Delete/Lock...Draft talk over in JPZ's thread....

[kiddin like jason]

It has nothing to do with workouts; he just isn't very good.

He's a 6'0", 175 pound shooting guard. The point guard skills aren't there. He's fast and that's it.

 

[bhzmafia14]

Originally Posted by Kiddin Like Jason

It has nothing to do with workouts; he just isn't very good.

He's a 6'0", 175 pound shooting guard. The point guard skills aren't there. He's fast and that's it.

You don't see any type of Jameer Nelson in him?

 

[foshizzle]

Originally Posted by Kiddin Like Jason

It has nothing to do with workouts; he just isn't very good.

He's a 6'0", 175 pound shooting guard. The point guard skills aren't there. He's fast and that's it.

Hi, my name is Aaron Brooks, are you talking about me?

 

[ValarMorghulis]

Updated avy and sig until June 25th where Sam Presti will make the smart move, which I'm 99% sure he will do, and draft James Harden.

 

[i nasmatic i]

It is likely that the Knicks will select someone from a group of point guards including Ty Lawson, Stephen Curry, Jrue Holiday and Jonny Flynn.

The coaching staff seems enamored with Holiday while Donnie Walsh, a North Carolina grad, seems to favor Lawson.

allen

.

 

[uclamike]

Originally Posted by FoShizzle

Originally Posted by Kiddin Like Jason

It has nothing to do with workouts; he just isn't very good.

He's a 6'0", 175 pound shooting guard. The point guard skills aren't there. He's fast and that's it.

Hi, my name is Aaron Brooks, are you talking about me?

i will point out tho other then rocket fans none of us on here think brooks is a NBA starting PG

 

[franchise3]

Brooks is definitely better suited coming off the bench IMO. He's a scoring PG.

 

[アミーゴ]

Originally Posted by I NaSmatic I

It is likely that the Knicks will select someone from a group of point guards including Ty Lawson, Stephen Curry, Jrue Holiday and Jonny Flynn.

The coaching staff seems enamored with Holiday while Donnie Walsh, a North Carolina grad, seems to favor Lawson.

allen

.

I want Curry, Flynn or my son BJ

 

[al3xis]

Originally Posted by Ecook0808

Originally Posted by I NaSmatic I

It is likely that the Knicks will select someone from a group of point guards including Ty Lawson, Stephen Curry, Jrue Holiday and Jonny Flynn.

The coaching staff seems enamored with Holiday while Donnie Walsh, a North Carolina grad, seems to favor Lawson.

allen

.

I want Curry, Flynn or my son BJ or trade up for Rubio

 

[doublejs07]

Originally Posted by bhzmafia14

Originally Posted by Kiddin Like Jason

It has nothing to do with workouts; he just isn't very good.

He's a 6'0", 175 pound shooting guard. The point guard skills aren't there. He's fast and that's it.

You don't see any type of Jameer Nelson in him?

Jameer is strong and physical as !@+$....I dunno if I see that aspect in Patty Mills' game...

more draft news...

The NBA draft is less than three weeks away, and there are rumors about players sliding and rising, even though teams haven't had a chance to see most of these guys in individual workouts. Jonathan Givony of Draft Express is reporting that Arizona forward Jordan Hill could slip out of the top five and fall closer to No. 10, with the Wizards possibly leaning toward Davidson point guard Stephen Curry. The Wizards will start bringing in players for the fifth pick tomorrow.

ESPN.com's Chad Ford had an update on Spanish point guard Ricky Rubio, who has notified his club that he wants to terminate his contract and is challenging the $6.6 million buyout, which balloons to $8 million after June 30. Rubio is slated as a top five pick, but one of Ford's sources told him that he will not do workouts but could possibly visit Los Angeles, Oklahoma City and Sacramento. Notice anybody left off? Yeah, Memphis, which holds the No. 2 pick. The source told Ford that he doesn't want to play there after Pau Gasol and Juan Carlos Navarro had poor experiences.

