Dave Chappelle Netflix Specials

[RustyShackleford]

Kids accept other kids for the most part. It’s the parents you have to really worry about.

This might be true of elementary school kids, but once kids are in High School, their parents and smaller peer groups (whose other members are having the same thing done to them) have already decided what kind of person a student will be.

And if they filled their heads with ****tiness, they are gonna display that ****tiness

 

[mplsdunk]

Yeah that’s happens. Kids can also tell when their parents are insane and just hide it from their parents.

My daughter is gay. None of her friends care, she’s got all the same friends from middle school and she’s in hs now. They just hide it from a couple of the crazy parents. They know who is cool and who isn’t.

My daughter also doesn’t kick it with bigots nor would I let her.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Kids accept other kids for the most part. It’s the parents you have to really worry about.

Yea, I can see that.

There is a pair a trans-twins in one of my classes that haven't told their mother they identify as dudes yet. But in their defense they have switched their identities/pronouns a few times this year so maybe that plays into their reasoning.

 

[mplsdunk]

I think some kids just don’t want to field a million questions by their parents and old people too.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

My thought on this:

-The first graph shows that the phenomena have be happening across the board. And from where the data started on LGBT group it is a 2.6 difference between the increase and the LGBTQ category and the entire sample. You didn't link to the study, so I don't know the margin of error, but 3 is generally seen as a pretty love one for things like these. So it could be the difference between the two groups could be statistically insignificant. This would lead the only takeaway being that all high school students are feeling more unhappy.

-In fact, women seem to have the highest increase from the LGBTQ starting point. A lot of positive things have happened with women's rights during that time

-LGBT category is a broad category so we don't know how it is broken out. Given the sample, what could be driving this might be the feelings of transgender kids or just homosexual kids. And I would think locations matter. Being gay in affluent blue suburbs and urban areas is probably different than doing that is suburban Utad and rural America. Not saying this to hand wave, just that things matter generally.

-I guess the second part is supposed to say that given all this happening, you would expect a different outcome. But High school students have a very short reference point for progress than an adult.

If I would guess, social media has a big role to play. That while it can magnify good things, it also does the same with negative things. So LGBT kids might be getting exposed to a disproportionately high amount of hostility online relative to the general public. Also, they are in high school, social media makes cyberbullying much easier. So yeah, they have it easier as far as how bad previous generations had it on the civil rights front. I would agree, but there are things much different than the world Gen-Xers, most millennials, grew up in; the media students consumer. That could play a part.

Like I said, the shift among girls seems to be higher too (again could not be in reality). Women have had some high-profile culture wins over this period as well, and they still feel ****ty. So this lack of uniqueness makes me less convinced that we should see a different outcome with the LGBT group.

I mean just guess here, but if someone said that the growing hostilities toward LGBT kids in some areas of society is landing harder on kids than the progress made in other areas. On aggregate society is progressing, but people feel worst being the realities of a high school kid are unique.

A major thing is Behavioral Econ is about this. That is what is salient to people motivates their feelings and behaviors even though rationally you would expect a different outcome.

all interesting thoughts, it's all very complicated.


looking at the difference between lgbt identified who engage in homosexual activity, and lgtbt identified who don't

I have a theory that modern gender ideology has mostly worked to create
another personal insecurity for girls especially to have to manage.

by substituting something material like natal sex for this subjective notion of "gender identity"
you've created another metric for young people to judge themselves.

a metric that is illusory, and ill defined.
it's almost like a new even more impossible beaty standard

I find it really hard to believe that a young girl who is gender non conforming and going through puberty,
(but doesn't have gender dysphoria)

that it is helpful to instill the notion "maybe you aren't actually a girl?"
and that the only way to know is go on some ill defined internal struggle to define your "gender identity"

im no a sociologist but this strikes me as a bad idea
and low key reifies sex based stereotypes

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Yea, I can see that.

There is a pair a trans-twins in one of my classes that haven't told their mother they identify as dudes yet. But in their defense they have switched their identities/pronouns a few times this year so maybe that plays into their reasoning.

so the teachers go along with this and don't tell the parents?

seems totally inappropriate
and is the kind of story built for fox news segment to foment an anti trans backlash.

