Black Culture Discussion Thread

[finessence]

That was then. We are talking about now. Plenty of artists out here making great music, but they rather push certain other types of music.

Those songs we’re relevant then, and now. Stop blaming the label execs. Blame the fans and consumers. The consumers don’t even want uplifting music, that’s the point we’ve been trying to make

The average 18-35 year old parent is not playing that type of music for their kid…. They’ll play them the “baby shark” song, but that’s as far as they’ll go…. But conscious hip hop or R&B or blues, jazz or gospel ? Nah, they aren’t playing it for their kids….

 

[Present]

Yeah, it definitely warps the mind and reality.




Is music the core cause of the societal woes of the underprivileged black youth? No, but it definitely can add to it. Imagine if a song called love your black brother is pushed through the airwaves, all through social media and youtube as much as some pop your ***** and pull up on a opp track?

I'm simply stating that music can influence individuals. If you're playing music talking about shoot 'em up, don't be surprised when some of its major consumers (naive impressionable youth from the hood) whose brains and moral compass aren't fully developed start to emulate what they have heard. And this is the type of music that's being heavily pushed by these media companies and record labels.


Kung Fu did add to the Chinese image. When the British were pumping china with opium and British tourists were going in and out of China, they use to pull up on random Chinese men and basically demand they demonstrate Kung Fu fully expecting them all to know it.

Agreed.

Music can influence human beings emotionally.

That isn't the issue here.

The issue is Black folks trying to appeal to "British Tourists" with all this "We" business

Leave those drill rappers alone.

Why is what they got going on any of our business?

Imagine going up to a random Scottish person expecting them to have to account for the beef between the Lyons & the Daniels

 

[tomdiginson]

… I mentioned drugs and alcohol because they have the same effect that y’all blame music of having, over youth. But hey, everyone seems to turn a blind eye towards those factors.

Drugs and alcohol are as American as apple pie. They go hand in hand. They’re basically given a pass… but hey, rap is terrible.

Who's giving drugs and alcohol a pass? We're simply talking about music. One was the topic at hand and you introduced another.

Those songs we’re relevant then, and now. Stop blaming the label execs. Blame the fans and consumers. The consumers don’t even want uplifting music, that’s the point we’ve been trying to make

The average 18-35 year old parent is not playing that type of music for their kid…. They’ll play them a “baby shark” song…. But conscious hip hop or R&B or blues, jazz or gospel ? Nah, they aren’t playing it for their kids….

I didn't say that they weren't relevant. I said they were from the past. If the child isn't hearing said music being played, how will they know it even existed? And when the outlets that play said music only play certain kinds of music, which the child consumes, how can we be surprised when the youth become so violent?

Parents are at work while their children are in school hearing certain kinds of music being played. Do you think a 40-year-old who's working knows anything about some cat talking about spin and twirl? I was in the office the other day and was staring out the window in the lunch space. The window was slightly ajar and someone was blaring out some drill music from their vehicle. A lady was standing with her kids by the train station and when the boy heard the music he started doing the drill dances and rapping along to the lyrics. The mom slapped him in order to stop him. Now, you may look at it and think, it's just music and a kid dancing, but if you hear the lyrics, you're like, how the hell does this kid (who appears to be no more than 8 or 9 years old) know this song and able to dance and rap to it? It can be a myriad of reasons as to how he heard the song, but it isn't always "the parents".

 

[tomdiginson]

Agreed.

Music can influence human beings emotionally.

That isn't the issue here.

The issue is Black folks trying to appeal to "British Tourists" with all this "We" business

Leave those drill rappers alone.

Why is what they got going on any of our business?

Imagine going up to a random Scottish person expecting them to have to account for the beef between the Lyons & the Daniels

Yeah, but the beef between Lyons and Daniels isn't actively being pushed into the youth's face from a number of sources. Cats who aren't in hoods and are several states away know about beefs between this person and that person simply cause of the music.

 

[Present]

Yeah, but the beef between Lyons and Daniels isn't actively being pushed into the youth's face.

Right.

Its available to everyone...not just inner city Black youth.

The music aint the issue.

Its the environment Fam.

Who is Hip Hop’s Biggest Ethnic Supporter?

So now that we understand how and why the 80% myth came about lets look at the results of an actual study that was done. In January 2003 Jesse Jackson and his Rainbow Push organization held their 6th Annual Wall Street project conference. In the past Jackson had not put together panels focusing on the entertainment industry and its impact on Wall Street, but that year he did. He put together is memorable standing room only panel which included some very distinguished guests including; former Vibe Magazine CEO Keith Clinkscales of Vanguarde Media, Carol H Williams of Carol H Williams Advertising, Thomas Burrell of Burrell Communications, Samuel Chisholm of the Chisholm Group, James L Winston of the National Association of Black Owned Broadcasters and Daisy Exposito-Ulla of the Bravo Group

The Bravo Group is part of the powerful Young and Rubicam company is considered the third largest multicultural agency in the US. The panel discussion talked about market share and leveraging dollars. During the discussion Daisy Exposito Ulla was making her remarks and while it wasn’t the main focus she mentioned that her company had done a study and come to find that the Latinos are the biggest purchasers of Rap music. They buy more rap music than both African Americans and whites.