Notice anybody else? Yeah, Washington. A league source informed me that Rubio's agent, Dan Fegan, has no interest in his client playing for the Wizards, even if they were able to move up in the draft. The source told me that Fegan cannot see Rubio and Arenas sharing the same backcourt, since both players need the basketball to be effective. If anybody would know, it'd be Fegan, who represented Arenas from 2002-2006.



http://blog.washingtonpost.com/wizardsinsider/



















*Could anyone w. ESPN insider post Doug Gottlieb's breakdown of the top 30 on the big board? I think it was an article posted yesterday. Thanks inadvance

 

[im not you]

I can't Arenas in the backcourt with any other small guard...which is why I don't understand Steph Curry going 5 unless they swing a deal. Maybe ifSteph comes off the bench in a Jason Terry role but do you spend a #5 on a guy you want to come off the bench?

 

[bhzmafia14]

Yeah, Memphis, which holds the No. 2 pick. The source told Ford that he doesn't want to play there after Pau Gasol and Juan Carlos Navarro had poor experiences.
I think I'm done with Chad Ford til' draft time.

Yeah, Pau had poor experiences after the team gave him the reins to be the franchise player, went to the playoffs 3 straight years, gave him a max deal, andshipped him to LAL where he got to play with the best player in the world.

In other news....

It is being reported on Newsday and Realgm that the Knicks are offering Cuttino Mobley's contract, which is 80% covered due to his heart condition, andpossibly taking on one of the Grizzlies contracts, for the right to swap picks.

It's like every media outlet thinks the Grizzlies will do anything for money. They want Memphis to move down 6 picks for a contract swap?

Memphis already has the lowest payroll in the league (I believe), so that wouldbe stupid. The no.2 pick should land us a serviceable player and another lottery pick. I wouldn't put anything past the Memphis owner, but that's notthe deal I could see him making with the current position the Grizz are in.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/195632-the-ricky-rubio-bidding-war-begins

The NBA Draft rumor mill is certainly picking up.

After the Clippers select Blake Griffin with the top pick in this years draft, the Grizzlies will be officially on the clock, but in essence, they already are.

Reports are coming in, according to the Memphis Commercial Appeal, that Memphis has been approached by the Knicks, Rockets, and Celtics about their 2nd pick. LayupDrill.com has obtained some details regarding the offers of two of those teams.

Rockets

The Rockets would have to be willing to move playoff sensation Aaron Brooks, Chuck Hayes, and a future pick for the rights to the 2nd pick overall.

Knicks

The Knicks would be offering up the 8th pick overall, as well as potentially David Lee in a sign and trade for the 2nd pick and Darko Millicic.

Celtics

There is no clear cut offer that has surfaced for Boston, however most would feel that the Celtics would have to give up Rajon Rondo as well as Tony Allen. The thoughts of trading Ray Allen for the 2nd pick don't make sense for Memphis, who already have O.J Mayo playing the shooting guard spot.


These Knicks offers are flying all over the place. The one listed is the one that I thought was more of an offer than the Mobley crap. I definitelywouldn't do the Houston deal unless they replaced Hayes with Scola. Rondo would definitely look good beside OJ and with his defense alongside OJ'sdefense after another off-season and training camp could be

. Just wishRondo had some type of offensive game

 

[ValarMorghulis]

Steph Curry to the Wizards makes no sense unless someone is moved...
I think he might be the most coveted player outside Blake

 

[franchise3]

Houston deal is bogus.

That's just not enough for the #2.

Rondo isn't getting traded either.

 

[not a sneak]

If Boston is really offering Rondo for the 2nd pick, It would be stupid for them not to take it. He is everything they want in Rubio without the risk.

Rondo
OJ
Rudy
Warrick
Gasol

Very nice defensive team.

 

[i nasmatic i]

Originally Posted by Not a sneak

If Boston is really offering Rondo for the 2nd pick, It would be stupid for them not to take it. He is everything they want in Rubio without the risk.

Rondo
OJ
Rudy
Warrick
Gasol

Very nice defensive team.

Rudy/Hak and very nice defensive team don't go together

. Or O.J. for that matter (yet anyways).

 

[manamazing55]

I never thought Rondo would be as effective as he HAS been so far in the NBA, but why would a team coming off winning a championship last year, get rid of aproven commodity for an unproven one?

That really makes no sense to me.

 

[not a sneak]

Originally Posted by I NaSmatic I

Originally Posted by Not a sneak

If Boston is really offering Rondo for the 2nd pick, It would be stupid for them not to take it. He is everything they want in Rubio without the risk.