 

[tr1ll]

How do you inform the parents without sounding transphobic? “You know yo child out here claiming to be a man??”

 

[mplsdunk]

Why is it the teachers job to inform parents?

Why is it even an issue? Because it’s not the social norm? Live and let live. They aren’t hurting anyone.

 

[1995]

Why is it the teachers job to inform parents?

Why is it even an issue? Because it’s not the social norm? Live and let live. They aren’t hurting anyone.

Not to mention that parents are typically the hardest people for LGBTQ people to come out to

Outing them like that would be cruel

 

[p0tat0 5alad]

Don’t out kids anyone but especially kids

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Why is it the teachers job to inform parents?

Why is it even an issue? Because it’s not the social norm? Live and let live. They aren’t hurting anyone.

uhm...it's their children.

we aren't talking about something told to a therapist in private.
this is seemingly the class, administrators and teachers of this all conspiring to keep an important piece of information away from their parents.

like an NTer knows but the parents don't? that doesn't seem odd to you?

 

[Mark Antony]

Something like that is absolutely not a teacher's place.

 

[Mark Antony]

uhm...it's their children.

we aren't talking about something told to a therapist in private.
this is seemingly the class, administrators and teachers of this all conspiring to keep an important piece of information away from their parents.

like an NTer knows but the parents don't? that doesn't seem odd to you?

Are you leading into something? This seems like something you would obviously know is wrong.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Man said out the kid to their parents…yikes

so if the school teachers, and principles decided to change your childs name and pronouns without telling you.

you're just cool with that?
all good, mrs. baxter in room 12 can make that decision without your consent?

 

[p0tat0 5alad]

I changed my post because I didn’t want to misrepresent your wording. But yeah if my kid doesn’t feel comfortable coming out to me then that is my problem, not the people they actually come out to.

 

[WASHED KING]

How do you inform the parents without sounding transphobic? “You know yo child out here claiming to be a man??”

I send a Google form out every year to my students at the beginning of the year.

Asking for their preferred name and pronouns. I use that when addressing the student, also it’s none of my business what the parents call the child I’m not in that.

The ones that utilizes it, appreciates it. It’s all about respect.

 

[1995]

so if the school teachers, and principles decided to change your childs name and pronouns without telling you.

you're just cool with that?
all good, mrs. baxter in room 12 can make that decision without your consent?

I'm pretty sure the kids make that decision and the teachers are respectful enough to comply

 

[RustyShackleford]

all interesting thoughts, it's all very complicated.


looking at the difference between lgbt identified who engage in homosexual activity, and lgtbt identified who don't

I have a theory that modern gender ideology has mostly worked to create
another personal insecurity for girls especially to have to manage.

by substituting something material like natal sex for this subjective notion of "gender identity"
you've created another metric for young people to judge themselves.

a metric that is illusory, and ill defined.
it's almost like a new even more impossible beaty standard

I find it really hard to believe that a young girl who is gender non conforming and going through puberty,
(but doesn't have gender dysphoria)

that it is helpful to instill the notion "maybe you aren't actually a girl?"
and that the only way to know is go on some ill defined internal struggle to define your "gender identity"

im no a sociologist but this strikes me as a bad idea
and low key reifies sex based stereotypes

Yeah I find this hard to believe that modern gender theory is having this much of an effect where it is driving the outcomes we see

Maybe it is happening at the margins, but not at the median

Like the rate of kids identifying as trans has increased, but the numbers are relatively low enough that I would doubt it is having a statistically significant impact on the sample.

Plus we know Facebook knows that IG is horrible for teens' girl body image. And I think stuff like that would be a stronger force in driving the outcomes we are seeing

So generally, I think social media and its growing influence on his younger people see the world and their place in it is the cause.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I changed my post because I didn’t want to misrepresent your wording. But yeah if my kid doesn’t feel comfortable coming out to me then that is my problem, not the people they actually come out to.

welll I think that's totally insane, and not a decision a teacher should be making.
something told in a therapy session, to a school therapist, depending on the age okay don't disclose.

but the entire school changing your kids name and pronouns and hiding it from you?
that's totally inappropriate.


if you are changing someone's name and pronouns because of gender dysphoria
you are essentially embarking on a psychological treatment plan without the consent of the parents.

that's nuts.