Because this wasn’t a Hip Hop specific panel her remarks were made in the context of talking about some other issues, what she was not met with any big gasp from the audience or anything like that. But for me I took special note as she continued her presentation, because it basically coincided with the push in broadcast media to target Latinos as a primary audience. http://www.daveyd.com/articlelainsupport.html

Yes, Hip Hop is large and everybody enjoys it. And yes, a large part of that audience are white folks. But 80%? No way. Unfortunately white Hip Hop fans were used to validate to skittish advertisers and even venue owners that Hip Hop is safe and non threatening. To me its no different and just as bad as those programmers and industry experts who hawk Black gangsterism and stereotypes and make it appear as if its a vital part of Black culture and a true representation of Hip Hop.

Is Hip Hop’s Audience Really 80% White? | Hip-Hop and Politics

Is Hip Hop’s Audience Really 80% White? By Davey D original article-July 15, 2006 In recent days a debate has ensued on my website daveyd.com, around one of Hip Hop’s biggest myths. It started in 1991 when Newsweek Magazine did a cover story on Gangsta Rap and in their article they put out an...

hiphopandpolitics.com

 

[finessence]

I didn't say that they weren't relevant. I said they were from the past. If the child isn't hearing said music being played, how will they know it even existed? And when the outlets that play said music only play certain kinds of music, which the child consumes, how can we be surprised when the youth become so violent?

Parents are at work while their children are in school hearing certain kinds of music being played. Do you think a 40-year-old who's working knows anything about some cat talking about spin and twirl? I was in the office the other day and was staring out the window in the lunch space. The window was slightly ajar and someone was blaring out some drill music from their vehicle. A lady was standing with her kids by the train station and when the boy heard the music he started doing the drill dances and rapping along to the lyrics. The mom slapped him in order to stop him. Now, you may look at it and think, it's just music and a kid dancing, but if you hear the lyrics, you're like, how the hell does this kid (who appears to be no more than 8 or 9 years old) know this song and able to dance and rap to it? It can be a myriad of reasons as to how he heard the song, but it isn't always "the parents".

Your parents and grandparents never played music around you? Your uncles? Y’all never had family functions?

So now, parents don’t play music around their kids?

Kids only consume music that’s played by their peers?

Parents in 2022 aren’t playing music for their kids?

So, parents don’t know what music or media their kids intake, but they somehow have time to do everything else as a parent? Clothe their kids, feed them, take them to practice if they play sports, drop them off, interact with them at HOME?

That’s the biggest excuse I’ve EVER heard

 

[finessence]

tomdiginson when parents are driving in the car with their kids… what songs are they playing??

I’m curious.

 

[tomdiginson]

Your parents and grandparents never played music around you? Your uncles? Y’all never had family functions?

So now, parents don’t play music around their kids?

Kids only consume music that’s played by their peers?

Parents in 2022 aren’t playing music for their kids?

So, parents don’t know what music or media their kids intake, but they somehow have time to do everything else as a parent? Clothe their kids, feed them, take them to practice if they play sports, drop them off, interact with them at HOME?

That’s the biggest excuse I’ve EVER heard

How is it that everyone else understands what I posted, but you? Please re-read the post. Do I have to spell out it out for you? I didn't say parents aren't playing music for their children. My parents weren't playing Camron, Jay Z, etc, but I still heard it though. Keep up with the conversation my guy.

 

[finessence]

How is it that everyone else understands what I posted, but you? Please re-read the post. Do I have to spell out it out for you? I didn't say parents aren't playing music for their children. My parents weren't playing Camron, Jay Z, etc, but I still heard it though. Keep up with the conversation my guy.

This is between you and I, not anyone else. You’re wrong. Rap isn’t the only style of black music that exists. That’s my point.

Y’all love blaming everyone except the parents.

Like I said, the consumers don’t even want conscious music. They want the negative. They want the violent, turn up music. Blame the consumers. Stop playing the blame game

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

The music aint the issue.

Its the environment Fam.

How can one be an issue but not the other?

 

[tomdiginson]

This is between you and I, not anyone else. You’re wrong. Rap isn’t the only style of black music that exists. That’s my point.

Y’all love blaming everyone except the parents.

