Asian Culture Discussion Thread

[unkn0wn]

There were a bunch of Asian gangs here with "oriental" in them lol

 

[frink85]

I’m surprised no one mentioned how the term “oriental” became offensive/a degrading word.

it came from a book called “orientalism” written by historian Edward Said

Orientalism (book) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

the book is one of the most controversial books in the subject of history and it’s what made the term degrading.
The thing is, the book was not on Eastern Asians, but actually about people living in Asia, Middle East, and North Africa. He described people living in these areas as almost objects and not as “real people” and argued that their culture came from Romanticized European views.

damn, thanks for that. I had AA studies classes in college and had a lot of reading from that book. I couldn’t think of the root/origin of the usage.

 

[sfsjjang98]

Yo, I'm not sure if this thread covers all of asian or not, but I just have a quick question for the east asians in here. Is describing someone of east descent asian as "oriental" offensive and if so why?

I come in peace.

All following responses: well said. Not much more to add. Don't say it. Even rugs..I feel like are referred to as Persian rugs.
-
So recently, something came up during conversation with a group of people from various racial backgrounds. I was the only Asian there.
The topic centered around me calling an uber to go 1 mile away to a market, at 11pm to get some stuff.
I didn't feel it would be smart to be walking around this upper middle class suburban city in the Southwest at 11pm.
One dude was particularly vocal about how dumb that was, and that I had nothing to worry about unless I was a POC.

So with that, I'm curious, does anyone consider Asian to be people of color or not?

 

[marikomorose]

All following responses: well said. Not much more to add. Don't say it. Even rugs..I feel like are referred to as Persian rugs.
-
So recently, something came up during conversation with a group of people from various racial backgrounds. I was the only Asian there.
The topic centered around me calling an uber to go 1 mile away to a market, at 11pm to get some stuff.
I didn't feel it would be smart to be walking around this upper middle class suburban city in the Southwest at 11pm.
One dude was particularly vocal about how dumb that was, and that I had nothing to worry about unless I was a POC.

So with that, I'm curious, does anyone consider Asian to be people of color or not?

I think the “poc” tag is stupid in general especially when it’s applied to the average East Asian b/c most of times that I have seen they are white. Whiter than “white” people themselves. Minority is a more practical and inclusionary term. People of color makes me think of the Jim Crow era. Also, anyone not “white“ in the U.S. is a minority.

 

[whatscomplex]

In Europe they call Indians & Pakistanis Asian but in America most people don't consider them as Asians.

pretty much East Asian (Japanese/Chinese etc), southeast Asian (Thai/Cambodian etc) or south Asian (Indian/paki etc)

I feel like there needs to be a more common word that groups up East Asians and Southeast Asians.

I know it's how we use Asian mostly in this country, but in 2019, I always see some woke person challenging people if they use it that way cause they wanna be more inclusive of that term. Which is fine, but it seems impractical to type out E and SE Asian everytime if I wanna make a point related to those stereotypes/experiences.

 

[whatscomplex]

I think the “poc” tag is stupid in general especially when it’s applied to the average East Asian b/c most of times that I have seen they are white. Whiter than “white” people themselves. Minority is a more practical and inclusionary term. People of color makes me think of the Jim Crow era. Also, anyone not “white“ in the U.S. is a minority.

I think it's cause minority only works in America whereas sometimes I see discussions being contextualized outside of America.

For example, if you go to Asia and speak on white people getting privilege there, it doesn't really make sense to use the term minority.

 

[marikomorose]

I think it's cause minority only works in America whereas sometimes I see discussions being contextualized outside of America.

For example, if you go to Asia and speak on white people getting privilege there, it doesn't really make sense to use the term minority.

“People of Color” is used outside of the States?

 

[whatscomplex]

“People of Color” is used outside of the States?

in debates referring to things that happen outside of the US.

like if I say darker people have it worse globally. That’s not really a minority thing, that’s a “poc” issue. So maybe with that in mind, maybe poc should be less about racism and more about colorism.

