will continue to be Andrew Tates online as long as there are incels who are sick and tired of not getting play. I think the human condition forces people to look everywhere but the mirror for the source of their issues.

It's essentially a pyramid scheme with soundbites of virility to supplement legitimacy

The reason I get so upset when people online (mostly salty women) compare Tate to legends such as Kevin Samuels is that although their audiences have overlap (misogynistic men) Kevin's target audience included well meaning men that felt abandoned, and told that their situation's were through only their fault alone and told them it wasn't, + backed it up with data, + was entertaining as hell.

 

[tokes99]

My view on female friendships has shifted, I think it's plausible even with the obvious complications of sexual tensions and the confusion that exists between the sexes, I do think it's easier for women to be friends with men though.

There will continue to be Andrew Tates online as long as there are incels who are sick and tired of not getting play. I think the human condition forces people to look everywhere but the mirror for the source of their issues.

agree that there will another that comes along and fills this vacuum, it could be a coincidence that tate emerged after the passing of samuels and tate’s rise would have happened because he was speaking to the inadequacies and/or frustration felt by men regardless…but that spot was vacated seems to have been beneficial to his come up

folk are quick to pull the incel card as a reasoning, i just think the male condition for all species that reproduce via sex is trying to solve for the ‘problem’ that is reproduction, reproduction for females is generally about being a good selector…i don’t know what the numbers are for all species but it doesn’t seem improbable that a large number of the males of every species never get the opportunity to mate for many reasons; the default for human animal is not all that different…

my thing with the rise of tate et al, along with general fall of the concept, general opinion, & understanding of men, guys are being told by men & women alike to pursue friendship with women, be emotional, be kind & understanding of women’s emotions, be softer, all these things that are more to the upfront benefit (often exclusively) of women and for guys to just wait for the payoff on the backend. not saying these thing don’t work, whole time tho men can also see that men that are ‘getting women’ tend not to be these things, at least as far as can be seen, especially in today. more time confirmed by what these women reveal in private to men that the they actually do choose about their male besties…

men & women today can both be better, but to my mind, folk just aren’t keeping it often enough, all this interaction via the remove of internet/screens, all this fake politeness, disingenuous aspirational pep talks, and denial of ugly truths, has everybody confused