Rondo
OJ
Rudy
Warrick
Gasol

Very nice defensive team.

Rudy/Hak and very nice defensive team don't go together

. Or O.J. for that matter (yet anyways).

Well while I watched OJ this season I say flashes of OJ playing lockdown defense when he wanted too, they just need a coach to put the pieces in place. Plusbringing in Rondo would bring in that championship winning mentality.

 

[i nasmatic i]

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by bhzmafia14

Originally Posted by Kiddin Like Jason

It has nothing to do with workouts; he just isn't very good.

He's a 6'0", 175 pound shooting guard. The point guard skills aren't there. He's fast and that's it.

You don't see any type of Jameer Nelson in him?

Jameer is strong and physical as !@+$....I dunno if I see that aspect in Patty Mills' game...

more draft news...

The NBA draft is less than three weeks away, and there are rumors about players sliding and rising, even though teams haven't had a chance to see most of these guys in individual workouts. Jonathan Givony of Draft Express is reporting that Arizona forward Jordan Hill could slip out of the top five and fall closer to No. 10, with the Wizards possibly leaning toward Davidson point guard Stephen Curry. The Wizards will start bringing in players for the fifth pick tomorrow.

ESPN.com's Chad Ford had an update on Spanish point guard Ricky Rubio, who has notified his club that he wants to terminate his contract and is challenging the $6.6 million buyout, which balloons to $8 million after June 30. Rubio is slated as a top five pick, but one of Ford's sources told him that he will not do workouts but could possibly visit Los Angeles, Oklahoma City and Sacramento. Notice anybody left off? Yeah, Memphis, which holds the No. 2 pick. The source told Ford that he doesn't want to play there after Pau Gasol and Juan Carlos Navarro had poor experiences.

Notice anybody else? Yeah, Washington. A league source informed me that Rubio's agent, Dan Fegan, has no interest in his client playing for the Wizards, even if they were able to move up in the draft. The source told me that Fegan cannot see Rubio and Arenas sharing the same backcourt, since both players need the basketball to be effective. If anybody would know, it'd be Fegan, who represented Arenas from 2002-2006.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/wizardsinsider/


*Could anyone w. ESPN insider post Doug Gottlieb's breakdown of the top 30 on the big board? I think it was an article posted yesterday. Thanks in advance


Espn's Doug Gottlieb's Big Board

By Doug Gottlieb

Before ranking players on any Big Board, it's important to have a philosophy heading into the draft. So with the June 25 draft just two weeks away, hereare five things every NBA general manager should keep in mind:

• Everyone would like to wait till next year. So if you are not in love with what you see on your draft broad, go Chicago Cubs-style and "wait till nextyear" and its stellar draft class. While most NBA pundits talk glowingly about the free-agent class of 2010, the college basketball world is smitten withthe vast amount of returning talent in its game. Potential lottery picks Greg Monroe, Al-Farouq Aminu, Willie Warren, Cole Aldrich, Luke Babbitt, JeromeJordan, Evan Turner, James Anderson, Kyle Singler, Craig Brackins, Ed Davis, Kalin Lucas and Jarvis Varnado will be joined by a much-better freshman class(John Wall, Avery Bradley, Renardo Sidney, Derrick Favors just to name a few) in what surely will be a very deep draft. ESPN's Fran Fraschilla has calledthis year's draft class the worst in 25 years. Listen to those who know and get a pick from a potential lottery team for next year.

• If you need help now, value highly productive major college players who are undersized or play an in-between position instead of "upside" guys.Darren Collison, Marcus Thornton, Terrence Williams and Jon Brockman can be very helpful to playoff teams in need of a productive bench player in the latefirst or early second round.

• Make sure that an evaluation takes into account the surrounding personnel. Take Damion James, for example. He was a lock lotto pick playing with D.J.Augustin, but after a year without a big-time point guard, James' stock has dipped. Bottom line, he is an unreal athlete who needs someone else to set himup. If he does -- someone like CP3, Deron Williams or Steve Nash -- he will excel.

• Do not let the NCAA tournament sway your feelings. From Johnny Morton to Johnny Taylor, Corey Brewer to Mateen Cleaves, NCAA success does not equal NBAskill. From Lawson to Curry to Maynor, don't let the glamour of the Dance sway the quality of evaluation.

