Did Boston use the 2-3 zone to stop Lebron ?

[nicedudewithnicedreams]

Originally Posted by Cant Nobody Stop Me

Originally Posted by Essential1

Originally Posted by nicedudewithnicedreams

Originally Posted by Essential1

he gave up in Game 6 & 7.

wut?

Look at the end of each game.. Watch both 4th quarters again if possible.. I'm not the first person to say this either

Maybe you should watch it again.

I'm not the first person to say this, but the Celtics beat the Cavs because they were a better team. Smh at giving up.

 

[joe camel smooth]

let's not forget kobe's tantrums and immaturity until recently that did nothing positive for his team

lebron is a lot more levelheaded, which counts for something if we want to pull intangibles out of our $%% in order to justify one player's superiority over another's.

 

[joe camel smooth]

let's not forget kobe's tantrums and immaturity until recently that did nothing positive for his team

lebron is a lot more levelheaded, which counts for something if we want to pull intangibles out of our $%% in order to justify one player's superiority over another's.

 

[essential1]

No of course the Celtics were better.. It is evident.. Maybe he had no chance at all but in those 4th quarters he just gave up. Wasn't running up and down court. Walking. Taking some ridiculous shots.. Not yelling at teammates for lack of effort.. That's his job to refocus the team...

 

[essential1]

No of course the Celtics were better.. It is evident.. Maybe he had no chance at all but in those 4th quarters he just gave up. Wasn't running up and down court. Walking. Taking some ridiculous shots.. Not yelling at teammates for lack of effort.. That's his job to refocus the team...

 

[xsalvioutlawx]

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Originally Posted by BOTTOM74BOTTOM

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

26.8 ppg

.447 fg%

9.3 rpg

7.2 apg

2.2 spg

1.3 bpg

4.5 to



= stopped



28.6 ppg

.405 fg%

8.0 rpg

3.9 apg

2.1 spg

0.7 b+g

3.9 to



= unstoppable champion

You say that like LBJ advanced to the Finals or something..

You say that like Kobe didn't shoot 6-24 in game 7 and didn't get bailed out or something.

Of course he didn't advance to the finals when what was supposed to be his #2 man in Antawn Jamison averaged 12 points on 42% shooting, 7 rebounds and 1 assist against the Celtics, whereas Kobe had all kinds of players to bail him out throughout the finals, starting with the guy who he robbed of his finals MVP and who averaged close to 19 on 48%, 12, 4 and 3. Not to mention Derek Fisher in game 3 and Artest in game 7.

It's the same story as last year. Both seasons LeBron and Kobe met the same teams in the playoffs with LeBron owning Kobe individually in both series and putting up better and more efficient numbers while Kobe gets the win due to a better supporting cast and superior coaching.

Lebron fans full of excuses......... Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. Talking about KB's shooting percentage when he had legit injuries BEFORE the playoffs yet still had enough in the tank to win another title.

Just wait till he's healthy next season.

How about Lebrons percentage in all the losses vs the Celtics? Wasn't it something like 36% from the field? Not to mention how bad his 3 point percentage was as well.

Why am I arguing with you though? Kobe and the Lakers just won ring number 5 against a team who knocked LBJ and the "Best" team in the NBA for 2 years in a row out.

Nike needs to learn to start supporting Kobe more. Lefail getting his own playoff shoes, team shoes, lows, highs, stays getting knocked out in the playoffs even though he dances throughout the regular season when they win meaningless games.

Lebrons supporting cast was just fine until they played a legit team... Funny how things work.

LAKERS!

 

[xsalvioutlawx]

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Originally Posted by BOTTOM74BOTTOM

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

26.8 ppg

.447 fg%

9.3 rpg

7.2 apg

2.2 spg

1.3 bpg

4.5 to



= stopped



28.6 ppg

.405 fg%

8.0 rpg

3.9 apg

2.1 spg

0.7 b+g

3.9 to



= unstoppable champion

You say that like LBJ advanced to the Finals or something..

You say that like Kobe didn't shoot 6-24 in game 7 and didn't get bailed out or something.

Of course he didn't advance to the finals when what was supposed to be his #2 man in Antawn Jamison averaged 12 points on 42% shooting, 7 rebounds and 1 assist against the Celtics, whereas Kobe had all kinds of players to bail him out throughout the finals, starting with the guy who he robbed of his finals MVP and who averaged close to 19 on 48%, 12, 4 and 3. Not to mention Derek Fisher in game 3 and Artest in game 7.

It's the same story as last year. Both seasons LeBron and Kobe met the same teams in the playoffs with LeBron owning Kobe individually in both series and putting up better and more efficient numbers while Kobe gets the win due to a better supporting cast and superior coaching.

