Black Culture Discussion Thread

[gry60]

They used a black nurse to gain trust in the black community during the Tuskegee experiments. It's some black folks that will sign to be used, unfortunately.

The thing is, a nurse doesn't need to know how a public health experiment is designed to do her job. A public health expert will, and that's not the kind of career Black folks had access to in the 50s and 60s. The way these companies operate today vs back then isn't the same.

If people do or don't want to get that vax that's their personal choice but we know for a fact it's rare for the US government to give black people anything that helps us.

I've asked the same question for three years without a convincing answer, and I'll try again: what incentive does a government with an aging population have to hurt its entire population?

 

[tomdiginson]

They used a black nurse to gain trust in the black community during the Tuskegee experiments. It's some black folks that will sign to be used, unfortunately.

If people do or don't want to get that vax that's their personal choice but we know for a fact it's rare for the US government to give black people anything that helps us. Whether medically, economics, the rights we have (which they ignore). The things we have gotten was damn near taken by rioting and rising up.

They had a black doctor or researcher on TV during the pandemic who was pushing the vaccine only for her twitter to be leaked where she had post basically stating her dislike for her own people.

 

[trynafeelmink]

That wasn't about Vaccines at all actually (although that can fit in that as well)

That was towards just general health, mental health, day to day health suggestions & diagnoses. people pick & choose when institutions are fundamentally racist/biased/manipulative.

 

[deusavertat]

Science is not a belief system. It's meant to verify our assumptions and use new knowledge to check our currently held theories. We didn't throw away classical physics when we found out the relationship between mass and gravity didn't apply to photons; we established boundaries around the two domains of study. When we invented microscopes and observed nature beyond the naked eye, we verified the assumptions we had about our old models of microbiology, we kept what was observed as valid, discarded what was shown to be invalid, and came up with better models.


He's talking about COVID and the vaccines.

The thing he may not realize is that a lot more of us are working in these companies, in positions that allow us to make decisions on how those companies conduct their business. We actually get to see how the sausage gets made, and when **** that's not supposed to happen is happening, we sound the alarm.

See, for example, how Black AI researchers in the US warned about the deficiencies of facial recognition software early, which made communities more apprehensive about the use of such tools in law enforcement. If more Black folks worked for a lot of these medical companies way earlier than the 90s, the Tuskegee experiment may have been nipped in the bud in the early stages of the process.

I dont listen to science skeptics until they have exhibited a certain level of proficiency in what they are skeptical about. I can go around being skeptical about everything scientific all day including cellphones, internet data, antibiotics but until I can bring forth equally scientifically sound evidence to back my claims, Im basically in the same boat as the white tin foil wearing antivaxx rednecks. Fight scientific racism with sophisticated facts based on a level of expertise that rivals those in the institutions you are challenging.

Nothing is stopping these people from conducting high level epidemiological research....except the fact that they dont have the basic knowledge to do so. Barbershop scientists.

 

[deusavertat]

That wasn't about Vaccines at all actually (although that can fit in that as well)

That was towards just general health, mental health, day to day health suggestions & diagnoses. people pick & choose when institutions are fundamentally racist/biased/manipulative.

They also pick and choose when to trust those institutions. Vaccines nah. But I got shot, so take me to the hospital, pump me full of 100 other meds and take me to the OR where Im most vulnerable.

 

[gry60]

They had a black doctor or researcher on TV during the pandemic who was pushing the vaccine only for her twitter to be leaked where she had post basically stating her dislike for her own people.

I somehow missed that.

How is this anecdote representative of Black people in science?

Was she involved in the development/testing of the vaccine, or was she just giving her assessment based on the published results of the tests?

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

Scientific misconduct is a thing

 

[finessence]

They also pick and choose when to trust those institutions. Vaccines nah. But I got shot, so take me to the hospital, pump me full of 100 other meds and take me to the OR where Im most vulnerable.

…. Smoke a joint that some dude licked and pass it around… unprotected sex… root canal…. BBL/cosmetic surgery….

People are idiots man. Without modern medicine a lot of stuff wouldn’t be possible but people overlook it.

Facebook/IG is full of conspiracy theorist who were afraid to read out loud in class or went to school with just a pencil and single folder, but then I remember, people are sheep

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

Scientists and philosophers believed the earth was flat for hundreds of years. A lot of things you learned in science class aren't even considered to be true anymore. It's strange to me when people speak as if science shouldn't be questioned or like scientists can't be compromised the same way politicians can

 

[gry60]

Scientific misconduct is a thing

Who said it wasn't?
How would I make the statements below if I were unaware of scientific misconduct?

The thing he may not realize is that a lot more of us are working in these companies, in positions that allow us to make decisions on how those companies conduct their business. We actually get to see how the sausage gets made, and when **** that's not supposed to happen is happening, we sound the alarm.

See, for example, how Black AI researchers in the US warned about the deficiencies of facial recognition software early, which made communities more apprehensive about the use of such tools in law enforcement.

I originally commented because often, there's this misconception about pharmaceutical companies having the ability to do anything they want, with the implications being that Black people who use/promote their products are either ignorant of their history of misconduct or complicit in it.

The reality is, all companies are beholden to standards, and the standards they were following back then didn't protect us because we were kept out of the R&D departments and out of the agencies that regulate their conduct and refine those standards. This is no longer the case: today's standards are a lot more comprehensive in assessing how people of different backgrounds will be impacted by new medicine/procedures/trials compared to the 60s. Furthermore, it is much easier today to alert the public and the relevant authorities when significant deficiencies are found but ignored by the company higher-ups.