• Be wary of the workout warrior. We say it every year in football and it rings true in hoops, as well. Talent evaluators have rightfully been impressed withall the private viewings over the past month, and stocks are rising and falling due to reviews that keep coming in. But let's get real here. Theoft-criticized "one-and-done" rule has provided us with ample real-game footage of these guys. A scout's instinct over the last year is no lessvaluable than anything that might've taken place over the last month.

With that said, here is what the top 30 of my Big Board would look like …


[+] EnlargeJim Brown/US Presswire
You'll be hard-pressed to find a Big Board that doesn't have Blake Griffin at the top.
1. Blake Griffin, Oklahoma

What I like: Beast. Strong as an ox. Tulsa's Jerome Jordan, who played against Memphis for a couple of years with Joey Dorsey, told me recently thatGriffin is "far and away the strongest guy I have ever played against and he gets off the floor really quickly." Griffin has played hurt, plays hardand comes from a two-parent home that appears to be the real deal and would keep him on an even keel in Los Angeles (assuming the Clippers draft him). He has aunique type of fluidity for his size and strength, and while he is not the shooter he needs to be, there is not a real flaw in his delivery for that not toimprove as his legs start to age. Griffin is a very good passer from the double-team and he seems to enjoy the assist more than others at his position. Heblocks shots based on effort and athleticism, not length, which proves his motor is phenomenal.

What I don't like: The best player in a weak draft. Only 6-foot-8½ in bare feet and not long. He is not a good free-throw shooter and not a good shooter,period.

Best case: A more athletic Karl Malone.

2. Ricky Rubio, Spain

What I like: Clever as can be with the ball, he has a Steve Nash-meets-Pistol Pete-feel. Unlike both those guys, Rubio is a below-average shooter, but his formand numbers have improved. If you put a team around him, he will entertain from day one. While he plays no defense and is immature at times in terms ofdecision-making, the skills seem to be there with good size to overcome his lack of speed.

What I don't like: There is not really a blueprint for a non-defender, below-the-rim point guard who is a poor shooter and average finisher.

Best case: A bigger Steve Nash with the looks and flair of the Pistol.

3. Jrue Holiday, UCLA

What I like: The best high school player in America in 2008, Holiday is a unique guard who can make everyone else better while also getting his. Is as fluidand natural an athlete as there is in the draft.

What I don't like: Is he really a point? He doesn't shoot it that well. Holiday seemed to pout a bit when there was adversity during his freshman yearat UCLA.

Best case: Gary Payton

4. DeMar DeRozan, USC

What I like: Freaky athlete with massive upside. Began to "get it" at the end of the season. One of the few players in the draft who will not have tochange position in the NBA -- he is a much more natural 2 than Harden. Poster child for "upside" and may spend time in the D-League, but in a draftof uncertainties, he seems to have the measurables to eventually live up to his massive talent.

What I don't like: Below-average 3-point shooter in college, very raw in terms of basketball acumen, and may need the right tutoring from a veterancoach/player, as he has some hangers-on he needs to part with.

Best case: David Thompson

5. Brandon Jennings, Italy

What I like: Jennings can be as dynamic with the ball as Chris Paul, and like Paul, he can finish at the rim. No question there's a lot of talent here.

What I don't like: Carried himself with a major attitude when last seen in the States, and fell flat in Italy. Shoots a lot, but does not shoot it thatwell. His shot selection and decision-making leave a lot to be desired. Has a slight build and does not look like he will put on weight.

Best case: Jason Williams meets Damon Stoudamire

6. Hasheem Thabeet, Connecticut

What I like: Huge, long and with great timing while blocking shots, Thabeet has some very intriguing attributes. He is a very good teammate, has not played aton of basketball and has rapidly improved his hands along the way. Thabeet is also a low-maintenance guy in that he is not used to being the focus of anoffense, thus he will not be offended when he doesn't get the ball early in his career.

What I don't like: His hands are suspect and his "feel" is just not there. Thabeet struggles to catch in traffic, hold position against strongerplayers and can be a liability on ball screens.