Lebron fans full of excuses......... Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. Talking about KB's shooting percentage when he had legit injuries BEFORE the playoffs yet still had enough in the tank to win another title.

Just wait till he's healthy next season.

How about Lebrons percentage in all the losses vs the Celtics? Wasn't it something like 36% from the field? Not to mention how bad his 3 point percentage was as well.

Why am I arguing with you though? Kobe and the Lakers just won ring number 5 against a team who knocked LBJ and the "Best" team in the NBA for 2 years in a row out.

Nike needs to learn to start supporting Kobe more. Lefail getting his own playoff shoes, team shoes, lows, highs, stays getting knocked out in the playoffs even though he dances throughout the regular season when they win meaningless games.

Lebrons supporting cast was just fine until they played a legit team... Funny how things work.

LAKERS!

 

[kb8isclutch]

Originally Posted by JOE CAMEL SMOOTH

Originally Posted by cguy610

Kobe is still the best. One thing that people need to account for is that, over the course of 82 regular games, not everyone plays their hardest. Kobe may be on cruise control during the regular season and play his hardest in the playoffs.

LeBron needs to get it done in the playoffs to overtake Kobe. His team had the best regular season record 2 years in a row. I know I just said that people don't play as hard during the regular season but having the best regular season record definitely means that a team is capable of competing for a championship.

That's one reason why I never gave much value to the 81 point game by Kobe. Scoring 50-60 points in a playoff game means more to me than 81 in a meaningless regular season game in which half these guys aren't even playing hard.

Kobe stepped it up in the playoffs. Agreed.

But you think LeBron didn't??? Say what you want about him mailing in games 6 & 7 (as if Kobe didn't have SEVERAL off games in the Finals, the NBA's biggest stage where he is supposed to shine the brightest)

Dude was the best player in the regular season and the best in the playoffs. To do what he has done with the team he has is absurd. Post-Shaq Pre-Gasol Kobe didn't do half of what this guy is doing, so you can't act like blaming the supporting cast is a weak excuse.

Kobe is great, one of the best ever, but LeBron has surpassed him everywhere. LeBron is a better scorer (more points and a better shooting % = better scorer, I don't care how many shots Kobe can pull out of his *@%). A better rebounder. A better passer. A better defender. What else is there? Wins? Put him on a team like Kobe's then. He's still carried his team to the finals, to the best regular season record, etc. with almost no help. While this doesn't = four rings or even one, it counts for something.

Guys like KG and AI who are HOFers couldn;'t get past the 1st round or didn't make the playoffs at all most years on terrible teams. LeBron has almost won it all with his.

did you just compare a team with smush parker/kwame brown/luke walton in your starting 5 with brian cook/devean george/von wafer/devin green to a team that consists of mo williams/anthony parker/verajao/shaq/antawn jamison/z/delonte west.. and then say that that @#$% is virtually the same scenario?! OH HELL NO.
im going to give you guys an argument you guys often use. give 05-07 kobe that squad and theyre making the finals AT LEAST. +%*# outta here. 

 

[kb8isclutch]

Originally Posted by JOE CAMEL SMOOTH

Originally Posted by cguy610

Kobe is still the best. One thing that people need to account for is that, over the course of 82 regular games, not everyone plays their hardest. Kobe may be on cruise control during the regular season and play his hardest in the playoffs.

LeBron needs to get it done in the playoffs to overtake Kobe. His team had the best regular season record 2 years in a row. I know I just said that people don't play as hard during the regular season but having the best regular season record definitely means that a team is capable of competing for a championship.

That's one reason why I never gave much value to the 81 point game by Kobe. Scoring 50-60 points in a playoff game means more to me than 81 in a meaningless regular season game in which half these guys aren't even playing hard.

Kobe stepped it up in the playoffs. Agreed.

But you think LeBron didn't??? Say what you want about him mailing in games 6 & 7 (as if Kobe didn't have SEVERAL off games in the Finals, the NBA's biggest stage where he is supposed to shine the brightest)

Dude was the best player in the regular season and the best in the playoffs. To do what he has done with the team he has is absurd. Post-Shaq Pre-Gasol Kobe didn't do half of what this guy is doing, so you can't act like blaming the supporting cast is a weak excuse.

Kobe is great, one of the best ever, but LeBron has surpassed him everywhere. LeBron is a better scorer (more points and a better shooting % = better scorer, I don't care how many shots Kobe can pull out of his *@%). A better rebounder. A better passer. A better defender. What else is there? Wins? Put him on a team like Kobe's then. He's still carried his team to the finals, to the best regular season record, etc. with almost no help. While this doesn't = four rings or even one, it counts for something.

