titles become more of a career/legacy thing. Tim Duncan was winning titles in 2005, 2007 time frame..I didn't think he was a better player than Kobe at that point but he was beginning to get a leg up on him legacy wise.
See, now we gettin somewhere.
X, it could be argued that 98 MJ WAS better then 88 MJ. Age. Simple as that. He was more refined in 98, then he was 88. His game was flawless in 98, despite not having the athleticism of his youth. I've watched that 63 in Boston game a bunch of times, and he looks damn gangly.Elbows and knees everywhere. But in some 30 point games in 96-98, he was smooth as could be, knew every spot on the floor he wanted. He had it all, almost no wasted motion.
Bron at 30 will by far be better then Bron at 23 imo. I know he will.
Well, same with Kobe. He certainly is losing his jump, but yet, he plays better in a sense. He knows more, he knows his spots better, he's practiced certain shots more, whatever the case is. He was obviously ridiculously talented in 02, but he may be overall better today.
Allen, in your point, you mention Duncan, here's where we are talking about things different, but the same. I'm not comparing say Robert Horry's 7 rings to Duncan or Kobe, I'm comparing a great numbers guy, an elite if you will, with another elite. In similar positions. Differnt, but similar. The legacy thing HAS to be considered with these elites. Not that Lebron's is done, hell, Kobe's isn't even done yet. (Nor Duncan's) But I'm sorry, if you are going to come at me in 10 years and say, well, Bron never won a ring, but in 09 he was the better player, and in 10 he was the better player, etc etc, and yet, Kobe's up to 5-6-7 rings at that point, and was possibly 1A in terms of that year, then you have to step back and look and say, was he really the better player, cuz stats say he was?
Like I said, it's not like I'm comparing Kobe as Michael Redd, and he won a title this year, Bron didn't. Kobe is not the 20th best player in the game or whatever. Shannon Brown isn't better then Bron cuz he got a title. But Kobe and Bron are close enough to compare game wise, then you have to add ring or title or advancement in, just like a stat. I find it hard to believe people really walkin around goin, well Bron averaged 29 this year, and Kobe only 27 so Bron's better, even though Kobe won a title. I don't agree with that.
Just as there are too many factors in a team winning a title or not, there are the same factors in a players game. Kobe had bad knee, ankle, broken finger on his shooting hand, a few days of back spasms, and yet his numbers were similar. What if Kobe was pristine condition this year, played his @#% off and then got beat in the playoffs and Bron won a title? You expect me to believe that Bron fans would not be jumping for joy over that? Come on now.
IMO Kobe is the best player in the game becuase there isn't a spot on the floor he can't attack, use. He can go left, right, use his left hand, shoot from deep, fadeaway, go on the block, baseline, elbows, angles, from teh corner, pull up, off the dribble, off a screen, all of it. He can defend, he can board, he can pass. Bron can do MUCH of that as well, I have no doubts, but I do not believe that he can take and make all of those shots. He has improved, but I don't consider Bron to be able to make the mid range shots over and over and over that Kobe does. Boston was able to smoother him because he could not consistently hit shots in between, Kobe can. Now yes, 6-24 didn't help that, but that defense in game 7 was incredible, if you look at the rest of the series, and the shots he hit vs the Suns, and the Jazz, etc etc after he got his knee drained, you could see the change in his game. Just like how his 3 point shooting came back, like I said it would back in December.
Oh and next year, 6-24 could mean something else..........
Did Boston use the 2-3 zone to stop Lebron ?
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by acbboyz84,
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titles become more of a career/legacy thing. Tim Duncan was winning titles in 2005, 2007 time frame..I didn't think he was a better player than Kobe at that point but he was beginning to get a leg up on him legacy wise.
See, now we gettin somewhere.
X, it could be argued that 98 MJ WAS better then 88 MJ. Age. Simple as that. He was more refined in 98, then he was 88. His game was flawless in 98, despite not having the athleticism of his youth. I've watched that 63 in Boston game a bunch of times, and he looks damn gangly.Elbows and knees everywhere. But in some 30 point games in 96-98, he was smooth as could be, knew every spot on the floor he wanted. He had it all, almost no wasted motion.
Bron at 30 will by far be better then Bron at 23 imo. I know he will.
Well, same with Kobe. He certainly is losing his jump, but yet, he plays better in a sense. He knows more, he knows his spots better, he's practiced certain shots more, whatever the case is. He was obviously ridiculously talented in 02, but he may be overall better today.