 

[wavycrocket]

I think if *****s was more honest, and just stood on it that…they really don’t give af about “trans” or “lgbtq” issues or whatever, then **** would lead to realer and more productive discussions.

I can tell you right now, that stuff doesn’t concern me at all. I don’t really care that much about it, and naturally just find some of the stuff weird. And could never be guilted into accepting some of that stuff as norms to me, or anything else. And is that kinda f’d up? Well yeah.

On the same token, I’m also not naive to the othering of these folks, the vitriol they get, and where the climate could potentially lead to (again). Y’all kidding yourselves if you don’t see where this can lead to. Ugly places.

I’m not tripping on the “they/them” etc stuff. Let them have their thing, and represent themselves the way they want. If I’m talking to somebody, and I “misgender” them. Imma just call em by what they correct me as, and keep it moving. That’s one of the easiest things you can do.

Same way I don’t want nobody F’n up my name or any other thing. I feel like this **** has gotten so abstract, when it’s really simple.

It’s about respect and being human. I feel like ppl take the most polarizing and and extreme versions of these things, and just use them for culture war bs and weird thought experiences.

But on to Dave, I really don’t get why this is his go to now a days. It’s just TIRED, man. So many other things to joke about these days. Everybody can’t love you. And I think that’s what he ultimately wants/wanted. To be looked as “good” by everybody. But that doesn’t matter.

I won’t spoil his latest show, but he seemed to come to the same conclusions. Which is encouraging.

This discussion ain’t even about Dave anymore. He’s GOOD, and will always be good. It’s really interesting how this was successfully whipped
Up into hysteria tho. When we can all agree that members of all groups don’t have exactly the same beliefs. But it’s working, and it’s sad.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I'm pretty sure the kids make that decision and the teachers are respectful enough to comply

yah that sounds insane.
we don't just do whatever children say, they are children.

if a 8 year old kid with an african name, said I don't wanna be african call me Billy.
Should the teacher respectfully comply?

he doesn't identify with being african, he wants to fit in with all the other white kids. so call him billy
and he wants everyone to hide it from his african parents.

and the african parents should just be cool with that?

 

[mplsdunk]

Why should the teachers be talking to the parents about their kids orientation or what they identify as?

It’s not a problem, do you want them to tell the parents what they are for lunch too?

It’s a non issue so they shouldn’t make it one.

Also it’s up to the kid to tell their parents not the teacher. Their job is to teach.

 

[RustyShackleford]

so the teachers go along with this and don't tell the parents?

seems totally inappropriate
and is the kind of story built for fox news segment to foment an anti trans backlash.

I am someone who has taught middle, HS, and college classes, unless it is impacting the kid's learning, their safety, or the learning and safety of other students I don't feel it is my place to out a kid to their parents

If I parent asks me I will be truthful, but damn, I don't think calling a parent after school to be like "You know you child ask me to use they/them pronouns when referring to them" is something that needs to be done.

I mean if I see two girls kissing during lunch should I be picking up the phone like "You know you kids is gay right?"

 

[RustyShackleford]

yah that sounds insane.
we don't just do whatever children say, they are children.

if a 8 year old kid with an african name, said I don't wanna be african call me Billy.
Should the teacher respectfully comply?

he doesn't identify with being african, he wants to fit in with all the other white kids. so call him billy
and he wants everyone to hide it from his african parents.

and the african parents should just be cool with that?

So if an 18-year-old does it

If they would like to be referred to with gender-neutral pronouns, I need to just tell them no and pick up their phone and call their parents?

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I am someone who has taught middle, HS, and college classes, unless it is impacting the kid's learning, their safety, or the learning and safety of other students I don't feel it is my place to out a kid to their parents

If I parent asks me I will be truthful, but damn, I don't think calling a parent after school to be like "You know you child ask me to use they/them pronouns when referring to them" is something that needs to be done.

I mean if I see two girls kissing during lunch should I be picking up the phone like "You know you kids is gay right?"

not telling them about benign thing that happened is one thing.

but actively deciding to change the name and gender identity of a child is another.
you're taking a specific action and the entire school is taking part in it.

I just don't see how that's appropriate.
You my guy but I wouldn't trust you to make that decision for my kid.