Guys like KG and AI who are HOFers couldn;'t get past the 1st round or didn't make the playoffs at all most years on terrible teams. LeBron has almost won it all with his.

did you just compare a team with smush parker/kwame brown/luke walton in your starting 5 with brian cook/devean george/von wafer/devin green to a team that consists of mo williams/anthony parker/verajao/shaq/antawn jamison/z/delonte west.. and then say that that @#$% is virtually the same scenario?! OH HELL NO.
im going to give you guys an argument you guys often use. give 05-07 kobe that squad and theyre making the finals AT LEAST. +%*# outta here. 

 

[dland24]

Originally Posted by JOE CAMEL SMOOTH

oh god, people still think kobe is better than lebron?

people really think their supporting casts are even close to comparable?

get a grip on reality, please.

kobe may have 10x the basketball skills lebron has (lefthanded fadeaways and other ridiculous shots in his arsenal demonstrate this) but lebron's insane combination of athleticism, size, and court vision make him a cut above anyone else in the game right now.

put him on a team with gasol, bynum, odom, artest, etc. and the celtics would've been swept. and i say this as a die-hard c's fan.

Why is it that Hall of Famers, current players/coaches/front offices, as well as past players/coaches/front offices ALL agree that Kobe is currently the best player in the league, yet us Niketalkers who share that belief get ridiculed by Niketalkers who dont? 

 

[dland24]

Originally Posted by JOE CAMEL SMOOTH

oh god, people still think kobe is better than lebron?

people really think their supporting casts are even close to comparable?

get a grip on reality, please.

kobe may have 10x the basketball skills lebron has (lefthanded fadeaways and other ridiculous shots in his arsenal demonstrate this) but lebron's insane combination of athleticism, size, and court vision make him a cut above anyone else in the game right now.

put him on a team with gasol, bynum, odom, artest, etc. and the celtics would've been swept. and i say this as a die-hard c's fan.

Why is it that Hall of Famers, current players/coaches/front offices, as well as past players/coaches/front offices ALL agree that Kobe is currently the best player in the league, yet us Niketalkers who share that belief get ridiculed by Niketalkers who dont? 

 

[dt43]

Oh and next year, 6-24 could mean something else..........

Yeah, Gilbert Arenas joining Kobe on the Lakers (see Wizards season thread)

jk

Sound post Joe Camel, but I will address some of your points:

But you think LeBron didn't??? Say what you want about him mailing ingames 6 & 7 (as if Kobe didn't have SEVERAL off games in theFinals, the NBA's biggest stage where he is supposed to shine thebrightest)

Kobe has had off games, but no one ever accused him of not trying hard enough. If anything, he was trying too hard, and he even admitted as much in his  post-Finals interview. On the other hand, nearly everyone who watched the last few games of the Celtics-Cavs series could see something was up with Lebron's effort. I will say that the major knock on Kobe's career is that, for whatever reason, he has had generally had poor shooting numbers in the Finals. On the big stage, he tends to lose trust in his teammates and instead tries to take over on his own. So I'm certainly not trying to say he is an invincible player, just that every great player has negative aspects of their game they need to overcome.

Dude was the best player in the regular season and the best in theplayoffs. To do what he has done with the team he has is absurd.Post-Shaq Pre-Gasol Kobe didn't do half of what this guy is doing, soyou can't act like blaming the supporting cast is a weak excuse.

People often say this, but the truth is that the Lebron-less Cavs were better than those Kobe-less Lakers teams. Some of the guys playing major minutes alongside Kobe weren't even legit NBA players. Let's be real, Lebron hasn't been playing with scrubs lately.. you don't win 60+ games with a team of scrubs. The Cavs were the #1 seed in '08 and lost in the ECF, and last year they added two recent All-Stars, had the league's best record again, and did even worse in the playoffs than they did the previous year. That has never happened in NBA history (best team record-wise failing to make the Finals in 2 consecutive years).. Lebron has to receive some of the blame for that. We can't just put it all on Cleveland's supporting cast and let their leader and superstar player go without criticism (of course, their coach deserves criticism as well).

Kobe is great, one of the best ever, but LeBron has surpassed himeverywhere. LeBron is a better scorer (more points and a bettershooting % = better scorer, I don't care how many shots Kobe can pullout of his *@%). A better rebounder. A better passer. A betterdefender. What else is there? Wins? Put him on a team like Kobe's then.He's still carried his team to the finals, to the best regular seasonrecord, etc. with almost no help. While this doesn't = four rings oreven one, it counts for something.