Allen, in your point, you mention Duncan, here's where we are talking about things different, but the same. I'm not comparing say Robert Horry's 7 rings to Duncan or Kobe, I'm comparing a great numbers guy, an elite if you will, with another elite. In similar positions. Differnt, but similar. The legacy thing HAS to be considered with these elites. Not that Lebron's is done, hell, Kobe's isn't even done yet. (Nor Duncan's) But I'm sorry, if you are going to come at me in 10 years and say, well, Bron never won a ring, but in 09 he was the better player, and in 10 he was the better player, etc etc, and yet, Kobe's up to 5-6-7 rings at that point, and was possibly 1A in terms of that year, then you have to step back and look and say, was he really the better player, cuz stats say he was?
Like I said, it's not like I'm comparing Kobe as Michael Redd, and he won a title this year, Bron didn't. Kobe is not the 20th best player in the game or whatever. Shannon Brown isn't better then Bron cuz he got a title. But Kobe and Bron are close enough to compare game wise, then you have to add ring or title or advancement in, just like a stat. I find it hard to believe people really walkin around goin, well Bron averaged 29 this year, and Kobe only 27 so Bron's better, even though Kobe won a title. I don't agree with that.
Just as there are too many factors in a team winning a title or not, there are the same factors in a players game. Kobe had bad knee, ankle, broken finger on his shooting hand, a few days of back spasms, and yet his numbers were similar. What if Kobe was pristine condition this year, played his @#% off and then got beat in the playoffs and Bron won a title? You expect me to believe that Bron fans would not be jumping for joy over that? Come on now.
IMO Kobe is the best player in the game becuase there isn't a spot on the floor he can't attack, use. He can go left, right, use his left hand, shoot from deep, fadeaway, go on the block, baseline, elbows, angles, from teh corner, pull up, off the dribble, off a screen, all of it. He can defend, he can board, he can pass. Bron can do MUCH of that as well, I have no doubts, but I do not believe that he can take and make all of those shots. He has improved, but I don't consider Bron to be able to make the mid range shots over and over and over that Kobe does. Boston was able to smoother him because he could not consistently hit shots in between, Kobe can. Now yes, 6-24 didn't help that, but that defense in game 7 was incredible, if you look at the rest of the series, and the shots he hit vs the Suns, and the Jazz, etc etc after he got his knee drained, you could see the change in his game. Just like how his 3 point shooting came back, like I said it would back in December.
Oh and next year, 6-24 could mean something else..........
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oh god, people still think kobe is better than lebron?
people really think their supporting casts are even close to comparable?
get a grip on reality, please.
kobe may have 10x the basketball skills lebron has (lefthanded fadeaways and other ridiculous shots in his arsenal demonstrate this) but lebron's insane combination of athleticism, size, and court vision make him a cut above anyone else in the game right now.
put him on a team with gasol, bynum, odom, artest, etc. and the celtics would've been swept. and i say this as a die-hard c's fan.
people really think their supporting casts are even close to comparable?
get a grip on reality, please.
kobe may have 10x the basketball skills lebron has (lefthanded fadeaways and other ridiculous shots in his arsenal demonstrate this) but lebron's insane combination of athleticism, size, and court vision make him a cut above anyone else in the game right now.
put him on a team with gasol, bynum, odom, artest, etc. and the celtics would've been swept. and i say this as a die-hard c's fan.
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oh god, people still think kobe is better than lebron?
people really think their supporting casts are even close to comparable?
get a grip on reality, please.
kobe may have 10x the basketball skills lebron has (lefthanded fadeaways and other ridiculous shots in his arsenal demonstrate this) but lebron's insane combination of athleticism, size, and court vision make him a cut above anyone else in the game right now.
put him on a team with gasol, bynum, odom, artest, etc. and the celtics would've been swept. and i say this as a die-hard c's fan.
people really think their supporting casts are even close to comparable?
get a grip on reality, please.
kobe may have 10x the basketball skills lebron has (lefthanded fadeaways and other ridiculous shots in his arsenal demonstrate this) but lebron's insane combination of athleticism, size, and court vision make him a cut above anyone else in the game right now.
put him on a team with gasol, bynum, odom, artest, etc. and the celtics would've been swept. and i say this as a die-hard c's fan.
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I respect that. And I at least respect guys like you and mamba and others who haven't flip flopped on the topic over the course of a month. I don't even think those who view Kobe as the best are really wrong in thinking so, I think he's great, I just prefer LeBron..have for a while.
I'm not all that concerned with Bron's legacy quite yet, in 2 years if there's no ring and on the way to more, I will be.
I'm not all that concerned with Bron's legacy quite yet, in 2 years if there's no ring and on the way to more, I will be.