Like I said, the consumers don’t even want conscious music. They want the negative. They want the violent, turn up music. Blame the consumers. Stop playing the blame game

Bro, your arguments are all over the place. I didn't say rap was the only style of black music. Then you're talking broadly as if Rap as a genre only produces "violent " music. When clearly thay isn't the truth. You're saying to blame the parents, but they are not around the child 24/7. Can the parents be at fault? Absolutely, but that isn't the topic we're discussing. To remind you, we're discussing does Vioent Rap music influence people into committing certain acts.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Those songs we’re relevant then, and now. Stop blaming the label execs. Blame the fans and consumers. The consumers don’t even want uplifting music, that’s the point we’ve been trying to make

The average 18-35 year old parent is not playing that type of music for their kid…. They’ll play them the “baby shark” song, but that’s as far as they’ll go…. But conscious hip hop or R&B or blues, jazz or gospel ? Nah, they aren’t playing it for their kids….

In a round about way, I've always wonder if the powers that be drive us to want what they WANT us to want vs. us actually organically selecting what we want.

That's not just with music but with

The Illusion of choice if you will.

 

[Present]

How can one be an issue but not the other?

Because they are different things.

Which would you rather repair first? The environment or the music that comes out of the environment?

My parents weren't playing Camron, Jay Z, etc, but I still heard it though.

See what he said?

Even though he heard it elsewhere, he knew it was incompatible with his home environment.

Tomdiginson - Please correct me if I'm wrong on that.

The operative word in that sentence was "parents" IMHO.

Same thing Finessence said:

Y’all love blaming everyone except the parents.

No group of humans are monolithic.

Good and bad parents.

Good and bad kids.

People just people Fam.

Drill music is an issue for folks involved in drill music.

Trap music was an issue for folks involved in trap music.

Gangsta rap was an issue for folks involved in Gangsta rap.

Blaxploitation movies were an issue for folks....

Minstrel shows...you get the point.

IJS what that gotta do with "Black Image" when we are so much more?

Why are we the only ones that need to be held to our lowest common denominator?

Why are folks so worried about the songs that crabs sing from the bottom of the barrel?

Same folks aint even thinking about who made the barrel and put the crabs there or why some of them seem to enjoy it.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

As I've respectfully said to deuce king in the past, the, "Blame the parents" approach isn't that simple.

The parents didn't chose the life they live either.

Not trying to make excuses but sometimes folks are so far deep into THAT lifestyle that they aren't even aware of what they aren't doing.

Yes, I know there are others from the SAME environment that made it out and made a way for their families but getting out of THAT world is a beast.

Some folks just don't know how to parent.

 

[Present]

As I've respectfully said to deuce king in the past, the, "Blame the parents" approach isn't that simple.

The parents didn't chose the life they live either.

Not trying to make excuses but sometimes folks are so far deep into THAT lifestyle that they aren't even aware of what they aren't doing.

Yes, I know there are others from the SAME environment that made it out and made a way for their families but getting out of THAT world is a beast.

Some folks just don't know how to parent.

Blame ≠ Accountability

Dated a single mother who played all kinds of ratchet music with her young daughters in the back seat.

Told her to turn it off because its sending the wrong message.

"These aint your kids so mind your business"

She was absolutely right.

Put on my headphones and went to sleep.

Was I "blaming" her or was I holding her accountable for the music she chose to expose to her own young daughters?

Note:

She is a Georgetown Law graduate, attorney for the Marines, and lives in a $850K home. Straight out the suburbs. Her Dad is a successful business man and her Mom is a Nurse. Genuine Cosby kid.

She aint never spent one day living in the hood in her entire life.

Makes well over 100K.

None of that stopped her from playing ratchet music in front of her kids despite my objections.

 

[Mark Antony]

Some black people really hate black people, there is no other way around it.

This. If they really did love their people,their focus wouldn't just be punitive, reactive measures to negative outcomes.

 

[Raji Lowenthal]

As I've respectfully said to deuce king in the past, the, "Blame the parents" approach isn't that simple.

The parents didn't chose the life they live either.

Not trying to make excuses but sometimes folks are so far deep into THAT lifestyle that they aren't even aware of what they aren't doing.

Yes, I know there are others from the SAME environment that made it out and made a way for their families but getting out of THAT world is a beast.

Some folks just don't know how to parent.

There was a 17 yr old recently involved with a robbery and murder and the parent drove the get away car smh.

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

Because they are different things.

Which would you rather repair first? The environment or the music that comes out of the environment?

So are you acknowleding that both issues need to be repaired? Going back to the crack analogy, selling on the corner isn't an issue but the government distributing to the neighborhood is? Both issues need to be addressed. They go hand in hand and are too intertwined to say they are different things

 

[DCAllAfrican]

There was a 17 yr old recently involved with a robbery and murder and the parent drove the get away car smh.

Well we know that 17 year old never stood a chance if he had a parent that pulled a stunt like that.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Blame ≠ Accountability

Dated a single mother who played all kinds of ratchet music with her young daughters in the back seat.