 

[Naruto]

How do you guys feel about Asians only being well received for their food and women? People don't seem interested in other aspects of Asian culture maybe besides anime and kpop

 

[whatscomplex]

The only industry I’d say I feel we’ve been excluded from is film. And that’s cause we haven’t even gotten a fair attempt at trying. But that’s changed a lot in 2019. Not just Crazy Rich, but Parasite was just nominated for multiple golden globes and is probably going to be nominated for multiple oscars.

But i feel like we’ve done pretty well in other places, especially given our lower pop.

 

[marikomorose]

in debates referring to things that happen outside of the US.

like if I say darker people have it worse globally. That’s not really a minority thing, that’s a “poc” issue. So maybe with that in mind, maybe poc should be less about racism and more about colorism.

colorism and texturism are offsprings of racism. racism is still the core issue.

How do you guys feel about Asians only being well received for their food and women? People don't seem interested in other aspects of Asian culture maybe besides anime and kpop

ha. this sounds similar to my gripes as a black american.

 

[wuchi01]

I feel like there needs to be a more common word that groups up East Asians and Southeast Asians.

I know it's how we use Asian mostly in this country, but in 2019, I always see some woke person challenging people if they use it that way cause they wanna be more inclusive of that term. Which is fine, but it seems impractical to type out E and SE Asian everytime if I wanna make a point related to those stereotypes/experiences.

Curious as to why you feel a “more common word” needs to be used i.e. “East Asians and Southeast Asians” together. Thought Frink85’s post with E, SE and S was good. In fact I’d be even more country specific depending on situation if appropriate.
Feel it’s a sign of respect to know and understand exactly where the person is from.

What “woke person” is going to credibly tell me my actions and opinions are suppose to be same as yours, anyone else here or whoever just because we have Asian heritage. Almost comes complete circle back to stereotyping.
No argument, just curious thought process.

 

[whatscomplex]

Curious as to why you feel a “more common word” needs to be used i.e. “East Asians and Southeast Asians” together. Thought Frink85’s post with E, SE and S was good. In fact I’d be even more country specific depending on situation if appropriate.
Feel it’s a sign of respect to know and understand exactly where the person is from.

What “woke person” is going to credibly tell me my actions and opinions are suppose to be same as yours, anyone else here or whoever just because we have Asian heritage. Almost comes complete circle back to stereotyping.
No argument, just curious thought process.

cause that’s how we talk about Asian in terms of racism. For example, what’s the point of this thread then? We’re using the term Asian to describe the things listed in the original post, but if it were Pakistani posters in here, the OP and 90% of the discussions would make no sense. So they are objectively Asian, but in practice they wouldn’t feel like this is a thread for them. They’d probably feel alienated. But it says in the title it’s for them. So to me, it’s weird that we don’t have a word to actually describe what we’re talking about. We have the vague concept in our head that Asian means this in the US, but at the same time it technically doesn’t. It means a lot more. There’s just some type of unsaid social contract about what we’re talking about when we say “Asian.” I feel like I see a lot of arguments resulting from this lately.

it’s kinda like whoever has the bigger presence in the country gets bullied out from the term.

so in the UK there’s racism against Asian immigrants, but there’s no material consequences of that for Asians as we know them in the US. So you’ll hear news stories about “Asian immigrants commit crime” and you hear some racist people going off about the Asians, but it would be inaccurate to feel like you’re being oppressed or stereotyped racially by those statements because you’re not. Idk it’s just weird imo. If the whole point of words is to express our point, Asian seems to fall pretty flat.

colorism and texturism are offsprings of racism. racism is still the core issue.

If that’s the argument then what’s wrong with poc? Since minorities can’t be used, there would have to be some type of word to explain white supremacy in more global contexts.