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I respect that. And I at least respect guys like you and mamba and others who haven't flip flopped on the topic over the course of a month. I don't even think those who view Kobe as the best are really wrong in thinking so, I think he's great, I just prefer LeBron..have for a while.
I'm not all that concerned with Bron's legacy quite yet, in 2 years if there's no ring and on the way to more, I will be.
I'm not all that concerned with Bron's legacy quite yet, in 2 years if there's no ring and on the way to more, I will be.
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he gave up in Game 5&6 for whatever reason, he gave up.. You could see he wasn't 100% in the game.. That's the difference between Conference Finals & NBA finals.. And disappointing season and championship season.... Whether we are comparing Lebron & Kobe.. Or any 2 players ever in history.. I think at one point it will all click for him but it takes time, growth and development...
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he gave up in Game 5&6 for whatever reason, he gave up.. You could see he wasn't 100% in the game.. That's the difference between Conference Finals & NBA finals.. And disappointing season and championship season.... Whether we are comparing Lebron & Kobe.. Or any 2 players ever in history.. I think at one point it will all click for him but it takes time, growth and development...
Kobe is still the best. One thing that people need to account for is that, over the course of 82 regular games, not everyone plays their hardest. Kobe may be on cruise control during the regular season and play his hardest in the playoffs.
LeBron needs to get it done in the playoffs to overtake Kobe. His team had the best regular season record 2 years in a row. I know I just said that people don't play as hard during the regular season but having the best regular season record definitely means that a team is capable of competing for a championship.
That's one reason why I never gave much value to the 81 point game by Kobe. Scoring 50-60 points in a playoff game means more to me than 81 in a meaningless regular season game in which half these guys aren't even playing hard.
LeBron needs to get it done in the playoffs to overtake Kobe. His team had the best regular season record 2 years in a row. I know I just said that people don't play as hard during the regular season but having the best regular season record definitely means that a team is capable of competing for a championship.
That's one reason why I never gave much value to the 81 point game by Kobe. Scoring 50-60 points in a playoff game means more to me than 81 in a meaningless regular season game in which half these guys aren't even playing hard.
Kobe is still the best. One thing that people need to account for is that, over the course of 82 regular games, not everyone plays their hardest. Kobe may be on cruise control during the regular season and play his hardest in the playoffs.
LeBron needs to get it done in the playoffs to overtake Kobe. His team had the best regular season record 2 years in a row. I know I just said that people don't play as hard during the regular season but having the best regular season record definitely means that a team is capable of competing for a championship.
That's one reason why I never gave much value to the 81 point game by Kobe. Scoring 50-60 points in a playoff game means more to me than 81 in a meaningless regular season game in which half these guys aren't even playing hard.
LeBron needs to get it done in the playoffs to overtake Kobe. His team had the best regular season record 2 years in a row. I know I just said that people don't play as hard during the regular season but having the best regular season record definitely means that a team is capable of competing for a championship.
That's one reason why I never gave much value to the 81 point game by Kobe. Scoring 50-60 points in a playoff game means more to me than 81 in a meaningless regular season game in which half these guys aren't even playing hard.
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wut?
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wut?
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Kobe stepped it up in the playoffs. Agreed.
But you think LeBron didn't??? Say what you want about him mailing in games 6 & 7 (as if Kobe didn't have SEVERAL off games in the Finals, the NBA's biggest stage where he is supposed to shine the brightest)
Dude was the best player in the regular season and the best in the playoffs. To do what he has done with the team he has is absurd. Post-Shaq Pre-Gasol Kobe didn't do half of what this guy is doing, so you can't act like blaming the supporting cast is a weak excuse.
Kobe is great, one of the best ever, but LeBron has surpassed him everywhere. LeBron is a better scorer (more points and a better shooting % = better scorer, I don't care how many shots Kobe can pull out of his *@%). A better rebounder. A better passer. A better defender. What else is there? Wins? Put him on a team like Kobe's then. He's still carried his team to the finals, to the best regular season record, etc. with almost no help. While this doesn't = four rings or even one, it counts for something.
Guys like KG and AI who are HOFers couldn;'t get past the 1st round or didn't make the playoffs at all most years on terrible teams. LeBron has almost won it all with his.
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Kobe stepped it up in the playoffs. Agreed.
But you think LeBron didn't??? Say what you want about him mailing in games 6 & 7 (as if Kobe didn't have SEVERAL off games in the Finals, the NBA's biggest stage where he is supposed to shine the brightest)
Dude was the best player in the regular season and the best in the playoffs. To do what he has done with the team he has is absurd. Post-Shaq Pre-Gasol Kobe didn't do half of what this guy is doing, so you can't act like blaming the supporting cast is a weak excuse.