There is no denying that Lebron definitely puts up eye-popping, historical numbers. But at the same time, you have to look at the system he plays in. Watching the Cavs and Lakers operate, you can see that Lebron plays in a system designed to maximize his individual production, while Kobe plays in a system designed to maximize his team's production. I'm not saying you could plug any good wingman into the Cavs system and they would put up Lebron-esque stats, because it's "all about the system." But stats aren't everything.. they indicate a gap between Lebron and Kobe that isn't there in reality because both guys are trying to do different things for their teams. In terms of doing what their teams need them to do to win, Kobe's impact is just as great as Lebron's. And when it comes to the playoffs, Kobe has shown winning intangibles on his way to 5 rings that I haven't seen from Lebron yet.

Guys like KG and AI who are HOFers couldn;'t get past the 1st round ordidn't make the playoffs at all most years on terrible teams. LeBronhas almost won it all with his.

Lebron has never come close to winning anything.. if he did, he wouldn't be getting all this criticism. They had a cakewalk to the Finals in '07, and were swept in a series in which Lebron played horribly.

Is Lebron the best regular season player in the league? Sure. But playoff performance is part of the game as well, and I cannot call him the best in the league until he can consistently get it together in the playoffs. I'm not ruling out the possibility that Lebron could be better than Kobe when it's all said and done. I'll be fully willing and ready to admit it. But he has to show us that first, that's all.

 

[dt43]

Oh and next year, 6-24 could mean something else..........

Yeah, Gilbert Arenas joining Kobe on the Lakers (see Wizards season thread)

jk

Sound post Joe Camel, but I will address some of your points:

But you think LeBron didn't??? Say what you want about him mailing ingames 6 & 7 (as if Kobe didn't have SEVERAL off games in theFinals, the NBA's biggest stage where he is supposed to shine thebrightest)

Kobe has had off games, but no one ever accused him of not trying hard enough. If anything, he was trying too hard, and he even admitted as much in his  post-Finals interview. On the other hand, nearly everyone who watched the last few games of the Celtics-Cavs series could see something was up with Lebron's effort. I will say that the major knock on Kobe's career is that, for whatever reason, he has had generally had poor shooting numbers in the Finals. On the big stage, he tends to lose trust in his teammates and instead tries to take over on his own. So I'm certainly not trying to say he is an invincible player, just that every great player has negative aspects of their game they need to overcome.

Dude was the best player in the regular season and the best in theplayoffs. To do what he has done with the team he has is absurd.Post-Shaq Pre-Gasol Kobe didn't do half of what this guy is doing, soyou can't act like blaming the supporting cast is a weak excuse.

People often say this, but the truth is that the Lebron-less Cavs were better than those Kobe-less Lakers teams. Some of the guys playing major minutes alongside Kobe weren't even legit NBA players. Let's be real, Lebron hasn't been playing with scrubs lately.. you don't win 60+ games with a team of scrubs. The Cavs were the #1 seed in '08 and lost in the ECF, and last year they added two recent All-Stars, had the league's best record again, and did even worse in the playoffs than they did the previous year. That has never happened in NBA history (best team record-wise failing to make the Finals in 2 consecutive years).. Lebron has to receive some of the blame for that. We can't just put it all on Cleveland's supporting cast and let their leader and superstar player go without criticism (of course, their coach deserves criticism as well).

Kobe is great, one of the best ever, but LeBron has surpassed himeverywhere. LeBron is a better scorer (more points and a bettershooting % = better scorer, I don't care how many shots Kobe can pullout of his *@%). A better rebounder. A better passer. A betterdefender. What else is there? Wins? Put him on a team like Kobe's then.He's still carried his team to the finals, to the best regular seasonrecord, etc. with almost no help. While this doesn't = four rings oreven one, it counts for something.

There is no denying that Lebron definitely puts up eye-popping, historical numbers. But at the same time, you have to look at the system he plays in. Watching the Cavs and Lakers operate, you can see that Lebron plays in a system designed to maximize his individual production, while Kobe plays in a system designed to maximize his team's production. I'm not saying you could plug any good wingman into the Cavs system and they would put up Lebron-esque stats, because it's "all about the system." But stats aren't everything.. they indicate a gap between Lebron and Kobe that isn't there in reality because both guys are trying to do different things for their teams. In terms of doing what their teams need them to do to win, Kobe's impact is just as great as Lebron's. And when it comes to the playoffs, Kobe has shown winning intangibles on his way to 5 rings that I haven't seen from Lebron yet.

Guys like KG and AI who are HOFers couldn;'t get past the 1st round ordidn't make the playoffs at all most years on terrible teams. LeBronhas almost won it all with his.