 

[frink85]

cause that’s how we talk about Asian in terms of racism. For example, what’s the point of this thread then? We’re using the term Asian to describe the things listed in the original post, but if it were Pakistani posters in here, the OP and 90% of the discussions would make no sense. So they are objectively Asian, but in practice they wouldn’t feel like this is a thread for them. They’d probably feel alienated. But it says in the title it’s for them. So to me, it’s weird that we don’t have a word to actually describe what we’re talking about. We have the vague concept in our head that Asian means this in the US, but at the same time it technically doesn’t. It means a lot more. There’s just some type of unsaid social contract about what we’re talking about when we say “Asian.” I feel like I see a lot of arguments resulting from this lately.

it’s kinda like whoever has the bigger presence in the country gets bullied out from the term.

so in the UK there’s racism against Asian immigrants, but there’s no material consequences of that for Asians as we know them in the US. So you’ll hear news stories about “Asian immigrants commit crime” and you hear some racist people going off about the Asians, but it would be inaccurate to feel like you’re being oppressed or stereotyped racially by those statements because you’re not. Idk it’s just weird imo. If the whole point of words is to express our point, Asian seems to fall pretty flat.



If that’s the argument then what’s wrong with poc? Since minorities can’t be used, there would have to be some type of word to explain white supremacy in more global contexts.

ahh ok I see what you were talking about in your first post. Yeah there’s a pretty hard divide from East Asian/southeast Asian and south Asians. The “default” is that East/southeast is “Asian” and Indians are from India paki are from Pakistan etc.

I’m not up on that region, but afaik there’s a lot of cultural/religious differences between south Asian countries. Aside from geography, is it even correct to group them together?

 

[sfc415]

Ok so, I'm half Indian and spent a large portion of my childhood-teenage years in South and Southeast Asia. Yes, there are differences but also many shared values, customs, traditions, religions, etc. especially with Southeast Asian countries like Indonesia, Malaysia, and Singapore, where much of the culture is originally from India. You'll see these in Laos, Thailand, and Cambodia as well to an extent. Let me know if you want me to go into specifics.

None of my Asian friends from Asia or educated Asian-American friends consider me to be non-Asian or separate me into a different group when talking about Asian-related topics, so it's odd to have people in this thread imply that "90% of the topics won't make sense" when I've actually lived in Asia and among other Asian Americans my entire life

Also, just FYI "Racism against Asians in the UK isn't the same as racism against Asians here" is false; Indians and Pakistanis make up most Asian immigrants there so you hear about those more, but East Asians get routinely mocked and abused there as well

If you guys want to turn this into an "East Asian-American Culture Thread" then change the title

 

[marikomorose]

"We’re using the term Asian to describe the things listed in the original post, but if it were Pakistani posters in here, the OP and 90% of the discussions would make no sense. So they are objectively Asian, but in practice they wouldn’t feel like this is a thread for them. They’d probably feel alienated."

This is why there's a black culture thread (black americans) & a african descendants (everyone of the diaspora).

If that’s the argument then what’s wrong with poc? Since minorities can’t be used, there would have to be some type of word to explain white supremacy in more global contexts.

"The idea of different groups of minorities working together to fight racism of all sorts is fantastic, but any effort that sees the struggles of all minorities as a single movement is actually harmful."

Op-Ed: The term ‘people of color’ erases black people. Let’s retire it

As a black woman, I seek out inclusive spaces because I lack them in my everyday life.

www.latimes.com

 

[tupac jordan]

I asked the smartest guy in our friend group (from a prestigious junior college) & he confirmed Indians & Pakistanis are not Asian.

 

[whatscomplex]

Ok so, I'm half Indian and spent a large portion of my childhood-teenage years in South and Southeast Asia. Yes, there are differences but also many shared values, customs, traditions, religions, etc. especially with Southeast Asian countries like Indonesia, Malaysia, and Singapore, where much of the culture is originally from India. You'll see these in Laos, Thailand, and Cambodia as well to an extent. Let me know if you want me to go into specifics.