Kobe is great, one of the best ever, but LeBron has surpassed him everywhere. LeBron is a better scorer (more points and a better shooting % = better scorer, I don't care how many shots Kobe can pull out of his *@%). A better rebounder. A better passer. A better defender. What else is there? Wins? Put him on a team like Kobe's then. He's still carried his team to the finals, to the best regular season record, etc. with almost no help. While this doesn't = four rings or even one, it counts for something.
Guys like KG and AI who are HOFers couldn;'t get past the 1st round or didn't make the playoffs at all most years on terrible teams. LeBron has almost won it all with his.
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Look at the end of each game.. Watch both 4th quarters again if possible.. I'm not the first person to say this either
edit:My bad I meant 5&6.. Forgot it only went 6
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Look at the end of each game.. Watch both 4th quarters again if possible.. I'm not the first person to say this either
edit:My bad I meant 5&6.. Forgot it only went 6
MON5T3R
formerly cant nobody stop me
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MON5T3R
formerly cant nobody stop me
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MON5T3R
formerly cant nobody stop me
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MON5T3R
formerly cant nobody stop me
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Are people this dense?
Stats aren't the end all, be all. There's more to being "the best" or a "a winner" than stats. I could rattle off player after player whose stats make them seem a lot better than they really are. We all know of these players.
What's holding Lebron back is his psychological makeup. You can't be "the best" unless you're a leader and Lebron is not a leader...yet.
Can he become one? It just may not be in his psychological makeup.
Lebron is a physical phenom but he isn't the first nor will he be the last. He may be the best physical phenom yet but that's all he may be.
Most arguing for Lebron do not even realize how hard the NBA hype machine has pushed for him ever since his HS days to even make arguments like this possible.
Stats aren't the end all, be all. There's more to being "the best" or a "a winner" than stats. I could rattle off player after player whose stats make them seem a lot better than they really are. We all know of these players.
What's holding Lebron back is his psychological makeup. You can't be "the best" unless you're a leader and Lebron is not a leader...yet.
Can he become one? It just may not be in his psychological makeup.
Lebron is a physical phenom but he isn't the first nor will he be the last. He may be the best physical phenom yet but that's all he may be.
Most arguing for Lebron do not even realize how hard the NBA hype machine has pushed for him ever since his HS days to even make arguments like this possible.
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Are people this dense?
Stats aren't the end all, be all. There's more to being "the best" or a "a winner" than stats. I could rattle off player after player whose stats make them seem a lot better than they really are. We all know of these players.
What's holding Lebron back is his psychological makeup. You can't be "the best" unless you're a leader and Lebron is not a leader...yet.
Can he become one? It just may not be in his psychological makeup.
Lebron is a physical phenom but he isn't the first nor will he be the last. He may be the best physical phenom yet but that's all he may be.
Most arguing for Lebron do not even realize how hard the NBA hype machine has pushed for him ever since his HS days to even make arguments like this possible.
Stats aren't the end all, be all. There's more to being "the best" or a "a winner" than stats. I could rattle off player after player whose stats make them seem a lot better than they really are. We all know of these players.
What's holding Lebron back is his psychological makeup. You can't be "the best" unless you're a leader and Lebron is not a leader...yet.
Can he become one? It just may not be in his psychological makeup.
Lebron is a physical phenom but he isn't the first nor will he be the last. He may be the best physical phenom yet but that's all he may be.
Most arguing for Lebron do not even realize how hard the NBA hype machine has pushed for him ever since his HS days to even make arguments like this possible.
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^He has lived up to the hype unlike any other athlete in sports history, IMO.
Lebron isn't a leader? lulz.
I forget how great of a leader Kobe is when he himself declares Fisher the emotional leader of the team.
Gasol, Artest, Odom. All 3 are better players than anyone on the Cavs.
Lebron isn't a leader? lulz.
I forget how great of a leader Kobe is when he himself declares Fisher the emotional leader of the team.
Gasol, Artest, Odom. All 3 are better players than anyone on the Cavs.
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^He has lived up to the hype unlike any other athlete in sports history, IMO.
Lebron isn't a leader? lulz.
I forget how great of a leader Kobe is when he himself declares Fisher the emotional leader of the team.
Gasol, Artest, Odom. All 3 are better players than anyone on the Cavs.
Lebron isn't a leader? lulz.
I forget how great of a leader Kobe is when he himself declares Fisher the emotional leader of the team.
Gasol, Artest, Odom. All 3 are better players than anyone on the Cavs.
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I'm not the first person to say this, but the Celtics beat the Cavs because they were a better team. Smh at giving up.