Best case: Dikembe Mutombo

7. Jeff Teague, Wake Forest

What I like: Teague can finish at the rim and has a very sound midrange game. His first step far exceeds that of Stephen Curry. Not a true point but has themakings of the most underrated player in the draft. Can shoot the 3, but needs work on the catch-and-shoot game off screens and from deep.

What I don't like: As a leader, his team fell apart at midseason and was never the same. Also, Teague is not nearly as good without the ball or in ahalf-court game.

Best case: Devin Harris with a jump shot

After playing 181 minutes in four games at the Big East tourney, Flynn still had enough to lead Syracuse to the Sweet 16.

8. Jordan Hill, Arizona

What I like: Has played basketball for only the past six years competitively. Hill has played hurt, played tough and loves a physical game. Hill, like Thabeet,is more used to getting his points off the rim and not off the pass, making it an easier transition as a team's fourth or fifth offensive option.

What I don't like: Is not great at any one thing, and seems more like Etan Thomas than Brian Grant.

Best case: A Brian Grant-type

9. Jonny Flynn, Syracuse

What I like: Ultra-quick and a very strong scoring point guard. Flynn is difficult to keep out of the lane and, unlike many other point guards, he will finishabove the rim. He is a great competitor and winner who can lift a team to five more wins on his drive alone.

What I don't like: Needs to be a better shooter and make fewer turnovers, and his defense is a bit raw.

Best case: Kevin Johnson

10. James Harden, Arizona State

What I like: Good competitor and a player you want with the game on the line. Harden has a pretty diverse game on the offensive end. His body and game aremature, and he gives and takes contact well. Harden knows how to score.

What I don't like: Rarely goes right, not really a guard, and he is an average athlete.

Best case: Manu Ginobili

11. Patty Mills, Saint Mary's

With better players around him, Mills is a terror to contain. Apparently, scouts did not see the obvious difference in speed with the ball as he dismantledSteph Curry in the NIT, but among those who did -- and those watched the Olympics -- they get this ranking. The knocks against Mills are:

1. He got hurt (it was his wrist in a freak fall, not a knee)
2. His shooting can be erratic (sure, but he has improved steadily)
3. He is a defensive liability (this is true, but that is due to effort, not skill)

12. B.J. Mullens, Ohio State

Huge body and a vicious dunker in traffic. Mullins seems to be two years from putting it together, but if/when he does, look out. He can shoot a pick-and-popand is fearless in terms of competition.

13. Tyreke Evans, Memphis

A great driver off the bounce, Evans uses his body really well. Decent passer who showed a marked unselfishness in his stint at Memphis. The bad? No position,finishes below the rim and is not a great athlete. Evans can score, but it will take a good fit to work.

14. Earl Clark, Louisville

Long, skilled and athletic, Clark has all the vitals to be a 10-year NBA player. He has the ability to play either a long 3 or a face-up 4 and can guardseveral positions. Clark is as up and down as the stock market, not from game to game, but within each game. He seems to lack a basketball IQ to put it alltogether.

15. Stephen Curry, Davidson

A prolific shooter with range and an improving off-the-dribble game. Curry has a prodigious work ethic, and his body and game seem to respond with substantialimprovement. He is very comfortable on ball screens, as he is coming off screens in order to shoot or show a deft passing touch. The problem is, he's inbetween a 1 and a 2. He's a high-volume shooter who will have to adjust to far fewer looks in the league and an average athlete who may struggle to containboth positions.

16. James Johnson, Wake Forest

Terrific build and skill set, and can score in bunches both inside and out. Not as good an athlete as some may believe. Really struggles to guard on theperimeter.

Douglas averaged 21.5 ppg and led FSU to its first Big Dance in more than a decade.

17. Gerald Henderson, Duke

A poor man's Kobe who does a very good Kobe impression. (Remember when Kobe used to talk like MJ?) Henderson is a terrific athlete who is an improvingshooter to go with his midrange game.

18. Toney Douglas, Florida State

This year's Courtney Lee. Big-time scorer who can play the 1. Though not nearly as good a defender as his rep, will be able to contain other teams'point guards with his lateral speed and strength. Additionally, Douglas is ready right now to be a Ben Gordon-type of off the bench -- a guard who can give youpoints in a hurry.

19. Damion James, Texas

Uber-athlete who will be much better in an open court and with a viable point guard. James can defend and rebound at a high level and his shot is not that faroff.