Lebron has never come close to winning anything.. if he did, he wouldn't be getting all this criticism. They had a cakewalk to the Finals in '07, and were swept in a series in which Lebron played horribly.

Is Lebron the best regular season player in the league? Sure. But playoff performance is part of the game as well, and I cannot call him the best in the league until he can consistently get it together in the playoffs. I'm not ruling out the possibility that Lebron could be better than Kobe when it's all said and done. I'll be fully willing and ready to admit it. But he has to show us that first, that's all.

 

[marionthebarberian]

Originally Posted by bijald0331

^He has lived up to the hype unlike any other athlete in sports history, IMO.

 

[marionthebarberian]

Originally Posted by bijald0331

^He has lived up to the hype unlike any other athlete in sports history, IMO.

 

[yeeupp]

"IF" arguments go nowhere.

 

[yeeupp]

"IF" arguments go nowhere.

 

[joe camel smooth]

Originally Posted by dland24

Originally Posted by JOE CAMEL SMOOTH

oh god, people still think kobe is better than lebron?

people really think their supporting casts are even close to comparable?

get a grip on reality, please.

kobe may have 10x the basketball skills lebron has (lefthanded fadeaways and other ridiculous shots in his arsenal demonstrate this) but lebron's insane combination of athleticism, size, and court vision make him a cut above anyone else in the game right now.

put him on a team with gasol, bynum, odom, artest, etc. and the celtics would've been swept. and i say this as a die-hard c's fan.

Why is it that Hall of Famers, current players/coaches/front offices, as well as past players/coaches/front offices ALL agree that Kobe is currently the best player in the league, yet us Niketalkers who share that belief get ridiculed by Niketalkers who dont? 

because he's a "winner." he's also been around the league for a lot longer than lebron and has thus accomplished more thus far. the "right answer" is always the guy with the rings. 

give all those front office guys a choice between kobe or lebron to build a team around (ignore age even, pretend we're talking about kobe at lebron's age) and see what kinda answers you get then. 

Originally Posted by KB8isCLUTCH

Originally Posted by JOE CAMEL SMOOTH

Originally Posted by cguy610

Kobeis still the best. One thing that people need to account for is that,over the course of 82 regular games, not everyone plays their hardest.Kobe may be on cruise control during the regular season and play hishardest in the playoffs.

LeBron needs to get it done in the playoffs to overtake Kobe. His teamhad the best regular season record 2 years in a row. I know I just saidthat people don't play as hard during the regular season but having thebest regular season record definitely means that a team is capable ofcompeting for a championship.

That's one reason why I never gave much value to the 81 point game byKobe. Scoring 50-60 points in a playoff game means more to me than 81in a meaningless regular season game in which half these guys aren'teven playing hard.

Kobe stepped it up in the playoffs. Agreed.

Butyou think LeBron didn't??? Say what you want about him mailing in games6 & 7 (as if Kobe didn't have SEVERAL off games in the Finals, theNBA's biggest stage where he is supposed to shine the brightest)

Dudewas the best player in the regular season and the best in the playoffs.To do what he has done with the team he has is absurd. Post-ShaqPre-Gasol Kobe didn't do half of what this guy is doing, so you can'tact like blaming the supporting cast is a weak excuse.

Kobeis great, one of the best ever, but LeBron has surpassed himeverywhere. LeBron is a better scorer (more points and a bettershooting % = better scorer, I don't care how many shots Kobe can pullout of his *@%). A better rebounder. A better passer. A betterdefender. What else is there? Wins? Put him on a team like Kobe's then.He's still carried his team to the finals, to the best regular seasonrecord, etc. with almost no help. While this doesn't = four rings oreven one, it counts for something.

Guys like KG and AI who areHOFers couldn;'t get past the 1st round or didn't make the playoffs atall most years on terrible teams. LeBron has almost won it all with his.

didyou just compare a team with smush parker/kwame brown/luke walton inyour starting 5 with brian cook/devean george/von wafer/devin green toa team that consists of mo williams/anthony parker/verajao/shaq/antawnjamison/z/delonte west.. and then say that that @#$% is virtually thesame scenario?! OH HELL NO.
im going to give youguys an argument you guys often use. give 05-07 kobe that squad andtheyre making the finals AT LEAST. +%*# outta here. 

what?? look at, say 2006-2007. it's debatable who had the worse team. but the cavs went 50-32 and made it to the finals, while the lakers went 40-42 and lost in the 1st round. and we're talking a kobe in his peak and lebron well before his. now the western conference was a helluva lot deeper than the east before 2008 so i will be generous and call it a draw........even then, lebron has since improved by leaps and bounds, while kobe has at the very best maintained his current level of skill.

i just don't see it.

if lebron gets the opportunity to play on a good team like the ones kobe has and does not win a championship, then the "winner" argument becomes relevant. until then.......no.