Told her to turn it off because its sending the wrong message.

"These aint your kids so mind your business"

She was absolutely right.

Put on my headphones and went to sleep.

Note: She is a Georgetown Law graduate, attorney for the Marines, and lives in a $850K home.

And then you get into those, "Respectability Politics" conversations when it comes to certain topics.

I don't know what is/isn't allowed to be talked about to be honest.

I'm just saying we don't select our parents, temperament, tendency to lead/follow, or any of those vital cogs in what it takes to make a "model citizen."

I say all that to say EYE have a hard time faulting anyone for not turning out on the winning side of life because the cards are stacked up against most of us.

I know my thoughts might be all over the place but I have these convos with black co-workers daily when looking at certain black students and sometimes the future just looks SUPER bleek.

 

[layziegunts]

This. If they really did love their people,their focus wouldn't just be punitive, reactive measures to negative outcomes.

and they focus on the lowest common denominator and try to paid the whole race like that. One dude I use to be cool with every single morning would message me a shooting that took place in Brooklyn. EVERY MORNING for months, and everyday its the same old "OMG why is is that everyday there is a black person shooting another person, what is wrong with our race". Everyday I have to react the same way "well its 10 million people in the city, someone is bound to be shot, you cant stop crime from happening lol"

Be wary of those who focus on the bad in our community and never the good.

 

[Present]

So are you acknowleding that both issues need to be repaired? Going back to the crack analogy, selling on the corner isn't an issue but the government distributing to the neighborhood is? Both issues need to be addressed. They go hand in hand and are too intertwined to say they are different things

Nah I'm a traditional Man by nature so my mind works in a linear fashion.

I tend to problem solve based on prioritization to maximize positive returns for my efforts.

All I can control is my own environment so I tend to mind my own business.

I cant control what the Government does but I can stay off the crack.

I cant control what record execs do but I can turn off the radio.

Etc. etc.

 

[Present]

And then you get into those, "Respectability Politics" conversations when it comes to certain topics.

I don't know what is/isn't allowed to be talked about to be honest.

I'm just saying we don't select our parents, temperament, tendency to lead/follow, or any of those vital cogs in what it takes to make a "model citizen."

I say all that to say EYE have a hard time faulting anyone for not turning out on the winning side of life because the cards are stacked up against most of us.

I know my thoughts might be all over the place but I have these convos with black co-workers daily when looking at certain black students and sometimes the future just looks SUPER bleek.

For me it starts with the refusal to see myself through someone else's eyes.

I know I am a victim of identity theft.

Race is a Social Construct.

Reasoning:

White folks need Race to exist in order to be White - so they created Black folks.

I already existed way before I was called Black but that identity was stolen - along with my very humanity.

If all the other races in the USA disappeared would White folks still be White?

I guarantee you Germans don't refer to themselves as "White" and they started WWII

Anyway.

I refuse to have my identity / humanity stolen again with all this "We" stuff.

She was right.

Those aint my kids!

 

[tomdiginson]

Because they are different things.

Which would you rather repair first? The environment or the music that comes out of the environment?



See what he said?

Even though he heard it elsewhere, he knew it was incompatible with his home environment.

Tomdiginson - Please correct me if I'm wrong on that.

The operative word in that sentence was "parents" IMHO.

Same thing Finessence said:



No group of humans are monolithic.

Good and bad parents.

Good and bad kids.

People just people Fam.

Drill music is an issue for folks involved in drill music.

Trap music was an issue for folks involved in trap music.

Gangsta rap was an issue for folks involved in Gangsta rap.

Blaxploitation movies were an issue for folks....

Minstrel shows...you get the point.

IJS what that gotta do with "Black Image" when we are so much more?

Why are we the only ones that need to be held to our lowest common denominator?

Why are folks so worried about the songs that crabs sing from the bottom of the barrel?

Same folks aint even thinking about who made the barrel and put the crabs there or why some of them seem to enjoy it.

Don't save him

Yes, but no parent can 100% control their children and won't be around them 24/7 to monitor their behavior and actions. No one is denying the environment doesn't play a role in how someone is brought up. However, there are items that can affect behavior and actions too. This is why we are discussing listening to excessive amounts of violent music which is the original topic.

They may not be my kids, but I still want the best for them. I may no longer be amongst them, but I still want the best for them.

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

Nah I'm a traditional Man by nature so my mind works in a linear fashion.

I tend to problem solve based on prioritization to maximize positive returns for my efforts.

All I can control is my own environment so I tend to mind my own business.

I cant control what the Government does but I can stay off the crack.

I cant control what record execs do but I can turn off the radio.

Etc. etc.

But you just said the environment is the issue. So what is your issue with the environment when you say that is something you can control?