20. Gani Lawal, Georgia Tech

Played without a true point in college and that hurt his game and his team's win total. Can block shots and board, and can score when given the ball andspace. A solid backup post in the NBA with a chance to eventually be a starter.

21. Darren Collison, UCLA

Very sound backup point guard who knows how to lead and win. Unlike Lawson, he is very good off ball screens. Collison is slight of build and may never start,but he is solid and sound and can really defend.

22. Derrick Brown, Xavier

Long, lean and really active, Brown can defend inside and out, is good on the break and eventually will become a legit 3. His game is a bit unorthodox, butthat makes him better and more intriguing. His shot-blocking and tip-ins sometimes go unnoticed.

23. Omri Casspi, Israel

Face-up 3 or 4 who must get stronger, but he is fearless at attacking the rim. Has a ton of valuable experience in the high-level Euro league that otherprospects have struggled in.

24. Terrence Williams, Louisville

Good player who does everything well, nothing great. Should be a fine passing 2 coming off the bench -- a guy who can play some point in a pinch. Versatilitymakes him valuable.

25. Sam Young, Pittsburgh

Desmond Mason-type who is a great competitor and athlete. Needs to guard better on the perimeter with his feet, but will finish way above the rim and can playsome undersized 4. Will post smaller guards.

26. Eric Maynor, VCU

Great midrange pull-up shooter and a good leader. Does not handle, pass or shoot from distance as well as his rep, but a good point and productive player totake late.

27. Wayne Ellington, North Carolina

Smooth wing who lacks the burst to be a legit lottery pick.

28. Marcus Thornton, LSU

Big-time scorer who goes on binges of 30-point games, but he is smaller than listed and is not as consistent as needed to go higher.

29. Ty Lawson, North Carolina

Do not think I am hating on Lawson, but he is small and not as creative a playmaker as others in this draft. Lawson was great at Carolina and will play in theleague for a long while, but he most likely will be a backup for the vast majority of his career.

30. Austin Daye, Gonzaga
Not sure what all the hubbub is about. Daye is young, thin and, yes, soft. Durant was weak at this stage too, but he wasn't soft. Daye looks like he hasthe talent to be a star, but only a great team that can stow him away should take the risk of waiting.

"Should be somewhere on this list: DeJuan Blair, Pittsburgh
Not sure where to put him since some teams have raised some health red flags. One thing that is not in doubt: The man is a beast. Undersized but very long andfearless. He does play below the rim, has terrible footwork guarding ball screens and his shot needs some mechanical work, but he does comepete hard at bothends, can score over either shoulder and is a winner. Period."

 

[philballa09]

at his rankings

 

[osh kosh bosh]

^ That Is a awful ranking/scouting reports.

Who wrote that?

 

[bhzmafia14]

Originally Posted by I NaSmatic I

Originally Posted by Not a sneak

If Boston is really offering Rondo for the 2nd pick, It would be stupid for them not to take it. He is everything they want in Rubio without the risk.

Rondo
OJ
Rudy
Warrick
Gasol

Very nice defensive team.

Rudy/Hak and very nice defensive team don't go together

. Or O.J. for that matter (yet anyways).

I wish Memphis would start Hak.

They could sign Lee or Millsap and be looking pretty good.

@ Mullins being the 11th best draft prospect. It's too muchlaughable stuff on that list.

 

[ValarMorghulis]

Gottlieb giving some love to Damion James.... which is true dude was a top 20 prospect with DJ 2 seasons ago, and has worked hard to improve his jumper

 

[put em up]

4. DeMar DeRozan, USC

What I like: Freaky athlete with massive upside. Began to "get it" at the end of the season. One of the few players in the draft who will not have to change position in the NBA -- he is a much more natural 2 than Harden. Poster child for "upside" and may spend time in the D-League, but in a draft of uncertainties, he seems to have the measurables to eventually live up to his massive talent.

What I don't like: Below-average 3-point shooter in college, very raw in terms of basketball acumen, and may need the right tutoring from a veteran coach/player, as he has some hangers-on he needs to part with.

Best case: David Thompson

i always think its funny when writer compare players who've never stepped foot on a NBA court to HOF legends.

 

[starburyptgod]

at DG's big board

Patty Mills is #11.