 

[joe camel smooth]

Originally Posted by dland24

Originally Posted by JOE CAMEL SMOOTH

oh god, people still think kobe is better than lebron?

people really think their supporting casts are even close to comparable?

get a grip on reality, please.

kobe may have 10x the basketball skills lebron has (lefthanded fadeaways and other ridiculous shots in his arsenal demonstrate this) but lebron's insane combination of athleticism, size, and court vision make him a cut above anyone else in the game right now.

put him on a team with gasol, bynum, odom, artest, etc. and the celtics would've been swept. and i say this as a die-hard c's fan.

Why is it that Hall of Famers, current players/coaches/front offices, as well as past players/coaches/front offices ALL agree that Kobe is currently the best player in the league, yet us Niketalkers who share that belief get ridiculed by Niketalkers who dont? 

because he's a "winner." he's also been around the league for a lot longer than lebron and has thus accomplished more thus far. the "right answer" is always the guy with the rings. 

give all those front office guys a choice between kobe or lebron to build a team around (ignore age even, pretend we're talking about kobe at lebron's age) and see what kinda answers you get then. 

Originally Posted by KB8isCLUTCH

Originally Posted by JOE CAMEL SMOOTH

Originally Posted by cguy610

Kobeis still the best. One thing that people need to account for is that,over the course of 82 regular games, not everyone plays their hardest.Kobe may be on cruise control during the regular season and play hishardest in the playoffs.

LeBron needs to get it done in the playoffs to overtake Kobe. His teamhad the best regular season record 2 years in a row. I know I just saidthat people don't play as hard during the regular season but having thebest regular season record definitely means that a team is capable ofcompeting for a championship.

That's one reason why I never gave much value to the 81 point game byKobe. Scoring 50-60 points in a playoff game means more to me than 81in a meaningless regular season game in which half these guys aren'teven playing hard.

Kobe stepped it up in the playoffs. Agreed.

Butyou think LeBron didn't??? Say what you want about him mailing in games6 & 7 (as if Kobe didn't have SEVERAL off games in the Finals, theNBA's biggest stage where he is supposed to shine the brightest)

Dudewas the best player in the regular season and the best in the playoffs.To do what he has done with the team he has is absurd. Post-ShaqPre-Gasol Kobe didn't do half of what this guy is doing, so you can'tact like blaming the supporting cast is a weak excuse.

Kobeis great, one of the best ever, but LeBron has surpassed himeverywhere. LeBron is a better scorer (more points and a bettershooting % = better scorer, I don't care how many shots Kobe can pullout of his *@%). A better rebounder. A better passer. A betterdefender. What else is there? Wins? Put him on a team like Kobe's then.He's still carried his team to the finals, to the best regular seasonrecord, etc. with almost no help. While this doesn't = four rings oreven one, it counts for something.

Guys like KG and AI who areHOFers couldn;'t get past the 1st round or didn't make the playoffs atall most years on terrible teams. LeBron has almost won it all with his.

didyou just compare a team with smush parker/kwame brown/luke walton inyour starting 5 with brian cook/devean george/von wafer/devin green toa team that consists of mo williams/anthony parker/verajao/shaq/antawnjamison/z/delonte west.. and then say that that @#$% is virtually thesame scenario?! OH HELL NO.
im going to give youguys an argument you guys often use. give 05-07 kobe that squad andtheyre making the finals AT LEAST. +%*# outta here. 

what?? look at, say 2006-2007. it's debatable who had the worse team. but the cavs went 50-32 and made it to the finals, while the lakers went 40-42 and lost in the 1st round. and we're talking a kobe in his peak and lebron well before his. now the western conference was a helluva lot deeper than the east before 2008 so i will be generous and call it a draw........even then, lebron has since improved by leaps and bounds, while kobe has at the very best maintained his current level of skill.

i just don't see it.

if lebron gets the opportunity to play on a good team like the ones kobe has and does not win a championship, then the "winner" argument becomes relevant. until then.......no.

 

[xsalvioutlawx]

Originally Posted by JOE CAMEL SMOOTH

Originally Posted by dland24

Originally Posted by JOE CAMEL SMOOTH

oh god, people still think kobe is better than lebron?

people really think their supporting casts are even close to comparable?

get a grip on reality, please.

kobe may have 10x the basketball skills lebron has (lefthanded fadeaways and other ridiculous shots in his arsenal demonstrate this) but lebron's insane combination of athleticism, size, and court vision make him a cut above anyone else in the game right now.

put him on a team with gasol, bynum, odom, artest, etc. and the celtics would've been swept. and i say this as a die-hard c's fan.