None of my Asian friends from Asia or educated Asian-American friends consider me to be non-Asian or separate me into a different group when talking about Asian-related topics, so it's odd to have people in this thread imply that "90% of the topics won't make sense" when I've actually lived in Asia and among other Asian Americans my entire life

Also, just FYI "Racism against Asians in the UK isn't the same as racism against Asians here" is false; Indians and Pakistanis make up most Asian immigrants there so you hear about those more, but East Asians get routinely mocked and abused there as well

If you guys want to turn this into an "East Asian-American Culture Thread" then change the title

I mean it doesn’t really matter that much. Indians are factually Asian. I’m not arguing this is a E/SE Asian thread. I **** with Indians and there’s definitely a lot of crossover in religion, culture, and communities. But in terms of racism, is there? So in that sense there should be a word for me to describe what group I’m talking about since Asian is too broad and fluid of a term, but it gets used colloquially all the time anyway with an implied meaning of those type of Asians or those type of Asians and we just read between the lines to know who’s being talked about.

When there are those arguments about the term Asian, I do argue in favor of Indians or whoever since they’re factually Asian and also bc it’s not that deep and I don’t want people to feel excluded. Im just saying something is lacking in the vocabulary so ppl can accurately express what they’re talking about and we make up for it by implying and interpreting things on the fly. I’m just saying some academic should make a word up.

 

[frink85]

I asked the smartest guy in our friend group (from a prestigious junior college) & he confirmed Indians & Pakistanis are not Asian.

the countries are geographically in Asia Lol

but other than that yeah there’s not a lot of shared traits

edit: the Middle East is technically in Asia, surprised there isn’t a movement (that I’ve heard of) to recognize another continent of middle eastern nations

 

[sfc415]

I asked the smartest guy in our friend group (from a prestigious junior college) & he confirmed Indians & Pakistanis are not Asian.

Must be awful to have such low standards of friends, no wonder he made such an uninformed comment.

the countries are geographically in Asia Lol

but other than that yeah there’s not a lot of shared traits

What type of "shared traits" are you referring to? If you're saying there aren't a lot of "shared traits" when half the countries nearby share common ancestors, religion, customs/traditions/values, food, and/or language, then I don't know what else to tell you.

I'll be sure to let all my Asian/Asian American friends and family know that I'm not one of them anymore because I'm not East Asian-American enough for this thread

 

[wayniac211]

I asked the smartest guy in our friend group (from a prestigious junior college) & he confirmed Indians & Pakistanis are not Asian.

Of course their not Asian, their Indian and Pakistani

 

[frink85]

Must be awful to have such low standards of friends, no wonder he made such an uninformed comment.



What type of "shared traits" are you referring to? If you're saying there aren't a lot of "shared traits" when half the countries nearby share common ancestors, religion, customs/traditions/values, food, and/or language, then I don't know what else to tell you.

I'll be sure to let all my Asian/Asian American friends and family know that I'm not one of them anymore because I'm not East Asian-American enough for this thread

I’m talking in the present there’s a lot of cultural/religious/societal differences. Yeah the roots spring from the same place I get that. Across Asia you have Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, Catholicism, Hinduism, and more. Some countries are imperial, some are democratic, some are communist.

I wouldn’t dare question your or anyone else’s “asian-ness” I just wanted to point out the variance of Asian countries and how his friend was mistaken and Asia isn’t just east Asia.

 

[shogun]

The British do get it right when they call indians and pakistanis, Asians. Always thought it was weird that they separated themselves from the rest of us.

 

[marikomorose]

The British do get it right when they call indians and pakistanis, Asians.

do you know why they're consider the asians over in europe, canada, etc and e/se asians are considered the asians in the u.s.?

 

[shogun]

Probably cuz Americans are dumber. But for real, i’ve never heard my Indian friends refer to themselves as Asian. They just call themselves Indian and that’s it. I always found it odd.