None of this means that we live in harmony with big pharma, and that they can't push harmful products.

It's strange to me when people speak as if science shouldn't be questioned

The scientific method is an exercise in constant self-examination.

Think about how we went from the flat earth model to the round earth model. Think about how we went from alchemy to chemistry. Scientists question themselves all the time. The issue is, some folks bring no evidence or weak evidence to support their skepticism, and they get mad when they get laughed out the room.

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

It's strange to me when people speak as if science shouldn't be questioned or like scientists can't be compromised the same way politicians can

 

[tomdiginson]

I somehow missed that.

How is this anecdote representative of Black people in science?

Was she involved in the development/testing of the vaccine, or was she just giving her assessment based on the published results of the tests?

I don't recall, however, as mentioned there is misconduct and as long as there are people involved, their should always be concern when it comes to findings and research.

If I fund researchers for their own personal projects, they can find the results that I'm looking for.

 

[finessence]

Scientists and philosophers believed the earth was flat for hundreds of years. A lot of things you learned in science class aren't even considered to be true anymore. It's strange to me when people speak as if science shouldn't be questioned or like scientists can't be compromised the same way politicians can

Just overlook the millionsssss of proven scientific facts though

No one said it was perfect.

Drink alcohol for a long period of time, do drugs for a long period of time and see what it does to your body.

Hell if it wasn’t for SCIENCE you wouldn’t even be using that cellular device to use this very Niketalk message board.

No science, no Niketalk, NO IPHONE, No Twitter, etc. NO ELECTRICITY.

No one said science is fool proof

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

Just overlook the millionsssss of proven scientific facts though

No one said it was perfect.

How am I overlooking that. There's no such thing as a scientific fact anyway

 

[deusavertat]

Scientists and philosophers believed the earth was flat for hundreds of years. A lot of things you learned in science class aren't even considered to be true anymore. It's strange to me when people speak as if science shouldn't be questioned or like scientists can't be compromised the same way politicians can

The only thing better than science is better science. The very culture of science is questioning other scientists. The problem is laymen think they can walk into the room with no knowledge base and engage in these debates. Imagine the janitor at a hospital showing up to a peer review conference for surgeons.

We have scientific research that continues to build on and yes in many cases refute established principles. This has to still be approached using the scientific method, not some idiot rambling about what he watched on youtube without actually putting in the work to provide evidence. Scientists can be compromised on a practical level but the disciplined approach to science, best knowledge and best practice has no political or social idiology. You have a hypothesis, collect data, present it.

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

This has to still be approached using the scientific method, not some idiot rambling about what he watched on youtube without actually putting in the work to provide evidence.

That's not really what I'm talking about. There's been plenty of instances where valid research was discarded or ridiculed either because of dogma, groupthink or political motivations

 

[finessence]

It's strange to me when people speak as if science shouldn't be questioned or like scientists can't be compromised the same way politicians can

None of us have said it shouldn’t be questioned. Again, break your arm then go question science when you’re in excruciating pain… you’ll be in the ER faster than a cheetah fart.

You wouldn’t be able to do a 3rd of things you enjoy in life, without scientific discovery

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

None of us have said it shouldn’t be questioned. Again, break your arm then go question science when you’re in excruciating pain… you’ll be in the ER faster than a cheetah fart.

You wouldn’t be able to do a 3rd of things you enjoy in life, without scientific discovery

Bruh you're just rambling. I'm not talking about anything you're talking about. Believing that science should be questioned is not the same as not believing in science

 

[deusavertat]

That's not really what I'm talking about. There's been plenty of instances where valid research was discarded or ridiculed either because of dogma, groupthink or political motivations

Give examples.

 

[deusavertat]

The antivaxx spreadneck people actually have a political voice and followers with economic means. They need to stop being lazy and present data.

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

How about taking my comments at face value instead of whatever predetermined argument you're eager to make. Yall don't even disagree with what I actually said

 

[deusavertat]

How about taking my comments at face value

Here lies the problem.

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

Science is true even when scientists say it isn't. The earth was round even when scientists said it wasn't. There are theories that the universe is flat so maybe one day it will be 'proven' that the earth is flat once again. I'm a fan of science but science is not definitive. There's numerous examples of things that were once considered safe then later determined to be harmful. If you're not one of those 'don't question the science' people then don't holler

 

[trynafeelmink]

Scientists and philosophers believed the earth was flat for hundreds of years. A lot of things you learned in science class aren't even considered to be true anymore. It's strange to me when people speak as if science shouldn't be questioned or like scientists can't be compromised the same way politicians can

It's really that simple of a concept bro, IDK how this turned into not believing in modern medicine/science

When there's a genuine history of hatred & destruction of a certain race it might be beneficial to look at all angles & why they may or may not be skewed a certain way.

 

[tr1ll]

That's not really what I'm talking about. There's been plenty of instances where valid research was discarded or ridiculed either because of dogma, groupthink or political motivations

There has also been instances where valid research has been discarded because further research proved the previous conclusion to be incorrect. My thing with "science", as people put it, is they look at it as definitive and finite when its ever evolving. Scientist or "Experts" say this, and people will speak of it as gospel just to be 10 years down the road, "Oh well actually.." We do not have all the answers. Its ok to question. Thats what science is essentially.