Why is it that Hall of Famers, current players/coaches/front offices, as well as past players/coaches/front offices ALL agree that Kobe is currently the best player in the league, yet us Niketalkers who share that belief get ridiculed by Niketalkers who dont? 

because he's a "winner." he's also been around the league for a lot longer than lebron and has thus accomplished more thus far. the "right answer" is always the guy with the rings. 

give all those front office guys a choice between kobe or lebron to build a team around (ignore age even, pretend we're talking about kobe at lebron's age) and see what kinda answers you get then. 

Originally Posted by KB8isCLUTCH

Originally Posted by JOE CAMEL SMOOTH

Originally Posted by cguy610

Kobe is still the best. One thing that people need to account for is that, over the course of 82 regular games, not everyone plays their hardest. Kobe may be on cruise control during the regular season and play his hardest in the playoffs.

LeBron needs to get it done in the playoffs to overtake Kobe. His team had the best regular season record 2 years in a row. I know I just said that people don't play as hard during the regular season but having the best regular season record definitely means that a team is capable of competing for a championship.

That's one reason why I never gave much value to the 81 point game by Kobe. Scoring 50-60 points in a playoff game means more to me than 81 in a meaningless regular season game in which half these guys aren't even playing hard.

Kobe stepped it up in the playoffs. Agreed.

But you think LeBron didn't??? Say what you want about him mailing in games 6 & 7 (as if Kobe didn't have SEVERAL off games in the Finals, the NBA's biggest stage where he is supposed to shine the brightest)

Dude was the best player in the regular season and the best in the playoffs. To do what he has done with the team he has is absurd. Post-Shaq Pre-Gasol Kobe didn't do half of what this guy is doing, so you can't act like blaming the supporting cast is a weak excuse.

Kobe is great, one of the best ever, but LeBron has surpassed him everywhere. LeBron is a better scorer (more points and a better shooting % = better scorer, I don't care how many shots Kobe can pull out of his *@%). A better rebounder. A better passer. A better defender. What else is there? Wins? Put him on a team like Kobe's then. He's still carried his team to the finals, to the best regular season record, etc. with almost no help. While this doesn't = four rings or even one, it counts for something.

Guys like KG and AI who are HOFers couldn;'t get past the 1st round or didn't make the playoffs at all most years on terrible teams. LeBron has almost won it all with his.

did you just compare a team with smush parker/kwame brown/luke walton in your starting 5 with brian cook/devean george/von wafer/devin green to a team that consists of mo williams/anthony parker/verajao/shaq/antawn jamison/z/delonte west.. and then say that that @#$% is virtually the same scenario?! OH HELL NO.
im going to give you guys an argument you guys often use. give 05-07 kobe that squad and theyre making the finals AT LEAST. +%*# outta here. 

what?? look at, say 2006-2007. it's debatable who had the worse team. but the cavs went 50-32 and made it to the finals, while the lakers went 40-42 and lost in the 1st round. and we're talking a kobe in his peak and lebron well before his. now the western conference was a helluva lot deeper than the east before 2008 so i will be generous and call it a draw........even then, lebron has since improved by leaps and bounds, while kobe has at the very best maintained his current level of skill.

i just don't see it.

if lebron gets the opportunity to play on a good team like the ones kobe has and does not win a championship, then the "winner" argument becomes relevant. until then.......no.

Lebron doesn't care about playing for a good team or else he wouldn't be considering leaving the team he's already on. All he cares about is him, lebron james, and the chosen one. Nuff said.

 

[xsalvioutlawx]

Originally Posted by JOE CAMEL SMOOTH

Originally Posted by dland24

Originally Posted by JOE CAMEL SMOOTH

oh god, people still think kobe is better than lebron?

people really think their supporting casts are even close to comparable?

get a grip on reality, please.

kobe may have 10x the basketball skills lebron has (lefthanded fadeaways and other ridiculous shots in his arsenal demonstrate this) but lebron's insane combination of athleticism, size, and court vision make him a cut above anyone else in the game right now.

put him on a team with gasol, bynum, odom, artest, etc. and the celtics would've been swept. and i say this as a die-hard c's fan.

Why is it that Hall of Famers, current players/coaches/front offices, as well as past players/coaches/front offices ALL agree that Kobe is currently the best player in the league, yet us Niketalkers who share that belief get ridiculed by Niketalkers who dont? 

because he's a "winner." he's also been around the league for a lot longer than lebron and has thus accomplished more thus far. the "right answer" is always the guy with the rings. 

give all those front office guys a choice between kobe or lebron to build a team around (ignore age even, pretend we're talking about kobe at lebron's age) and see what kinda answers you get then. 

Originally Posted by KB8isCLUTCH

Originally Posted by JOE CAMEL SMOOTH

Originally Posted by cguy610

Kobe is still the best. One thing that people need to account for is that, over the course of 82 regular games, not everyone plays their hardest. Kobe may be on cruise control during the regular season and play his hardest in the playoffs.

LeBron needs to get it done in the playoffs to overtake Kobe. His team had the best regular season record 2 years in a row. I know I just said that people don't play as hard during the regular season but having the best regular season record definitely means that a team is capable of competing for a championship.

That's one reason why I never gave much value to the 81 point game by Kobe. Scoring 50-60 points in a playoff game means more to me than 81 in a meaningless regular season game in which half these guys aren't even playing hard.

Kobe stepped it up in the playoffs. Agreed.

But you think LeBron didn't??? Say what you want about him mailing in games 6 & 7 (as if Kobe didn't have SEVERAL off games in the Finals, the NBA's biggest stage where he is supposed to shine the brightest)

Dude was the best player in the regular season and the best in the playoffs. To do what he has done with the team he has is absurd. Post-Shaq Pre-Gasol Kobe didn't do half of what this guy is doing, so you can't act like blaming the supporting cast is a weak excuse.

Kobe is great, one of the best ever, but LeBron has surpassed him everywhere. LeBron is a better scorer (more points and a better shooting % = better scorer, I don't care how many shots Kobe can pull out of his *@%). A better rebounder. A better passer. A better defender. What else is there? Wins? Put him on a team like Kobe's then. He's still carried his team to the finals, to the best regular season record, etc. with almost no help. While this doesn't = four rings or even one, it counts for something.

Guys like KG and AI who are HOFers couldn;'t get past the 1st round or didn't make the playoffs at all most years on terrible teams. LeBron has almost won it all with his.

did you just compare a team with smush parker/kwame brown/luke walton in your starting 5 with brian cook/devean george/von wafer/devin green to a team that consists of mo williams/anthony parker/verajao/shaq/antawn jamison/z/delonte west.. and then say that that @#$% is virtually the same scenario?! OH HELL NO.
im going to give you guys an argument you guys often use. give 05-07 kobe that squad and theyre making the finals AT LEAST. +%*# outta here. 

what?? look at, say 2006-2007. it's debatable who had the worse team. but the cavs went 50-32 and made it to the finals, while the lakers went 40-42 and lost in the 1st round. and we're talking a kobe in his peak and lebron well before his. now the western conference was a helluva lot deeper than the east before 2008 so i will be generous and call it a draw........even then, lebron has since improved by leaps and bounds, while kobe has at the very best maintained his current level of skill.

i just don't see it.

if lebron gets the opportunity to play on a good team like the ones kobe has and does not win a championship, then the "winner" argument becomes relevant. until then.......no.

Lebron doesn't care about playing for a good team or else he wouldn't be considering leaving the team he's already on. All he cares about is him, lebron james, and the chosen one. Nuff said.

 

[essential1]

In 2006-2007 at 50-32.. Lebron's team was the #2 seed.. It's not like they were 7th seeded Lakers who had the same record as the 8th seed.


That 50-32 just shows how easy it was to get to the Finals. When they got killed by 3rd seeded Spurs

 

[essential1]

In 2006-2007 at 50-32.. Lebron's team was the #2 seed.. It's not like they were 7th seeded Lakers who had the same record as the 8th seed.


That 50-32 just shows how easy it was to get to the Finals. When they got killed by 3rd seeded Spurs

 

[essential1]

Compare

PG Gibson
SG Hughes
SF James
PF Gooden
C Z



PG Smush
SG Kobe
SF Radmonavich
PF Odom
C Kwame



All that and 10 extra wins.. When they were better at 4 of 5 positions and had a 10x better bench.. Don't compare these teams.. AND definitely DON'T compare 08-09 or 09-10 Cavs to these Lakers.

 

[essential1]

Compare

PG Gibson
SG Hughes
SF James
PF Gooden
C Z



PG Smush
SG Kobe
SF Radmonavich
PF Odom
C Kwame



All that and 10 extra wins.. When they were better at 4 of 5 positions and had a 10x better bench.. Don't compare these teams.. AND definitely DON'T compare 08-09 or 09-10 Cavs to these Lakers.